Celtics General Offseason (incl. Trade) Thread, 2019

[radcot]

Spoiler:

Damn the Lakers.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

It's petty and spiteful I know, but whatever makes the Lakers look bad makes me feel good.

[Afam]

Read on Twitter

Celtics are not any better unfortunately. Changes are coming.

[CTCeltsFan34]

From what stand point? Are you talking Front Office or player personnel stand point?

I dont think there is a comparison between the two front offices. Now if your saying personel/ coaching wise changes are coming, I'm on board with you on that 100%

Read on Twitter

Celtics are not any better unfortunately. Changes are coming.

Sent from my SM-N950U using RealGM mobile app

[zoyathedestroya]

We now know what Danny Ainge did while recovering from his mild heart attack. That was a fascinating and pleasurable read on the state of the Lakers, Danny! You as the ghost writer and Baxter did really well.

[Darth Celtic]

Ric Bucher says Nets or Lakers for Kyrie and he bought a house in NJ....

They buy houses all over, all the time.

Isn't Bucher the guy with no sources?

[robdog_5]

Ric Bucher says Nets or Lakers for Kyrie and he bought a house in NJ....

They buy houses all over, all the time.

Isn't Bucher the guy with no sources?

Bucher is mostly a hack. But then again everyone has sources now a days

[Ed Pinkney]

Not sure if this would be better for the draft thread, but assuming the picks aren't needed in a Davis trade is there any team above the Celtics that might be interested in having multiple first round picks? Could 14/20/22 get you 7 (Chicago) or 9 (Washington) for example? These are two teams that I thought might be interested.

[K For Three]

Ric Bucher says Nets or Lakers for Kyrie and he bought a house in NJ....

They buy houses all over, all the time.

Isn't Bucher the guy with no sources?

Read on Twitter

[K For Three]

IMHO Gordon this year was an underutilized #4 who probably ended up having the impact of a #5...not good for 30 million but understandable given his injury and the roster logjam at SF. Rozier was a #6 placed in a bad situation for his skillset and not always dealing with it well so he looked like a #7. But Rozier probably thinks of himself as a #2 or #3.

I do think in right situation, Gordon is a #3 but he needs to be on a team that actually doesn't have 4 SFs and that needs him to score at least 17-18 PPG.

When I evaluate players, I am including defense for a lot and that hurts Hayward some and Irving even more. Kyrie on offensive end, I'd rate as a 1B but defense is what hurts his value.

In reality, I really think of any player below a #3 as a role player who isn't elite as a role player.

So, my #3 for Irving isn't meant to knock him to much.... I only have 2 6"3 and under PGs since 1980 as true #1's.

lol I was joking about the #9 thing. And of course Kyrie is what he is btw depending on the roster he is on too.

BTW how do you feel about Gordon's defensive potential since you did bring that up with including D.

You may have seen me post this before but if you haven't check it out...

http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

I realize why the Celtics didn't go for it big time before this trading deadline since they were saving up first round picks to make a run at Davis but when you read that article above, it does make me question why when Morris asked for a trade in the preseason, the Celtics didn't try to trade him and 2 seconds for more of a natural PF/C. Without such a move, the Celtics were limiting their chances to get lucky this postseason since Horford is too old to carry such a crazy load and kind of unfair to ask him given the Celtics don't have a SF that can step up on D like Leonard. C's needed someone ideally better than Baynes at 5 or Morris at 4 to help out Horford. At the deadline I understood why Ainge didn't want to trade Morris since he was excited about the playoffs.

Gordon was at least a good defender with Utah from what I saw but I think increased age plus injury have me not expecting anything beyond slight to modest improvement in ability compared to what we saw vs Milwaukee and Indiana.

Professional defense but end of the day not the Giannis container the Celtics need at the SF position. I would like him to be one of the players to volunteer to sacrifice his body to defend Giannis and then a player like Davis can block him from the weak side. Tatum seems too thin right now for that role. I don't think Morris is good enough to start on a typical champion.

