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2019 NBA draft part deux

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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#81 » by Crazy-Canuck » Wed May 29, 2019 1:30 am

Killboard wrote:Switching wise, which to me should be a point of emphasis this offseason, some thoughts:

There is different concepts to it:
Bigs who can move his feet to stay in front of skilled perimeter players/chase around screens off the ball.
Perimeter players that can be long enough to contain bigger players in hope of bother shots or wait for help. Usually wings on rotations.
Perimeter players who can veer back/box out the roll man to keep him as far of the rim as they can. Usually the PG or the primary on ball defender.

Of the 3, I think the most glaring problem is the last one. Strong guards like Lowry or Paul who aren't long are good at this. Lenght can help but phisicallity is the key. Teague and Wiggins aren't good at this IMO.

Guys that could excel in the 1st scenario are Clarke or Doumbouya.
In the second scenario guys like NAW or Keldon Johnson.
In the third scenario guys like Talen Horton Tucker. .

Overall, there are several keys to switching, just that when those players can get an efficient role on offense they are more valuable since is easier to have a positive impact all around.



Strong point guards that can get through screens and body people up, is a need.
A big that can move, switch and guard multiple positions is a bigger need.

Having that guard makes life easier on the defensive end, but having that big that can roam like a Green, Siakam, etc..can control the defense.

Hence why Im on board with Clarke regardless of his measurements.

The guy is everywhere on defense and his head is on a swivel. He's also is a communicator on the floor and knows how to quarterback the defense. When you watch him, you can hear him yelling at rui and others about where to go and what to watch out for.So thats the type of guy we need.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#82 » by KGdaBom » Wed May 29, 2019 1:44 am

Krapinsky wrote:For a team with so many needs, i can't justify taking a Center at 11 unless he is clearly BPA and I don't see Hayes being a whole tier ahead of the other guys available.

If you don't like him as a center draft him as a PF. Regardless he's a baller and one of the younger players in the draft.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#83 » by Krapinsky » Wed May 29, 2019 2:05 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Krapinsky wrote:For a team with so many needs, i can't justify taking a Center at 11 unless he is clearly BPA and I don't see Hayes being a whole tier ahead of the other guys available.

If you don't like him as a center draft him as a PF. Regardless he's a baller and one of the younger players in the draft.


Draft/Call him what you want, but unless he comes with a time machine he's not going to be able to play next to Towns for any meaningful minutes so he is going to languish on the bench. All NBA teams want these days is shooting and defensive versatility. Hayes, who looks like a bonafide rim running center prospect, is neither. That said, I like him as a center prospect on the right team.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#84 » by KGdaBom » Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 am

Krapinsky wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Krapinsky wrote:For a team with so many needs, i can't justify taking a Center at 11 unless he is clearly BPA and I don't see Hayes being a whole tier ahead of the other guys available.

If you don't like him as a center draft him as a PF. Regardless he's a baller and one of the younger players in the draft.


Draft/Call him what you want, but unless he comes with a time machine he's not going to be able to play next to Towns for any meaningful minutes so he is going to languish on the bench. All NBA teams want these days is shooting and defensive versatility. Hayes, who looks like a bonafide rim running center prospect, is neither. That said, I like him as a center prospect on the right team.

If he's what I think he is he will have no problem playing 30 minutes per game. Maybe more.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#85 » by Klomp » Wed May 29, 2019 2:50 am

KGdaBom wrote:If he's what I think he is he will have no problem playing 30 minutes per game. Maybe more.

On some team, sure. Not in Minnesota, where some guy named Karl-Anthony Towns already has a firm hold on the post.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#86 » by KGdaBom » Wed May 29, 2019 3:15 am

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:If he's what I think he is he will have no problem playing 30 minutes per game. Maybe more.

On some team, sure. Not in Minnesota, where some guy named Karl-Anthony Towns already has a firm hold on the post.

positionless basketball. Hayes and KAT would be our bigs. A rich man's Clint Capela. That is my comparison.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#87 » by Klomp » Wed May 29, 2019 3:23 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:If he's what I think he is he will have no problem playing 30 minutes per game. Maybe more.

