Ghost of Kleine's ideas and thoughts

[Ghost of Kleine]

Empire of the Suns does an evaluation of our 4 current wings, and rates them in 5 statistical categories with respect to their value to our team.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1949728/empire-of-the-suns-wing-reset-for-suns-heading-into-2019-offseason/ .

It's a really good read, enjoy.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Empire of the Suns does an evaluation of our 4 current wings, and rates them in 5 statistical categories with respect to their value to our team.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1949728/empire-of-the-suns-wing-reset-for-suns-heading-into-2019-offseason/ .

It's a really good read, enjoy.

I'm a touch confused why booker isn't considered a wing, unless they consider him a PG then bright side should stop writing articles about needing a PG

My lable would be ball handling wing.

They give Jackson a little too much defensive credit, he's not that good. But probably a little low on his shooting rankings as he's improved as a spot up 3pt guy.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[bigfoot]

Empire of the Suns does an evaluation of our 4 current wings, and rates them in 5 statistical categories with respect to their value to our team.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1949728/empire-of-the-suns-wing-reset-for-suns-heading-into-2019-offseason/ .

It's a really good read, enjoy.

I'm a touch confused why booker isn't considered a wing, unless they consider him a PG then bright side should stop writing articles about needing a PG

My lable would be ball handling wing.

They give Jackson a little too much defensive credit, he's not that good. But probably a little low on his shooting rankings as he's improved as a spot up 3pt guy.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

What a crap article. There is clear hate for TJ. Just use RPM and rank them ... it's not even close

Bridges -0.62 ... 31st for SF in NBA
Warren -0.98 ... 35th
Oubre -1.18 ... 42st
Jackson -3.56 ... 85th out of 92 Small forwards

They way over valued Jackson. His stupidity off the court mimics his play on the court.

FYI: Booker is 0.6 and 11th best shooting guard in the league.

[bigfoot]

Value over replacement player (VORP) advanced stat

Booker 1.6 (1st on team)
Bridges 1.2 (3rd on team)
Oubre 0.2 (5th on team)
Warren 0.1 (7th on team)
Jackson -1.4 (24 on team out of 24 players)

Again Josh is not as good as people think ... last in Box +/- (BPM) and win shares per 48 minutes. His problems include

1) Ball watching on defense and losing his man
2) Arguing with the refs too much
3) Excessive turnovers
4) Crappy finishing at the rim
5) His shot is more likely to be blocked than any other player on team
6) Get his highlight blocks because he loses his man too often on defense
7) Poor assist to turnover ratio
8) Excessive usage rate
9) Poor shooter and free throw shooter

[bwgood77]

Empire of the Suns does an evaluation of our 4 current wings, and rates them in 5 statistical categories with respect to their value to our team.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1949728/empire-of-the-suns-wing-reset-for-suns-heading-into-2019-offseason/ .

It's a really good read, enjoy.

I'm a touch confused why booker isn't considered a wing, unless they consider him a PG then bright side should stop writing articles about needing a PG

My lable would be ball handling wing.

They give Jackson a little too much defensive credit, he's not that good. But probably a little low on his shooting rankings as he's improved as a spot up 3pt guy.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

What a crap article. There is clear hate for TJ. Just use RPM and rank them ... it's not even close

Bridges -0.62 ... 31st for SF in NBA
Warren -0.98 ... 35th
Oubre -1.18 ... 42st
Jackson -3.56 ... 85th out of 92 Small forwards

They way over valued Jackson. His stupidity off the court mimics his play on the court.

FYI: Booker is 0.6 and 11th best shooting guard in the league.

I agree..that was a trash article. The scoring one, putting TJ below Oubre was dumb. Then penalizing TJ for floor stretching because he was also good at mid range was ridiculously pathetic. Then they decided to put two categories for defense that were similar and rated him way below others in those. Now I will say he should be below everyone on those but first, they should have only had one category for that, and Bridges should be WAY ahead of the others when you consider everything about defense. There is about as much separation between Bridges and Oubre/Jackson D than there is in their's and TJ's. TJ was actually right with Jackson in DRPM and well ahead of Oubre.

Though they should have had another cat in playmaking or setting up others. In those Oubre and TJ would have been last.

It's fairly obvious the media doesn't like Warren because he isn't media friendly and it somehow drastically impacts their writing. It doesn't with the widely respected ones like Gina Mizell, who is great. But Duane Rankin woudn't stoop there either. They don't take things personally and are objective. Most of the bloggers, azsports, etc, really take it personally though. It's quite evident in the way the write. You can tell when things are objective.

