Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo

[moocow007]

KD, AD, and a 3rd superstar like Kyrie or Kemba, barring injuries of course, wins you a championship in year 1 and probably year 2 3 and 4. Doesn’t matter who the supporting cast is. I’m that confident in how dominant they would be together

Miami couldnt even do that in their prime when the league wasn't ready for a big 3, Im not even sure the Knicks make it out of the east next year with that lineup much less win it all.

Championship in the 1st year and probably 2,3 and 4 is probably excessive. But, in the 4 years that the Miami "Big 3" were together they made it to the championship every year and won 2 of the 4 they were in. So maybe not immediately and every year but it was hardly the wrong tact to take.

The Warriors are built in the same exact way and have achieved the same type of regular success. You load as much top tier stars as you can get into a system that fits their skills and then surround them with veteran role players that are willing to chase titles for the vet minimum. The assumption is that Perry and Mills will be looking to do the same (you convince KD and another top star to sign, try to trade for a 3rd, then start talking championships to veterans that can fit the system they want to run).

None of the teams in the East appear to be invincible. The Raptors play great team play but if Leonard leaves they are back in the middle of the playoff pack again. The Celtics are already looking like they may need a reshuffle. The Sixers are not world beaters. The Bucks IMO over achieved and eventually got exposed by a smart veteran team with talent and a game plan.

[GONYK]

KD, AD, and a 3rd superstar like Kyrie or Kemba, barring injuries of course, wins you a championship in year 1 and probably year 2 3 and 4. Doesn’t matter who the supporting cast is. I’m that confident in how dominant they would be together

Miami couldnt even do that in their prime when the league wasn't ready for a big 3, Im not even sure the Knicks make it out of the east next year with that lineup much less win it all.

Remember the drama surrounding them not learning early on how to play together. Lets not forget they added Ray Allen to the mix.

They still made it to the Finals the first year.

Then they won a ring the 2nd year.

Then they added Ray Allen (which I don't understand the significance of bringing up in context) and won another ring.

2 rings in 3 years despite not fitting well.

KD/AD/KI would be an immensely better fit.

[Oscirus]

KD, AD, and a 3rd superstar like Kyrie or Kemba, barring injuries of course, wins you a championship in year 1 and probably year 2 3 and 4. Doesn’t matter who the supporting cast is. I’m that confident in how dominant they would be together

Miami couldnt even do that in their prime when the league wasn't ready for a big 3, Im not even sure the Knicks make it out of the east next year with that lineup much less win it all.

Miami made the finals ever year. what team are you taking over the knicks in the east with that hypothetical big 3?

Since I feel that Kawhi leonard is re-signing, I'm taking toronto as currently assembled.

[Tron Carter]

everybody loves bringing up the melo deal. amnestying Chauncey Billups is what fcked this franchise for at least a decade. If that had been used properly on amare we’d have viewed that deal a lot differently. like I said who’s crying about felton, mozgov, and wilson chandler? what about landry fields? gallo just had his first healthy season in god knows how long.

[F N 11]

Again, not even remotely comparable. But let’s keep making the comparison.

You're trying to say something but you're not saying anything.

no that’s what you’re doing. we’re not trading ad into the same situation melo had. we’re not trading assets to get the same caliber player as melo.

when you trade for AD, KD and Kyrie follow. that’s where your argument falls apart. you can’t so late that situation to amare, melo, chandler. bring up all the injury concerns you want they’re not comparable.

you actually bringing up guys like mozgov, felton and chandler actually proves my point. because none of them turned out to be shyt. remember when the hold up on the melo deal was mozgov? now he’s an albatross.

you bring up depth but none of those young guys can compete in a playoff situation rn. knox has a historically bad rookie season. idk what turn around you expect from these kids that just lead our team to a league worst record. vet ring chasers in the mold of danny green, james ennis, mike scott etc will be signed for bargains and provide sufficient post season depth. guys that have actually competed in playoff games and know what it takes to win in those atmospheres.

the idea that we’re gonna sign KD, a second max and just roll the ball out with them and kids is a fantasy. which is why I’m not over here crying about rj because there’s a good chance he never plays a game in a knicks uniform.

