Image ImageImage Image

2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery

Moderators: HomoSapien, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10

bearadonisdna
RealGM
Posts: 19,757
And1: 5,394
Joined: Jul 07, 2012

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#381 » by bearadonisdna » Thu May 23, 2019 6:40 am

cjbulls wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:honestly, thinking about it, i'd be shocked if workouts aren't enough to get someone ahead of us to bite on cam

he's like, genetically engineered to get a franchise like cleveland or phoenix to draft him only for him to turn out to be a bust. you're telling me they both have the willpower to pass on that guy??


I don't know what situation is best for him.

Is it better to go to Cleveland (or Knicks without a major free agent) where he can have free reign to develop his game and they give him tons of opportunities, including to run the point? I think you risk he struggles early and loses confidence, or picks up bad habits.

Or is it better to go to a place like Chicago (or Boston) where there is already an established lineup where you can come off the bench with no pressure while learning from someone like Porter. There you risk he never develops any extension of his game beyond 3&D because he's not allowed to be a high usage player.


A team like Chicago or Boston can give him an opportunity to succeed as opposed to other lottery teams.
User avatar
R3AL1TY
General Manager
Posts: 8,167
And1: 2,358
Joined: May 17, 2015
   

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#382 » by R3AL1TY » Thu May 23, 2019 9:06 am

If the Bulls take a risk on a player with a high ceiling but rough floor, I would rather it be for Little rather than Reddish. Reddish comes off too much like Snell and Ben McLemore to me.
JimmyJammer
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,651
And1: 1,798
Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#383 » by JimmyJammer » Thu May 23, 2019 10:04 am

I put my trust in the organization to find the best player at 7 to put on the team. On my list I have: White, Bol Bol, Reddish and Goga.
JimmyJammer
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,651
And1: 1,798
Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#384 » by JimmyJammer » Thu May 23, 2019 10:10 am

bearadonisdna wrote:
cjbulls wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:honestly, thinking about it, i'd be shocked if workouts aren't enough to get someone ahead of us to bite on cam

he's like, genetically engineered to get a franchise like cleveland or phoenix to draft him only for him to turn out to be a bust. you're telling me they both have the willpower to pass on that guy??


I don't know what situation is best for him.

Is it better to go to Cleveland (or Knicks without a major free agent) where he can have free reign to develop his game and they give him tons of opportunities, including to run the point? I think you risk he struggles early and loses confidence, or picks up bad habits.

Or is it better to go to a place like Chicago (or Boston) where there is already an established lineup where you can come off the bench with no pressure while learning from someone like Porter. There you risk he never develops any extension of his game beyond 3&D because he's not allowed to be a high usage player.


A team like Chicago or Boston can give him an opportunity to succeed as opposed to other lottery teams.


Yes, you are right. We are pretty much set at four positions, so unless we can find a dependable PG at 7, we might as well take a chance on a high upside guy.
User avatar
Ferulci
Starter
Posts: 2,477
And1: 2,540
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Location: France

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#385 » by Ferulci » Thu May 23, 2019 10:36 am

It's that time of the year where we convince ourselves that Cam Reddish could be a good pick right ?
He's a workout beast. Let's hope that someone draft him before us, before I don't want him anywhere near the Bulls. We have a season-long of evidences that he's a bigger Mclemore.
"But but Zion took all the spotlight"
Please check his stats while Zion was injured.
buckboy wrote:
jg77 wrote:Lavine is my dark horse MVP candidate.

That is the darkest horse that has ever galloped.
Rose2Boozer
Veteran
Posts: 2,645
And1: 817
Joined: Apr 07, 2011

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#386 » by Rose2Boozer » Thu May 23, 2019 11:14 am

I have a funny feeling Garpax will draft Hunter. At 7, Culver and Hunter seems like the most logical to drop. I'd be somewhat cool with Culver, but Hunter is my bust of the lottery rookie. Needless to say, I do not want.
ROLES & HOLES
AshyLarrysDiaper
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 16,172
And1: 7,846
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Location: Oakland

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#387 » by AshyLarrysDiaper » Thu May 23, 2019 11:40 am

