Free agency and trade ideas: Which wings do we go after this summer?

[King4Day]

I usually check out the Suns Reddit for instant news. Usually if there's a tweet about the team, anywhere, it's posted there practically in realtime.
The last few days have been a total train wreck with them having some sort of Booker/Lavine debate.
It's a reason Reddit is like Walmart. You can always get what you need there but you have to deal with endless trash to find it. What a mess.

[carey]

My understanding is the difference between salary and cap was structured into the Nets offer:

"The Gilbert Arenas provision allows Johnson to make $5.6 million and $5.8 million in the first two years of the deal, but salaries of $18.8 million and $19.6 million in 2018-19 and 2019-20 make the offer sheet more prohibitive for the Heat to match."

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--nets-to-sign-tyler-johnson-to--50m-offer-sheet-145854260.html

"Brooklyn is also not bound to the onerous poison-pill structure. Because it is signing Johnson into cap space, it can smooth his $50 million salary over four years to a $12.5 million average. Johnson's cash earnings would still be the same, but his cap number would be more manageable, similar to Lin's 2012 deal with the Houston Rockets."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2649872-tyler-johnson-reportedly-accepts-nets-offer-sheet-contract-details-and-reaction

But since the Heat matched it, they recognized his salaries as cap, and that smoothening effect was cancelled.

"If the Heat match, their cap would reflect the actual amounts paid out, except for this coming season, when the cap hit would be only $1.2 million, the amount of Johnson's qualifying offer. The Miami Herald has reported that ."

https://www.netsdaily.com/2016/7/7/12115556/tyler-johnson-signs-50-million-offer-sheet-giving-heat-three-days-to

So, yes, his salary equals his cap hit.

You are correct. Here's the original terms.

--Under the offer sheet, the Nets would pay Johnson $5.6 million next season, $5.9 in 2017-18; $18.9 million in 2018-19 and $19.6 million in 2019-20 -- but the deal would only count as $12.5 million on the cap, $12.5 million for each of the four years.

--If the Heat match, their cap would reflect the actual amounts paid out, except for this coming season, when the cap hit would be only $1.2 million, the amount of Johnson's qualifying offer. The Miami Herald has reported that . So, it would have been better for Pat Riley if Johnson hadn't signed anything and structured a deal more cap-friendly.

That's pretty much what I just wrote, word for word, but thanks for confirming, I guess?

Anytime, my man!

[MathiasPW]

While it's easy to label a player as a bad defender, it must be understood that this is not permanent, nor can it be said in a vacuum.

Players develop, and defensive systems matter.

Lillard and McCollum were always put on the "bad defender" box, but continuity and a good system allowed them to be good (enough) on defense to have a net (very) positive impact on the court.

Both Booker and Russel have physical tools (size, agility) to be decent defenders, yet lack enough experience, awareness, and clear roles and confidence in teammates to have a positive impact on defense.

It can work

And effort. Which is a problem for both booker and Russell. In theory if they were playing games that matter their effort level would improve and they both could be passable on that end. Plus in theory if they were together sharing the offensive load they both should be able to expend more energy on defense. Booker especially, while he's been a terrible defender and probably will never be that good there is a little unknown because throughout his career he's been asked to shoulder so much of a load on O it's understandable that he takes some plays off on D. (Not that it's a good habit but it is understandable)

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Effort is key, for sure. I always start under the assumption that effort is there, but stamina may lack if you are working too hard on the other side.

That's why a system is so important. To reduce that kind of risk. Harden's improvement on defense can be partially attributed to Chris Paul sharing the burden on offene.

[WeekapaugGroove]

While it's easy to label a player as a bad defender, it must be understood that this is not permanent, nor can it be said in a vacuum.

Players develop, and defensive systems matter.

Lillard and McCollum were always put on the "bad defender" box, but continuity and a good system allowed them to be good (enough) on defense to have a net (very) positive impact on the court.

Both Booker and Russel have physical tools (size, agility) to be decent defenders, yet lack enough experience, awareness, and clear roles and confidence in teammates to have a positive impact on defense.

It can work

And effort. Which is a problem for both booker and Russell. In theory if they were playing games that matter their effort level would improve and they both could be passable on that end. Plus in theory if they were together sharing the offensive load they both should be able to expend more energy on defense. Booker especially, while he's been a terrible defender and probably will never be that good there is a little unknown because throughout his career he's been asked to shoulder so much of a load on O it's understandable that he takes some plays off on D. (Not that it's a good habit but it is understandable)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Effort is key, for sure. I always start under the assumption that effort is there, but stamina may lack if you are working too hard on the other side.