You bring up Mozgov and Felton but not Gallo, Chandler, and the picks. (easy to say they suck now but at the time we gave up a lot no matter how you put it). We would actually be giving up way more value in the Mavs pick and this years 3rd. Possibly another 1st if the Pels wanna really give it to us. Many people would give that up and be happy but there would also be a lot of complaining.

Not buying it. Particularly because I believe Mitch could be a difference maker right now. Not buying 40 mpg for the big 3 and hoping ring chasers can cut it. I have even wondered if KD etc does come how much is Deandre Jordan willing to give up? Rather have the kids im sticking to my guns.

[GONYK]

everybody loves bringing up the melo deal. amnestying Chauncey Billups is what fcked this franchise for at least a decade. If that had been used properly on amare we’d have viewed that deal a lot differently. like I said who’s crying about felton, mozgov, and wilson chandler? what about landry fields? gallo just had his first healthy season in god knows how long.

Also, we weren't adding Melo to two elite players.

Nobody is advocating for trading the farm for AD in a vacuum. It's in the context of adding him to KD and Kyrie.

The two situations aren't even remotely comparable other than Gallo, Chandler and Mozgov had as much of a chance of leading us to a title in the next 4 years as Knox/DSJ/Mitch/RJ do.

[moocow007]

Who has more upside strictly as a jumpshooter, Barrett or Culver?

Neither one of them shoots well from the free throw line, which is a problem. However Culver did improve his FT% by 5% in his sophomore year, and I sure hope Barrett will do the same.

It’s becoming harder and harder to be a winning player in the NBA without a reliable jumpshot. And the jumpshot is a question mark for all those top prospects. I wouldn’t want to be Scott Perry, whoever we take at 3 will be far from a sure thing.

The Knicks are one of the least talented teams in the NBA. They lack an alpha. They lack a no.1 option. They are one of the worst offensive teams in the NBA. They lack trade assets. You take the one that is most likely to be able to be a star player (especially offensive start player) in the NBA not who might become the better shooter. Neither guy is a shooter nor is that what their respective games are about for them to be considered in the top 5 of this draft. I wouldn't be so stuck on trying to figure out who might be the better shooter. One might be able to shoot better but if the guy can't create his own shot in the NBA or that can't dominate, drafting a spot up shooing role player at 3 will be a bigger fail than drafting a Demar Derozan type that can score but not shoot 3's. But if it helps, a lot of scouts believe that Barrett's shooting isn't due to poor form or lack of BB IQ and rather just taking more than he should due to the lack of other 3 point options on the roster (and Duke's one weakness on offense was the lack of 3 point shooting, they were ranked 329 in the nation in 3 point accuracy...which...for a championship caliber team was just abysmal).

[F N 11]

Miami couldnt even do that in their prime when the league wasn't ready for a big 3, Im not even sure the Knicks make it out of the east next year with that lineup much less win it all.

Remember the drama surrounding them not learning early on how to play together. Lets not forget they added Ray Allen to the mix.

They still made it to the Finals the first year.

Then they won a ring the 2nd year.

Then they added Ray Allen (which I don't understand the significance of bringing up in context) and won another ring.

2 rings in 3 years despite not fitting well.

KD/AD/KI would be an immensely better fit.

I have Mitch penciled in as #3 of the big 3. He's that good imo. I'm just tired of not committing to our own players. If it does go down I promise you the Pelicans would be a force for years with Mitch/Zion front court. Thats fuqing dreamy.

[Oscirus]

KD, AD, and a 3rd superstar like Kyrie or Kemba, barring injuries of course, wins you a championship in year 1 and probably year 2 3 and 4. Doesn’t matter who the supporting cast is. I’m that confident in how dominant they would be together

Miami couldnt even do that in their prime when the league wasn't ready for a big 3, Im not even sure the Knicks make it out of the east next year with that lineup much less win it all.

Championship in the 1st year and probably 2,3 and 4 is probably excessive. But, in the 4 years that the Miami "Big 3" were together they made it to the championship every year and won 2 of the 4 they were in. So maybe not immediately and every year but it was hardly the wrong tact to take.

