2019 NBA Finals Thread, Part 1 | Golden State Warriors vs Toronto Raptors

[HiMyNameIsTrey]

Couldn’t ask for a better finals matchup

[xAIRNESSx]

Feels unreal to be here. This franchise has been through so much.

[Hero]

Great to see.

Just so you know Raptors fans, if you go over to the "saltics" board, you'll see nothing but kind words and support for your team.

Be humble and proud. You got a tall task

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[RaptorsLife]

The only reason raptors fans called Celtics. Saltines is because y’all been calling raptors, Craptors for years and years lol

[KingFox]

Man, Kawhi punked Giannis in that one

Raptor roleplayers will have to play out of their minds in this warrior series, but not get caught up in a three point contest of any kind. Gasol and Ibaka in particular, need to be very aggressive.

[KingFox]

Who does kawhi Guard with Durant out?

I would put him on curry single coverage all series.

right. And be as physical as possible with the guy

Or just take Klay completely out of it. Dude isn’t a good ball handler is he?

[on7on8]

Saltics is kind of funny lol

[kuchu]

Am I the only one who thinks that by the time the finals start, Raptors fans will already be asking for time off to attend the championship parade? People on RealGM are so giddy about the Raptors that the polls show that the Warriors are now clear underdogs. Given their recent playoffs struggles and their inability to win with just three all-stars, I'm not surprised. As a Warriors fan, the best thing that can happen is for the Raptors to also believe the hype and think that they are up against an inferior opponent.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Kawhi leonard coming in to these finals averaging 31/9/4 on 62% TS with elite defense and beating teams better than LeBron ever did in the east relative to their supporting cast. 4 wins away from the greatest playoff peak in NBA history. Being able to go to the finals with a franchise for the first time ever and defeat a team with 5 straight finals and doing it while putting up those numbers, GOAT playoff peak.

God, stop exaggerating. It's not even a top 10 postseason performance if you restrict it to one playoff run per player. 3.6 assists to 2.9 turnovers per game is what prevents Kawhi from entering the category of the absolute best offensive stars in history. His playmaking isn't very good and he doesn't have that much off ball gravity, so you're left with a guy whose primary value on offense comes from his isolation scoring.

By my calculations, Toronto is a +0.4 rORTG team in this postseason (meaning adjusting Toronto's offensive performance for level of defense played). That's absolutely nothing special. LeBron has led historically great offenses in the postseason throughout his career while also providing elite defense during his prime. And stop completely ignoring that Kawhi has an amazing cast that went 17-5 in games he missed during the season. With Lowry on the court and Kawhi off the court in the regular season and playoffs, Toronto is +11.7. With Kawhi on the court and Lowry off the court, Toronto is +5.1. With both on, the Raptors are +10.4. What that shows is Lowry's value in running an offense can't be understated. And then you look at the fact that Kawhi's team has a great defender at literally every position you look. Lowry, Green, Siakam, Gasol, Ibaka, and so on. Toronto is winning these games with their defense, because their offense has been very average as a whole, and on defense every guy is contributing. It's not Kawhi just carrying the load.

That's not to say Kawhi isn't having a great postseason run but it's damn annoying to see how caught up in the moment people are. Kawhi's 8.8 postseason BPM this year wouldn't even rank in the top 30 all time of guys who logged over 500 minutes in the postseason. LeBron actually has 9 seasons ranking ahead of Kawhi in that regard. BPM isn't the be-all and end-all, but when you add in the fact that Kawhi isn't exactly leading that great of an offense and has an elite defensive supporting cast beside him, it's not the GOAT run you're trying to paint it to be.

The level of competition Kawhi has faced in the playoffs has been tougher than LeBron ever has in the east and that's what makes it most impressive for me. 76ers with their core had one of the best net ratings of all time, bucks had one of the best reg seasons of all time. Kawhi eliminated both of them without having another superstar on his team. I agree this raptors team is great defensively but its the offense that Kawhi is carrying due to all the defensive pressure he is facing.

Marc gasol is washed up offensively and has turned into a spot up shooter, below average offensive from him at this stage of his career.

Siakam has been extremely inconsistent offensively outside of the 1st round.

Green is terrible all playoffs long

Lowry has had inconsistent shooting.

Kawhi is facing so much defensive pressure from teams that LeBron with Irving-wade or curry with Klay or Jordan with Pippen. He doesn't have an offensive star next to him and is carrying a huge load, yet his efficiency hasn't declined at all.

You are also forgetting how clutch Leonard has been in these playoffs as well.

- 3 point shot over Embiid with less than a minute left to go up 4 points in game 4

-buzzer beater over Embiid to win series in game 7

-took over the game and went off in the 4th quarter game 5 on the road vs Giannis

You are also overlooking the individual dominance of the MVP in the ECF, we have never seen something like it besides hakeem with Drob and LeBron with curry. The adjustment of switching kawhi on to Giannis was the main factor for their defensive turn around, after they switched kawhi on to Giannis in game 3 they would never lose again.