I don't want to be a Negative Nelly but I see combination of Irving, Horford, Davis and Hayward as only good on defensive end so I think if Celtics go with Irving and Davis long term, Hayward or Kyrie should be replaced with more of a low usage ELITE 3 and D player. Celtics if they keep Smart can only expect him to do so much on the defensive end.

Irving and Hayward I think would fit better together if the center/PF was KG or Duncan instead of Davis. I think Celtics fans overrate Davis on defense based upon rebounds/blocks. Not saying he is anything but very good defensively but players like KG/Duncan controlled the paint better. Davis is better than Duncan on the offensive end, however.

And to be fair to Davis even if he was Duncan or KG on defense in owning the paint, tough to stop a Curry 3 or Klay 3.

I realize this was more of a transition year for whatever reasons but Ainge has to do a better job next year in roster construction.

Irving/Durant and a bunch of 3 and D players/defenders may work. I realize it must be hard to juggle so many things since I suspect Ainge in order to sign players like Horford/Hayward make them promises and in order to facilitate a trade for Irving, they probably make him some promises.

I think the Knicks would agree.

But I have wanted Durant all along over AD even. It won't happen here, but I just always felt it was a better move then giving up too much for flake puff AD. AD is a great player but people thinking this is KG 2.0 will be let down.

[LuckyLeprechaun]

Not sure if this would be better for the draft thread, but assuming the picks aren't needed in a Davis trade is there any team above the Celtics that might be interested in having multiple first round picks? Could 14/20/22 get you 7 (Chicago) or 9 (Washington) for example? These are two teams that I thought might be interested.

I'm not sure but I would be far more interested in getting future picks than moving up in this draft.

[K For Three]

Read on Twitter

[BRUNiNHO91]

Read on Twitter

Am I the only one that's not really following this whole 'Boston is burning down' ****? I can't see much happening that would be bad for us. We can literally survive anything that happens and come out as a top 3 team in the East, maybe even more depending on how much damage the Bucks, Raps and Sixers take in free agency ..I think Horford would be the only difficult loss for us to recover from, just because we won't really find any other player who could provide what he does.

Our absolute worst case scenario would be losing all the free agents..Horford, Kyrie, Baynes, Mook and Rozier..at that point you're left with Tatum, Brown, Smart, Hayward, Semi, Robert Williams, 3 first round draft picks and like 40+ mil capspace to spend. I could certainly think of like one or two or twenty teams who would be pretty thrilled to be in such a position.

[cloverleaf]

Read on Twitter

Am I the only one that's not really following this whole 'Boston is burning down' ****? I can't see much happening that would be bad for us. We can literally survive anything that happens and come out as a top 3 team in the East, maybe even more depending on how much damage the Bucks, Raps and Sixers take in free agency ..I think Horford would be the only difficult loss for us to recover from, just because we won't really find any other player who could provide what he does.

Our absolute worst case scenario would be losing all the free agents..Horford, Kyrie, Baynes, Mook and Rozier..at that point you're left with Tatum, Brown, Smart, Hayward, Semi, Robert Williams, 3 first round draft picks and like 40+ mil capspace to spend. I could certainly think of like one or two or twenty teams who would be pretty thrilled to be in such a position.

Al is not getting any younger or more durable such that him opting out altogether potentially isn't the worst thing--if they can indeed bag another max in his place. But leaving the team with an aggregate one All-Star appearance (Gordo's --or say, Gordo's and Al's, but Al can't stay healthy) and having only mid- to late-1st rounders is neither prime rebuilding or likely competitive with the top 3 teams in the East. It is more fluttering about in mediocrity.

That said, I could be up for the right defensive and distributive vet 1 and 5 to team with JB, JT and GH as a three-headed offensive lead. That and the right new coaches on Brad's staff could be interesting. I'd rather see that than a replay of last season that simply returns the dysfunction we just lived through.