The Warriors are built in the same exact way and have achieved the same type of regular success. You load as much top tier stars as you can get into a system that fits their skills and then surround them with veteran role players that are willing to chase titles for the vet minimum. The assumption is that Perry and Mills will be looking to do the same (you convince KD and another top star to sign, try to trade for a 3rd, then start talking championships to veterans that can fit the system they want to run).

None of the teams in the East appear to be invincible. The Raptors play great team play but if Leonard leaves they are back in the middle of the playoff pack again. The Celtics are already looking like they may need a reshuffle. The Sixers are not world beaters. The Bucks IMO over achieved and eventually got exposed by a smart veteran team with talent and a game plan.

Admittedly the four year championship streak was impressive but thats still 2 out of 4 and they were lucky to beat the spurs. The heat had a hell of a headstart on the rest of the legaue. People are aware of that now, it's going to be alot harder to pull off.


Warriors are a different animal altogether because their big 3 was drafted and all grew together and they had the flexibility to add big pieces as needed. They had fairly deep teams.

[Tron Carter]

Mitch and Zion is a bad fit unless Mitch turns into brook lopez. Zion is a point center.

[F N 11]

Who has more upside strictly as a jumpshooter, Barrett or Culver?

Neither one of them shoots well from the free throw line, which is a problem. However Culver did improve his FT% by 5% in his sophomore year, and I sure hope Barrett will do the same.

It’s becoming harder and harder to be a winning player in the NBA without a reliable jumpshot. And the jumpshot is a question mark for all those top prospects. I wouldn’t want to be Scott Perry, whoever we take at 3 will be far from a sure thing.

The Knicks are one of the least talented teams in the NBA. They lack an alpha. They lack a no.1 option. They are one of the worst offensive teams in the NBA. They lack trade assets. You take the one that is most likely to be able to be a star player (especially offensive start player) in the NBA not who might become the better shooter. Neither guy is a shooter nor is that what their respective games are about for them to be considered in the top 5 of this draft. I wouldn't be so stuck on trying to figure out who might be the better shooter. One might be able to shoot better but if the guy can't create his own shot in the NBA or that can't dominate, drafting a spot up shooing role player at 3 will be a bigger fail than drafting a Demar Derozan type that can score but not shoot 3's. But if it helps, a lot of scouts believe that Barrett's shooting isn't due to poor form or lack of BB IQ and rather just taking more than he should due to the lack of other 3 point options on the roster (and Duke's one weakness on offense was the lack of 3 point shooting, they were ranked 329 in the nation in 3 point accuracy...which...for a championship caliber team was just abysmal).

This guys gets it. RJ has everything you look for in a #1. dude did all this without being surrounded by shooters. Decision making is his #1 weakness and can be improved easily. trust me RJ's flaws suck but we were begging Knox to drive all year. Its a mentality you simply have to have and RJ has it. Him having an NBA ready body is another plus. He's going to live at the line. I remember a relentless attacker winning a chip. Not comparing them but D Wade..

Wade in 08-09 averaged 30 7 and 5 as an attacker. 52 % from 2 and 32% from 3. Similar to Rj's Duke percentages. If RJ shot Less 3's his percentages would of been better. Not comparing the 2 just comparing play styles.

[NYF13]

Do you guys wonder why RJ Barrett mentioned KNOX and TRIER together when asking about Knicks recently?

1. There was a rumor NO do not prefer Knox in the trade.
2. There is the truth that KD is tight with Trier.
3. Dave Griffin mentioned on public TV after NYK beat MIL that Fizdale has done good job with Trier and Mitch.

If I am NYK FO, I am open to trading DSJr. + Frankie + Lance (7m) + 4 FRPs (Dallas 2 and NYK 2) + Jenkins + Garrett + Ellinson.
And yes I checked the salaries match! $21.8

But NO is high on Mitch, #3 pick and Trier. So this is pretty much why Davis not a NYK yet!!!! Pretty simple.

[KnixinSix]

Who has more upside strictly as a jumpshooter, Barrett or Culver?

Neither one of them shoots well from the free throw line, which is a problem. However Culver did improve his FT% by 5% in his sophomore year, and I sure hope Barrett will do the same.

It’s becoming harder and harder to be a winning player in the NBA without a reliable jumpshot. And the jumpshot is a question mark for all those top prospects. I wouldn’t want to be Scott Perry, whoever we take at 3 will be far from a sure thing.

