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DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do

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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#141 » by the_process » Fri May 24, 2019 2:19 am

I think that Ben Simmons will sign his rookie extension almost no matter where he is. And whoever is trading for him will clearly offer him his max, whether that’s 25% or 30%.

Point being, if you decide to deal Simmons, you look for the best deal and don’t worry about what his reaction is.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#142 » by youngcrev » Fri May 24, 2019 2:20 am

76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:So the more I think about it, the more necessity is it to trade Ben for AD if both jimmy and tobias walks.


:lol: You should of stopped thinking about it a while ago then...

What's the logic there? If your win now guys leave, we should try to win now even harder by trading for a guy that doesn't fit that well with Embiid and has only one year of team control contractually?


I think of it this way. I’m just capitalizing on the opportunity when you have Ben’s value is one of its highest (considering that he will be overpaid at somepoint) and there’s an availability of a superstar is now.

I can’t see other superstars that is a better fit with Biid like Kawhi or KD being available at the near future.


But that superstar is an awful fit with your current one and would almost definitely walk after the year.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#143 » by 76ciology » Fri May 24, 2019 2:28 am

youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
:lol: You should of stopped thinking about it a while ago then...

What's the logic there? If your win now guys leave, we should try to win now even harder by trading for a guy that doesn't fit that well with Embiid and has only one year of team control contractually?


I think of it this way. I’m just capitalizing on the opportunity when you have Ben’s value is one of its highest (considering that he will be overpaid at somepoint) and there’s an availability of a superstar is now.

I can’t see other superstars that is a better fit with Biid like Kawhi or KD being available at the near future.


But that superstar is an awful fit with your current one and would almost definitely walk after the year.


All players can walk away. Look at the Warriors, they can be one of the best location, best pay and win the championship while KD is like 50-50 in re-signing with them.

AD is still under contract. But he can do all his drama into forcing his way to LA.

Jimmy and Tobias never had this chance to win a championship, we gave it to them. And they’re looking to play with Brooklyn and Clippers?

Sure we got the rights for Ben after his rookie contract is up, but look at KP. He threatened to play in europe if Knicks dont trade him. Klutch can strong arm their way into trading Ben to a team or a city he wants.

Commitment from players is f’d up. That the league has to clean this mess.

Regarding fit, Ben is like the worst possible fit for Embiid. And yet we made it work. AD is a better fit for Biid than Ben. While when Biid is off the floor, we can finally have a guy who can carry a team and not experience that drop off that caused us to lose the series against the Raps.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#144 » by the_process » Fri May 24, 2019 2:40 am

76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
I think of it this way. I’m just capitalizing on the opportunity when you have Ben’s value is one of its highest (considering that he will be overpaid at somepoint) and there’s an availability of a superstar is now.

I can’t see other superstars that is a better fit with Biid like Kawhi or KD being available at the near future.


But that superstar is an awful fit with your current one and would almost definitely walk after the year.


All players can walk away. Look at the Warriors, they can be one of the best location, best pay and win the championship while KD is like 50-50 in re-signing with them.

AD is still under contract. But he can do all his drama into forcing his way to LA.

Jimmy and Tobias never had this chance to win a championship, we gave it to them. And they’re looking to play with Brooklyn and Clippers?

Sure we got the rights for Ben after his rookie contract is up, but look at KP. He threatened to play in europe if Knicks dont trade him. Klutch can strong arm their way into trading Ben to a team or a city he wants.

Commitment from players is f’d up. That the league has to clean this mess.

Regarding fit, Ben is like the worst possible fit for Embiid. And yet we made it work. AD is a better fit for Biid than Ben. While when Biid is off the floor, we can finally have a guy who can carry a team and not experience that drop off that caused us to lose the series against the Raps.


To be fair, we don’t really know what Jimmy or Tobias is thinking. NBA media is prone to wild, ill informed speculation; usually centered around the LA and NY teams.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#145 » by James40 » Fri May 24, 2019 2:43 am

76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
I think of it this way. I’m just capitalizing on the opportunity when you have Ben’s value is one of its highest (considering that he will be overpaid at somepoint) and there’s an availability of a superstar is now.

