Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo

[thebuzzardman]

Convince me RJ is better than rookie Alonzo Trier.

Obviously age 19 vs 22, and height, at 6'7" vs 6'5", but convince me that RJ Barrett is a better player than Alonzo Trier showed himself to be as a rookie. Not seeing it. Eventually better? Sure. Better right now? I'd have to be convinced.

I see two players who are a somewhat ball dominant, who aggressively take it to the rim to score, who are scoring SG's with some PG vision but with tendencies to turn the ball over. Trier has the better jumper, better jumper off the dribble, better 3 point range and more adept with his off hand - his left, compared to RJ's right, which makes him even a more effective finisher than RJ, at the moment. Both have the tools to defend, but will drift on defense and do some dumb\disinterested stuff.

I'm still for drafting RJ, but I'm not penciling him in at starting SG like so many seem to want to do. Sure, Trier is 3/4 years older, but with that, he's just better. Right now. RJ probably comes off the bench behind him. If RJ isn't traded.

Drafting RJ isn't drafting a contribute now player, except off the bench. He's 19. Even he's a developmental pick.

Ready, begin.

I see him as more of a SF especially since we already have Dotson and Trier there. RJ has some good passing skills and can run a PnR. The shooting - just like with Zion - will be a work in progress. But the upside is there. RJ also has the most market value if we're considering trading it.

If we want someone who can come in and play/start, then we should trade down and get Hunter and acquire another asset.

I think he's a SG/SF hybrid - a true wing, if you will. That fits well with the "tall, positionless athletic" basketball model Pills and Fiz claim to be pursuing.

I'm not the biggest fan of trading down and getting more assets for two reasons - it's not the NFL, where the rosters are bigger etc. The NBA is about accumulating the most talent in the fewest bodies, other than fielding a balanced team after that.

On the one hand, I understand you and anyone else's motivation, not seeing RJ as THAT great and the draft in general as somewhat generic 2-12 or whatever. Not that I agree, but if I felt that, then trading down and getting 2 guys like that instead of 1, would appeal.

As a side note, since Fiz Pills like tallish positionless players, based on that and gut feeling - Super Mario comes back to play off the bench if the Knicks sign two max cats. And even if they don't.

[thebuzzardman]

Convince me RJ is better than rookie Alonzo Trier.

Obviously age 19 vs 22, and height, at 6'7" vs 6'5", but convince me that RJ Barrett is a better player than Alonzo Trier showed himself to be as a rookie. Not seeing it. Eventually better? Sure. Better right now? I'd have to be convinced.

I see two players who are a somewhat ball dominant, who aggressively take it to the rim to score, who are scoring SG's with some PG vision but with tendencies to turn the ball over. Trier has the better jumper, better jumper off the dribble, better 3 point range and more adept with his off hand - his left, compared to RJ's right, which makes him even a more effective finisher than RJ, at the moment. Both have the tools to defend, but will drift on defense and do some dumb\disinterested stuff.

I'm still for drafting RJ, but I'm not penciling him in at starting SG like so many seem to want to do. Sure, Trier is 3/4 years older, but with that, he's just better. Right now. RJ probably comes off the bench behind him. If RJ isn't traded.

Drafting RJ isn't drafting a contribute now player, except off the bench. He's 19. Even he's a developmental pick.

Ready, begin.

I see him as more of a SF especially since we already have Dotson and Trier there. RJ has some good passing skills and can run a PnR. The shooting - just like with Zion - will be a work in progress. But the upside is there. RJ also has the most market value if we're considering trading it.

If we want someone who can come in and play/start, then we should trade down and get Hunter and acquire another asset.

Wha???? Are you saying that R.J. isn’t ready to come in and start?

Possibly.

I didn't say he isn't good now and I didn't say he won't be even better, later.

Lets say the team adds KD (who I'll assume plays the 4 spot) and Kyrie at the 1. Mitch/DJ or DJ/Mitch at the 5.

That leaves 2 and 3 open to fill. Assuming the Knicks don't bundle up a few young guys for a vet SG or SF or the space to sign one, and assuming they don't pack off every young player and pick for AD.

I'd give Trier the edge, at least initially, to start at SG over RJ. I think NBA teams would overplay RJ's left hand and make him more ordinary. At first. I also think he'll solve this, but not right away.

An argument can definitely be made to start RJ over Knox though. Both had defensive lapses and drifted, at times, on on defense in college, which Knox took to the NBA, but RJ is more athletic, not possessing the concrete size 20 sneakers Knox displays quite often.
Argument for Knox would be he seems to be the better spot up shooter and MIGHT have an edge scoring on jumpers running around screens/off the ball. I'd probably pick RJ as well here though.