[jcsunsfan]

Value over replacement player (VORP) advanced stat

Booker 1.6 (1st on team)
Bridges 1.2 (3rd on team)
Oubre 0.2 (5th on team)
Warren 0.1 (7th on team)
Jackson -1.4 (24 on team out of 24 players)

Again Josh is not as good as people think ... last in Box +/- (BPM) and win shares per 48 minutes. His problems include

1) Ball watching on defense and losing his man
2) Arguing with the refs too much
3) Excessive turnovers
4) Crappy finishing at the rim
5) His shot is more likely to be blocked than any other player on team
6) Get his highlight blocks because he loses his man too often on defense
7) Poor assist to turnover ratio
8) Excessive usage rate
9) Poor shooter and free throw shooter

I am curious about how VORP is figured. Would it not make sense that if the player that replaces you on the court is really bad, or the player that replaces you is really good, then that number could be skewed? Please pardon my ignorance on this stat. For instance, if Booker is replaced by Daniels, and Jackson's replacement is Mikal--that number could be a little misleading.

[bigfoot]

Value over replacement player (VORP) advanced stat

Booker 1.6 (1st on team)
Bridges 1.2 (3rd on team)
Oubre 0.2 (5th on team)
Warren 0.1 (7th on team)
Jackson -1.4 (24 on team out of 24 players)

Again Josh is not as good as people think ... last in Box +/- (BPM) and win shares per 48 minutes. His problems include

1) Ball watching on defense and losing his man
2) Arguing with the refs too much
3) Excessive turnovers
4) Crappy finishing at the rim
5) His shot is more likely to be blocked than any other player on team
6) Get his highlight blocks because he loses his man too often on defense
7) Poor assist to turnover ratio
8) Excessive usage rate
9) Poor shooter and free throw shooter

I am curious about how VORP is figured. Would it not make sense that if the player that replaces you on the court is really bad, or the player that replaces you is really good, then that number could be skewed? Please pardon my ignorance on this stat. For instance, if Booker is replaced by Daniels, and Jackson's replacement is Mikal--that number could be a little misleading.

VORP is calculated based off of a league wide replacement player with an assumed -2.0 BPM. The formula is based on the amount of time the Jackson is on the court as well as the number of games played. VORP = [BPM – (-2.0)] * (% of minutes played)*(team games/82). This yields the number of points the player is producing over a replacement player, per 100 TEAM possessions over an entire season. So basically Jackson is -1.4 points worse when being compared to a 2018/2019 replacement players from this list

http://bkref.com/tiny/Echyq

Another example based on playing time. Jackson had a BPM of -4.8 (14th on the team) while Bender had a BPM of -3.4. Jackson overall negative impact on the team was larger because he played more minutes. His VORP was -1.4 while Bender's was only -0.3 points.

In his two seasons Jackson has had some of the worst advanced metric on the Suns. What is more frightening is they are some of the worst in the league as well. People are enamored with some of his uber athletic defensive plays but when you start looking at things like 1) the number of times his shot is blocked, 2) his shooting percentages around the rim, 3) turnover percentage compared to the rest of the team, 4) and his free throw and overall shooting percentages then you start to realize there are other problems with his game. People tend to only watch Jackson when he has the ball in his hands or when he makes a defensive play recovering from ball watching. More folks need to watch his off the ball defense. He gets killed with backdoor cuts often or sags off his man too much leading to wide open threes.

[lilfishi22]

Empire of the Suns does an evaluation of our 4 current wings, and rates them in 5 statistical categories with respect to their value to our team.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1949728/empire-of-the-suns-wing-reset-for-suns-heading-into-2019-offseason/ .

It's a really good read, enjoy.

I disagree with their rankings on TJ completely

There's no way Jackson is not only higher (by 5 pts) than Warren but within 3 pts of Oubre.

Offensive creation: How is TJ only 0.5pts higher than Bridges and a whole point less than Oubre when he's a certified 20ppg scorer in this league?

Spacing the floor: Bridges is almost exclusively a floor spacer at this stage in his career but not only is TJ the best catch and shoot scorer on the team (better than Booker), he's also the best 3PT shooter on this team.

Switchability (on D): I somewhat agree that he's the worst among the 3 but to not be within 3pts of any of the other 3 just tells me how poor their whole rating system is. How is TJ 4.5pts worse than JJ on switchability but only 1pt better than JJ on spacing the floor?!

Defensive ability: Again, I agree TJ is the worst of the bunch but JJ and Oubre haven't proven to be twice the defender TJ is which according to the rating system, they are.

Control and Contract value: Mostly agree with it but I do think with TJ locked into a pretty good value contract, he should be ranked higher than JJ and Oubre who's future pay rises (and future) is uncertain.

[MathiasPW]

Offseason writing: when you create random BS with the intent of making fans mad and generate flow.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY these guys saw their final ranking and thought "yeah, this seems fair". It was probably more "Oh, this will surely gather some attention!"