I can’t see other superstars that is a better fit with Biid like Kawhi or KD being available at the near future.


But that superstar is an awful fit with your current one and would almost definitely walk after the year.


All players can walk away. Look at the Warriors, they can be one of the best location, best pay and win the championship while KD is like 50-50 in re-signing with them.

AD is still under contract. But he can do all his drama into forcing his way to LA.

Jimmy and Tobias never had this chance to win a championship, we gave it to them. And they’re looking to play with Brooklyn and Clippers?

Sure we got the rights for Ben after his rookie contract is up, but look at KP. He threatened to play in europe if Knicks dont trade him. Klutch can strong arm their way into trading Ben to a team or a city he wants.

Commitment from players is f’d up. That the league has to clean this mess.

Regarding fit, Ben is like the worst possible fit for Embiid. And yet we made it work. AD is a better fit for Biid than Ben. While when Biid is off the floor, we can finally have a guy who can carry a team and not experience that drop off that caused us to lose the series against the Raps.


You never know, everyone was sure Paul George was heading to LA, and a lot of folks think Kawhi will leave Toronto.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#146 » by Mik317 » Fri May 24, 2019 2:54 am

the_process wrote:I think that Ben Simmons will sign his rookie extension almost no matter where he is. And whoever is trading for him will clearly offer him his max, whether that’s 25% or 30%.

Point being, if you decide to deal Simmons, you look for the best deal and don’t worry about what his reaction is.

We may not care but whatever team we trade him to will.

and that will probably make the deal less valuable.

I'd do a Murray and pieces deal but I don't think Denver would; this doesn't mean i think Ben is worthless or **** but moresothe reality of his contract and honestly his current game. It makes dealing him not as easy as one may think.

If Elton can find a great deal then hell yeah do that **** fam. That even goes for Embiid honestly...but I think the nature of the current status of each guy makes the potential return probably not worth it in terms of longterm atm. I think the upside of keeping both still outweighs any reasonable return IMO. That obviously changes as time goes on of course... also it always takes one overzealous GM/Owner to throw out a Billy King deal outta nowhere..sooooooo
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#147 » by 76ciology » Fri May 24, 2019 3:09 am

Disaster FA scenario. I dont mind adjusting our sails and going after fit to maintain winnability. This may mean trading players with poor fit for less talented players with better fit.

Im talking about disaster fa scenario ok? Like desperation.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#148 » by youngcrev » Fri May 24, 2019 3:16 am

76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
I think of it this way. I’m just capitalizing on the opportunity when you have Ben’s value is one of its highest (considering that he will be overpaid at somepoint) and there’s an availability of a superstar is now.

I can’t see other superstars that is a better fit with Biid like Kawhi or KD being available at the near future.


But that superstar is an awful fit with your current one and would almost definitely walk after the year.


All players can walk away. Look at the Warriors, they can be one of the best location, best pay and win the championship while KD is like 50-50 in re-signing with them.

AD is still under contract. But he can do all his drama into forcing his way to LA.

Jimmy and Tobias never had this chance to win a championship, we gave it to them. And they’re looking to play with Brooklyn and Clippers?

Sure we got the rights for Ben after his rookie contract is up, but look at KP. He threatened to play in europe if Knicks dont trade him. Klutch can strong arm their way into trading Ben to a team or a city he wants.

Commitment from players is f’d up. That the league has to clean this mess.

Regarding fit, Ben is like the worst possible fit for Embiid. And yet we made it work. AD is a better fit for Biid than Ben. While when Biid is off the floor, we can finally have a guy who can carry a team and not experience that drop off that caused us to lose the series against the Raps.


Sure. And the 20th pick in the draft could turn out to be a better player than the 3rd, that doesn't make it a good idea to swap them. All players can walk, some are just far more likely to do so. And with Davis you can say almost definitely that he'd be gone, while Ben you can almost definitely say he'll sign his next contract here.

As for Ben being a worse fit with Jo than Davis, I disagree. Ben's shooting makes him a wonky fit anywhere, particularly with a post heavy big, but Davis and Embiid would just get in each other's way. Ben may get in the way, but he's a pass first guy that has no issue differing. He's also obviously a better defensive fit.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#149 » by 76ciology » Fri May 24, 2019 3:24 am

youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
But that superstar is an awful fit with your current one and would almost definitely walk after the year.