On some team, sure. Not in Minnesota, where some guy named Karl-Anthony Towns already has a firm hold on the post.

positionless basketball. Hayes and KAT would be our bigs. A rich man's Clint Capela. That is my comparison.

I think you're taking positionless basketball the opposite way from which it was intended. You compare Hayes to Capela, but Towns doesn't fit the role of PJ Tucker at PF.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#88 » by Norseman79 » Wed May 29, 2019 4:09 am

I am thinking that KGdabom is saying that Hayes/Towns have the ability to guard some other 4's and to switch in the screen game. Here is the deal, if Hayes has the lateral quickness to play the 4 on defense, he can be a rim running center on offense as KAT shoots the 3 at a good clip. Part of the problem of the NBA becoming too soft and anti post basketball.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#89 » by Dewey » Wed May 29, 2019 1:43 pm

All of these long/lean/athletic bigs early on seem to be raw but with potential ... one of them will be the new Anthony Randolph. Bruno anyone?
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#90 » by KGdaBom » Wed May 29, 2019 1:43 pm

Norseman79 wrote:I am thinking that KGdabom is saying that Hayes/Towns have the ability to guard some other 4's and to switch in the screen game. Here is the deal, if Hayes has the lateral quickness to play the 4 on defense, he can be a rim running center on offense as KAT shoots the 3 at a good clip. Part of the problem of the NBA becoming too soft and anti post basketball.

Norseman you are quite accurate. My thinking is talent first and I see a big talent gap between Hayes who I'm 98% confident won't be available at pick 11 vs the players who will. He's actually my dream scenario pick for the Wolves.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#91 » by vagelis » Wed May 29, 2019 1:53 pm

Personally I prefer Bruno over Hayes. He is stronger and better overall athlete I think.
My opinion is that we need a player to help the defense and protect the rim.
Bruno seems to have the tools to do that and play next to Towns. He is quick and strong and can guard both pfs and centers I think.
Hayes may have more potential but right now Bruno is more ready.
I prefer him over Hachimura and Clarke(I like them both) because he has the height while the other two are both undersized.
Anyway, I will be happy with all of the following
Bol Bol,Bruno,Hachimura,Clarke, and maybe also some other players like Nassir Little etc
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#92 » by KGdaBom » Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 pm

vagelis wrote:Personally I prefer Bruno over Hayes. He is stronger and better overall athlete I think.
My opinion is that we need a player to help the defense and protect the rim.
Bruno seems to have the tools to do that and play next to Towns. He is quick and strong and can guard both pfs and centers I think.
Hayes may have more potential but right now Bruno is more ready.
I prefer him over Hachimura and Clarke(I like them both) because he has the height while the other two are both undersized.
Anyway, I will be happy with all of the following
Bol Bol,Bruno,Hachimura,Clarke, and maybe also some other players like Nassir Little etc

If you were a nationally recognized draft analyst you would be the only one picking Bruno over Hayes. Doesn't mean you're wrong just places you in an overwhelming minority. I don't like Hachimura, but for a combo forward he is not undersized. I've seen Hayes projected as high as pick 5 and as low as pick 12. The vast majority have him going 7-10.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#93 » by vagelis » Wed May 29, 2019 2:43 pm

Read on Twitter



Reading the comments in that tweet I also read the following
Additionally, Fernando's lane agility was 11.29 seconds and Hayes' was 11.74.

From what I have seen Fernando has a very good compilation of strength,speed and agility for a big man.
Seems like the measurements agree with the eye test
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#94 » by Dewey » Wed May 29, 2019 3:25 pm

vagelis wrote:Personally I prefer Bruno over Hayes. He is stronger and better overall athlete I think.
My opinion is that we need a player to help the defense and protect the rim.
Bruno seems to have the tools to do that and play next to Towns. He is quick and strong and can guard both pfs and centers I think.
Hayes may have more potential but right now Bruno is more ready.
I prefer him over Hachimura and Clarke(I like them both) because he has the height while the other two are both undersized.
Anyway, I will be happy with all of the following
Bol Bol,Bruno,Hachimura,Clarke, and maybe also some other players like Nassir Little etc

