ImageImageImageImageImage

Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond

Moderators: HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36, j4remi

What Should We Do With It?

RJ
145
74%
Cam
3
2%
Garland
9
5%
Culver
3
2%
Other
1
1%
Trade Down
8
4%
Trade Out Of The Draft
20
10%
Give Up and Follow The Warriors
1
1%
STFU Capn'O
6
3%
 
Total votes: 196

Billy Goat
Analyst
Posts: 3,344
And1: 1,804
Joined: Mar 08, 2017
 

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1841 » by Billy Goat » Wed May 22, 2019 11:39 pm

blueNorange wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
F N 11 wrote:Why are people against Morant? Let me guess small school? Came out of nowhere? Small frame?

I like Morant but I would stick with DSJ for now. Both have similar upside but DSJ is more proven and plays defense. Let’s say the Knicks decide to give DSJ another shot at starting PG next year and he regresses, I would then look to replace him with someone like Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton or Theo Maledon

dude, morant is better than dsj.

there's a million reasons to avoid morant
, having dsj ain't one of them.

dsj is going to either be traded or come off the bench because one of kyrie/kemba is going to be a knick.


What? There's a zero percent chance he falls to the Knicks, but if by miracle he does you run to the podium to take him. Dennis Smith Jr is an end of the bench guy you can put in dunk contests.. What are we doing here.
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,872
And1: 45,481
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1842 » by GONYK » Wed May 22, 2019 11:41 pm

F N 11 wrote:Breaking News: KP threatened to go back to Europe of he wasn’t traded in 7 days and we already had the best trade lined up. If you don’t trust this front office I think you should.

That's not breaking news really. We knew back then that he was planning to go back to Madrid and rehab instead of staying with the team.
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,872
And1: 45,481
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1843 » by GONYK » Wed May 22, 2019 11:42 pm

awy wrote:there are maybe 5-8 guys that are #1 material on a finals level team in the whole league.

it is an incredibly high bar.

Agreed. The term "franchise player" gets thrown around a lot, but there are maybe 5 in the whole league.
User avatar
DowNY
RealGM
Posts: 13,879
And1: 10,366
Joined: Dec 19, 2010
Location: Your mom's crib, NYC
     

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1844 » by DowNY » Thu May 23, 2019 12:47 am

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
HEZI wrote:OKC is also looking to move on from Andre Roberson by giving a promise to Matisse Thybule. Gotta imagine they will be looking to deal Hami Diallo or TFerg but I'm guessing it's gonna be Diallo


I do wonder if the Knicks would be tempted to deal Frank for Andre. You're basically getting actualized potential Frank and we know Robertson would fill a role on a KD led team. I'm just deathly afraid of his knee injuries.

I wouldn’t trade a 2032 2nd rd pick for Roberson
Knicksfan1992
RealGM
Posts: 14,081
And1: 14,565
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
         

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1845 » by Knicksfan1992 » Thu May 23, 2019 12:56 am

GONYK wrote:
awy wrote:there are maybe 5-8 guys that are #1 material on a finals level team in the whole league.

it is an incredibly high bar.

Agreed. The term "franchise player" gets thrown around a lot, but there are maybe 5 in the whole league.
Eh I think the Warriors and Lebron era heat skewed perception of that because of their dominance and absurd outliers of a team construction. If the Warriors and Big 3 weren't a thing we'd view a lot more guys as being able to be #1 material on a finals team.
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,872
And1: 45,481
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1846 » by GONYK » Thu May 23, 2019 1:51 am

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
GONYK wrote:
awy wrote:there are maybe 5-8 guys that are #1 material on a finals level team in the whole league.

it is an incredibly high bar.

Agreed. The term "franchise player" gets thrown around a lot, but there are maybe 5 in the whole league.
Eh I think the Warriors and Lebron era heat skewed perception of that because of their dominance and absurd outliers of a team construction. If the Warriors and Big 3 weren't a thing we'd view a lot more guys as being able to be #1 material on a finals team.

My criteria has always been the same. Elite/near elite Two way player that can also facilitate the offense.

