Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond

[thebuzzardman]

A. Whether or not it is counterproductive depends on the guy they are trading for.

B. What young talent? None of the young guys on the roster are premium talents. The only one with any reasonable potential probability to get there is Mitch, and even his most ideal fantasy ceiling is Anthony Davis.

Come on, there's young talent here. It's hard to project how far their games will evolve, but guys like DSJ, Knox and Frank I believe to be young talent. There's a reason they were all selected in the middle of the lottery- they're very young teenagers coming into the league that need 3-4+ years to see how their games are evolving.

Why give up on our young lottery guys when they've only had 1-2 seasons in the league? There's the obvious chance that their games don't pan out, but I'd rather roll the dice on seeing if they can continue to improve.

I saw Mudiay go from a career sub 40% shooter to a guy who averaged around 45% from the field this year. If that moron can improve, I have faith our other young guys can if given ample opportunities.

The inverse of that is why wait for those kids to maybe pan out in 3-4 years when you can form an elite trio and spend those same 3 years pursuing NBA titles?

I like the kids. I really do. But the name of the game is championships. Kyrie, KD, and AD put us significantly closer than DSJ, Knox, and Frank.

But the debate is what Kyrie, KD and AD do vs DSJr, Knox, and Frank.

It's what does Kyrie, KD, and AD and Trier? do vs Kyrie, KD, RJ, DSJr, Knox, Frank, Mitch, Trier, all the Knicks own picks moving forward, plus Mavs picks in 2021 and 2023, where some of the players and picks can be moved in along the way for better players.

I get AD the scenario where AD is potentially available right away. I'm just pointing out KD & Kyrie can come and it can be all the youth around them, or half the youth and half moved for player(s) X, not named AD. Even if it takes another season.

[F N 11]

Stefan Bondy
✔
@SBondyNYDN
Sources: Frank Ntilikina dropped his agents at CAA after he wasn't traded at the deadline last season. Plan was to sign with French agent Bouna Ndiaye.

88
9:07 AM - May 20, 2019
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Go do your thing Franky. Mf's dont know how to use you ever. You have to get better but not once did they give you a legit chance.

[GONYK]

Kyrie is a great player to have in crunch time in the 4th and whenever the shotclock is winding down (just give it to him and let him go into iso mode,) but I'm a bit concerned with his overall style and how he'll orchestrate the offense here.

If Durant wants him here, than obviously you have to go get him but I can't imagine that would be the best guy to pair with KD. Their styles don't seem like they'd mesh well. Irving has only done well playing alongside Lebron who is essentially a modern day version of Magic Johnson so that guy can make anyone look good.

It's weird even talking about these FA's as plausible options this summer. The FO kept saying for 2 years that they were going to build this thing right (for once) and build around young talent accrued from the draft and just "staying the course." Them getting 2 max FA's seems like a shortcut, which I'm ok with, but if they go all out for AD than everything they mentioned the past few seasons was a blatant lie. We'd be dumping all our assets from tanking for the last few years for one guy. That seems counterproductive.

A. Whether or not it is counterproductive depends on the guy they are trading for.

B. What young talent? None of the young guys on the roster are premium talents. The only one with any reasonable potential probability to get there is Mitch, and even his most ideal fantasy ceiling is Anthony Davis.

While I agree, there are a few things to consider. Just consider. This isn't a hard sell on these ideas.

RJ is one of the costs of AD. So is Knox. Maybe DSJr as well. I guess RJ has the highest upside. And while DSJr has been in the league a minute, he's not exactly a finished product, as Frank isn't and neither is Knox, particularly. Obviously same for Mitch. I'm realistic - other than maybe RJ, the rest weren't touted as the next big thing coming into the draft, but at least DSJr and Knox weren't thought of as bums or puzzling for their draft slot. Frank has always been divisive, even among scouts and FO's. Mitch is an oddity, as he had buzz in HS after the McDonalds AA game, but the odd college situation caused him to drop.

Anyway, editorializing about the young guys aside, 19 year olds being drafted means as fans, and for FO's, where it really counts, is there is some real projection and scouting that has to go on, in terms of what will these guys be in a couple of years, factored in what does a team want to then to be on the hook to have to resign them entering their 4th and 5th year, when these players, a majority of the time, are rounding into form?

