Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond

[awy]

it’s all about the value and scarcity of the players involved.

first options/primary initiators are rare and extremely valuable, but the replacement value bar is also extremely high. if a player isnt that good at this, then he shouldn’t be playing the role and you should be rebuilding and looking for someone who is.

on the other side, defense and shooting pieces who can be rotation guys in playoffs is also valuable if on good cost controlled deals.

value deal role players and high efficiency/undeniable stars are two types of guys you want. the stuck in the middle types are not as valuable because they constrain your ceiling and limit options. they can still be on the team but purely as potential trade pieces for more chances at the big star.

so obviously you should trade “good” on ball prospects who do not have realistic superstar upside for the actual superstars. it is pretty obvious that knicks should be trading for AD since this team’s young pieces top out at a 40 win team.

can try to keep mitch but doubt it is possible.

[robillionaire]

The good thing is that the three of them on the same team would be so good that even if one of them goes down and misses a few games here and there or even just wants to rest for load management we’d still be more than capable of winning any game with any two of the three

Also Davis has never played with another great player in his career. Opposing defenses have swarmed him. He will he better version of himself than we’ve ever seen before

[Jalen Bluntson]

You're assuming I want to contend immediately. Just because I have a stack of bills in my wallet doesn't mean I'm going to rush out and spend it all.

The underlying assumption in this thread is THIS IS IT, our shot at glory, take it or leave it. I'm not buying that line. I'm willing to see if Mitch and RJ? pan out alongside a FA signing or two, but gutting the team to get AD is just the same old Knicks to me and I'm sick of it.

So...keep the kids...add FAs is cool with you?. If they keep the kids and MAX KD/Kyrie...are you cool with that?

I hear you about gutting the team. I want Mitch to retire here and have his number in the rafter!!! I wouldn't trip on a smaller deal for more talent though. I'm not crazy about Kyrie either way but...I wouldn't be mad if we signed him with KD. I also don't care for KD being 31 but...I'm not afraid that he'll fall off a cliff.

I would also be down with not signing anyone as well. I mean...I want Klay and Kawhi but...that's not happening.

I just hope Perry doesn't mess this up. I want to witness a title some day. The 20 year spiral in the other direction has been brutal.

NO. I've been outspoken today that I don't want Kyrie near this team.

I'm fine with signing KD.

I'm not fine with trading away picks and Mitch for KD.

I'm down with adding a max cat like KD and continuing to build, because if he has 4-5 years in the tank that is more than enough time to be in contention mid-way through his contract with a mix of signings, drafted players and good pick-ups (which this club is perfectly capable of executing now).

And, yes, I agree, we could just hold off one more season and keep our powder dry. I've waited this long, so I'm not on the spend or die bandwagon.

I'm on the same page. I'm not as adamant about no Kyrie but...I wouldn't mind a different player or multiple players for the money.

I am not in a rush either. I could roll with a slower process. I enjoyed watching the kids develop. I would like to have a stronger foundation to add to through FA.

[KnixinSix]

This is Anthony Davis complete injury chart. Notice one outlier.....most of these games he returned to action, and you will notice that by looking at the dates.

Through 2017, I provided a more complete list before your post.

If you think it's nothing then so be it. I think this fan base has for the most part set its sights on buying a super team and I think you'll end up regretting it dearly.

It isn't the first time and apparently it won't be the last.

If you really think these guys are low risk injury wise as a set of three players in a single package, yes I'm mystified at such faith in what to my eyes seems like a completely dodgy scenario. If they do it, then I hope you're right and I'm wrong

Clyde, the list wasn't even accurate. You got missed games on there that aren't injury related. Quite a few of those injuries he actually returned back to the game or a worst played the very next one.

Some of those games were rest days. You really gonna blow a vessel when you see players on load management.

The fact of the matter is that injuries are part of the game. At one point in time Steph Curry was injury prone by fan perspective.

Then he goes out and have consecutive 70+ game in seasons of play...…..just like Davis has done within the last couple years.