If you combine all this on top of beating warriors the greatest roster ever put together and doing it with a first ever finals team, I don't see how any other player can be put over Kawhi.

[dred926]

warriors in 5

wanna bet on it? I got the raptors in 6 or 7 .... Looney wont be a factor here the same way he was vs portland.. Ibaka and gasol wont be stupid enough to let draymond green go..


Lowry will be a key factor for this series.. I believe he is a better defender than lillard and CJ ...

Danny green hasnt been effective.. he is going to score 10-15 points in any of these games.

and then of course Kawhi he is the best 2 way player for this series.

[xfactor99]

Kawhi leonard coming in to these finals averaging 31/9/4 on 62% TS with elite defense and beating teams better than LeBron ever did in the east relative to their supporting cast. 4 wins away from the greatest playoff peak in NBA history. Being able to go to the finals with a franchise for the first time ever and defeat a team with 5 straight finals and doing it while putting up those numbers, GOAT playoff peak.

God, stop exaggerating. It's not even a top 10 postseason performance if you restrict it to one playoff run per player. 3.6 assists to 2.9 turnovers per game is what prevents Kawhi from entering the category of the absolute best offensive stars in history. His playmaking isn't very good and he doesn't have that much off ball gravity, so you're left with a guy whose primary value on offense comes from his isolation scoring.

By my calculations, Toronto is a +0.4 rORTG team in this postseason (meaning adjusting Toronto's offensive performance for level of defense played). That's absolutely nothing special. LeBron has led historically great offenses in the postseason throughout his career while also providing elite defense during his prime. And stop completely ignoring that Kawhi has an amazing cast that went 17-5 in games he missed during the season. With Lowry on the court and Kawhi off the court in the regular season and playoffs, Toronto is +11.7. With Kawhi on the court and Lowry off the court, Toronto is +5.1. With both on, the Raptors are +10.4. What that shows is Lowry's value in running an offense can't be understated. And then you look at the fact that Kawhi's team has a great defender at literally every position you look. Lowry, Green, Siakam, Gasol, Ibaka, and so on. Toronto is winning these games with their defense, because their offense has been very average as a whole, and on defense every guy is contributing. It's not Kawhi just carrying the load.

That's not to say Kawhi isn't having a great postseason run but it's damn annoying to see how caught up in the moment people are. Kawhi's 8.8 postseason BPM this year wouldn't even rank in the top 30 all time of guys who logged over 500 minutes in the postseason. LeBron actually has 9 seasons ranking ahead of Kawhi in that regard. BPM isn't the be-all and end-all, but when you add in the fact that Kawhi isn't exactly leading that great of an offense and has an elite defensive supporting cast beside him, it's not the GOAT run you're trying to paint it to be.

Good points all around, the statistical evidence does really seem to indicate that while Kawhi is an amazing isolation scorer, he's not really making his teammates better (although I must add his Game 5 and 6 were arguably his best playmaking games ever).

What do you think of this finals matchup? Here's our discussion on it a few weeks ago, but it was before KD got injured. Obviously that changes things quite a bit.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1832346&p=74715228#p74715591

[FlatearthZorro]

Gsw sweep. This isn't even close, raps don't have the guards to run around chasing the splash brothers

Yea, that's one of the things I think will be the most interesting about this series. They CANNOT put Kawhi on Curry or Klay, cause he will be exhausted in 20 mins flat. On the other hand Iggy and Klay can at least try to limit Kawhi. We will see tho.

[djsunyc]

Its good to be underdog again. I am feeling the 2015 vibes

underdogs? the whole world is picking the warriors.

[VinBaker6]

Raps in 5 or 6. I'm sorry but the Dubs can't handle our defense without KD. If KD plays Dubs win.

[yoyoboy]

Kawhi leonard coming in to these finals averaging 31/9/4 on 62% TS with elite defense and beating teams better than LeBron ever did in the east relative to their supporting cast. 4 wins away from the greatest playoff peak in NBA history. Being able to go to the finals with a franchise for the first time ever and defeat a team with 5 straight finals and doing it while putting up those numbers, GOAT playoff peak.

God, stop exaggerating. It's not even a top 10 postseason performance if you restrict it to one playoff run per player. 3.6 assists to 2.9 turnovers per game is what prevents Kawhi from entering the category of the absolute best offensive stars in history. His playmaking isn't very good and he doesn't have that much off ball gravity, so you're left with a guy whose primary value on offense comes from his isolation scoring.