Read on Twitter


Found this interesting.
Contribute to the "Fire GarPax" billboard here:
https://www.gofundme.com/3v7fc-let-our-voices-be-heard-firegarpax
User avatar
Chicagoat
Rookie
Posts: 1,025
And1: 1,041
Joined: Jan 12, 2017
 

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#388 » by Chicagoat » Thu May 23, 2019 12:18 pm

Langford seems like an interesting prospect. I feel that he'll end up being one of the best from this draft class

Langford at IU: 90th percentile as a P&R ballhandler (144 poss) | 76th percentile as an isolation player (49 poss)

Harden at Arizona St: 48th percentile as a P&R ballhandler (92 poss) | 73rd percentile as an isolation player (170 poss)

Curry at Davidson: 45th percentile as a P&R ballhandler (49 poss) | 80th percentile as an isolation player (150 poss)

Lillard at Weber St: 93rd percentile as a P&R ballhandler (152 poss) | 83rd percentile as an isolation player (100 poss)
AKME? More like MEAK with how they're afraid to make a move to push us in one direction.

Continuity :banghead: :banghead:
sco
RealGM
Posts: 27,399
And1: 9,204
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Location: Virtually Everywhere!

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#389 » by sco » Thu May 23, 2019 1:00 pm

I am still of the mind that 3-12...maybe 14, all have about the same chances to be a great/good/bad NBA player. I wonder if anyone later in lotto would be willing to trade up with us and get us another asset (future lotto protected 1st). IMO, that would be a huge win. That said, I'm fine swinging on any of White, Hunter, Culver, Garland or even Reddish - whoever is there and Pax thinks is BPA.

The BAD outcomes would be:
1) Trade #7 as part of package for Ball
2) Trade #7 and a future 1st for anyone other than Zion (i.e. Morant or Garland)
:clap:
User avatar
Jcool0
RealGM
Posts: 15,321
And1: 9,300
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
Location: Illinois
         

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#390 » by Jcool0 » Thu May 23, 2019 1:14 pm

Read on Twitter
User avatar
Ferulci
Starter
Posts: 2,477
And1: 2,540
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Location: France

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#391 » by Ferulci » Thu May 23, 2019 1:29 pm

Chicagoat wrote:Langford seems like an interesting prospect. I feel that he'll end up being one of the best from this draft class

Langford at IU: 90th percentile as a P&R ballhandler (144 poss) | 76th percentile as an isolation player (49 poss)

Harden at Arizona St: 48th percentile as a P&R ballhandler (92 poss) | 73rd percentile as an isolation player (170 poss)

Curry at Davidson: 45th percentile as a P&R ballhandler (49 poss) | 80th percentile as an isolation player (150 poss)

Lillard at Weber St: 93rd percentile as a P&R ballhandler (152 poss) | 83rd percentile as an isolation player (100 poss)

I like his potential as well. He's one of those guys where the franchise he ends up will have a huge impact on his career. My only fear for him is that he's a ballhog who can't play off the ball.

And it's official : I'm on the "trade-down for Hachimura" train. Risky, but the physical tools, his learning curve (only started basket at 13 in Japan, his progress form year to year at Gonzaga) reminds me Giannis in some way. I'm not saying he'll get to his level (I'll be happy if he's 60% of current giannis) but taking risks of kids like who'll live in the gym and have exponential growth is worth it.
buckboy wrote:
jg77 wrote:Lavine is my dark horse MVP candidate.

That is the darkest horse that has ever galloped.
User avatar
DuckIII
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 71,707
And1: 37,070
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
Location: On my high horse.
     

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#392 » by DuckIII » Thu May 23, 2019 1:54 pm

Ferulci wrote:It's that time of the year where we convince ourselves that Cam Reddish could be a good pick right ?
He's a workout beast. Let's hope that someone draft him before us, before I don't want him anywhere near the Bulls. We have a season-long of evidences that he's a bigger Mclemore.
"But but Zion took all the spotlight"
Please check his stats while Zion was injured.


I get your point, but this is what happens when you fall to 7th in what most of us believe to be a draft that falls off after 6. You start to consider riskier options.

Reddish’s freshman year at Duke was a shocker. His body, athleticism, form, and ball skills scream special talent. Then on the court it just wasn’t there. Little was similar though perhaps a little less extreme.