By your standard Frank and Dennis should be injury prone.

The funniest part of if we somehow pull it off and land thr big 3 of AD/KD and one of Kyrie, Kemba or Jrue there will be people complaining here despite it being perhaps the greatest trio to ever don Knick uniforms in New York history.

Call me crazy but Ill be celebrating cuz for the first time since the LJ Spree and H2O days we have a chance of competing for a championship.

[DowNY]

Through 2017, I provided a more complete list before your post.

If you think it's nothing then so be it. I think this fan base has for the most part set its sights on buying a super team and I think you'll end up regretting it dearly.

It isn't the first time and apparently it won't be the last.

If you really think these guys are low risk injury wise as a set of three players in a single package, yes I'm mystified at such faith in what to my eyes seems like a completely dodgy scenario. If they do it, then I hope you're right and I'm wrong

Clyde, the list wasn't even accurate. You got missed games on there that aren't injury related. Quite a few of those injuries he actually returned back to the game or a worst played the very next one.

Some of those games were rest days. You really gonna blow a vessel when you see players on load management.

The fact of the matter is that injuries are part of the game. At one point in time Steph Curry was injury prone by fan perspective.

Then he goes out and have consecutive 70+ game in seasons of play...…..just like Davis has done within the last couple years.


By your standard Frank and Dennis should be injury prone.

The funniest part of if we somehow pull it off and land thr big 3 of AD/KD and one of Kyrie, Kemba or Jrue there will be people complaining here despite it being perhaps the greatest trio to ever don Knick uniforms in New York history.

Call me crazy but Ill be celebrating cuz for the first time since the LJ Spree and H2O days we have a chance of competing for a championship.

Haven’t won in over 50+ years but Knick fans stay entitled. Want to win the Warriors way. Build like the Thunder with KD, Westbrook & Harden. Like that doesn’t require more luck than free agency signings working out.

[Zenzibar]

Every championship team since the early 80s with the exception of the 2004 Pistons had a homegrown player as their foundationial piece. Building a team around a bunch of mercenaries for me is like building on quicksand. If you want to go against 40 years of evidence, more power to you.

I don't see AD as a guy who can lead a team to a championship anyway, for whatever it's worth. He's a fringe top 10 player to me, in the 8 to 12 range. And again, I'm not against signing him as a free agent, but I think trading for him would be a huge mistake that will set back this franchise another 5 to 10 years.

This means nothing. We are in a new era when it comes to the league. The way players are demanding trades and forming alliances is a new trend for the league. Players aren't willing to waste their careers waiting for owners and front offices to build teams around them and are forming alliances on their own. That's not something the Knicks are looking to exploit that's something all teams are looking to exploit.

None if this homegrown stuff will matter when the team is playing good, nobody will care. Just like the Raptors dont care whether or not Kawhi is homegrown, the things he's doing for their franchise is far greater than any homegrown player has ever done for them. Ask them if they would give up everybody else on their roster just to keep Kawhi there. I can promise you nobody will even remember the names of our young players when we are balling in the playoffs.

Yet the Raptors are down 2-0 in the ECF and Kawhi could bounce next month.

I believe there's an intangible value in having homegrown players. They go the extra mile for their team. They identify with their team. There is pride. Golden State has the splash brothers and Draymond. Cleveland had Kyrie and LeBron. The Spurs had Duncan, Manu and Tony. The Heat had Wade. The Mavs had Dirk. The Lakers had Kobe. The Celtics had Pierce. The Bulls had MJ and Scottie. The Rockets had Hakeem. The Pistons had Isiah. The Lakers had Magic. The Celtics had Bird. Players who were all drafted by their team. This is not a coincidence, this is a pattern. Look at the up-and-coming teams in each conference. Denver has Jokic and Milwaukee has Giannis.

It's not that I don't want to see my team playing good, it's that the best way to build a legitimately great team is through the draft. You can't escape it.