That hasn't changed, regardless of the era. Only a handful of guys fit the bill.
User avatar
god shammgod
RealGM
Posts: 137,827
And1: 136,105
Joined: Feb 18, 2006

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1847 » by god shammgod » Thu May 23, 2019 2:04 am

most of the guys who win championships are rated one of the best ever at their position. several all-stars is not even enough. you need at least one future hall of famer and often more than one. there's a few outliers but this mostly holds true. there's only so many of those guys at once in the league.
User avatar
Orange Mamba
Analyst
Posts: 3,504
And1: 3,356
Joined: Feb 02, 2012
 

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1848 » by Orange Mamba » Thu May 23, 2019 3:33 am

jullybully21
Sophomore
Posts: 157
And1: 93
Joined: Jan 05, 2015
   

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1849 » by jullybully21 » Thu May 23, 2019 4:11 am

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
jullybully21 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
if Memphis does for some reason go Barrett im trading 3 to the suns so they can get Morant. For #6 and there unprotected 2020 pick.

You would get one of Garland/Culver/Hunter + suns unprotected 2020.


Throw in Mikal Bridges as well and I would happily do this deal if Rj goes second.


i'm sure last year's lottery pick who has performed to expectation is not considered a throw-in at this point.


I'm not claiming him to be a throw-in; I'm saying I want him in the deal if they badly want Morant. Mikal Bridges would be a nice fit between Kyrie and KD :D .
User avatar
Worst_to_First
RealGM
Posts: 11,740
And1: 9,645
Joined: Feb 25, 2015
 

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1850 » by Worst_to_First » Thu May 23, 2019 4:53 am

Hope the Grizzlies FO don’t see this video LOL.

User avatar
Fat
RealGM
Posts: 33,521
And1: 25,659
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Queens, NY

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1851 » by Fat » Thu May 23, 2019 6:25 am

El Poochio wrote:Proud Cam voter checking in

We started from 0 now we are 3

Baby steps, like his career trajectory..


I hope cam proves doubters wrong. I’m still a fan but to gutsy to take him top 3.
Baf: Heat Culture

PG: Dennis Schroder| Podziemski | Shead
SG: Devin Booker | Agbaji| Strawther
SF: Demar Derozan | Okogie | Strawther
PF: Karl Towns | Jabari | Highsmith
C: Brook Lopez | Kornet | Achiuwa
islanders11040
Head Coach
Posts: 7,418
And1: 6,978
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Location: New York
       

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1852 » by islanders11040 » Thu May 23, 2019 7:26 am

Love Morant offensively. Scary bad defensively. Watched him ALOT this year as one of the early Bandwagoners. He’s a matador. Routinely stops paying attention to his man off ball. Only aspect of defense that was decent was some weak side blocks he got due to athleticism. Usually got this done by leaving his own man wide open
Juco24
Head Coach
Posts: 6,214
And1: 5,803
Joined: Feb 12, 2013

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1853 » by Juco24 » Thu May 23, 2019 8:53 am



Good read
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 81,269
And1: 94,920
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Villanovknicks

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1854 » by thebuzzardman » Thu May 23, 2019 9:42 am

F N 11 wrote:Breaking News: KP threatened to go back to Europe of he wasn’t traded in 7 days and we already had the best trade lined up. If you don’t trust this front office I think you should.


Kristaps ADingus
Image
J9Starks3
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,897
And1: 1,195
Joined: May 22, 2007
Location: CT
       

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1855 » by J9Starks3 » Thu May 23, 2019 10:03 am

GONYK wrote:
awy wrote:there are maybe 5-8 guys that are #1 material on a finals level team in the whole league.

it is an incredibly high bar.

Agreed. The term "franchise player" gets thrown around a lot, but there are maybe 5 in the whole league.


I think the number has grown a bit over the last couple of years...

KD, Curry, Kawhi, Giannis, Harden, LeBron are all definitely there - so at least 6 and I think it’s hard to argue against any of them.

Throw in Embiid, because a healthy Embiid is a beast and maybe AD (for all the heat he takes about the playoffs I think AD in the east has similar success to Giannis), Dame, Westbrook, Kyrie and George who all can be argued there but probably not unanimously.

