2019 NBA draft part deux

[Killboard]

Boston is pretty deep last time I checked. They might want to consolidate two lesser picks into one better. 14-22 for 11 might be overpaying so maybe we have to throw in our second round pick and then buy it back.

Bigger surprises have happened, just that IMO isn't likely. Boston had a down year and I think they will try to go all in and consolidate his assets in the best player they can get.

The wolves should remain open, and do their due diligence in all the prospects to be prepared. I dont think is their call tough.

That doesn't mean they wouldn't be interested in moving up. Consolidating some of their picks into a higher one would be a better trade chip.

Well, some issues with that:

Why they would stop in getting the 11th pick and not the a higher one? Atlanta seems to be willing to trade down one of their top10 picks for multiple picks this year or in the years to come.

If a team is trading away a star, they probably are going to be rebuilding for which a high number of youngs players could be valuable for them.

Again, I dont see Boston picking multiple rookies in the second half of the 1st round, but I think they are going to offer them for a player and not for a higher pick. I would love to have multiple shots to some intriguing players like Talen Horton Tucker, Jontay Porter, Samanic or Keldon Johnson tough.

[KGdaBom]

Bigger surprises have happened, just that IMO isn't likely. Boston had a down year and I think they will try to go all in and consolidate his assets in the best player they can get.

The wolves should remain open, and do their due diligence in all the prospects to be prepared. I dont think is their call tough.

That doesn't mean they wouldn't be interested in moving up. Consolidating some of their picks into a higher one would be a better trade chip.

Well, some issues with that:

Why they would stop in getting the 11th pick and not the a higher one? Atlanta seems to be willing to trade down one of their top10 picks for multiple picks this year or in the years to come.

If a team is trading away a star, they probably are going to be rebuilding for which a high number of youngs players could be valuable for them.

Again, I dont see Boston picking multiple rookies in the second half of the 1st round, but I think they are going to offer them for a player and not for a higher pick. I would love to have multiple shots to some intriguing players like Talen Horton Tucker, Jontay Porter, Samanic or Keldon Johnson tough.

If the Hawks are interested in trading 10 for 14-22 than of course that is better than #11 so the Celtics would certainly do that. I don't think the Celtics can get any kind of useful player packaging 14-22. The trade IMO has to be for a better draft pick.

[shangrila]

Bigger surprises have happened, just that IMO isn't likely. Boston had a down year and I think they will try to go all in and consolidate his assets in the best player they can get.

The wolves should remain open, and do their due diligence in all the prospects to be prepared. I dont think is their call tough.

That doesn't mean they wouldn't be interested in moving up. Consolidating some of their picks into a higher one would be a better trade chip.

Well, some issues with that:

Why they would stop in getting the 11th pick and not the a higher one? Atlanta seems to be willing to trade down one of their top10 picks for multiple picks this year or in the years to come.

If a team is trading away a star, they probably are going to be rebuilding for which a high number of youngs players could be valuable for them.

Again, I dont see Boston picking multiple rookies in the second half of the 1st round, but I think they are going to offer them for a player and not for a higher pick. I would love to have multiple shots to some intriguing players like Talen Horton Tucker, Jontay Porter, Samanic or Keldon Johnson tough.

I disagree.

Atlanta already has 2 top 10 picks and plenty of youth already on their roster (Young, Huerter, Spellman). There's no reason for them to trade down for even more youth. The only team that makes some sense for a trade down like that is Washington because they're in a similar situation to us; they have their star but are capped out and need to get talent around him cheaply. But then it's unlikely for a similar situation; they need talent and moving down doesn't necessarily give them the best prospect. We're in a good situation for this hypothetical because it's not too far for us to move down but we're also potentially more interested in quantity rather than quality.

If a team is trading away a star they're already on the losing end of the deal so would be looking for quality and not quantity. In that case, a higher pick would be worth more then 2 lower picks.

I don't see how trading, say, the 14th and 22nd picks for the 11th would stop Boston from doing any of those things though? They'd end up with the 11th and 20th picks, those are still attractive and I'd argue more so than a later lottery pick and 2 near identical picks in the high 20s.

[wolfen]

Some thoughts about our draft. At press conference Rosas has mentioned that we need to find better players and Ryan mentioned that we need to stop overhelping when defending PnR, more switching should be executed, and no more wide open corner 3s.

I doubt we find FA who can impact our game enough, given our salary cap limitation. We also have minutes/money commited to KAT/Dieng/Saric/RoCo/Wiggins/Okogie/KBD group. Probably Tyus will be added too.

