GM Philosophies and Theory - general offseason discussion

[drsd]

Right now I would be OK if the off-season was simply to:
1) resign Vučević
2) trade Augustin for Ross' replacement, I will call it a SnT for Redick
3) draft a wing (e.g Langford-type)
4) sign a below MLE-level free-agent PF, such as Kaminsky
5) resign Carter-Willams and Briscoe to LLE deals
6) Pick up Iwundu's option (only 1.6M)

This team is built to be upgraded for the 2020/21 off-season.

I really expect the 2019/20 Magic to look very similar as the 2018/19 squad.
My above creates this mediocre squad:
Fultz/Carter-Williams/Briscoe
Fournier/Redick/Langford
Isaac/Iwundu/Frazier
Gordon/Kaminsky
Vučević/Bamba/Mozgov

[NotACat]

Right now I would be OK if the off-season was simply to:
1) resign Vučević
2) trade Augustin for Ross' replacement, I will call it a SnT for Redick
3) draft a wing (e.g Langford-type)
4) sign a below MLE-level free-agent PF, such as Kaminsky
5) resign Carter-Willams and Briscoe to LLE deals
6) Pick up Iwundu's option (only 1.6M)

This team is built to be upgraded for the 2020/21 off-season.

I really expect the 2019/20 Magic to look very similar as the 2018/19 squad.
My above creates this mediocre squad:
Fultz/Carter-Williams/Briscoe
Fournier/Redick/Langford
Isaac/Iwundu/Frazier
Gordon/Kaminsky
Vučević/Bamba/Mozgov

Why wouldn't we just retain TRoss?

And I doubt we move DJ until we see what Fultz can do for us on the court

[drsd]

Why wouldn't we just retain TRoss?

Signing Ross and Vučević is an economic challenge and hurts the team's FA ambitions for the 2020/21 season.

And I doubt we move DJ until we see what Fultz can do for us on the court

Agreed if the Magic want to stay put. If the Magic is to gamble on a 50-win season, then Orlando must move all-in on Fultz.

..

[NotACat]

Why wouldn't we just retain TRoss?

Signing Ross and Vučević is an economic challenge and hurts the team's FA ambitions for the 2020/21 season.

And I doubt we move DJ until we see what Fultz can do for us on the court

Agreed if the Magic want to stay put. If the Magic is to gamble on a 50-win season, then Orlando must move all-in on Fultz.

..

Retaining Vuc makes the TRoss decision easier since we'd be over the cap. Every contract is moveable and taking a swing later is hard to justify since we have a solid team right now, TRoss loves Orlando, the team and the city love TRoss. I think we need to realistic about Orlando's FA options before we start planning to sign FAs like we're LA or NY.

And we were nearly a 50 win team this year but we blew some 20 point leads and played about half the season without a competent backup PG. I think there is legit argument that we would be a 50 team if MCW was our backup PG instead of Jerian Grant.

[drsd]

And we were nearly a 50 win team this year ....

After falling back to -11 in the win-loss column, the Magic carved out what equates to a 54-win record the rest of the season.

..

[Bensational]

If the Rockets 'blow it up' this summer, what do you think is their new course of direction, and what has lead them to this point?

Would they blow up to rebuild around Harden again? Or are they disappointed with his playoff performances and are now looking for a new face of the franchise?

Personally, I think Chris Paul has been the ruin of that franchise. He hit his peak a long while ago and now he's very much a shell of his former self, but he's being paid more than ever. He's already forced the Clippers to blow up a team built around him, and now it looks like he's done the same to the Rockets.

That's probably too personal a take for a GM philosophy thread, though. So back to the original question: what direction do you think Houston will go next, considering that they have an MVP calibre player in his prime?

[MoMM]

If the Rockets 'blow it up' this summer, what do you think is their new course of direction, and what has lead them to this point?

Would they blow up to rebuild around Harden again? Or are they disappointed with his playoff performances and are now looking for a new face of the franchise?