But guys who have questionable college seasons can develop in the NBA. I’m all in on taking a chance on the guys who might be much better than they produced, than on drafting low ceiling role players. I genuinely believe this is the last time we will draft this high for awhile barring Pelicans/Lakers like lotto luck.

Swing for the fences with fingers crossed. Be that Reddish, Little or Sekou (or “other”), I’m taking that chance on a wing.

It could blow up in your face. But I feel like “missing” on the pick is likely only going to cost us a role player we could have drafted instead, and those will be available in free agency.
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
BigJimFinn
Junior
Posts: 448
And1: 419
Joined: Nov 20, 2017
 

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#393 » by BigJimFinn » Thu May 23, 2019 2:18 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:You just never know. Sorry for the lengthy post but......

------

Also Zoran Dragic Went undrafted and later made last years NBA all star game.

This is just one draft and one where we've had 8 years to look back on at this point. But, they're all similar in many ways. If the Bulls could just find the Kawhi or Klay, JB or Kemba of this draft we would be in great shape, right?


Excellent post Johnny!

Unfortunately I am too much of a pedantic nerd to not correct the last name on your list.
The NBA veteran and All Star last season is Goran Dragic, drafted in 2008 by the Spurs (d'oh) at #45. So he does support your general case, but his kid brother Zoran played a career total of 75 minutes in the NBA.

The thing is, there is a reason why Spurs have been by far the most successful team with late and 2nd round picks. You need a developed capacity for scouting and analysis to identify them, a brave and robust fact-driven decision making process to actually pick them and then the system to coach and develop players who do not enter the league ready to start and shine from day 1. Bulls have been fairly successful when it comes to drafting college players, but overall I see no evidence of such system built for success. The infamous decision to skip the top talent camp in Europe has stuck in mind.
cjbulls
Analyst
Posts: 3,584
And1: 1,301
Joined: Jun 26, 2018

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#394 » by cjbulls » Thu May 23, 2019 2:26 pm

Reddish needs work, but where? Is it softness, confidence, environment, health, role, something else? If the right team gets him and knows how to put him in the right position, he will be worth whatever pick he's taken at. The question is what teams are capable of recognizing the issue and providing the right environment to overcome it. The eye test is obviously flawed in recognizing success, but it is accurate about potential.

I totally understand saying the Bulls shouldn't take the risk, or the FO is incapable of recognizing/nurturing player development, but don't tell me the guy cannot be good because all of the physical tools are there.
User avatar
Ferulci
Starter
Posts: 2,477
And1: 2,540
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Location: France

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#395 » by Ferulci » Thu May 23, 2019 2:57 pm

DuckIII wrote:
Ferulci wrote:It's that time of the year where we convince ourselves that Cam Reddish could be a good pick right ?
He's a workout beast. Let's hope that someone draft him before us, before I don't want him anywhere near the Bulls. We have a season-long of evidences that he's a bigger Mclemore.
"But but Zion took all the spotlight"
Please check his stats while Zion was injured.


I get your point, but this is what happens when you fall to 7th in what most of us believe to be a draft that falls off after 6. You start to consider riskier options.

Reddish’s freshman year at Duke was a shocker. His body, athleticism, form, and ball skills scream special talent. Then on the court it just wasn’t there. Little was similar though perhaps a little less extreme.

But guys who have questionable college seasons can develop in the NBA. I’m all in on taking a chance on the guys who might be much better than they produced, than on drafting low ceiling role players. I genuinely believe this is the last time we will draft this high for awhile barring Pelicans/Lakers like lotto luck.

Swing for the fences with fingers crossed. Be that Reddish, Little or Sekou (or “other”), I’m taking that chance on a wing.

It could blow up in your face. But I feel like “missing” on the pick is likely only going to cost us a role player we could have drafted instead, and those will be available in free agency.


I agree with the "high risk/high reward" strategy, especially in this draft, especially at that position.
But, both my eyes and the datas screams hell no to me.
- Where was the last time that a allstar player had a college career as bad as Cam. In some cases, it is that the player was cast in a bad role (WCJ pairing with Bagley probably cost him a drop in the draft), sometimes its minutes (Devin Booker), sometimes it was a lingering injury (Tatum IIIRC), sometimes the player is too raw (Westbrook). But Reddish had all of this : he had minutes, the opportunity to play with and off ball and to display his skills on several occasions. He was on offense, and mediocre on defense.
- Let's say his college year was a fluke. The red flags he had before all of this (coasting, lack of toughness, too deferring, play small for his size) already are very concerning to me. That's the recipe for your Anthony Randolph, your Perry Jones or your Andrew Wiggins.