So, I get the Knicks aren't trading the next Luka or LeBron here, but all these players represent former top 10 picks, most of whom (if not all, depends) retain some upside, who are cost controlled and cheap.

It's similar to what I said before. I personally can't decide. Trade them all for AD and have no assets or bench left? (assume some Mavs and Knick picks to out too) Half step it and sign two FA's and keep the youth? Roll it over another year or two, take bad contracts and keep all the youth, minus some players flipped for moar picks? Who knows what is best. Especially the "AD or no AD" scenario.

Final point - I mean, if the Knicks could get AD but retain Mitch, Trier and thier own picks moving forward? Yeah, I'd do that for AD.

But if it's going to be some "Herschel Walker Special"? Nah.

I don't think any of the young guys, outside of Mitch, have shown anything that I'd lose sleep over losing or find to be totally irreplaceable, within the context of losing their contributions for an elite two-way talent like AD.

Losing RJ should give people pause, but that is mainly because we haven't seen him in the NBA yet. The potential is alluring. I personally am not buying the Harden level ceiling, but it is possible.

I just don't see the benefit of a half measure here. We're either going to pursue rings in KD's window, or we're not. If we're going to go for it, then do it to the hilt.

I agree, that a Herschel Walker type deal is a no go. I just don't think that lost Knox, DSJ, Frank rise to the level of loss that would put the deal in that category.

[GONYK]

Come on, there's young talent here. It's hard to project how far their games will evolve, but guys like DSJ, Knox and Frank I believe to be young talent. There's a reason they were all selected in the middle of the lottery- they're very young teenagers coming into the league that need 3-4+ years to see how their games are evolving.

Why give up on our young lottery guys when they've only had 1-2 seasons in the league? There's the obvious chance that their games don't pan out, but I'd rather roll the dice on seeing if they can continue to improve.

I saw Mudiay go from a career sub 40% shooter to a guy who averaged around 45% from the field this year. If that moron can improve, I have faith our other young guys can if given ample opportunities.

The inverse of that is why wait for those kids to maybe pan out in 3-4 years when you can form an elite trio and spend those same 3 years pursuing NBA titles?

I like the kids. I really do. But the name of the game is championships. Kyrie, KD, and AD put us significantly closer than DSJ, Knox, and Frank.

But the debate is what Kyrie, KD and AD do vs DSJr, Knox, and Frank.

It's what does Kyrie, KD, and AD and Trier? do vs Kyrie, KD, RJ, DSJr, Knox, Frank, Mitch, Trier, all the Knicks own picks moving forward, plus Mavs picks in 2021 and 2023, where some of the players and picks can be moved in along the way for better players.

I get AD the scenario where AD is potentially available right away. I'm just pointing out KD & Kyrie can come and it can be all the youth around them, or half the youth and half moved for player(s) X, not named AD. Even if it takes another season.

The youth would be replaced with experience if we get AD. The roster will have functional talent.

The tradeoff happens after KD and Kyrie decline. But if we've won a ring or two, nobody will care.

[Bluewaterheaven]

Kyrie
RJ
Kd
?
MITCH

AND LETS **** GO!!!!!

That would be a very good team but do they beat the Bucks, Warriors, Houston or maybe even Toronto?

Mitch second year leap is going to be crazy. fuq AD.

I am curious as to why Kyrie, other than the rumors he wants to pay in NY. Why not:

mle PG
RJ
Khawi
Kd
MITCH

Seems like a better team? And very possible for you all?

[KnixinSix]

The inverse of that is why wait for those kids to maybe pan out in 3-4 years when you can form an elite trio and spend those same 3 years pursuing NBA titles?

I like the kids. I really do. But the name of the game is championships. Kyrie, KD, and AD put us significantly closer than DSJ, Knox, and Frank.

But the debate is what Kyrie, KD and AD do vs DSJr, Knox, and Frank.

It's what does Kyrie, KD, and AD and Trier? do vs Kyrie, KD, RJ, DSJr, Knox, Frank, Mitch, Trier, all the Knicks own picks moving forward, plus Mavs picks in 2021 and 2023, where some of the players and picks can be moved in along the way for better players.