Personally, I think Chris Paul has been the ruin of that franchise. He hit his peak a long while ago and now he's very much a shell of his former self, but he's being paid more than ever. He's already forced the Clippers to blow up a team built around him, and now it looks like he's done the same to the Rockets.

That's probably too personal a take for a GM philosophy thread, though. So back to the original question: what direction do you think Houston will go next, considering that they have an MVP calibre player in his prime?

Maybe trading CP3 for useful expiring contract players would help them. This way they would be able to compete next season, but the end goal would be 2020 offseason when most of of the contract would be expiring except Harden, Capela and some rookies.

For example: To Utah for a package around Favors, Korver and Crowder.

[Skin]

If the Rockets 'blow it up' this summer, what do you think is their new course of direction, and what has lead them to this point?

Would they blow up to rebuild around Harden again? Or are they disappointed with his playoff performances and are now looking for a new face of the franchise?

Personally, I think Chris Paul has been the ruin of that franchise. He hit his peak a long while ago and now he's very much a shell of his former self, but he's being paid more than ever. He's already forced the Clippers to blow up a team built around him, and now it looks like he's done the same to the Rockets.

That's probably too personal a take for a GM philosophy thread, though. So back to the original question: what direction do you think Houston will go next, considering that they have an MVP calibre player in his prime?

Honestly, Houston needs a guy like Vuc. Someone to take the offensive load off their wings.

If we had CP3 and Harden and our window to win was right now, I'd want us to keep Vuc too, but that's not the case.

If we can do a S&T that would be great. Gimme a 1st rounder and he's yours. Not interested in anything else.

[Def Swami]

On past Bill Simmons' podcasts, Daryl Morey is on record for saying that when he became GM of the Rockets, he went to ownership with two paths for building their team: tanking and not tanking. Based on his statistics, he proposed the most sure and quickest way to developing a winning team was to tank and draft a franchise player in the top of the lottery. His ownership group wanted no part of tanking at the time though, and since Morey has been there, they've never tanked. He has always tried to maximize his assets to build his team. And while they've fallen short of beating the Warriors, they've come damn close. The CP3 contract was always going to age poorly, but I don't blame Morey for going all in and trading for Chris Paul. I admire how aggressive he was and they built a team that could go toe to toe with one of the greatest teams in NBA history. Windows in the NBA are so short, and they have an MVP player and have to maximize their opportunities while he's in his prime.

Morey also believes in getting star players. Ever since he started in Houston, he has made it known that if you don't have star players, you're playing on the sidelines of the NBA. He's always been aggressive about hoarding assets to use in trades for star players, whether it's Tracy McGrady or James Harden. He's used those centerpieces to attract free agents, like Dwight Howard or Chris Paul.

They've done a decent job of drafting and developing players from Pat Beverly to Chandler Parsons to Clint Capela. They've made smart free agency signings like Eric Gordon. They've used almost every avenue possible to build this team without tanking, and they've done a great job.

Houston has a relatively new owner who bought the team about 1.5 years ago. It will be interesting to see what kind of path he wants to pursue. However, with new lottery odds and James Harden still at an MVP level, I have a hard time seeing Morey switching course. I think he's doing his due diligence and trying to make upgrades where he can to surround Harden with top tier talent that will help them go deep in the playoffs.

[Bensational]

On past Bill Simmons' podcasts, Daryl Morey is on record for saying that when he became GM of the Rockets, he went to ownership with two paths for building their team: tanking and not tanking. Based on his statistics, he proposed the most sure and quickest way to developing a winning team was to tank and draft a franchise player in the top of the lottery. His ownership group wanted no part of tanking at the time though, and since Morey has been there, they've never tanked. He has always tried to maximize his assets to build his team. And while they've fallen short of beating the Warriors, they've come damn close. The CP3 contract was always going to age poorly, but I don't blame Morey for going all in and trading for Chris Paul. I admire how aggressive he was and they built a team that could go toe to toe with one of the greatest teams in NBA history. Windows in the NBA are so short, and they have an MVP player and have to maximize their opportunities while he's in his prime.