By my calculations, Toronto is a +0.4 rORTG team in this postseason (meaning adjusting Toronto's offensive performance for level of defense played). That's absolutely nothing special. LeBron has led historically great offenses in the postseason throughout his career while also providing elite defense during his prime. And stop completely ignoring that Kawhi has an amazing cast that went 17-5 in games he missed during the season. With Lowry on the court and Kawhi off the court in the regular season and playoffs, Toronto is +11.7. With Kawhi on the court and Lowry off the court, Toronto is +5.1. With both on, the Raptors are +10.4. What that shows is Lowry's value in running an offense can't be understated. And then you look at the fact that Kawhi's team has a great defender at literally every position you look. Lowry, Green, Siakam, Gasol, Ibaka, and so on. Toronto is winning these games with their defense, because their offense has been very average as a whole, and on defense every guy is contributing. It's not Kawhi just carrying the load.

That's not to say Kawhi isn't having a great postseason run but it's damn annoying to see how caught up in the moment people are. Kawhi's 8.8 postseason BPM this year wouldn't even rank in the top 30 all time of guys who logged over 500 minutes in the postseason. LeBron actually has 9 seasons ranking ahead of Kawhi in that regard. BPM isn't the be-all and end-all, but when you add in the fact that Kawhi isn't exactly leading that great of an offense and has an elite defensive supporting cast beside him, it's not the GOAT run you're trying to paint it to be.

Good points all around, the statistical evidence does really seem to indicate that while Kawhi is an amazing isolation scorer, he's not really making his teammates better (although I must add his Game 5 and 6 were arguably his best playmaking games ever).

What do you think of this finals matchup? Here's our discussion on it a few weeks ago, but it was before KD got injured. Obviously that changes things quite a bit.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1832346&p=74715228#p74715591

To be honest, the only thing that changed with me is I think I really overrated Milwaukee by overlooking the cracks in their halfcourt offense. Brickwalling Giannis in the paint, daring guys like Bledsoe and Freak to shoot from three above the break, and having the speedy defenders that can recover to the three point line after helping defend on Giannis' drives basically shut down the Bucks' offense. Giannis isn't the quick decision maker/playmaker that guys like LeBron, Harden, and Draymond are, so Toronto's defenders had enough time to get to the Bucks' shooters after collapsing on Giannis. I still have the same reservations about Toronto's offense in a series against Golden State that I did then. Their offense is very average and I don't trust their shooters outside of Kawhi. Defensively I can definitely see them making life hell for GS. Siakam is a good defender to throw at Green because of his length and mobility. Lowry, Green, and even Kawhi (until KD returns) will take stabs at the Splash Bros. But Draymond plus competent defenders (which GS has) is enough for a fearsome playoff defense and I think GS' offense has the varied attacks and off ball movement that will be much harder to defend than the Bucks' predictable attack. Toronto absolutely should look to trap Curry in the pick 'n roll and stick Siakam to Draymond in order give themselves the best chance. But I see this going to Golden State in 6 max, even if KD doesn't play a game. Unless Boogie returns and drastically screws up the chemistry. I'm also kinda assuming Iggy will be mostly fine, too. What about you?

[Pan Jia Yuan]

Congrats to Raps fans for making the finals for the first time. Bookies over here have Dubs as heavy favorites but something in me is convinced that Kawhi can pull this off. 2017 WCF G1 rly left a lasting impression on me. Also dont underestimate HCA.

[Kabookalu]

Gsw sweep. This isn't even close, raps don't have the guards to run around chasing the splash brothers

Yea, that's one of the things I think will be the most interesting about this series. They CANNOT put Kawhi on Curry or Klay, cause he will be exhausted in 20 mins flat. On the other hand Iggy and Klay can at least try to limit Kawhi. We will see tho.

We're more than adept at keeping up with Golden State's off ball shooters because Masai has made sure to sign point guards that are good at fighting through screens. This is an area of defense that has never bothered us about the Warriors throughout the years.

[kuchu]

warriors in 5

wanna bet on it? I got the raptors in 6 or 7 .... Looney wont be a factor here the same way he was vs portland.. Ibaka and gasol wont be stupid enough to let draymond green go..

If you are confident, you should be able to win good money because the bookies are going all in on the Warriors.

[Geddy]

Raps in 5 or 6. I'm sorry but the Dubs can't handle our defense without KD. If KD plays Dubs win.

HO MAN

[FlatearthZorro]

Gsw sweep. This isn't even close, raps don't have the guards to run around chasing the splash brothers

Yea, that's one of the things I think will be the most interesting about this series. They CANNOT put Kawhi on Curry or Klay, cause he will be exhausted in 20 mins flat. On the other hand Iggy and Klay can at least try to limit Kawhi. We will see tho.

We're more than adept at keeping up with Golden State's off ball shooters because Masai has made sure to sign point guards that are good at fighting through screens. This is an area of defense that has never bothered us about the Warriors throughout the years.

Mm, Curry is the best shooter, ever, Klay is top 5, easily if not top 3. Curry's been averaging 37 points in the past 6 games. We aren't talking about some random dudes. Oh, and Green has been balling out of control and looked incredible in these 6 games as well.

Obviously, anything can happen, but it will be interesting to see how the Raptors guard Steph and Klay.