All players can walk away. Look at the Warriors, they can be one of the best location, best pay and win the championship while KD is like 50-50 in re-signing with them.

AD is still under contract. But he can do all his drama into forcing his way to LA.

Jimmy and Tobias never had this chance to win a championship, we gave it to them. And they’re looking to play with Brooklyn and Clippers?

Sure we got the rights for Ben after his rookie contract is up, but look at KP. He threatened to play in europe if Knicks dont trade him. Klutch can strong arm their way into trading Ben to a team or a city he wants.

Commitment from players is f’d up. That the league has to clean this mess.

Regarding fit, Ben is like the worst possible fit for Embiid. And yet we made it work. AD is a better fit for Biid than Ben. While when Biid is off the floor, we can finally have a guy who can carry a team and not experience that drop off that caused us to lose the series against the Raps.


Sure. And the 20th pick in the draft could turn out to be a better player than the 3rd, that doesn't make it a good idea to swap them. All players can walk, some are just far more likely to do so. And with Davis you can say almost definitely that he'd be gone, while Ben you can almost definitely say he'll sign his next contract here.

As for Ben being a worse fit with Jo than Davis, I disagree. Ben's shooting makes him a wonky fit anywhere, particularly with a post heavy big, but Davis and Embiid would just get in each other's way. Ben may get in the way, but he's a pass first guy that has no issue differing. He's also obviously a better defensive fit.


So you mean TJ Mcconnell is a better fit with Jo than AD on offense, just because he WILL pass? AD can space the floor for Biid. AD is a great mid range shooter and has been developing his 3pt shot. AD is a willing passer on offense, this is not like he has bad hands like Nerlens.

You know that two man game Ben&Biid was running during their first year? DMC-AD was running the same action. It was working because AD has a mid range game and the length to pass it over 1-2 defenders.

Defensively, teams like to pull Biid away by a stretch 5. That wont work if you have a secondary elite rim protector who can rotate to the paint in AD. While we can still have an elite rim protector when Biid is on the bench.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#150 » by youngcrev » Fri May 24, 2019 9:57 am

76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
All players can walk away. Look at the Warriors, they can be one of the best location, best pay and win the championship while KD is like 50-50 in re-signing with them.

AD is still under contract. But he can do all his drama into forcing his way to LA.

Jimmy and Tobias never had this chance to win a championship, we gave it to them. And they’re looking to play with Brooklyn and Clippers?

Sure we got the rights for Ben after his rookie contract is up, but look at KP. He threatened to play in europe if Knicks dont trade him. Klutch can strong arm their way into trading Ben to a team or a city he wants.

Commitment from players is f’d up. That the league has to clean this mess.

Regarding fit, Ben is like the worst possible fit for Embiid. And yet we made it work. AD is a better fit for Biid than Ben. While when Biid is off the floor, we can finally have a guy who can carry a team and not experience that drop off that caused us to lose the series against the Raps.


Sure. And the 20th pick in the draft could turn out to be a better player than the 3rd, that doesn't make it a good idea to swap them. All players can walk, some are just far more likely to do so. And with Davis you can say almost definitely that he'd be gone, while Ben you can almost definitely say he'll sign his next contract here.

As for Ben being a worse fit with Jo than Davis, I disagree. Ben's shooting makes him a wonky fit anywhere, particularly with a post heavy big, but Davis and Embiid would just get in each other's way. Ben may get in the way, but he's a pass first guy that has no issue differing. He's also obviously a better defensive fit.


So you mean TJ Mcconnell is a better fit with Jo than AD on offense, just because he WILL pass? AD can space the floor for Biid. AD is a great mid range shooter and has been developing his 3pt shot. AD is a willing passer on offense, this is not like he has bad hands like Nerlens.

You know that two man game Ben&Biid was running during their first year? DMC-AD was running the same action. It was working because AD has a mid range game and the length to pass it over 1-2 defenders.

Defensively, teams like to pull Biid away by a stretch 5. That wont work if you have a secondary elite rim protector who can rotate to the paint in AD. While we can still have an elite rim protector when Biid is on the bench.