Obviously if the Knicks strike out in FA, RJ starts, no questions asked.

[dablackprodigy]

lol yall really sleeping on RJ who arguably was the leader of that duke squad

[NYKHardKnock]

Ugh. SL will be so fun watching RJ and Mitch. It’ll be a show. Him or Ja. I love what we got going on

[DOT]

I see him as more of a SF especially since we already have Dotson and Trier there. RJ has some good passing skills and can run a PnR. The shooting - just like with Zion - will be a work in progress. But the upside is there. RJ also has the most market value if we're considering trading it.

If we want someone who can come in and play/start, then we should trade down and get Hunter and acquire another asset.

Wha???? Are you saying that R.J. isn’t ready to come in and start?

Possibly.

I didn't say he isn't good now and I didn't say he won't be even better, later.

Lets say the team adds KD (who I'll assume plays the 4 spot) and Kyrie at the 1. Mitch/DJ or DJ/Mitch at the 5.

That leaves 2 and 3 open to fill. Assuming the Knicks don't bundle up a few young guys for a vet SG or SF or the space to sign one, and assuming they don't pack off every young player and pick for AD.

I'd give Trier the edge, at least initially, to start at SG over RJ. I think NBA teams would overplay RJ's left hand and make him more ordinary. At first. I also think he'll solve this, but not right away.

An argument can definitely be made to start RJ over Knox though. Both had defensive lapses and drifted, at times, on on defense in college, which Knox took to the NBA, but RJ is more athletic, not possessing the concrete size 20 sneakers Knox displays quite often.
Argument for Knox would be he seems to be the better spot up shooter and MIGHT have an edge scoring on jumpers running around screens/off the ball. I'd probably pick RJ as well here though.

Obviously if the Knicks strike out in FA, RJ starts, no questions asked.

I think Dot's the de facto starter at this point. Good 3 ball, good defense, really just a solid role player if he gets a little more consistent

Then I think RJ gets the nod over Knox, he's just a better player overall at this point. Knox shoots 3s better, but he's a complete negative anywhere else. Defense doesn't matter though, so maybe Knox gets the start. Or KD plays the 3 and we get a vet 4 like Thad Young or something

[thebuzzardman]

lol yall really sleeping on RJ who arguably was the leader of that duke squad

Maybe some people are. I'm not. I'm pointing out he might not start at SG, depending on who the Knicks get in FA. I could definitely see him starting at SF though. If Durant is the 4. Or maybe, as K-Dot pointed out, if Durant is the 3 (good shooting) and Thad Young winds up at 4 (another good shooter) then they could live with RJ's somewhat inconsistent shot at SG, but benefit from his aggressive driving and more switchability on D.

[thebuzzardman]

Wha???? Are you saying that R.J. isn’t ready to come in and start?

Possibly.

I didn't say he isn't good now and I didn't say he won't be even better, later.

Lets say the team adds KD (who I'll assume plays the 4 spot) and Kyrie at the 1. Mitch/DJ or DJ/Mitch at the 5.

That leaves 2 and 3 open to fill. Assuming the Knicks don't bundle up a few young guys for a vet SG or SF or the space to sign one, and assuming they don't pack off every young player and pick for AD.

I'd give Trier the edge, at least initially, to start at SG over RJ. I think NBA teams would overplay RJ's left hand and make him more ordinary. At first. I also think he'll solve this, but not right away.

An argument can definitely be made to start RJ over Knox though. Both had defensive lapses and drifted, at times, on on defense in college, which Knox took to the NBA, but RJ is more athletic, not possessing the concrete size 20 sneakers Knox displays quite often.
Argument for Knox would be he seems to be the better spot up shooter and MIGHT have an edge scoring on jumpers running around screens/off the ball. I'd probably pick RJ as well here though.

Obviously if the Knicks strike out in FA, RJ starts, no questions asked.

I think Dot's the de facto starter at this point. Good 3 ball, good defense, really just a solid role player if he gets a little more consistent

Then I think RJ gets the nod over Knox, he's just a better player overall at this point. Knox shoots 3s better, but he's a complete negative anywhere else. Defense doesn't matter though, so maybe Knox gets the start. Or KD plays the 3 and we get a vet 4 like Thad Young or something

Dot might have the most consistent J that gets him the nod at SG on a more vet oriented team. I guess RJ's shot could come along and change that equation. Thad Young is interesting at the 4 and would add really interesting versatility to the lineup where no matter if it's Knox or RJ coming off the bench, there's a constant rotation of guys 6'7" or taller to interchange between SG, SF and PF - obviously not each guy capable of playing each position, but at least in terms of where they play on offense and some pretty good flexibility on defense, in terms of switching.