The Knicks are one of the least talented teams in the NBA. They lack an alpha. They lack a no.1 option. They are one of the worst offensive teams in the NBA. They lack trade assets. You take the one that is most likely to be able to be a star player (especially offensive start player) in the NBA not who might become the better shooter. Neither guy is a shooter nor is that what their respective games are about for them to be considered in the top 5 of this draft. I wouldn't be so stuck on trying to figure out who might be the better shooter. One might be able to shoot better but if the guy can't create his own shot in the NBA or that can't dominate, drafting a spot up shooing role player at 3 will be a bigger fail than drafting a Demar Derozan type that can score but not shoot 3's. But if it helps, a lot of scouts believe that Barrett's shooting isn't due to poor form or lack of BB IQ and rather just taking more than he should due to the lack of other 3 point options on the roster (and Duke's one weakness on offense was the lack of 3 point shooting, they were ranked 329 in the nation in 3 point accuracy...which...for a championship caliber team was just abysmal).

This guys gets it. RJ has everything you look for in a #1. dude did all this without being surrounded by shooters. Decision making is his #1 weakness and can be improved easily. trust me RJ's flaws suck but we were begging Knox to drive all year. Its a mentality you simply have to have and RJ has it. Him having an NBA ready body is another plus. He's going to live at the line. I remember a relentless attacker winning a chip. Not comparing them but D Wade..

Wade in 08-09 averaged 30 7 and 5 as an attacker. 52 % from 2 and 32% from 3. Similar to Rj's Duke percentages. If RJ shot Less 3's his percentages would of been better. Not comparing the 2 just comparing play styles.

RJ Barrett undoubtedly has tremendous upside. Tremendous. But how long he takes to get there is another story.

AD is an established top player in the entire NBA and entering his prime years at 26. Its hard to say no to that if you can get him.

[NoLayupRule]

I did that silly and addictive knicks wall sim thing and got Durant, Beverly, ariza, cousins and then traded for Beal.
Got me 65 wins

I really think Durant and Beverly and Beal is about as nice a team as we could hope for
That’s balance and toughness and defense and shooting

[NoLayupRule]

Do you guys wonder why RJ Barrett mentioned KNOX and TRIER together when asking about Knicks recently?

1. There was a rumor NO do not prefer Knox in the trade.
2. There is the truth that KD is tight with Trier.
3. Dave Griffin mentioned on public TV after NYK beat MIL that Fizdale has done good job with Trier and Mitch.

If I am NYK FO, I am open to trading DSJr. + Frankie + Lance (7m) + 4 FRPs (Dallas 2 and NYK 2) + Jenkins + Garrett + Ellinson.
And yes I checked the salaries match! $21.8

But NO is high on Mitch, #3 pick and Trier. So this is pretty much why Davis not a NYK yet!!!! Pretty simple.

well that and also the facts that

1) griffin is still trying to retain him
2) no team is making offers yet as griffin isn’t listening yet
3) clearly we’re waiting until after we sign the other big dogs to do any trade - for salary reasons

[Knicksfan1992]

Mitch and Zion is a bad fit unless Mitch turns into brook lopez. Zion is a point center.

Zion will not be able to survive as a full time center. Mitch is almost as good of a fit next to Zion as you're going to find. The only thing that would make it better is if one of the 2 could develop a reliable outside jumper.

[moocow007]

Its funny cause it almost feels like folks are taking the fact that Zion Williamson ended up being the better player at Duke as proof that there must be something wrong with Barrett (who was the consensus no.1 overall player in this class coming into college).

To which, let's take a look at the criticism that Barrett has been laid on Barrett:

Barrett is a Chucker

Again, the notion that Coach K allowed Barrett to take all those shots from deep against his orders is pretty far fetched. Considering that the Blue Devils had 1 guy who could actually shoot (their 8th man) and that you simply cannot NOT take 3's in a game, it's really not hard to fathom that Barrett was viewed by Coach K as his best "other" option to take those deep shots is it? So the notion that Barrett was simply chucking shots of his own volition is a bit far fetched to me. Not at Duke. Not for a coach like Coach K. Why would he allow Barrett to simply chuck against game plans? Because he wanted to placate Barrett so he could stay another year? Everyone and their mom knew Barrett was 1 and done. Because Barrett ran buck wild? By most indications Barrett is a very intelligent, calm guy with a high BBIQ and a great upbringing. Coach K even said one of Barrett's biggest positive traits is his leadership ability. Would such a player disobey coaches orders and the game plan to become a selfish chucker?