The problem is that I dont see us be above average defensive team with KAT/Dieng/Saric as bigmen. KAT should definitely improve, but there is not much potential in Dieng and Saric. While I'm good with RoCo/Wiggins/Okogie/KBD group to defend perimeter. I can see why MIN has been mentioned as interested to improve PF/C position by adding more size, athleticism. IMO RoCo should not be mentioned as stretch 4, because his body type is not the same as Tucker or Dray Green.

Scenario #1: Rui because he is physical enough to play against bigs, and mobile enough to defend perimeter. Rui could give us such type of switchable defender. Draft Lecque at 43.

KAT/Dieng
Saric/Hachimura/KBD
RoCo/KBD/Reynolds
Wiggins/Okogie/
Teague/Tyus/Lecque

Scenario #2: Projecting Sekou as long term project He was 6'9" with a 6'11" wingspan and listed at 230 pounds at age 17. I wonder if he continue to grow. Develop him as stretch 4, but mostly as quick comboforward who can defend all positions, except C, run and score in transition. Draft Lecque at 43

KAT/Dieng
Saric/KBD/Sekou
RoCo/Sekou/Reynolds
Wiggins/Okogie/
Teague/Tyus/Lecque

Scenario #3. I am perfectly fine if we trade down and acquire another late FRP/early SRP and get separately a true defensive minded bigman and PG. Daniel Gafford, Bassey, Fernando, maybe Bitadze.

This type of deal is perfect to me:

MIN: #17, #27, and #31
OUT: #11 and #43

Draft NAW (offers some defensive upgrade over Teague/Tyus), Bassey(mobile long bigman), Thybulle (elite perimeter defender).

KAT/Bassey/Dieng
Saric/KBD/???
RoCo/Reynolds/Thybulle
Wiggins/Okogie/NAW
Teague/Tyus/NAW

P.S. I also wonder how we can benefit from having a big PG simply if he is able to slow down a rolling bigman after defensive switch. Teague and Tyus give us no resistance in such situations.

For me, option 3 is always going to be the best choice, especially if we can get NAW in that scenario. But even if we can't, I like what we could get at picks 17, 27, and 31 much more than what we could get at 11 and 43. So my picks would be NAW at 17 (although I just don't think he'll be there but for this exercise he is), 27 I'm going Carsen Edwards, 31 I'm going Jontay Porter. I agree that Thybule is a great defender but he's redundant with Okogie. And Bassey is a specimen, but watching him in drills at the combine, the dude was not coordinated, at all. And bricked shot after shot, it was ugly.

My plan doesn't address the defense quite like yours, but instead brings us into the modern game a little more, with all 3 players being potentially really good 3 point shooters. I could see NAW and Edwards on the court at the same time in stretches, that could be deadly. Edwards primarily though would be your sparkplug scoring combo off the bench. When Porter gets healthy, he's a top 10 talent in this draft. Great shooter, great passer, smart player. Blocks shots too, good length. He just needs to get stronger and meaner is all, he's a long-play.

[Killboard]

Atlanta already has 2 top 10 picks and plenty of youth already on their roster (Young, Huerter, Spellman). There's no reason for them to trade down for even more youth.

That's not why the traded away Doncic last season. I think they are keeping the tank on at least a couple of seasons, gathering assets and picking as many young prospects as they can. Eventually they could even start to trade their own prospects as Collins to keep the wheel running. Every shot at the draft pool matters to find a star and they decided to have time to develop.

If a team is trading away a star they're already on the losing end of the deal so would be looking for quality and not quantity. In that case, a higher pick would be worth more then 2 lower picks.

The third team could also move up using both picks. Or use one to keep a player and the other as trade bait for another deal. I think two picks have more flexibility than a higher one, if they have more rough value, and 14+22 has more value than 11 IMO.
If I were the team rebuilding I would value flexibility by my own, specially if I can get the same deal Boston would get or choose differently.

I don't see how trading, say, the 14th and 22nd picks for the 11th would stop Boston from doing any of those things though? They'd end up with the 11th and 20th picks, those are still attractive and I'd argue more so than a later lottery pick and 2 near identical picks in the high 20s.

Have you discussed the deal in the Celtics forum? I think they wouldnt be very willing to trade 22th away to move up 3 spots EXCEPT they absolutely love a player (a tier or two above the guys left) and are afraid he could go 11th, 12th or 13th. That's why I said is not a call the wolves can do by themselves, it depends on how much other teams value the guys at our range.