[newyorker4ever]

There’s gonna be a lot of dynamic plays this year. People forget how athletic Knox is Bc his stamina/posture is immature. Knox, Mitch, and RJ would be a good start at getting more athletic.

And while he’s not my favorite you gotta love the athleticism of adding dsj to that group

Dsj
RJ
Knox
?
Mitch

Speaking of DSJ’s athleticism, I thought this clip was cool

If only having great athleticism for dunks was something i cared about from my point guard then i'd think we already had our starting point guard on the team. Unfortunately i need much more from my starting PG if we're gonna actually win.

[BrOnXKing1]

Read a report that Knicks are considering taking Culver at 3. I know we are known for making dumb moves but tell me this isn't true. Experts think Barrett could be top pick overall on his own merits and we would pass and gift him to the Lakers who would package him for Davis or Beal.

This would one of the dumbest moves the Knicks coule make.

[newyorker4ever]

And while he’s not my favorite you gotta love the athleticism of adding dsj to that group

Dsj
RJ
Knox
?
Mitch

the NBA is all about shooting now...you can't throw out that lineup and expect to win with no ability to shoot the basketball from 3 regardless of that teams athleticism.

You can't speak more truth then this. Ya absolutely have to have shooting unless you really are just going for another lottery pick ala tanking.

[newyorker4ever]

the NBA is all about shooting now...you can't throw out that lineup and expect to win with no ability to shoot the basketball from 3 regardless of that teams athleticism.

Knox projects to be a good shooter. RJ doesn’t have to be lights out from day 1. It’s not like he doesn’t want to do other things like make plays and get to the rim. Our PF has to be a good shooter for sure. Not sure who we will put there. I would like one of the Morris bro’s if they don’t want too much $. As far as the Pg positing let’s hope DSJ improves. This is based on if we don’t get KD and Kyrie.

If Kd and Kyrie come

Kyrie
RJ
KD
Stretch 4
Mitch

With the youngN’s coming off the bench going crazy.

oh of course if you add Kyrie and KD it changes everything because those are two of the most efficient outside shooters in the game. I was speaking the original roster construction because while Knox projects to be a decent shooter, he just wasn't a good shooter last year.

RJ isn't a good shooter right now either and DSJ is pretty bad from the perimeter as well.

There's guys that can shoot and hit the 3 ball and guys that are 3 ball shooters which is what every great team needs. Look what R.Allen did for Boston and Miami when they won their championships. R.Allen was a 3 ball shooter.

[awy]

culver is better than rj tho. will be a more valuable player to a winning team.

knicks fans are so dumb with what is important to winning its not surprising to see so many rj stans

[moocow007]

Folks are too focused on Barrett's shooting. Him taking so many 3's, way too many 3's was due largely to the dynamics of the team. Duke was just pure ass in 3 point shooting. If you look for one offensive weakness it was guys that could shoot the 3. I believe Duke ranked 329 in the nation in 3 point percentage. That's just brutal. Now was their horrendous long range shooting a result of Barrett OR was Barrett shooting all those 3's because they had very little other options? If Duke had shooters then Barrett taking so many 3's can be a troubling sign. But the only guy on that roster that could remotely shoot was their 8th man on the depth chart (Alex O'Connell). Given that college coaches usually know a thing or two about basketball, it wasn't hard to defensively game plan for Duke. You force them to shoot 3's. But regardless of that and regardless of what team you have you can't all be trying to attack the rim. You have to spread the floor even if you have a guy like Williamson. Under ideal circumstances I don't think Barrett would have taken that many 3's and, as a result, his percentage likely would have been much better. Bottom line, stop just looking at isolated stats and making what may be unsound or unfair assumptions.

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[newyorker4ever]

I’m not even going to waste my time quoting that awful Hunter post. Hunter doesn’t have the lateral quickness to be a full time 3 & his shooting numbers are on a SSS from 3 and cant be trusted.

Thanks for not wasting your time quoting it.....even though you did...

[Thugger HBC]

I do believe the Knicks will do their due diligence in this draft, especially if they plan on keeping the pick.

I really don't see a talent difference from 3-8 however, all the projected guys have good strengths and known weaknesses, which is why I wouldn't mind trading down, gather another pick in the future (unprotected) from a team that really wants our spot.