He is in terms of fully utilizing each players skillset.

The Pelicans were better with Mirotic than they were with Cousins. I don't think 2 center lineups work in this era. Playing through 1 is tough enough. Embiid and Davis would get in each other's way. They like to occupy the same spots on the floor
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#151 » by Kobblehead » Fri May 24, 2019 12:10 pm

Anthony Davis doesn't space the floor. He takes slightly less threes than Jimmy Butler (who also doesn't space the floor).

If you think Davis would sign an extension here, you trade Embiid for him (not Ben). It doesn't make sense to have 2 bigs.

Use Ben to get ballhandler that can score.

Booker, Murray, Beal, Lavine, etc.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#152 » by 76ciology » Fri May 24, 2019 12:27 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Anthony Davis doesn't space the floor. He takes slightly less threes than Jimmy Butler (who also doesn't space the floor).

If you think Davis would sign an extension here, you trade Embiid for him (not Ben). It doesn't make sense to have 2 bigs.

Use Ben to get ballhandler that can score.

Booker, Murray, Beal, Lavine, etc.


But AD compliments Biid better than Ben?

AD can space the floor better than Ben, is a better defensive player and a the better player who can lead a 5 man unit without Biid, right?

And since its a disaster scenario, I can better space the floor by replacing Butler with a floor spacer like Jeremy Lamb or someone.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#153 » by Kobblehead » Fri May 24, 2019 12:35 pm

"Better fitting than Ben, but still awful in it of itself" isn't what we should be striving for, in my opinion.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#154 » by 76ciology » Fri May 24, 2019 12:38 pm

Kobblehead wrote:"Better fitting than Ben, but still awful in it of itself" isn't what we should be striving for, in my opinion.

Ok. What if Ben for KAT. Now that guy can shoot and you almost traded Biid for him. :lol:
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#155 » by Kobblehead » Fri May 24, 2019 12:57 pm

Again, two bigs makes no sense to me.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#156 » by Bum Adebayo » Fri May 24, 2019 1:10 pm

Yeah, two bigs is bad but if it were two guards then all is fine, it is all about dat modarn game.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#157 » by Negrodamus » Fri May 24, 2019 2:22 pm

It’s about winning, not playing the game the way certain people want it to be played.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#158 » by Bum Adebayo » Fri May 24, 2019 4:06 pm

Two bigs can win, so no issue in that regard. What matters is how good players are, if you have two elite bigs there is no reason why you cant win, just like if you have two elite guards you can also win. Of course, you would need to surround them with good role players but this fits with any player. The idea that you can't win with your best players being bigs is just a false narrative, just like when the narrative was that you can't win with your PG as your best player, and then Curry happened. People just like to follow trends.
Also, I think people will find sooner than later that we've had an abnormally talented pool of guards in last 10 to 12 years, similar to how many abnormally talented centers were in the past.
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#159 » by PhillyFan11 » Fri May 24, 2019 4:19 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:Two bigs can win, so no issue in that regard. What matters is how good players are, if you have two elite bigs there is no reason why you cant win, just like if you have two elite guards you can also win. Of course, you would need to surround them with good role players but this fits with any player. The idea that you can't win with your best players being bigs is just a false narrative, just like when the narrative was that you can't win with your PG as your best player, and then Curry happened. People just like to follow trends.
Also, I think people will find sooner than later that we've had an abnormally talented pool of guards in last 10 to 12 years, similar to how many abnormally talented centers were in the past.


We just saw our superstar big get shutdown because he can’t create his own shot.

It’s a guard/iso driven league at this point. A team needs a go to scoring option that can create their own shot in almost any situation. Building a team around 2 big men in 2019/2020 is pretty close to purposely handcuffing yourself
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Re: DISASTER FA Scenario... what do you do 

Post#160 » by Negrodamus » Fri May 24, 2019 4:21 pm

The only championship team in the past 20 years that you could point to as an example of the two best players being big men is the Spurs in 99, when David Robinson had to take a major back seat to Duncan in the twilight of his career. I don't know how far back you want to go, but there has rarely been a trend where the two best players on a championship team are the front court in the modern era.

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