Barrett's Game has Holes

Ok so realize this....just about every team and their locker room attendant knew what the Blue Devils weakness on offense was and how to game plan against them. Sure the Blue Devils had Zion Williamson but if you look at the stretch of games where Williamson was out, Barrett was unstoppable. This is WITHOUT Zion and with teams packing the paint and focusing on stopping him. So either Barrett was just plain lucky, the other teams were feeling sorry for Duke and letting up on them OR he really is that good. Barrett not only proved he can score when defenses were packed in and zoned on stopping him but he also showed that he could get others involved by averaging 4.3 apg. How many elite primary scorers average that in college? And then to go with near 7.6 rpg? His advanced stats also indicate that Barrett is a special talent (95.9 defensive rating to go with an 110.1 offensive rating overall, his offensive rating was actually better in conference play).

Perfect? No. Lock for a stud talent? No. But that doesn't mean you don't take him. There's no 100% guarantees.

[NoLayupRule]

Mitch and Zion is a bad fit unless Mitch turns into brook lopez. Zion is a point center.

Zion will not be able to survive as a full time center. Mitch is almost as good of a fit next to Zion as you're going to find. The only thing that would make it better is if one of the 2 could develop a reliable outside jumper.

ALso not our problem

If Zion and Mitch are playing together it’s because ad is in nyc
Therefor who cares if they fit well or not

[NoLayupRule]

Its funny cause it almost feels like folks are taking the fact that Zion Williamson ended up being the better player at Duke as proof that there must be something wrong with Barrett (who was the consensus no.1 overall player in this class coming into college).

To which, let's take a look at the criticism that Barrett has been laid on Barrett:

Barrett is a Chucker

Again, the notion that Coach K allowed Barrett to take all those shots from deep against his orders is pretty far fetched. Considering that the Blue Devils had 1 guy who could actually shoot (their 8th man) and that you simply cannot NOT take 3's in a game, it's really not hard to fathom that Barrett was viewed by Coach K as his best "other" option to take those deep shots is it? So the notion that Barrett was simply chucking shots of his own volition is a bit far fetched to me. Not at Duke. Not for a coach like Coach K. Why would he allow Barrett to simply chuck against game plans? Because he wanted to placate Barrett so he could stay another year? Everyone and their mom knew Barrett was 1 and done. Because Barrett ran buck wild? By most indications Barrett is a very intelligent, calm guy with a high BBIQ and a great upbringing. Coach K even said one of Barrett's biggest positive traits is his leadership ability. Would such a player disobey coaches orders and the game plan to become a selfish chucker?

Barrett's Offensive Game has Holes

Ok so realize this....just about every team and their locker room attendant knew what the Blue Devils weakness on offense was and how to game plan against them. Sure the Blue Devils had Zion Williamson but if you look at the stretch of games where Williamson was out, Barrett was unstoppable. This is WITHOUT Zion and with teams packing the paint and focusing on stopping him. So either Barrett was just plain lucky, the other teams were feeling sorry for Duke and letting up on them OR he really is that good.

I agree on all fronts

It’s also worth noting that RJ has the leadership quality. The alpha quality. He’s not afraid of the spotlight.

With a team of Knox and frank and the like that’s a very important quality. Dsj has it but I’d rather see RJ leading then dsj, that’s for sure

[Knicksfan1992]

Mitch and Zion is a bad fit unless Mitch turns into brook lopez. Zion is a point center.

Zion will not be able to survive as a full time center. Mitch is almost as good of a fit next to Zion as you're going to find. The only thing that would make it better is if one of the 2 could develop a reliable outside jumper.

ALso not our problem

If Zion and Mitch are playing together it’s because ad is in nyc
Therefor who cares if they fit well or not

Yeah was just responding to something that caught my eye because I thought it was totally wrong lol. But Tron is entitled to his opinion as well.