[HEZI]

Folks are too focused on Barrett's shooting. Him taking so many 3's, way too many 3's was due largely to the dynamics of the team. Duke was just pure ass in 3 point shooting. If you look for one offensive weakness it was guys that could shoot the 3. I believe Duke ranked 329 in the nation in 3 point percentage. That's just brutal. Now was their horrendous long range shooting a result of Barrett OR was Barrett shooting all those 3's because they had very little other options? If Duke had shooters then Barrett taking so many 3's can be a troubling sign. But the only guy on that roster that could remotely shoot was their 8th man on the depth chart (Alex O'Connell). Given that college coaches usually know a thing or two about basketball, it wasn't hard to defensively game plan for Duke. You force them to shoot 3's. But regardless of that and regardless of what team you have you can't all be trying to attack the rim. You have to spread the floor even if you have a guy like Williamson. Under ideal circumstances I don't think Barrett would have taken that many 3's and, as a result, his percentage likely would have been much better. Bottom line, stop just looking at isolated stats and making what may be unsound or unfair assumptions.

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Yooooooo where you been man? Great to see you back bro

[moocow007]

So and again...

The Knicks DO NOT need to keep whomever they draft! The reality is that RJ Barrett OR Ja Morant is MUCH more valuable to the Knicks in both scenarios for the immediate future.

IF KD and Irving (or another stud star) decide to come to NY and the goal shifts to win now, either Barrett OR Morant would be MUCH more valuable as trade assets than anyone else...ANYONE ELSE... ANYONE ELSE.

IF KD listens to Guy Fieri (lol) and decides to stay in GS, or ho elsewhere...meaning the Knicks are this...

Watch on YouTube

...then Barrett OR Morant would make MUCH MORE sense as Alphas than anyone else. The reality where someone else besides Morant or Barrett is the better choice at 3 is the same reality Peter Pan can be found. Well unless of course Culver grows 3 inches before the draft or Hunter shows that he really does have an NBA caliber offensive repertoire. Or they manage to find a Time Machine, go into the future to see if someone else becomes better.




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[moocow007]

Folks are too focused on Barrett's shooting. Him taking so many 3's, way too many 3's was due largely to the dynamics of the team. Duke was just pure ass in 3 point shooting. If you look for one offensive weakness it was guys that could shoot the 3. I believe Duke ranked 329 in the nation in 3 point percentage. That's just brutal. Now was their horrendous long range shooting a result of Barrett OR was Barrett shooting all those 3's because they had very little other options? If Duke had shooters then Barrett taking so many 3's can be a troubling sign. But the only guy on that roster that could remotely shoot was their 8th man on the depth chart (Alex O'Connell). Given that college coaches usually know a thing or two about basketball, it wasn't hard to defensively game plan for Duke. You force them to shoot 3's. But regardless of that and regardless of what team you have you can't all be trying to attack the rim. You have to spread the floor even if you have a guy like Williamson. Under ideal circumstances I don't think Barrett would have taken that many 3's and, as a result, his percentage likely would have been much better. Bottom line, stop just looking at isolated stats and making what may be unsound or unfair assumptions.

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Yooooooo where you been man? Great to see you back bro

Thanks. Glad to be back. Something was telling me it was time to come back. Sad that it was at the news of Mags passing.

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[F N 11]

culver is better than rj tho. will be a more valuable player to a winning team.

knicks fans are so dumb with what is important to winning its not surprising to see so many rj stans

What makes him better? Was he forced to play point guard when the team pg went down? Did he lead the team when the best player went down? Can he make his teammates better with his passing? Please tell me what you see in Culver.

[aq_ua]

As far as what the Knicks should do at 3?

Um, you don't over think it and take whichever of Morant or Barrett is on the board? Even if the plan is to trade it, 99.44% of the teams that would want to trade would want whomever is left of Morant or Barrett. Not any of the other schlebs left. Let's just be serious.

The debate should be what to do with the 55th pick (for now, until and unless they acquire another pick...which they should).

My focus would be on the following guys (one or more may not be available by 55):

Terance Mann (FSU) - 6'7" 215lb Wing

Watch on YouTube

CJ Massinburg (Buffalo) - 6'3" 195lb G



Jalen McDaneils (SDSU) - 6'10" 200lbs F

Watch on YouTube

Naz Reid (LSU) - 6'10" 250lb C

I like them all, though not that hopeful any of them will be around when we pick. Another one to consider - and it won’t be a popular one - is Luke Maye at 55. I like him as a stretch rebounder at the 3/4 depending on match ups. He’s got his limitations, but he always seems to make the right plays and in the right place at the right time.