[shangrila]

Atlanta already has 2 top 10 picks and plenty of youth already on their roster (Young, Huerter, Spellman). There's no reason for them to trade down for even more youth.

That's not why the traded away Doncic last season. I think they are keeping the tank on at least a couple of seasons, gathering assets and picking as many young prospects as they can. Eventually they could even start to trade their own prospects as Collins to keep the wheel running. Every shot at the draft pool matters to find a star and they decided to have time to develop.

If they were just picking 10th you'd have a point, but they've got the 8th as well. They don't need to trade down because they've already got multiple picks.

If a team is trading away a star they're already on the losing end of the deal so would be looking for quality and not quantity. In that case, a higher pick would be worth more then 2 lower picks.

First, the third team could also move up using both picks. Or use one to keep a player and the other as trade bait for another deal. I think two picks have more flexibility than a higher one, if they have more rough value, and 14+22 has more value than 11.
If I was the team rebuilding I would value flexibility by my own, specially if I can get the same deal Boston would get or choose differently.

I don't see how trading, say, the 14th and 22nd picks for the 11th would stop Boston from doing any of those things though? They'd end up with the 11th and 20th picks, those are still attractive and I'd argue more so than a later lottery pick and 2 near identical picks in the high 20s.

Have you discussed the deal in the Celtics forum? I think they wouldnt be very willing to trade 22th away to move up 3 spots EXCEPT they absolutely love a player (a tier or two above the guys left) and are afraid he could go 11th, 12th or 13th. That's why I said is not a call the wolves can do by themselves, it depends on how much other teams value the guys at our range.

I disagree but that's all I've got to say. From our discussions up to this point I think our viewpoints are too different to find middle ground. Which is fine, and don't get me wrong I've enjoyed our back and forth but we've been off topic for a while now so I'm going to leave it here.

[minimus]

Some thoughts about our draft. At press conference Rosas has mentioned that we need to find better players and Ryan mentioned that we need to stop overhelping when defending PnR, more switching should be executed, and no more wide open corner 3s.

I doubt we find FA who can impact our game enough, given our salary cap limitation. We also have minutes/money commited to KAT/Dieng/Saric/RoCo/Wiggins/Okogie/KBD group. Probably Tyus will be added too.

The problem is that I dont see us be above average defensive team with KAT/Dieng/Saric as bigmen. KAT should definitely improve, but there is not much potential in Dieng and Saric. While I'm good with RoCo/Wiggins/Okogie/KBD group to defend perimeter. I can see why MIN has been mentioned as interested to improve PF/C position by adding more size, athleticism. IMO RoCo should not be mentioned as stretch 4, because his body type is not the same as Tucker or Dray Green.

Scenario #1: Rui because he is physical enough to play against bigs, and mobile enough to defend perimeter. Rui could give us such type of switchable defender. Draft Lecque at 43.

KAT/Dieng
Saric/Hachimura/KBD
RoCo/KBD/Reynolds
Wiggins/Okogie/
Teague/Tyus/Lecque

Scenario #2: Projecting Sekou as long term project He was 6'9" with a 6'11" wingspan and listed at 230 pounds at age 17. I wonder if he continue to grow. Develop him as stretch 4, but mostly as quick comboforward who can defend all positions, except C, run and score in transition. Draft Lecque at 43

KAT/Dieng
Saric/KBD/Sekou
RoCo/Sekou/Reynolds
Wiggins/Okogie/
Teague/Tyus/Lecque

Scenario #3. I am perfectly fine if we trade down and acquire another late FRP/early SRP and get separately a true defensive minded bigman and PG. Daniel Gafford, Bassey, Fernando, maybe Bitadze.

This type of deal is perfect to me:

MIN: #17, #27, and #31
OUT: #11 and #43

Draft NAW (offers some defensive upgrade over Teague/Tyus), Bassey(mobile long bigman), Thybulle (elite perimeter defender).

KAT/Bassey/Dieng
Saric/KBD/???
RoCo/Reynolds/Thybulle
Wiggins/Okogie/NAW
Teague/Tyus/NAW

P.S. I also wonder how we can benefit from having a big PG simply if he is able to slow down a rolling bigman after defensive switch. Teague and Tyus give us no resistance in such situations.