If KP would have stayed we'd be saying that we had that home grown talent you speak of right now. KP fitted between Mitch and KD would have been formidable and elite. KP...the dumb ass.

However, unless Mitch takes a leap and develops a 3 pt shot and we can move him to the 4, we have a huge gap there.

TBH, unless Mitch, Frank and Knox grow up fast, there is no home grown all-star caliber player on the team. How long and how many more poor seasons until the team "lucks out"?

But you're right in that even the most recent Yankees' dynasty had 5 home grown all-star talents.

So if we decide to say no to AD, I would lock Mitch in a gym, build him a loft in it, and won't let him out until he can handle like Giannis or shoot the 3 like AD himself.

[KnixinSix]

:evil:

So...keep the kids...add FAs is cool with you?. If they keep the kids and MAX KD/Kyrie...are you cool with that?

I hear you about gutting the team. I want Mitch to retire here and have his number in the rafter!!! I wouldn't trip on a smaller deal for more talent though. I'm not crazy about Kyrie either way but...I wouldn't be mad if we signed him with KD. I also don't care for KD being 31 but...I'm not afraid that he'll fall off a cliff.

I would also be down with not signing anyone as well. I mean...I want Klay and Kawhi but...that's not happening.

I just hope Perry doesn't mess this up. I want to witness a title some day. The 20 year spiral in the other direction has been brutal.

NO. I've been outspoken today that I don't want Kyrie near this team.

I'm fine with signing KD.

I'm not fine with trading away picks and Mitch for KD.

I'm down with adding a max cat like KD and continuing to build, because if he has 4-5 years in the tank that is more than enough time to be in contention mid-way through his contract with a mix of signings, drafted players and good pick-ups (which this club is perfectly capable of executing now).

And, yes, I agree, we could just hold off one more season and keep our powder dry. I've waited this long, so I'm not on the spend or die bandwagon.

I'm on the same page. I'm not as adamant about no Kyrie but...I wouldn't mind a different player or multiple players for the money.

I am not in a rush either. I could roll with a slower process. I enjoyed watching the kids develop. I would like to have a stronger foundation to add to through FA.

If kyrie is such a bad guy/player why does Ainge who has seen him up close the last 2 years and has a pretty good eye for team building STILL want to keep him on the team?

[KnixinSix]

This means nothing. We are in a new era when it comes to the league. The way players are demanding trades and forming alliances is a new trend for the league. Players aren't willing to waste their careers waiting for owners and front offices to build teams around them and are forming alliances on their own. That's not something the Knicks are looking to exploit that's something all teams are looking to exploit.

None if this homegrown stuff will matter when the team is playing good, nobody will care. Just like the Raptors dont care whether or not Kawhi is homegrown, the things he's doing for their franchise is far greater than any homegrown player has ever done for them. Ask them if they would give up everybody else on their roster just to keep Kawhi there. I can promise you nobody will even remember the names of our young players when we are balling in the playoffs.

Yet the Raptors are down 2-0 in the ECF and Kawhi could bounce next month.

I believe there's an intangible value in having homegrown players. They go the extra mile for their team. They identify with their team. There is pride. Golden State has the splash brothers and Draymond. Cleveland had Kyrie and LeBron. The Spurs had Duncan, Manu and Tony. The Heat had Wade. The Mavs had Dirk. The Lakers had Kobe. The Celtics had Pierce. The Bulls had MJ and Scottie. The Rockets had Hakeem. The Pistons had Isiah. The Lakers had Magic. The Celtics had Bird. Players who were all drafted by their team. This is not a coincidence, this is a pattern. Look at the up-and-coming teams in each conference. Denver has Jokic and Milwaukee has Giannis.

It's not that I don't want to see my team playing good, it's that the best way to build a legitimately great team is through the draft. You can't escape it.

If KP would have stayed we'd be saying that we had that home grown talent you speak of right now. KP fitted between Mitch and KD would have been formidable and elite. KP...the dumb ass.

However, unless Mitch takes a leap and develops a 3 pt shot and we can move him to the 4, we have a huge gap there.