That's why a system is so important. To reduce that kind of risk. Harden's improvement on defense can be partially attributed to Chris Paul sharing the burden on offene.

Some players go balls out effort all the time but I'd say the majority run hot and cold. Not that it's right but I think it's human nature to let up a bit defensively when you are getting your ass kicked as often as the suns have the past few years.

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[bigfoot]

I'm not suggesting we stretch Tyler, I am suggesting we offer one of our exceptions for a starting point guard we can get under contract for multiple seasons and bring Tyler off the bench. I think this will keep him playing more games (only 44 games last season), and spend our cap space on a starting PF.

Also, I don't want JR anywhere affiliated with the Suns, even if it is to buy him out.

You keep making the same mistake. You need to treat exceptions like cap holds. You can not use them if you are operating under the cap (like the Suns are) & intend to use your cap space. You must first waive the exceptions. The concept of the exception is for teams to still be able to sign guys when they are over the cap. So we don't have access to the MLE but we have slightly more than the MLE in cap space. Also, you can't combine exceptions to sign guys or trade for guys if talking about a TPE. (Not that you were suggesting that. Just a heads up for future ideas.)

I am making NO mistake except for maybe the amount available in the exception, I said before that post to use our cap space for a PF, I also suggested to sign Oubre and Holmes. This will put us over the cap, so we can use one of our exceptions. Please ask next time before claiming that I "keep" making a mistake I did not make. We still have the Room MLE if we use our cap space. It would be better to trade for a position, keep our holds, and then all our exceptions would be available except the Room MLE.

I thought i would add to this discussion

1) The Suns are not under the cap, they are over the cap. Per the CBA FAQ, "If a team is below the cap, then its Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level (either the Taxpayer or Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level, whichever applies to the team) and/or trade exceptions are added to their team salary". In the Suns case, initially we were about $3M under the cap so you must add in the exceptions to salary. With the Non-Taxpayer mid-Level and BiAnnual exceptions included the team has $120M of salary. The cap is estimated to be $109M so we are $11M over the cap.

2) If we want to get under the cap we need to renounce cap holds and exceptions. For example, if we just renounced bird rights to our free agents (except Oubre) we would still be $3M over the cap. Renouncing the exceptions, too, we end up with about $10M in cap space but then the exceptions are not available to use this year. Basically to get $10M in cap space we need to give up our $9.2M mid-level exception and our $3.5M biannual exception. Also, when renouncing our cap holds we lose the bird rights to players (Bender, Daniels, etc).

3) The best option would be to find a trade partner to get either a starting caliber PG or PF. Then we still have our two exceptions to bring in other vets. We also have the bird rights to Bender and Daniels so we can offer them better contracts than other teams.

[BobbieL]

You keep making the same mistake. You need to treat exceptions like cap holds. You can not use them if you are operating under the cap (like the Suns are) & intend to use your cap space. You must first waive the exceptions. The concept of the exception is for teams to still be able to sign guys when they are over the cap. So we don't have access to the MLE but we have slightly more than the MLE in cap space. Also, you can't combine exceptions to sign guys or trade for guys if talking about a TPE. (Not that you were suggesting that. Just a heads up for future ideas.)

I am making NO mistake except for maybe the amount available in the exception, I said before that post to use our cap space for a PF, I also suggested to sign Oubre and Holmes. This will put us over the cap, so we can use one of our exceptions. Please ask next time before claiming that I "keep" making a mistake I did not make. We still have the Room MLE if we use our cap space. It would be better to trade for a position, keep our holds, and then all our exceptions would be available except the Room MLE.

I thought i would add to this discussion

1) The Suns are not under the cap, they are over the cap. Per the CBA FAQ, "If a team is below the cap, then its Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level (either the Taxpayer or Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level, whichever applies to the team) and/or trade exceptions are added to their team salary". In the Suns case, initially we were about $3M under the cap so you must add in the exceptions to salary. With the Non-Taxpayer mid-Level and BiAnnual exceptions included the team has $120M of salary. The cap is estimated to be $109M so we are $11M over the cap.

2) If we want to get under the cap we need to renounce cap holds and exceptions. For example, if we just renounced bird rights to our free agents (except Oubre) we would still be $3M over the cap. Renouncing the exceptions, too, we end up with about $10M in cap space but then the exceptions are not available to use this year. Basically to get $10M in cap space we need to give up our $9.2M mid-level exception and our $3.5M biannual exception. Also, when renouncing our cap holds we lose the bird rights to players (Bender, Daniels, etc).