And a couple youngsters knocking on the door like Doncic, Young, Donovan Mitchell,Jokic, Knox (joking)

I think 4 or 5 years ago I had a bleaker picture- but there’s been an uptick in talent for sure
User avatar
Jeff Van Gully
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 30,445
And1: 30,532
Joined: Jul 31, 2010
     

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1856 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu May 23, 2019 11:19 am

jullybully21 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
jullybully21 wrote:
Throw in Mikal Bridges as well and I would happily do this deal if Rj goes second.


i'm sure last year's lottery pick who has performed to expectation is not considered a throw-in at this point.


I'm not claiming him to be a throw-in; I'm saying I want him in the deal if they badly want Morant. Mikal Bridges would be a nice fit between Kyrie and KD :D .


you don't think effectively 3 consecutive lottery picks is a lot to ask?
RIP magnumt

thanks for everything, thibs.

Knicks Forum: State of the Board - Summer 2025
avatar by evevale
BowlRips
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,688
And1: 2,934
Joined: Jul 16, 2009
     

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1857 » by BowlRips » Thu May 23, 2019 11:38 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
F N 11 wrote:Breaking News: KP threatened to go back to Europe of he wasn’t traded in 7 days and we already had the best trade lined up. If you don’t trust this front office I think you should.


Kristaps ADingus


I must say it’s very impressive how quickly they were able to act. If news of his trade demand became public we would’ve lost a ton of leverage and not have been able to get the return we did.
User avatar
F N 11
RealGM
Posts: 94,925
And1: 67,660
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1858 » by F N 11 » Thu May 23, 2019 12:13 pm

BowlRips wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
F N 11 wrote:Breaking News: KP threatened to go back to Europe of he wasn’t traded in 7 days and we already had the best trade lined up. If you don’t trust this front office I think you should.


Kristaps ADingus


I must say it’s very impressive how quickly they were able to act. If news of his trade demand became public we would’ve lost a ton of leverage and not have been able to get the return we did.


In previous years we would of been embarrassed and not get value. This is why the view of the team is changing. Scott Perry does due diligence. Trade was already lined up and kP and his team was tight and tried to make it seem like we did something wrong by having a trade lined up :lol: .

Image
CEO of the not trading RJ Club
Zenzibar
General Manager
Posts: 8,839
And1: 9,490
Joined: Jan 10, 2019
         

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1859 » by Zenzibar » Thu May 23, 2019 12:21 pm




Good find. Allow me to lend a hand. This is what it says:

****
Report:


We’ve known where the Knicks are drafting on June 20 for a little more than a week. With Duke power forward Zion Williamson a shoo-in to be the top pick and the Grizzlies reportedly locking in on Murray State point guard Ja Morant with the second selection, Duke forward RJ Barrett is the chalk selection for the Knicks at No. 3.

The franchise is wisely doing its due diligence on Morant as well as with Texas Tech shooting guard Jarrett Culver, Virginia forward De'Andre Hunter, North Carolina point guard Coby White, Vanderbilt point guard Darius Garland and the other players projected to go in the mid to high lottery, but Barrett is the odds-on favorite.

I’ve done a deep dive on Barrett as a prospect by watching a lot of his games, talking to people who have tracked him since high school and looking at his box score and advanced statistics. Keep in mind there is a range of outcomes for every single prospect. There is no guarantee what Barrett becomes, but here is his background, physical traits and an exploration of his game as he hits the NBA.

1. SIZE

Barrett wasn’t measured at the combine, but he was measured a year ago at the Nike Hoop Summit at 6-foot-7 with a 6-10 wingspan. Barrett has ideal size for an NBA wing and could still be growing.

Related:

'The Bank Shot' Knicks Podcast: RJ Barrett Deep Dive
Durant's Manager: Warriors Star Doesn't Know Where He'll Sign
2. AGE

Barrett reclassified on July 31, 2017, and instead of heading to college in 2019, he went to Duke in 2018 as the top high school prospect in the country. He won't turn 19 until June 14, making him one of the youngest players in this draft class.