TBH, unless Mitch, Frank and Knox grow up fast, there is no home grown all-star caliber player on the team. How long and how many more poor seasons until the team "lucks out"?

But you're right in that even the most recent Yankees' dynasty had 5 home grown all-star talent, however rare.

Tell you what, if we say no to AD, I would lock Mitch in a gym, build him a loft in it, and won't let him out until he can handle like Giannis or shoot the 3 like AD himself.

You know if ANY of these guys ceilings legitimately approached that of the big 3 I could see a little more of a worthy debate. But none of Frank DSJ or Knox carry that. Knox could turn out as a pretty good scorer but hes a sieve on D his upside to me is Keith Van Horn. Nice peice on the right team but not something that stops me from getting a top 5 player in AD. Now Mitch we may not have to part with but if we do he obviously shows elite defensive upside but the offensive game is extremely raw. This isn't to say it wont get better but right now he eventual upside seems to be a more athletic DeAndre Jordan. He still makes a tons of mistakes on the court. I wouldnt want to lose him but how long to get there with him? Now Barrett could be the highest upside of all of them. But again you arent brining in a 30 year old Durant to continue 'incremental ' growth of your team.

When he comes in its becomes about going all out for a championship.

Why is Ainge ready to give up possibly Tatum and/or Brown as well as a bunch more for AD if Kyrie stays? Because he knows what it takes to build a championship contender and that's the top star power in the league.

[Jalen Bluntson]

:evil:

NO. I've been outspoken today that I don't want Kyrie near this team.

I'm fine with signing KD.

I'm not fine with trading away picks and Mitch for KD.

I'm down with adding a max cat like KD and continuing to build, because if he has 4-5 years in the tank that is more than enough time to be in contention mid-way through his contract with a mix of signings, drafted players and good pick-ups (which this club is perfectly capable of executing now).

And, yes, I agree, we could just hold off one more season and keep our powder dry. I've waited this long, so I'm not on the spend or die bandwagon.

I'm on the same page. I'm not as adamant about no Kyrie but...I wouldn't mind a different player or multiple players for the money.

I am not in a rush either. I could roll with a slower process. I enjoyed watching the kids develop. I would like to have a stronger foundation to add to through FA.

If kyrie is such a bad guy/player why does Ainge who has seen him up close the last 2 years and has a pretty good eye for team building STILL want to keep him on the team?

Who said Kyrie was bad? I don't like the injury risk. I wouldn't be angry if he were paired with KD. I'm not all in on 2 max players though. I could get behind letting them both go elsewhere and stay young/sign prove it deals to players like Hezonja/Vonleh another year or 2. Keep developing our youth. Keep the cap flexibilty. Either way...the team is currently in a good position going forward. I am just waiting to see how it all plays out.

[malik959]

Watch on YouTube

[N Y K]

Watch on YouTube

I pressed play, clicked a random spot later in the video. That spot was 44:00. I don't need to see anymore.

[Marty McFly]

I am curious. If we had won the 2pick, Ja would won the poll? Would be more chalenge to fit him along Dennis and Max PG and NO could value RJ more.

Maybe it was better picked the 3pick instead the 2pick. Same player for less salary.

I think it is almost indiferent. Ja looks a bit better. But RJ has better fit in the team.

I’d take RJ over him still. If RJ gets drafted second I’d rather have garland.

[robillionaire]

I am curious. If we had won the 2pick, Ja would won the poll? Would be more chalenge to fit him along Dennis and Max PG and NO could value RJ more.

Maybe it was better picked the 3pick instead the 2pick. Same player for less salary.

I think it is almost indiferent. Ja looks a bit better. But RJ has better fit in the team.

I’d take RJ over him still. If RJ gets drafted second I’d rather have garland.

I agree, I would want RJ even at 2nd. But I would still take Ja over Garland at 3rd.