3) The best option would be to find a trade partner to get either a starting caliber PG or PF. Then we still have our two exceptions to bring in other vets. We also have the bird rights to Bender and Daniels so we can offer them better contracts than other teams.

Thanks for information. Josh and 6 for ???????

[bigfoot]

I am making NO mistake except for maybe the amount available in the exception, I said before that post to use our cap space for a PF, I also suggested to sign Oubre and Holmes. This will put us over the cap, so we can use one of our exceptions. Please ask next time before claiming that I "keep" making a mistake I did not make. We still have the Room MLE if we use our cap space. It would be better to trade for a position, keep our holds, and then all our exceptions would be available except the Room MLE.

I thought i would add to this discussion

1) The Suns are not under the cap, they are over the cap. Per the CBA FAQ, "If a team is below the cap, then its Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level (either the Taxpayer or Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level, whichever applies to the team) and/or trade exceptions are added to their team salary". In the Suns case, initially we were about $3M under the cap so you must add in the exceptions to salary. With the Non-Taxpayer mid-Level and BiAnnual exceptions included the team has $120M of salary. The cap is estimated to be $109M so we are $11M over the cap.

2) If we want to get under the cap we need to renounce cap holds and exceptions. For example, if we just renounced bird rights to our free agents (except Oubre) we would still be $3M over the cap. Renouncing the exceptions, too, we end up with about $10M in cap space but then the exceptions are not available to use this year. Basically to get $10M in cap space we need to give up our $9.2M mid-level exception and our $3.5M biannual exception. Also, when renouncing our cap holds we lose the bird rights to players (Bender, Daniels, etc).

3) The best option would be to find a trade partner to get either a starting caliber PG or PF. Then we still have our two exceptions to bring in other vets. We also have the bird rights to Bender and Daniels so we can offer them better contracts than other teams.

Thanks for information. Josh and 6 for ???????

There is actually quite a bit of flexibility to get different types of players. For example, let's say we wanted to get Chris Paul, I don't, but for example purposes here is how it could work.

Suns out - Jackson, Johnson, and number 6 pick. Suns in - Chris Paul. Now this has to happen after Johnson opts into his contract and we draft a player with the number 6 pick. We can't just trade the pick. So Paul's salary is $38M and the combined salary of our three players is $31M. That is within the 125% threshold of ingoing/outgoing salary.

A better trade option would be to package Jackson ($7M), draft pick ($5.5M), Fredette ($2M) and Spalding ($1.5M) for a single PG or PF. That is $16M in outgoing salary so we could work a trade for a player making up to $20M. More cherries on the top for the trade partner are that Fredette and Spalding can be waived and we could include future assets as well to get a good player.

So now the question is can you find a decent player that might be available that is making nearly $20M???

[BobbieL]

I thought i would add to this discussion

1) The Suns are not under the cap, they are over the cap. Per the CBA FAQ, "If a team is below the cap, then its Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level (either the Taxpayer or Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level, whichever applies to the team) and/or trade exceptions are added to their team salary". In the Suns case, initially we were about $3M under the cap so you must add in the exceptions to salary. With the Non-Taxpayer mid-Level and BiAnnual exceptions included the team has $120M of salary. The cap is estimated to be $109M so we are $11M over the cap.

2) If we want to get under the cap we need to renounce cap holds and exceptions. For example, if we just renounced bird rights to our free agents (except Oubre) we would still be $3M over the cap. Renouncing the exceptions, too, we end up with about $10M in cap space but then the exceptions are not available to use this year. Basically to get $10M in cap space we need to give up our $9.2M mid-level exception and our $3.5M biannual exception. Also, when renouncing our cap holds we lose the bird rights to players (Bender, Daniels, etc).

3) The best option would be to find a trade partner to get either a starting caliber PG or PF. Then we still have our two exceptions to bring in other vets. We also have the bird rights to Bender and Daniels so we can offer them better contracts than other teams.

Thanks for information. Josh and 6 for ???????

There is actually quite a bit of flexibility to get different types of players. For example, let's say we wanted to get Chris Paul, I don't, but for example purposes here is how it could work.

Suns out - Jackson, Johnson, and number 6 pick. Suns in - Chris Paul. Now this has to happen after Johnson opts into his contract and we draft a player with the number 6 pick. We can't just trade the pick. So Paul's salary is $38M and the combined salary of our three players is $31M. That is within the 125% threshold of ingoing/outgoing salary.