I like Bol Bol and Bruno ... Nassir would be a mere consolation. Not big on Hachimure or Clark have less fit here IMO.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#95 » by Killboard » Wed May 29, 2019 3:46 pm

vagelis wrote:Personally I prefer Bruno over Hayes. He is stronger and better overall athlete I think.
My opinion is that we need a player to help the defense and protect the rim.
Bruno seems to have the tools to do that and play next to Towns. He is quick and strong and can guard both pfs and centers I think.
Hayes may have more potential but right now Bruno is more ready.
I prefer him over Hachimura and Clarke(I like them both) because he has the height while the other two are both undersized.
Anyway, I will be happy with all of the following
Bol Bol,Bruno,Hachimura,Clarke, and maybe also some other players like Nassir Little etc


The problem is IMO Fernando, Hayes or KAT aren't good running around screens, which is what small ball brings: one traditional big setting the picks, and the classic PF being replaced by a perimeter player who excel at rebounding and defending bigs. In that scenario, Clarke could excel since he has both quick feet to navigate screens but also a excel as a weak side protector.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#96 » by KGdaBom » Wed May 29, 2019 5:15 pm

vagelis wrote:
Read on Twitter



Reading the comments in that tweet I also read the following
Additionally, Fernando's lane agility was 11.29 seconds and Hayes' was 11.74.

From what I have seen Fernando has a very good compilation of strength,speed and agility for a big man.
Seems like the measurements agree with the eye test

Something has to be wrong with your numbers for the shuttle. I notice you didn't mention anything about standing or running Vertical. Also Hayes just turned 19 last week. Bruno is about 2 years older. Had a hard time finding combine numbers but from what I was able to find. Hayes about 2 inches taller with 3 inches more wingspan.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#97 » by Klomp » Wed May 29, 2019 5:27 pm

tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#98 » by Klomp » Wed May 29, 2019 5:34 pm

Read on Twitter
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#99 » by SmokeyPaw » Wed May 29, 2019 6:34 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:I am thinking that KGdabom is saying that Hayes/Towns have the ability to guard some other 4's and to switch in the screen game. Here is the deal, if Hayes has the lateral quickness to play the 4 on defense, he can be a rim running center on offense as KAT shoots the 3 at a good clip. Part of the problem of the NBA becoming too soft and anti post basketball.

Norseman you are quite accurate. My thinking is talent first and I see a big talent gap between Hayes who I'm 98% confident won't be available at pick 11 vs the players who will. He's actually my dream scenario pick for the Wolves.


Not sure I see a "big" talent gap between Hayes and Nic Claxton. Hayes projects a better as a rim runner due to his elite finishing, but Claxton is pretty good. Both can rim protect and switch - not sure who will be better defensively. Claxton is much more advanced as a ball handler and passer ( played pg part time last season )- if he can shoot (pretty questionable) he'd have the skillset to move to the 4 offensively.

I'd take Hayes over Claxton straight up, but I'd rather pick Claxton in the 20s than Hayes at 11.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft part deux 

Post#100 » by KGdaBom » Wed May 29, 2019 6:57 pm

SmokeyPaw wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:I am thinking that KGdabom is saying that Hayes/Towns have the ability to guard some other 4's and to switch in the screen game. Here is the deal, if Hayes has the lateral quickness to play the 4 on defense, he can be a rim running center on offense as KAT shoots the 3 at a good clip. Part of the problem of the NBA becoming too soft and anti post basketball.

Norseman you are quite accurate. My thinking is talent first and I see a big talent gap between Hayes who I'm 98% confident won't be available at pick 11 vs the players who will. He's actually my dream scenario pick for the Wolves.


Not sure I see a "big" talent gap between Hayes and Nic Claxton. Hayes projects a better as a rim runner due to his elite finishing, but Claxton is pretty good. Both can rim protect and switch - not sure who will be better defensively. Claxton is much more advanced as a ball handler and passer ( played pg part time last season )- if he can shoot (pretty questionable) he'd have the skillset to move to the 4 offensively.

I'd take Hayes over Claxton straight up, but I'd rather pick Claxton in the 20s than Hayes at 11.

I'm all in on Hayes. His age, size, and skillset screams a rich man's Clint Capela within a few years.
I admit I don't know much about Claxton yet and maybe he will be very good. Does he make his FTs?

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