[br7knicks]

KD isn't coming by himself. As a matter of fact i feel today that we're gonna strike out in free agency more then i've felt this way since all the KD to New York talk started. I hate feeling this way but i think players like Kyrie and J.Butler are looking at Brooklyn more then they're looking at us and Kawhi is going out west to most likely the Clippers and Jerry West will also pull off the AD trade and Middleton stays with the Bucks and Klay of course stays with GSW and i'm not signing Kemba without getting K.Durant and although i'm a big fan of his i'm not signing T.Harris to a max deal. As i've been saying all along, if we don't get one of KD, AD or Kawhi then i'm not signing any other max or near max players and just keeping on building which sucks because we're far far away from building anything great through the draft because of our misses with our first round picks the last couple of years with Knox and Frank. I think Knox could become a good offensive player but he showed no effort on the defensive end and to me that's a miss for a lottery pick. Should of drafted SGA.

I'm going to start taking note of users who actually get it.

You can also tell who's been a Knicks fan longer, based on whether or not they think KD and Kyrie are coming to NY.

Those of us long time fans know they're not coming. And that's fine.

And those of us who want to watch the Knicks win know that Knox won't help this team overall

Dude, if the Knicks grab Anthony Davis in a trade... the chances of getting Durant skyrockets.

all you have to tell Kevin Durant is the following :

"We haven't won a ring in 46 years. You could help a losing franchise and fix your rep and legacy, just like Lebron did. And you'd be teaming up with Anthony Davis to do it. You two could be the next great championship duo, like Kobe and Shaq."

I actually agree with you. Id much rather Davis come than Irving. Davis would actually help the Knicks, unlike Irving.

But it doesn't make sense to get Davis for one year, especially to trade a bunch of young pieces just to make it happen

[HEZI]

Clyde, the list wasn't even accurate. You got missed games on there that aren't injury related. Quite a few of those injuries he actually returned back to the game or a worst played the very next one.

Some of those games were rest days. You really gonna blow a vessel when you see players on load management.

The fact of the matter is that injuries are part of the game. At one point in time Steph Curry was injury prone by fan perspective.

Then he goes out and have consecutive 70+ game in seasons of play...…..just like Davis has done within the last couple years.


By your standard Frank and Dennis should be injury prone.

The funniest part of if we somehow pull it off and land thr big 3 of AD/KD and one of Kyrie, Kemba or Jrue there will be people complaining here despite it being perhaps the greatest trio to ever don Knick uniforms in New York history.

Call me crazy but Ill be celebrating cuz for the first time since the LJ Spree and H2O days we have a chance of competing for a championship.

Haven’t won in over 50+ years but Knick fans stay entitled. Want to win the Warriors way. Build like the Thunder with KD, Westbrook & Harden. Like that doesn’t require more luck than free agency signings working out.

You would think with our egos that we would be Celtics or Lakers fans. Ironically enough those two are two teams that are trying to do exactly what folks dont want the Knicks to do but we act like we know better. Neither Boston nor LA are caring much about homegrown talent right now, they have one objective in mind and its clear what that is, its what's always been for them. Win titles, find a way, doesn't matter how but win titles. Nothing else matters. Only to Knicks fans something as silly as homegrown players matter.

[malik959]

After watching a few games of Texas Tech I must say Jarrett Culver is what I expected from Frank. Same style of play (Slow but in control). If Frank got his shot going I would call them twins.

[Orange Mamba]

Watch on YouTube

[F N 11]

Watch on YouTube

Frankie Clutch with the big RJ montage.

[stuporman]

Not sure what's going on in this thread anymore...... so here's a kid throwing pigeons at people.

Read on Twitter

[BBALLER4FR]

Watch on YouTube

Frankie Clutch with the big RJ montage.

There's no way the Pels prefer getting Tatum over the proven Zion/Barrett combination. Those 2 already click! AD has had enough and Zion is watching. If the Pels want to see Zion interested in staying (after his rookie contract), then they better get the guy who would be holding a pen right next to him on that day. Otherwise risk watching Zion leave for the team that has Barrett (and Kyrie and Mitch).