3. PEDIGREE

Barrett’s father, Rowan, played at St. John’s, on Canada’s Olympic team with Steve Nash (who is his godfather) and had a career in Europe. Barrett played high school and AAU basketball in the United States, but he was also trained up in the European style of basketball by playing in Canada’s FIBA program since the seventh grade. He reached the national title game in high school, led Canada’s under-19 team to a championship (at the age of 17), won the tournament MVP and helped lead Duke to an ACC title. He checks every box here.

4. INTANGIBLES

Barrett has handled stardom every step of the way and is known as an extremely diligent and hard worker with no red flags off the floor. He should be able to handle the bright lights of New York since he relishes being the star on his team and taking big shots. He has been in that role for much of his young career. No one has raised any questions about whether he might not be a good teammate. This is another area where NBA teams should have no worries.

5. PRODUCTION

If you are a traditional box-score scout, you can’t go wrong with Barrett. As a freshman at Duke, while sharing the floor for much of the season with Williamson, he averaged 22.6 points, 7.6 rebounds and 4.3 assists. He shot 45.4% from the floor and got to the free-throw line six times a game. Barrett is an elite producer of gross stats. According to Tommy Beer of Forbes, he was the first player in NCAA Division I history to tally at least 850 points, 250 rebounds and 150 assists in a single season. He joins three other freshmen who scored 850-plus points: Kevin Durant, Michael Beasley and Trae Young.

6. PASSING

Barrett’s natural position right now could very well be point guard or point forward, as he developed into Duke’s primary initiator out of the pick-and-roll throughout the season. According to Synergy, he was in the 94th percentile finding the roll man when the defense committed to him in screen-and-roll situations. He’s also in the 89th percentile as a passer in isolation situations. He is a very capable but not elite passer who can make good reads and decisions. He was inconsistent, however, and far too often did not utilize those skills as a willing passer.

7. OFFENSE

There are many instances on Barrett’s film when he gets tunnel vision for the basket, seemingly predetermining that he wants to shoot the ball, which often results in tough, contested shots with little chance of going in. According to Synergy, Barrett was only in the 49th percentile (0.744 points per possession) in scoring while running the pick-and-roll at Duke and in the 59th percentile (0.829 points per possession) in isolation situations. Whether he doesn’t see his open teammates or simply chooses not to pass is impossible to determine with any certainty.

The game tape and advanced numbers show Barrett struggles to go right. He always tries to get to his dominant left hand, which will be something opposing players in the NBA will pick up on quickly. This should be easily correctable with additional practice. If Barrett can turn his solid handle into an elite handle, it could help him navigate the floor, get to his spots more effectively and become someone a team can run its offense through.

His issues as an efficient shot creator in the half-court are reflected in his 53.2% true shooting percentage, 52.5% finishing rate around the basket in non-post-ups (44th percentile) and 51st-percentile ranking in scoring in the half-court (0.861 points per possession), according to Synergy. It is possible those efficiency numbers will get better with more space in the NBA, but there will have to be an improvement in his skill set or athleticism to go along with the stylistic change.

Barrett does possess plenty of crafty movements, smarts and footwork, including a Euro step, that allow him to create a lot of his own offense. These are advanced skills for someone in his age group, but how well they will translate to the pros against top athletes remains to be seen. Barrett also excels in transition, as his athleticism shows up most often as a finisher where he can get above the rim.

Barrett can score, but can he score efficiently? This is the ultimate question NBA teams need to ask themselves.

8. SHOOTING

The skill Barrett will have to improve upon most is his shooting. His 3-point shooting (30.8%) and especially his free-throw shooting (66.5%) raise bright, red flags, and the advanced numbers from Synergy don’t paint a much prettier picture. His jumper is better the closer he is to the basket. Inside of 17 feet, he actually hits 44% of his jumpers, which is in the 75th percentile, but the numbers plummet as he nears the 3-point line.

On possessions when he shoots a jump shot in the half-court, Barrett hits only 33.7% of them, which is only in the 48th percentile. In spot-up situations, when he takes no dribbles before shooting a jumper, he is only in the 52nd percentile. In unguarded catch-and-shoot situations he was in just the 26th percentile. Including guarded possessions, he was in the 41st percentile, shooting 32% in catch-and-shoot situations. Despite these bad numbers, scouts believe his shooting has improved when he has his feet set.