I hope to be wrong on this and wish no ill on the kid. He has all the physical tools in the world, but I just can't see a realistic path to stardom for Cam.
buckboy wrote:
jg77 wrote:Lavine is my dark horse MVP candidate.

That is the darkest horse that has ever galloped.
drosestruts
General Manager
Posts: 9,180
And1: 4,302
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
 

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#396 » by drosestruts » Thu May 23, 2019 3:01 pm

BigUps wrote:
Read on Twitter


We don't need him from a roster build standpoint, but he intrigues me. I'll be interested to see how his draft process goes.


I disagree that we don't need Goga, our team has no depth. I feel like Goga's going to be that guy who makes an immediate impact who was just under everyone's nose the whole time. Has the MVP of his league and the Eruoleague Rising Star award winner, plenty of people are aware of Goga's talent and ability even at his young age.

Yet, so many want to fall in love with flawed prospects who have "NBA bodies".

I don't see the need to be cute or "outsmart" everyone else, guys like Goga and Hunter are proven talents that make positive impacts to winning basketball.
User avatar
JohnnyKILLroy
RealGM
Posts: 12,465
And1: 4,650
Joined: Jun 18, 2008
Location: Fountain Valley- A nice place to live
       

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#397 » by JohnnyKILLroy » Thu May 23, 2019 3:04 pm

cjbulls wrote:Reddish needs work, but where? Is it softness, confidence, environment, health, role, something else? If the right team gets him and knows how to put him in the right position, he will be worth whatever pick he's taken at. The question is what teams are capable of recognizing the issue and providing the right environment to overcome it. The eye test is obviously flawed in recognizing success, but it is accurate about potential.

I totally understand saying the Bulls shouldn't take the risk, or the FO is incapable of recognizing/nurturing player development, but don't tell me the guy cannot be good because all of the physical tools are there.


He's not good and the physical tools are there. What does that tell you?

I don't think he has it either upstairs or he's just not dog enough to impose his will, maybe both.
What is happiness? It's a moment before you need more happiness.” — Don Draper
User avatar
TheSuzerain
RealGM
Posts: 17,390
And1: 11,404
Joined: Mar 29, 2012

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#398 » by TheSuzerain » Thu May 23, 2019 3:11 pm

Reddish's athleticism doesn't scream special talent at all. That's simply wrong.
cjbulls
Analyst
Posts: 3,584
And1: 1,301
Joined: Jun 26, 2018

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#399 » by cjbulls » Thu May 23, 2019 3:19 pm

JohnnyKILLroy wrote:
cjbulls wrote:Reddish needs work, but where? Is it softness, confidence, environment, health, role, something else? If the right team gets him and knows how to put him in the right position, he will be worth whatever pick he's taken at. The question is what teams are capable of recognizing the issue and providing the right environment to overcome it. The eye test is obviously flawed in recognizing success, but it is accurate about potential.

I totally understand saying the Bulls shouldn't take the risk, or the FO is incapable of recognizing/nurturing player development, but don't tell me the guy cannot be good because all of the physical tools are there.


He's not good and the physical tools are there. What does that tell you?

I don't think he has it either upstairs or he's just not dog enough to impose his will, maybe both.


Those are both distinct possibilities. It could also be because he played out position at Duke (point guard in HS to spot up shooter in college), he was injured (I'm not buying), he struggled with Zion/Reddish blowing up while he was the third wheel, he hated college and/or Durham, or he had personal things going on. I'm not pretending like I know, and each situation requires a different response from whatever team drafts him.
User avatar
Benedict Miller
General Manager
Posts: 9,656
And1: 2,082
Joined: Mar 11, 2002
Location: FLY St.
     

Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#400 » by Benedict Miller » Thu May 23, 2019 3:45 pm

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:
Read on Twitter


Found this interesting.


Nailed it

Return to Chicago Bulls