[cloverleaf]

IMHO Gordon this year was an underutilized #4 who probably ended up having the impact of a #5...not good for 30 million but understandable given his injury and the roster logjam at SF. Rozier was a #6 placed in a bad situation for his skillset and not always dealing with it well so he looked like a #7. But Rozier probably thinks of himself as a #2 or #3.

I do think in right situation, Gordon is a #3 but he needs to be on a team that actually doesn't have 4 SFs and that needs him to score at least 17-18 PPG.

When I evaluate players, I am including defense for a lot and that hurts Hayward some and Irving even more. Kyrie on offensive end, I'd rate as a 1B but defense is what hurts his value.

In reality, I really think of any player below a #3 as a role player who isn't elite as a role player.

So, my #3 for Irving isn't meant to knock him to much.... I only have 2 6"3 and under PGs since 1980 as true #1's.

lol I was joking about the #9 thing. And of course Kyrie is what he is btw depending on the roster he is on too.

BTW how do you feel about Gordon's defensive potential since you did bring that up with including D.

You may have seen me post this before but if you haven't check it out...

http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

I realize why the Celtics didn't go for it big time before this trading deadline since they were saving up first round picks to make a run at Davis but when you read that article above, it does make me question why when Morris asked for a trade in the preseason, the Celtics didn't try to trade him and 2 seconds for more of a natural PF/C. Without such a move, the Celtics were limiting their chances to get lucky this postseason since Horford is too old to carry such a crazy load and kind of unfair to ask him given the Celtics don't have a SF that can step up on D like Leonard. C's needed someone ideally better than Baynes at 5 or Morris at 4 to help out Horford. At the deadline I understood why Ainge didn't want to trade Morris since he was excited about the playoffs.

Gordon was at least a good defender with Utah from what I saw but I think increased age plus injury have me not expecting anything beyond slight to modest improvement in ability compared to what we saw vs Milwaukee and Indiana.

Professional defense but end of the day not the Giannis container the Celtics need at the SF position. I would like him to be one of the players to volunteer to sacrifice his body to defend Giannis and then a player like Davis can block him from the weak side. Tatum seems too thin right now for that role. I don't think Morris is good enough to start on a typical champion.

I don't want to be a Negative Nelly but I see combination of Irving, Horford, Davis and Hayward as only good on defensive end so I think if Celtics go with Irving and Davis long term, Hayward or Kyrie should be replaced with more of a low usage ELITE 3 and D player. Celtics if they keep Smart can only expect him to do so much on the defensive end.

Irving and Hayward I think would fit better together if the center/PF was KG or Duncan instead of Davis. I think Celtics fans overrate Davis on defense based upon rebounds/blocks. Not saying he is anything but very good defensively but players like KG/Duncan controlled the paint better. Davis is better than Duncan on the offensive end, however.

And to be fair to Davis even if he was Duncan or KG on defense in owning the paint, tough to stop a Curry 3 or Klay 3.

I realize this was more of a transition year for whatever reasons but Ainge has to do a better job next year in roster construction.

Irving/Durant and a bunch of 3 and D players/defenders may work. I realize it must be hard to juggle so many things since I suspect Ainge in order to sign players like Horford/Hayward make them promises and in order to facilitate a trade for Irving, they probably make him some promises.

Danny didn't do more because they thought this last year was beyond "transitioning". It was only a transition year because they sucked as a team.

But with Al projected to decline another 35% this year, then by another 57% the following year and, gulp, another 146% after that, coupled with how warn down his body is already, he should be nothing but a limited-minutes bench 4, maybe with a spot start, from here on out. And if he redoes his contract to get three more shots at a ring here, it ought to reflect that. Maybe not too likely, considered he's guaranteed $30M next year by staying pat.

[Dannyboy36]

Not sure if this would be better for the draft thread, but assuming the picks aren't needed in a Davis trade is there any team above the Celtics that might be interested in having multiple first round picks? Could 14/20/22 get you 7 (Chicago) or 9 (Washington) for example? These are two teams that I thought might be interested.

I'm not sure but I would be far more interested in getting future picks than moving up in this draft.