I get AD the scenario where AD is potentially available right away. I'm just pointing out KD & Kyrie can come and it can be all the youth around them, or half the youth and half moved for player(s) X, not named AD. Even if it takes another season.

The youth would be replaced with experience if we get AD. The roster will have functional talent.

The tradeoff happens after KD and Kyrie decline. But if we've won a ring or two, nobody will care.

This is the crux of it. Going all in for the win. Plus their contracts aren't like Baseball ones where you see guys signing for 10 years. Most Kyrie or KD go is probably 5-6 years. I would imagine at least.

[KnixinSix]

That would be a very good team but do they beat the Bucks, Warriors, Houston or maybe even Toronto?

Mitch second year leap is going to be crazy. fuq AD.

I am curious as to why Kyrie, other than the rumors he wants to pay in NY. Why not:

mle PG
RJ
Khawi
Kd
MITCH

Seems like a better team? And very possible for you all?

Many here would love Kawhi as the 2nd max (I would too) he'sp an elite defender in addition to great offensive player. But all the rumorsp point to him being set to go somewhere else. Also it is believed that KD and Kawhi aren't too simpatico. KD and Kawhi would be amazing but I highly doubt it happens.

[Context]

Say it comes down to Lakers and Celtics

Would you be willing to help the Lakers edge out the Celtics

Knicks Get
#4, Kuzma and Lonzo Ball

Lakers get
#3, DSJR and Knox

We get to keep Mitch and keep AD from Boston

Flip Lonzo to the Suns or keep him

Now we have the #4 and #6 ( or ball) , 2 max spots, Kuzma + Mitch and Frank

Not giving up RJ or Morant for Ball and Kuzman- especially since they're rookie contracts are coming to an end...

[Context]

Looks like a rising all star...

[TheGreenArrow]

Looks like a rising all star...

With each passing day im falling more in love with this kid.

[Context]

Looks like a rising all star...

With each passing day im falling more in love with this kid.

I'm starting to think he's the real prize this year NOT Zion...And thats not to say
Zion wont be good at what he does...

[thebuzzardman]

The inverse of that is why wait for those kids to maybe pan out in 3-4 years when you can form an elite trio and spend those same 3 years pursuing NBA titles?

I like the kids. I really do. But the name of the game is championships. Kyrie, KD, and AD put us significantly closer than DSJ, Knox, and Frank.

But the debate is what Kyrie, KD and AD do vs DSJr, Knox, and Frank.

It's what does Kyrie, KD, and AD and Trier? do vs Kyrie, KD, RJ, DSJr, Knox, Frank, Mitch, Trier, all the Knicks own picks moving forward, plus Mavs picks in 2021 and 2023, where some of the players and picks can be moved in along the way for better players.

I get AD the scenario where AD is potentially available right away. I'm just pointing out KD & Kyrie can come and it can be all the youth around them, or half the youth and half moved for player(s) X, not named AD. Even if it takes another season.

The youth would be replaced with experience if we get AD. The roster will have functional talent.

The tradeoff happens after KD and Kyrie decline. But if we've won a ring or two, nobody will care.

It'll have it's talent concentrated in 3 guys, with difficulty responding to ways to tweak the roster over the course of the guys being there. I'm not saying no one will come for the vet min and ring chase, but if the trade leaves the team with no assets with which to upgrade the team, I'm not so sure how easy it will be to get that functional talent past the big 3. Again, this is a factor the closer a deal is to "herschel walker" level.
There are absolutely scenarios where AD comes in and there might be enough left over, not where the youth is so awesome, but at least there's a player and some picks to do more around the big 3. Even great teams that have a great core generally are making moves around them.
Anyway, splitting hairs a bit. I wouldn't mind AD, but the trade has to be right, even if the young guys aren't world beaters.

[Knick4Real]

Looks like a rising all star...

I like RJ. If KD wants him I'm all for it. However, I don't wanna get attached yet because KD/Mills/Perry might have other ideas and something else in the works.

[GONYK]

But the debate is what Kyrie, KD and AD do vs DSJr, Knox, and Frank.