Barrett’s shot looks flat, and his issues shooting from the perimeter date back to his younger days playing for Canada and in high school. He has flashed a step-back jumper and some ability to shoot off the dribble (64th percentile, according to Synergy). A shot is something every player can improve with more repetitions and better mechanics, but Barrett has a long way to go from where he is right now.

9. ATHLETICISM

Since Barrett didn’t do any testing at the combine, it is impossible to quantify the type of athlete he is. He is certainly an NBA-level athlete who should not be out of place battling bigger, stronger and faster players. His athleticism flashes most in transition, where he finishes well and shows the ability to get above the rim.

Aside from Barrett's struggles shooting from the perimeter in the half-court, his efficiency issues are a result of his lack of elite athleticism in small areas in the half-court. He rarely turns the corner on players to create separation. He has to rely on his length, strength or footwork to score through contact he initiates. It is easy to do that when playing against much smaller collegiate shooting guards. In the NBA, his bully-ball style against bigger opponents could be far more difficult to execute. There isn’t any sudden vertical leaping to finish at the rim without a long build-up, either. He lacks explosion and short-area burst.

Barrett does possess less obvious athletic traits. His body control and coordination are extremely strong, allowing him to manipulate in small spaces to score without innate elite athletic traits. He sometimes shows great touch despite awkward body positioning. These skills can go a long way.

10. DEFENSE

Barrett shows the ability to lock in as a man-on-man defender with his length and strength when he wants to, but he's inconsistent. He far too often gives up at the first sign of a screen and gets lost watching the ball as an off-ball defender. His failure to box out almost cost Duke an NCAA tournament game. He is a good rebounder for his position.

CONCLUSION

Low-End Projection: Low-efficiency player who never develops a jump shot and looks for his shot first. His lack of elite athleticism holds him back on both ends of the floor: Comparisons include Jeff Green or Andrew Wiggins. Evan Turner also works if he truly hits rock bottom with his scoring (which is unlikely.)

Median Projection: Point forward who never develops long, elite distance shooting, but he is good enough at everything else, including defense, to be a good starter. He makes two to four All-Star games during his career. Comparison is Jalen Rose.

High Projection: The jumper comes together, and he learns to overcome his lack of elite athleticism using his length, savvy and smarts to be a top scorer and playmaker for others. He is a perennial All-Star and All-NBA performer. Better passing version of DeMar DeRozan or Paul Pierce. Super high (unfair) projection: James Harden.

The most important factor that will determine where Barrett winds up on this developmental tree is how much he can improve his jump shot and overall offensive efficiency. An improved jumper would force defenders to guard him much tighter, which might allow him to break them down off the dribble and get to the hoop despite his lack of burst. Improved efficiency will come down to cleaning up his jumper, working on his shot selection, developing his handle more and finishing better near the rim.

The two other important parts of his game that he need to be fixed are his tendency to get tunnel vision for the basket and being a poor, low-effort off-ball defender. Even if his scoring efficiency takes a jump, these two issues could hold him back from true two-way superstardom and being someone who makes his team better rather than just being a stat stuffer.

Barrett has a lot of skills to work with and has it inside him to be an excellent basketball player who can do a little bit of everything on the court. Like all 19-year-olds, he will have a lot to work on when it comes to his game, but no player’s development curve is the same. Everyone develops differently, and it will be up to the Knicks to get the best out of him. Whether they can will determine exactly how good a player Barrett will become.


*******************************

Based on this prospect review, I would say it may be too risky a pick.
Stop All Genocides
Zenzibar
General Manager
Posts: 8,839
And1: 9,490
Joined: Jan 10, 2019
         

Re: Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond 

Post#1860 » by Zenzibar » Thu May 23, 2019 12:26 pm

islanders11040 wrote:Love Morant offensively. Scary bad defensively. Watched him ALOT this year as one of the early Bandwagoners. He’s a matador. Routinely stops paying attention to his man off ball. Only aspect of defense that was decent was some weak side blocks he got due to athleticism. Usually got this done by leaving his own man wide open



It's what makes Kawhi so unique. Very very few elite players have that 2-way game.
It's what made Walt Frazier the Kawhi Leonard of his time.

Stop All Genocides

Return to New York Knicks