Without knowing jack about college players or high school prospects , I feel the same. Like if this is a draft where a 14 pick probably doesn’t even crack the rotation I wish we could move them but I don’t think a team would risk that.
What do you guys think of Zach Lavine? Would anyone consider trying to trade Tatum for him in some package. I could be wrong but I think he’s s stronger prospect but I’m not sure that is a popular opinion.

[soxfan2003]

Not sure if this would be better for the draft thread, but assuming the picks aren't needed in a Davis trade is there any team above the Celtics that might be interested in having multiple first round picks? Could 14/20/22 get you 7 (Chicago) or 9 (Washington) for example? These are two teams that I thought might be interested.

I'm not sure but I would be far more interested in getting future picks than moving up in this draft.

Without knowing jack about college players or high school prospects , I feel the same. Like if this is a draft where a 14 pick probably doesn’t even crack the rotation I wish we could move them but I don’t think a team would risk that.
What do you guys think of Zach Lavine? Would anyone consider trying to trade Tatum for him in some package. I could be wrong but I think he’s s stronger prospect but I’m not sure that is a popular opinion.

I doubt it is. Maybe I am an extremist on this one, I wouldn't want LaVine for the minimum to be honest if the Celtics had to play him major minutes and weren't trying to tank games. Celtics have to get back to what is important for winning games. All main rotation guys gotta play defense and play unselfishly in their roles. If you are prime Steve Nash your bad defense can be forgiven but besides that Celtics really need to prioritize players that can defend at a good level or above.

3 point shooting and defense are two things that often win games. Tatum isn't projecting to be Dennis Rodman from his Detroit days on defense but he still playing it at a higher level than LaVine ever will. He has already showed that he is on track to be better free throw shooter and 3 point shooter. Tatum may never live up to projections based upon last years playoffs but with any decent coaching and work ethic should at least be a very good starter calibre player on a championship team.

LaVine is looking like a marginally better Ricky Davis playing in an era better for guards. Davis in his career played in a grand total of 11 playoff games. He was an empty stats player and that is what LaVine appears to me. He can score in bunches but compromises your defense too much. The other player he reminds me of a bit is Ron Mercer and I never wanted the Celtics to draft Mercer.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

My Draft Day Trade-A-Palooza...

Trade 1. Milquetoast

20 & 22 to the Nets for 17 & 27

Why do the Nets do it? They move up more than they move down. It's a pretty insignificant deal in its own right, but part of a larger trade picture for the Celtics.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Trade-A-Palooza Deal 2: Becoming Interesting

Smart, 17 & 27 to the Suns for 6, 32 and one of their flawed young players.


Why does Phoenix make this deal?

Smart would fit in well with Booker, adds desperately needed defense, leadership and toughness to a young Suns squad.

Why for the Celtics? They want the 6th pick in this Draft for further maneuvers and likely have to move Smart in any AD Deal.

[Darth Celtic]

Trade-A-Palooza Deal 2: Becoming Interesting

Smart, 17 & 27 to the Suns for 6, 32 and one of their flawed young players.


Why does Phoenix make this deal?

Smart would fit in well with Booker, adds desperately needed defense, leadership and toughness to a young Suns squad.

Why for the Celtics? They want the 6th pick in this Draft for further maneuvers and likely have to move Smart in any AD Deal.

name me a time where multiple trades were made in the same draft like that by 1 team? Pretty much never seen it.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Trade-A-Palooza Deal 3: Ohhhhhhh

6 & the future Memphis Pick back to the Grizzlies for their 2019 First Rounder.


Why for Memphis?

This could be a tough sell, but dropping from 2 to 6 in this Draft is not life threatening, as opposed to Past Lotteries. At 6, there will likely be a quality PG available, whether Garland or White to replace Conley, and the return of their own 2020/2021 First is obviously a big incentive for a deal to take place.

For the C's, acquiring the Second Pick in the Draft ushers in the Ja Rule Era or helps the Green crush any other deal for AD.