Morey also believes in getting star players. Ever since he started in Houston, he has made it known that if you don't have star players, you're playing on the sidelines of the NBA. He's always been aggressive about hoarding assets to use in trades for star players, whether it's Tracy McGrady or James Harden. He's used those centerpieces to attract free agents, like Dwight Howard or Chris Paul.

They've done a decent job of drafting and developing players from Pat Beverly to Chandler Parsons to Clint Capela. They've made smart free agency signings like Eric Gordon. They've used almost every avenue possible to build this team without tanking, and they've done a great job.

Houston has a relatively new owner who bought the team about 1.5 years ago. It will be interesting to see what kind of path he wants to pursue. However, with new lottery odds and James Harden still at an MVP level, I have a hard time seeing Morey switching course. I think he's doing his due diligence and trying to make upgrades where he can to surround Harden with top tier talent that will help them go deep in the playoffs.

Yeah, I can't imagine Morey trading Harden. If he ever did, the return would be insane. Harden is a far superior talent than AD, and he's locked into a long term deal. Morey would likely get an entire team back for Harden alone. Whether he gets stars or not is anyone's guess.

I really like what Morey has done with that team. It's interesting, because over the course of the years he's targeted a lot of the players I've wanted Orlando to build around. It's almost like Houston is the team I want Orlando to be, but Orlando is my team. Tmac, Harden, Dwight. Sure, none have had success in Houston.

I think he's backed himself into a pretty tough corner with some of those deals (namely Paul). But he's so crafty that if anyone was capable of getting out of it, it would be him. I actually only just noticed that Capella's deal is declining, and goes down to $14.8M next season. So crafty.

[Icemanbrfc]

On past Bill Simmons' podcasts, Daryl Morey is on record for saying that when he became GM of the Rockets, he went to ownership with two paths for building their team: tanking and not tanking. Based on his statistics, he proposed the most sure and quickest way to developing a winning team was to tank and draft a franchise player in the top of the lottery. His ownership group wanted no part of tanking at the time though, and since Morey has been there, they've never tanked. He has always tried to maximize his assets to build his team. And while they've fallen short of beating the Warriors, they've come damn close. The CP3 contract was always going to age poorly, but I don't blame Morey for going all in and trading for Chris Paul. I admire how aggressive he was and they built a team that could go toe to toe with one of the greatest teams in NBA history. Windows in the NBA are so short, and they have an MVP player and have to maximize their opportunities while he's in his prime.

Morey also believes in getting star players. Ever since he started in Houston, he has made it known that if you don't have star players, you're playing on the sidelines of the NBA. He's always been aggressive about hoarding assets to use in trades for star players, whether it's Tracy McGrady or James Harden. He's used those centerpieces to attract free agents, like Dwight Howard or Chris Paul.

They've done a decent job of drafting and developing players from Pat Beverly to Chandler Parsons to Clint Capela. They've made smart free agency signings like Eric Gordon. They've used almost every avenue possible to build this team without tanking, and they've done a great job.

Houston has a relatively new owner who bought the team about 1.5 years ago. It will be interesting to see what kind of path he wants to pursue. However, with new lottery odds and James Harden still at an MVP level, I have a hard time seeing Morey switching course. I think he's doing his due diligence and trying to make upgrades where he can to surround Harden with top tier talent that will help them go deep in the playoffs.

Yeah, I can't imagine Morey trading Harden. If he ever did, the return would be insane. Harden is a far superior talent than AD, and he's locked into a long term deal. Morey would likely get an entire team back for Harden alone. Whether he gets stars or not is anyone's guess.

I really like what Morey has done with that team. It's interesting, because over the course of the years he's targeted a lot of the players I've wanted Orlando to build around. It's almost like Houston is the team I want Orlando to be, but Orlando is my team. Tmac, Harden, Dwight. Sure, none have had success in Houston.

I think he's backed himself into a pretty tough corner with some of those deals (namely Paul). But he's so crafty that if anyone was capable of getting out of it, it would be him. I actually only just noticed that Capella's deal is declining, and goes down to $14.8M next season. So crafty.