For me, option 3 is always going to be the best choice, especially if we can get NAW in that scenario. But even if we can't, I like what we could get at picks 17, 27, and 31 much more than what we could get at 11 and 43. So my picks would be NAW at 17 (although I just don't think he'll be there but for this exercise he is), 27 I'm going Carsen Edwards, 31 I'm going Jontay Porter. I agree that Thybule is a great defender but he's redundant with Okogie. And Bassey is a specimen, but watching him in drills at the combine, the dude was not coordinated, at all. And bricked shot after shot, it was ugly.

My plan doesn't address the defense quite like yours, but instead brings us into the modern game a little more, with all 3 players being potentially really good 3 point shooters. I could see NAW and Edwards on the court at the same time in stretches, that could be deadly. Edwards primarily though would be your sparkplug scoring combo off the bench. When Porter gets healthy, he's a top 10 talent in this draft. Great shooter, great passer, smart player. Blocks shots too, good length. He just needs to get stronger and meaner is all, he's a long-play.

You covered another thing that I forget to mention. In offense I think that our biggest area of improvement could be creating dynamic PnR duo with KAT as main man. RoCo, Wiggins, Tyus, Teague, Okogie are not NBA level PnR ballhandlers. Your scenario addresses this need. I think that there is a good chance that Edwards and NAW can be decent PnR players. This opens up another level of offense for us, including open 3s opportunities or backdoor cuts etc.

P.S. I have heard that Bassey had very bad showing at combine. I don't know much about Porter but those type of talent should be considered when he falls into 2nd round.

[KGdaBom]

Atlanta already has 2 top 10 picks and plenty of youth already on their roster (Young, Huerter, Spellman). There's no reason for them to trade down for even more youth.

That's not why the traded away Doncic last season. I think they are keeping the tank on at least a couple of seasons, gathering assets and picking as many young prospects as they can. Eventually they could even start to trade their own prospects as Collins to keep the wheel running. Every shot at the draft pool matters to find a star and they decided to have time to develop.

If a team is trading away a star they're already on the losing end of the deal so would be looking for quality and not quantity. In that case, a higher pick would be worth more then 2 lower picks.

The third team could also move up using both picks. Or use one to keep a player and the other as trade bait for another deal. I think two picks have more flexibility than a higher one, if they have more rough value, and 14+22 has more value than 11 IMO.
If I were the team rebuilding I would value flexibility by my own, specially if I can get the same deal Boston would get or choose differently.

I don't see how trading, say, the 14th and 22nd picks for the 11th would stop Boston from doing any of those things though? They'd end up with the 11th and 20th picks, those are still attractive and I'd argue more so than a later lottery pick and 2 near identical picks in the high 20s.

Have you discussed the deal in the Celtics forum? I think they wouldnt be very willing to trade 22th away to move up 3 spots EXCEPT they absolutely love a player (a tier or two above the guys left) and are afraid he could go 11th, 12th or 13th. That's why I said is not a call the wolves can do by themselves, it depends on how much other teams value the guys at our range.

If the Celtics really want the trade up that would be an indicator to me that maybe we shouldn't want the trade down. The Celtics aren't dummies. Who will the trade down cost us?

[Killboard]

Switching wise, which to me should be a point of emphasis this offseason, some thoughts:

There is different concepts to it:
Bigs who can move his feet to stay in front of skilled perimeter players/chase around screens off the ball.
Perimeter players that can be long enough to contain bigger players in hope of bother shots or wait for help. Usually wings on rotations.
Perimeter players who can veer back/box out the roll man to keep him as far of the rim as they can. Usually the PG or the primary on ball defender.

Of the 3, I think the most glaring problem is the last one. Strong guards like Lowry or Paul who aren't long are good at this. Lenght can help but phisicallity is the key. Teague and Wiggins aren't good at this IMO.

Guys that could excel in the 1st scenario are Clarke or Doumbouya.
In the second scenario guys like NAW or Keldon Johnson.
In the third scenario guys like Talen Horton Tucker. .

Overall, there are several keys to switching, just that when those players can get an efficient role on offense they are more valuable since is easier to have a positive impact all around.

[KGdaBom]

Switching wise, which to me should be a point of emphasis this offseason, some thoughts:

There is different concepts to it:
Bigs who can move his feet to stay in front of skilled perimeter players/chase around screens off the ball.
Perimeter players that can be long enough to contain bigger players in hope of bother shots or wait for help. Usually wings on rotations.
Perimeter players who can veer back/box out the roll man to keep him as far of the rim as they can. Usually the PG or the primary on ball defender.