It's what does Kyrie, KD, and AD and Trier? do vs Kyrie, KD, RJ, DSJr, Knox, Frank, Mitch, Trier, all the Knicks own picks moving forward, plus Mavs picks in 2021 and 2023, where some of the players and picks can be moved in along the way for better players.

I get AD the scenario where AD is potentially available right away. I'm just pointing out KD & Kyrie can come and it can be all the youth around them, or half the youth and half moved for player(s) X, not named AD. Even if it takes another season.

The youth would be replaced with experience if we get AD. The roster will have functional talent.

The tradeoff happens after KD and Kyrie decline. But if we've won a ring or two, nobody will care.

It'll have it's talent concentrated in 3 guys, with difficulty responding to ways to tweak the roster over the course of the guys being there. I'm not saying no one will come for the vet min and ring chase, but if the trade leaves the team with no assets with which to upgrade the team, I'm not so sure how easy it will be to get that functional talent past the big 3. Again, this is a factor the closer a deal is to "herschel walker" level.
There are absolutely scenarios where AD comes in and there might be enough left over, not where the youth is so awesome, but at least there's a player and some picks to do more around the big 3. Even great teams that have a great core generally are making moves around them.
Anyway, splitting hairs a bit. I wouldn't mind AD, but the trade has to be right, even if the young guys aren't world beaters.

We've seen this model work though.

There were GSW fans who complained that they lost too much depth when they had to let players walk for KD.

What did losing Speights, Fezili, Bogut, etc... really matter in the long run?

[thebuzzardman]

But the debate is what Kyrie, KD and AD do vs DSJr, Knox, and Frank.

It's what does Kyrie, KD, and AD and Trier? do vs Kyrie, KD, RJ, DSJr, Knox, Frank, Mitch, Trier, all the Knicks own picks moving forward, plus Mavs picks in 2021 and 2023, where some of the players and picks can be moved in along the way for better players.

I get AD the scenario where AD is potentially available right away. I'm just pointing out KD & Kyrie can come and it can be all the youth around them, or half the youth and half moved for player(s) X, not named AD. Even if it takes another season.

The youth would be replaced with experience if we get AD. The roster will have functional talent.

The tradeoff happens after KD and Kyrie decline. But if we've won a ring or two, nobody will care.

This is the crux of it. Going all in for the win. Plus their contracts aren't like Baseball ones where you see guys signing for 10 years. Most Kyrie or KD go is probably 5-6 years. I would imagine at least.

I think it's 5 years when guys resign with their team and 4 as FA's on other teams, correct? I guess AD could get 5 if traded to the Knicks.

Again, I don't specifically have an issue trading for AD. In fact, it would be great. How it happens matters, just like anything. Again, even if it's a total f*ck up, it's 4 years. Hell, I can do 18 years of sh*t Knick basketball standing on my head!

I think good teams work this way. I mean, even with the Knicks got Melo, then Amare, then Chandler - and I know there was a ton of debate what to when it ended, who got stretched vs this and that with Billups, but whatever, for me, the bottom line was, when the first 4 or 5 year plan with Melo/Amare/Chandler didn't work, that was the time to blow it all up and start over.

Same here. Give it a go for 4 years, reboot, start again.

[HarthorneWingo]

Stefan Bondy
✔
@SBondyNYDN
Sources: Frank Ntilikina dropped his agents at CAA after he wasn't traded at the deadline last season. Plan was to sign with French agent Bouna Ndiaye.

88
9:07 AM - May 20, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

Go do your thing Franky. Mf's dont know how to use you ever. You have to get better but not once did they give you a legit chance.

Our front office is Euro racist.

[KnixinSix]

But the debate is what Kyrie, KD and AD do vs DSJr, Knox, and Frank.

It's what does Kyrie, KD, and AD and Trier? do vs Kyrie, KD, RJ, DSJr, Knox, Frank, Mitch, Trier, all the Knicks own picks moving forward, plus Mavs picks in 2021 and 2023, where some of the players and picks can be moved in along the way for better players.

I get AD the scenario where AD is potentially available right away. I'm just pointing out KD & Kyrie can come and it can be all the youth around them, or half the youth and half moved for player(s) X, not named AD. Even if it takes another season.