They would want plenty back for Harden. Imo they should do it, and rebuild that roster without Harden.

Sent from my I3213 using Tapatalk

[BadMofoPimp]

Why wouldn't we just retain TRoss?

Signing Ross and Vučević is an economic challenge and hurts the team's FA ambitions for the 2020/21 season.

And I doubt we move DJ until we see what Fultz can do for us on the court

Agreed if the Magic want to stay put. If the Magic is to gamble on a 50-win season, then Orlando must move all-in on Fultz.

..

Fultz may not even be able to play this season while rehabbing.

[BadMofoPimp]

On past Bill Simmons' podcasts, Daryl Morey is on record for saying that when he became GM of the Rockets, he went to ownership with two paths for building their team: tanking and not tanking. Based on his statistics, he proposed the most sure and quickest way to developing a winning team was to tank and draft a franchise player in the top of the lottery. His ownership group wanted no part of tanking at the time though, and since Morey has been there, they've never tanked. He has always tried to maximize his assets to build his team. And while they've fallen short of beating the Warriors, they've come damn close. The CP3 contract was always going to age poorly, but I don't blame Morey for going all in and trading for Chris Paul. I admire how aggressive he was and they built a team that could go toe to toe with one of the greatest teams in NBA history. Windows in the NBA are so short, and they have an MVP player and have to maximize their opportunities while he's in his prime.

Morey also believes in getting star players. Ever since he started in Houston, he has made it known that if you don't have star players, you're playing on the sidelines of the NBA. He's always been aggressive about hoarding assets to use in trades for star players, whether it's Tracy McGrady or James Harden. He's used those centerpieces to attract free agents, like Dwight Howard or Chris Paul.

They've done a decent job of drafting and developing players from Pat Beverly to Chandler Parsons to Clint Capela. They've made smart free agency signings like Eric Gordon. They've used almost every avenue possible to build this team without tanking, and they've done a great job.

Houston has a relatively new owner who bought the team about 1.5 years ago. It will be interesting to see what kind of path he wants to pursue. However, with new lottery odds and James Harden still at an MVP level, I have a hard time seeing Morey switching course. I think he's doing his due diligence and trying to make upgrades where he can to surround Harden with top tier talent that will help them go deep in the playoffs.

Yeah, I can't imagine Morey trading Harden. If he ever did, the return would be insane. Harden is a far superior talent than AD, and he's locked into a long term deal. Morey would likely get an entire team back for Harden alone. Whether he gets stars or not is anyone's guess.

I really like what Morey has done with that team. It's interesting, because over the course of the years he's targeted a lot of the players I've wanted Orlando to build around. It's almost like Houston is the team I want Orlando to be, but Orlando is my team. Tmac, Harden, Dwight. Sure, none have had success in Houston.

I think he's backed himself into a pretty tough corner with some of those deals (namely Paul). But he's so crafty that if anyone was capable of getting out of it, it would be him. I actually only just noticed that Capella's deal is declining, and goes down to $14.8M next season. So crafty.

They would want plenty back for Harden. Imo they should do it, and rebuild that roster without Harden.

Sent from my I3213 using Tapatalk

As long as CP3 is on that team and without Harden, they would be strapped for another 3 years at least before they could be competitive again due to cap restraints.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Right now I would be OK if the off-season was simply to:
1) resign Vučević
2) trade Augustin for Ross' replacement, I will call it a SnT for Redick
3) draft a wing (e.g Langford-type)
4) sign a below MLE-level free-agent PF, such as Kaminsky
5) resign Carter-Willams and Briscoe to LLE deals
6) Pick up Iwundu's option (only 1.6M)

This team is built to be upgraded for the 2020/21 off-season.

I really expect the 2019/20 Magic to look very similar as the 2018/19 squad.
My above creates this mediocre squad:
Fultz/Carter-Williams/Briscoe
Fournier/Redick/Langford
Isaac/Iwundu/Frazier
Gordon/Kaminsky
Vučević/Bamba/Mozgov

Why wouldn't we just retain TRoss?