A better trade option would be to package Jackson ($7M), draft pick ($5.5M), Fredette ($2M) and Spalding ($1.5M) for a single PG or PF. That is $16M in outgoing salary so we could work a trade for a player making up to $20M. More cherries on the top for the trade partner are that Fredette and Spalding can be waived and we could include future assets as well to get a good player.

So now the question is can you find a decent player that might be available that is making nearly $20M???

James was quite shrewd it seems signing Spalding and Jimmer to the deals he did because it is 4m of cap space that is not guaranteed for the team trading for them. But it helps make the math work. Like when Morey had to trade for guys to make the CP3 trade so the Blazers had a tweet of the press conference with a bag of cash.


Aaron Gordon I think makes 20m on his contract and its declining. Throw in TJ instead of Josh and the Bucks pick on that deal to get A-A-ron Gordon

I suggested a CP3 trade where the Suns are involved but it was CP 3 to the Lakers, Ball and Gordon to the Suns with the Rockets getting Tyler, Josh and the 6th pick. I think money wise thats close for the Suns. If the Lakers are under the cap - they can just take Paul.

[RunDogGun]

I thought i would add to this discussion

1) The Suns are not under the cap, they are over the cap. Per the CBA FAQ, "If a team is below the cap, then its Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level (either the Taxpayer or Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level, whichever applies to the team) and/or trade exceptions are added to their team salary". In the Suns case, initially we were about $3M under the cap so you must add in the exceptions to salary. With the Non-Taxpayer mid-Level and BiAnnual exceptions included the team has $120M of salary. The cap is estimated to be $109M so we are $11M over the cap.

2) If we want to get under the cap we need to renounce cap holds and exceptions. For example, if we just renounced bird rights to our free agents (except Oubre) we would still be $3M over the cap. Renouncing the exceptions, too, we end up with about $10M in cap space but then the exceptions are not available to use this year. Basically to get $10M in cap space we need to give up our $9.2M mid-level exception and our $3.5M biannual exception. Also, when renouncing our cap holds we lose the bird rights to players (Bender, Daniels, etc).

3) The best option would be to find a trade partner to get either a starting caliber PG or PF. Then we still have our two exceptions to bring in other vets. We also have the bird rights to Bender and Daniels so we can offer them better contracts than other teams.

In addition to that, we don't currently have the Room MLE since we aren't under the cap and used up that cap space. So we can't renounce it, since we don't have it. If we were to trade players and get under the cap, and use that new cap space to get a player, we then can use the Room MLE to sign a player. It isn't as high of an amount as the Standard MLE, nor as long of a contract.

But yes, the best bet would be to trade for a player, stay over the cap, and then have the Standard MLE to spend on another player.

[bwgood77]

Here's that Kyrie/KD to Brooklyn talk and then the mention of D'Angelo and the Suns at the end...

Read on Twitter

Man Bucher sure sounded confident on that one.

What does everyone think about a DLo/Booker back court? Could be fun but the defense might be pretty bad...

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A DLo/Booker back court could have a lot of upside if they can improve quite a bit from here. DLo should not be getting a max.

The positives are that he can shoot above league average from 3 at almost 37%. Not great but we only have one rotation player above that and there is a good chance he's gone. So if we can move up out of last, and maybe top 20-25 in 3pt shooting, it's a start, though that might be hard if we lose TJ unless multiple players improve a great deal shooting from last year. I expect Booker and Bridges should improve some.

Turnovers will be an issue. D Lo and especially Book turn the ball over A LOT. Over 7 turnovers a game between them.

Defense will be an issue but D Lo is improved there from before. Still not good, but better than perhaps some of the other options.

Perhaps the worst part is D Lo's overall efficiency....it's well below league average at like 53% (TS%) primarily because he cannot get to the rim or line for whatever reason.

If we end up giving him the max, then this is our team, long term, pretty much, and I am not sure how far they go unless all of DLo, Book and Ayton continue to improve a great deal.

But he's still a more exciting option and maybe our best bet if he's available at taking a step, and given his age, he can still improve a lot.

[bigfoot]

Here's that Kyrie/KD to Brooklyn talk and then the mention of D'Angelo and the Suns at the end...

Read on Twitter

Man Bucher sure sounded confident on that one.

What does everyone think about a DLo/Booker back court? Could be fun but the defense might be pretty bad...