The youth would be replaced with experience if we get AD. The roster will have functional talent.

The tradeoff happens after KD and Kyrie decline. But if we've won a ring or two, nobody will care.

It'll have it's talent concentrated in 3 guys, with difficulty responding to ways to tweak the roster over the course of the guys being there. I'm not saying no one will come for the vet min and ring chase, but if the trade leaves the team with no assets with which to upgrade the team, I'm not so sure how easy it will be to get that functional talent past the big 3. Again, this is a factor the closer a deal is to "herschel walker" level.
There are absolutely scenarios where AD comes in and there might be enough left over, not where the youth is so awesome, but at least there's a player and some picks to do more around the big 3. Even great teams that have a great core generally are making moves around them.
Anyway, splitting hairs a bit. I wouldn't mind AD, but the trade has to be right, even if the young guys aren't world beaters.

Sensible post. This is where I think that Mitch staying would be a big win. You know at minumum they will want the #3. And for cap purposes the 'bigger' salaries have to go : Knox, Frank, DSJ. But Mitch is a lower salary, Trier is lower, Dotson and Allen. DeAndre for MLE or Mid room. Then your vet ring chasers. And hopefully we get their round 2 pick this year. I think that is enough of a core and still worth AD.

[thebuzzardman]

The youth would be replaced with experience if we get AD. The roster will have functional talent.

The tradeoff happens after KD and Kyrie decline. But if we've won a ring or two, nobody will care.

It'll have it's talent concentrated in 3 guys, with difficulty responding to ways to tweak the roster over the course of the guys being there. I'm not saying no one will come for the vet min and ring chase, but if the trade leaves the team with no assets with which to upgrade the team, I'm not so sure how easy it will be to get that functional talent past the big 3. Again, this is a factor the closer a deal is to "herschel walker" level.
There are absolutely scenarios where AD comes in and there might be enough left over, not where the youth is so awesome, but at least there's a player and some picks to do more around the big 3. Even great teams that have a great core generally are making moves around them.
Anyway, splitting hairs a bit. I wouldn't mind AD, but the trade has to be right, even if the young guys aren't world beaters.

We've seen this model work though.

There were GSW fans who complained that they lost too much depth when they had to let players walk for KD.

What did losing Speights, Fezili, Bogut, etc... really matter in the long run?

I agree to a degree, but I'm hesitant to say KD, Kyrie and AD bring the same sort of thing to team that Curry, Klay, Dray and Iggy bring.
Hell, KD is just icing over that.

The Heat a bit better example, maybe.

[GONYK]

It'll have it's talent concentrated in 3 guys, with difficulty responding to ways to tweak the roster over the course of the guys being there. I'm not saying no one will come for the vet min and ring chase, but if the trade leaves the team with no assets with which to upgrade the team, I'm not so sure how easy it will be to get that functional talent past the big 3. Again, this is a factor the closer a deal is to "herschel walker" level.
There are absolutely scenarios where AD comes in and there might be enough left over, not where the youth is so awesome, but at least there's a player and some picks to do more around the big 3. Even great teams that have a great core generally are making moves around them.
Anyway, splitting hairs a bit. I wouldn't mind AD, but the trade has to be right, even if the young guys aren't world beaters.

We've seen this model work though.

There were GSW fans who complained that they lost too much depth when they had to let players walk for KD.

What did losing Speights, Fezili, Bogut, etc... really matter in the long run?

I agree to a degree, but I'm hesitant to say KD, Kyrie and AD bring the same sort of thing to team that Curry, Klay, Dray and Iggy bring.
Hell, KD is just icing over that.

The Heat a bit better example, maybe.

I would say that a big 3 of KD/KI/AD is better than Miami's 3.

Certainly better balanced.

[captvict]

R.J. Barrett reminds me of Carmelo in his last year of school. If I’m not mistaken they shot around the same
Percentage

This dude is the reL deal. Incredible fearless slasher
That nobody on this team can imitate I watched all his tapes and he really attacks the rim with a bully ball attitude. Once he gets that midrange down we have a young Carmelo

We would regret trading this 18 YEAR OLD for AD. I say
no deal

Dsj
RJ
KD
Tobias
Mitch