And I doubt we move DJ until we see what Fultz can do for us on the court

if they're hell-bent on re-signing Vuc then we better re sign TRoss and come close to the Tax Bracket. If not they're wasting $ on Vuc and this team to go nowhere. There is no way I even think about not re-signing TRoss and hoping I can convince other random players to come to Orlando. TRoss knows his role and looked like he thoroughly enjoyed it so getting him probably wouldn't be difficult. That team above maybe wins 35 games as constructed and we still only have 2 players maybe only 1 player who can shoot the ball (Fournier/Redick).

Scenario above could be Vuc 90M over 4 years going down starting at 25M. TRoss would be 4 year 50M starting at 14.5M going down. 16th pick & use MLE 3 year 17M and we'd be 2M away from the Tax. In 2020-2021 Magic would already be 9M over the cap even with Moz, DJ & Iwundu expiring.

That would be worst case scenario IMO as I don't really see much growth out of random individual growths from AG and JI and to be fair I think AG is about what he is and Isaac could maybe improve on his shot %'s. Fultz is pretty much Russian roulette, Bamba is learning and well injuries are bound to happen at some point.

[MagicMatic]

On past Bill Simmons' podcasts, Daryl Morey is on record for saying that when he became GM of the Rockets, he went to ownership with two paths for building their team: tanking and not tanking. Based on his statistics, he proposed the most sure and quickest way to developing a winning team was to tank and draft a franchise player in the top of the lottery. His ownership group wanted no part of tanking at the time though, and since Morey has been there, they've never tanked. He has always tried to maximize his assets to build his team. And while they've fallen short of beating the Warriors, they've come damn close. The CP3 contract was always going to age poorly, but I don't blame Morey for going all in and trading for Chris Paul. I admire how aggressive he was and they built a team that could go toe to toe with one of the greatest teams in NBA history. Windows in the NBA are so short, and they have an MVP player and have to maximize their opportunities while he's in his prime.

Morey also believes in getting star players. Ever since he started in Houston, he has made it known that if you don't have star players, you're playing on the sidelines of the NBA. He's always been aggressive about hoarding assets to use in trades for star players, whether it's Tracy McGrady or James Harden. He's used those centerpieces to attract free agents, like Dwight Howard or Chris Paul.

They've done a decent job of drafting and developing players from Pat Beverly to Chandler Parsons to Clint Capela. They've made smart free agency signings like Eric Gordon. They've used almost every avenue possible to build this team without tanking, and they've done a great job.

Houston has a relatively new owner who bought the team about 1.5 years ago. It will be interesting to see what kind of path he wants to pursue. However, with new lottery odds and James Harden still at an MVP level, I have a hard time seeing Morey switching course. I think he's doing his due diligence and trying to make upgrades where he can to surround Harden with top tier talent that will help them go deep in the playoffs.

He’s definitely done the most he could do to compete with the Warriors. Acquiring and building the team around Harden solidified the direction he was taking by finding players to compliment his style of play. Having elite scoring talent like that doesn’t come around very often and is fleeting. Morey is lucky OKC didn’t value Harden like they should have. They traded away his biggest obstacle to overcome in rebuilding a true contender.

Looking at Houston’s blueprint, they traded for an absolute star from OKC only three seasons into the league. If they weren’t going to tank to draft their elite player, they made a deal to acquire one that could lead their team for the foreseeable future. The takeaway from Houston’s success begs the questions: Does Orlando already have that star on the roster? Are they trading for one or are they drafting one? If none of those questions can/have been answered in an almost decade long rebuild, then something is wrong.

[MagicMatic]

Right now I would be OK if the off-season was simply to:
1) resign Vučević
2) trade Augustin for Ross' replacement, I will call it a SnT for Redick
3) draft a wing (e.g Langford-type)
4) sign a below MLE-level free-agent PF, such as Kaminsky
5) resign Carter-Willams and Briscoe to LLE deals
6) Pick up Iwundu's option (only 1.6M)

This team is built to be upgraded for the 2020/21 off-season.