Of the 3, I think the most glaring problem is the last one. Strong guards like Lowry or Paul who aren't long are good at this. Lenght can help but phisicallity is the key. Teague and Wiggins aren't good at this IMO.

Guys that could excel in the 1st scenario are Clarke or Doumbouya.
In the second scenario guys like NAW or Keldon Johnson.
In the third scenario guys like Talen Horton Tucker. .

Overall, there are several keys to switching, just that when those players can get an efficient role on offense they are more valuable since is easier to have a positive impact all around.

Don't forget Jaxson Hayes on the slim chance that he falls to us.

[Slim Tubby]

Don't forget Jaxson Hayes on the slim chance that he falls to us.[/quote]

I haven't see much of Hayes in college. How would he look next to KAT? (I think ATL takes Hayes with one of their first two (2) picks so it's probably a moot point asking but just curious)

[minimus]

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Part of me is suggesting that Siakam had very unique physical tools that allow him to switch. I don't see even candidates in these draft class who have similar combination of wingspan, quickness, strength and motor.

[Killboard]

I haven't see much of Hayes in college. How would he look next to KAT? (I think ATL takes Hayes with one of their first two (2) picks so it's probably a moot point asking but just curious)

Size wise:
he has the same hand size than Jarret Allen, one inch above in height (6' 10.25' without shoes), standing reach (9' 2.5''), and 2 inches below in wingpsan (7' 3.5'' wignpsan), and 15 lbs more light.

Stat wise:

Lower reb% (12.5% vs Allen 14.9%), but better steal% (1.5 vs Allen 1)
and blk% (10.6 vs Allen 5%).
Hayes also had better FG% (72% vs 56%), but Allen was more featured on offense (Hayes averaged 13.6 shots per100 while Allen 17.4, which lead to 5 points more on usage).
Hayes was a much better FT% tough.

Agility wise:
Pretty much the same lane agilty (Hayes was .1 seconds worse).
Shuttle run was 10% better for Allen.
Spring was better for Allen 5%.
Standing Leap: 4.5 inches better for Allen.
Max vertical was 1 inch better for Allen.


All things considered, both of them have very similar atheltic and body profiles. Stat wise Hayes was more efficient but less featured in Texas offense. On defense Hayes was a lot better at blocking shot tough.

[Krapinsky]

Part of me is suggesting that Siakam had very unique physical tools that allow him to switch. I don't see even candidates in these draft class who have similar combination of wingspan, quickness, strength and motor.

Washington didn't do the agility drills at the combine, but he's the guy who might be the most comparable imo. He's also who I hope the Wolves pick at 11 if the more obvious names are unavailable.

[KGdaBom]

I haven't see much of Hayes in college. How would he look next to KAT? (I think ATL takes Hayes with one of their first two (2) picks so it's probably a moot point asking but just curious)

Size wise:
he has the same hand size than Jarret Allen, one inch above in height (6' 10.25' without shoes), standing reach (9' 2.5''), and 2 inches below in wingpsan (7' 3.5'' wignpsan), and 15 lbs more light.

Stat wise:

Lower reb% (12.5% vs Allen 14.9%), but better steal% (1.5 vs Allen 1)
and blk% (10.6 vs Allen 5%).
Hayes also had better FG% (72% vs 56%), but Allen was more featured on offense (Hayes averaged 13.6 shots per100 while Allen 17.4, which lead to 5 points more on usage).
Hayes was a much better FT% tough.

Agility wise:
Pretty much the same lane agilty (Hayes was .1 seconds worse).
Shuttle run was 10% better for Allen.
Spring was better for Allen 5%.
Standing Leap: 4.5 inches better for Allen.
Max vertical was 1 inch better for Allen.


All things considered, both of them have very similar atheltic and body profiles. Stat wise Hayes was more efficient but less featured in Texas offense. On defense Hayes was a lot better at blocking shot tough.

Nice comparison. I would be very happy with a more efficient, better defending Jarrett Allen.

[KGdaBom]

The more I think about Hayes the more I like him. I believe he will end up being a RICH MAN's Clint Capela.

[taj2133]

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[Domejandro]

For the Bruno Fernando discussion, people should be aware that he is actually a very underwhelming defensive player, despite his gaudy counting statistics. He is fortunate to have such an amazing wingspan and athletic ability, because his is fundamentally abysmal on that end of the floor.

[Krapinsky]

For a team with so many needs, i can't justify taking a Center at 11 unless he is clearly BPA and I don't see Hayes being a whole tier ahead of the other guys available.