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

A DLo/Booker back court could have a lot of upside if they can improve quite a bit from here. DLo should not be getting a max.

The positives are that he can shoot above league average from 3 at almost 37%. Not great but we only have one rotation player above that and there is a good chance he's gone. So if we can move up out of last, and maybe top 20-25 in 3pt shooting, it's a start, though that might be hard if we lose TJ unless multiple players improve a great deal shooting from last year. I expect Booker and Bridges should improve some.

Turnovers will be an issue. D Lo and especially Book turn the ball over A LOT. Over 7 turnovers a game between them.

Defense will be an issue but D Lo is improved there from before. Still not good, but better than perhaps some of the other options.

Perhaps the worst part is D Lo's overall efficiency....it's well below league average at like 53% (TS%) primarily because he cannot get to the rim or line for whatever reason.

If we end up giving him the max, then this is our team, long term, pretty much, and I am not sure how far they go unless all of DLo, Book and Ayton continue to improve a great deal.

But he's still a more exciting option and maybe our best bet if he's available at taking a step, and given his age, he can still improve a lot.

Yet we forget we would be adding another stupid player to the team. How quickly everyone forgets the Arizona Tea debacle. Stupid off the floor equals stupid on the floor.

[bigfoot]

Bring back PJ?

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2019/05/30/107962/

[bwgood77]

Man Bucher sure sounded confident on that one.

What does everyone think about a DLo/Booker back court? Could be fun but the defense might be pretty bad...

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

A DLo/Booker back court could have a lot of upside if they can improve quite a bit from here. DLo should not be getting a max.

The positives are that he can shoot above league average from 3 at almost 37%. Not great but we only have one rotation player above that and there is a good chance he's gone. So if we can move up out of last, and maybe top 20-25 in 3pt shooting, it's a start, though that might be hard if we lose TJ unless multiple players improve a great deal shooting from last year. I expect Booker and Bridges should improve some.

Turnovers will be an issue. D Lo and especially Book turn the ball over A LOT. Over 7 turnovers a game between them.

Defense will be an issue but D Lo is improved there from before. Still not good, but better than perhaps some of the other options.

Perhaps the worst part is D Lo's overall efficiency....it's well below league average at like 53% (TS%) primarily because he cannot get to the rim or line for whatever reason.

If we end up giving him the max, then this is our team, long term, pretty much, and I am not sure how far they go unless all of DLo, Book and Ayton continue to improve a great deal.

But he's still a more exciting option and maybe our best bet if he's available at taking a step, and given his age, he can still improve a lot.

Yet we forget we would be adding another stupid player to the team. How quickly everyone forgets the Arizona Tea debacle. Stupid off the floor equals stupid on the floor.

I would prefer most of the other bigger name guys we've talked about..Brogdon, Holiday, Kemba, ignoring salaries. Conley would also be a better fit for right now, but long term he doesn't make sense and likely doesn't want to come here and those other guys are almost certainly not available to us, so beggers can't be very picky choosers.

My gut tells me this team would probably never get terribly far, but it would still better than anything we've seen in a while.

[Wilber85]

I am not a fan of Russell and Booker back court.

What is that 50 + shots.

[TeamTragic]

I would love Russell on this team. Get Booker some **** help.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[Saberestar]

Gambo said a few interesting things today after "working the phones during the last 24 hours"

He has talked with some players, coachs and GMs around the league.

1. Julius Randle has commented that he is interested in playing for the Suns.

2. Lakers lean to draft Reddish with the #4 pick. That can change obviously if they trade the pick.

3. The Pacers are considering to offer a big time contract to Russell.
That would open the door (more) to the Suns to sign any of Joseph or Collison.

[TeamTragic]

Gambo said a few interesting things today after "working the phones during the last 24 hours"

He has talked with some players, coachs and GMs around the league.

1. Julius Randle has commented that he is interested in playing for the Suns.

2. Lakers lean to draft Reddish with the #4 pick. That can change obviously if they trade the pick.

3. The Pacers are considering to offer a big time contract to Russell.
That would open the door (more) to the Suns to sign any of Joseph or Collison.

I would trade for Randle. Doubt that the Pacers go after Russell.

[bwgood77]

Indiana would actually be a nice fit for D Lo. Better fit with Dipo than Booker.

[Saberestar]

Indiana would actually be a nice fit for D Lo. Better fit with Dipo than Booker.

Yeah, and money wouldn't be a problem.

They can lose Collison, Joseph and Tyreke and replace them with D Lo. Quality over quantity.