I really expect the 2019/20 Magic to look very similar as the 2018/19 squad.
My above creates this mediocre squad:
Fultz/Carter-Williams/Briscoe
Fournier/Redick/Langford
Isaac/Iwundu/Frazier
Gordon/Kaminsky
Vučević/Bamba/Mozgov

Why wouldn't we just retain TRoss?

And I doubt we move DJ until we see what Fultz can do for us on the court

if they're hell-bent on re-signing Vuc then we better re sign TRoss and come close to the Tax Bracket. If not they're wasting $ on Vuc and this team to go nowhere. There is no way I even think about not re-signing TRoss and hoping I can convince other random players to come to Orlando. TRoss knows his role and looked like he thoroughly enjoyed it so getting him probably wouldn't be difficult. That team above maybe wins 35 games as constructed and we still only have 2 players maybe only 1 player who can shoot the ball (Fournier/Redick).

Scenario above could be Vuc 90M over 4 years going down starting at 25M. TRoss would be 4 year 50M starting at 14.5M going down. 16th pick & use MLE 3 year 17M and we'd be 2M away from the Tax. In 2020-2021 Magic would already be 9M over the cap even with Moz, DJ & Iwundu expiring.

That would be worst case scenario IMO as I don't really see much growth out of random individual growths from AG and JI and to be fair I think AG is about what he is and Isaac could maybe improve on his shot %'s. Fultz is pretty much Russian roulette, Bamba is learning and well injuries are bound to happen at some point.

This is where I stand with things as well. They either need to bring both of them back or neither. Pick a direction.

If they choose to bring them back it says they are content with last season and can actually see enough internal potential growth from the youth. At the very least, Vuc and Ross are tradable for something down the line if they aren’t massively overpaid and still carry movable contracts.

If they choose not to bring them back it says they want to actually build the team they want heading into year 3. Because, as we both know, the majority of the starting lineup is still Hennigans. Bringing back Vuc and Ross continues that trend.

[Skin]

If Houston is ready to blow it up being as good as they are, what does that say about us and our Vuc/TRoss situation?

[zaymon]

If Houston is ready to blow it up being as good as they are, what does that say about us and our Vuc/TRoss situation?

nothing

[MartinsIzAfraud]

If Houston is ready to blow it up being as good as they are, what does that say about us and our Vuc/TRoss situation?

don't overpay for role players/aging all stars???

If anything the CP3 deal was the biggest mistake they made. EVERYONE knew CP3 was going to resign in Houston there was no need to give him the max other than to swing the dyk and say we'll overpay to get stars to try and beat golden state. CP3 was Hardens sidekick and injuries have killed him the last few years. The Capela deal is pretty meh but looking at CP3 and Hardens deals it's hard to accept that much $ for a dude who does what lobs rebounds and dunks?

Our FO has said they're not going to get into the bidding aspects and if it's over x amount then so be it. We're years away from getting out of the first round and depending on what happens in the East (other teams FA plans) we might not even make the playoffs with or without Vuc/TRoss.

[BadMofoPimp]

If Houston is ready to blow it up being as good as they are, what does that say about us and our Vuc/TRoss situation?

don't overpay for role players/aging all stars???

If anything the CP3 deal was the biggest mistake they made. EVERYONE knew CP3 was going to resign in Houston there was no need to give him the max other than to swing the dyk and say we'll overpay to get stars to try and beat golden state. CP3 was Hardens sidekick and injuries have killed him the last few years. The Capela deal is pretty meh but looking at CP3 and Hardens deals it's hard to accept that much $ for a dude who does what lobs rebounds and dunks?

Our FO has said they're not going to get into the bidding aspects and if it's over x amount then so be it. We're years away from getting out of the first round and depending on what happens in the East (other teams FA plans) we might not even make the playoffs with or without Vuc/TRoss.

No team in the entire NBA would pay more than $25 mil per for over 3 years for CP3. Houston rewarded him with $40 mil per and he hadn't won them nothing.