Pascal Siakam Megathread - All Siakam-centric topics will be merged into this one

[dhsilv2]

But in all seriousness, in a 2016 redraft would Pascal be picked ahead of Ben Simmons? I think he's making a damn good case.

Doubtful as of now and given he's 25 and Simmons is about to be 23, I think the youth factor likely is still giving Simmons the nod. That said nobody would think you were crazy to switch them.

How much is youth a factor here though? Siakim has shown that he can improve in strides while Simmons, who has seemingly been playing organized ball for almost his entire life, still cant shoot beyond 5 feet.

Players peak physically around 26. Doesn't matter how much better you get in terms of skills after a point on the age curve, even if you started playing later in life.

[Grape]

But in all seriousness, in a 2016 redraft would Pascal be picked ahead of Ben Simmons? I think he's making a damn good case.

I'm taking Siakam before Simmons 100 times out of 100.

Siakam is a darkhorse potential future MVP (long shot but it's a possibility). He'll make at least a couple of All-NBA teams.

Simmons is younger but the lack of a jumpshot will always put a ceiling on his career. I don't see him fixing that thing.

I love Pascal as well but if you think Pascal is a potential future MVP then Simmons is absolutely one as well.

[mademan]

Doubtful as of now and given he's 25 and Simmons is about to be 23, I think the youth factor likely is still giving Simmons the nod. That said nobody would think you were crazy to switch them.

How much is youth a factor here though? Siakim has shown that he can improve in strides while Simmons, who has seemingly been playing organized ball for almost his entire life, still cant shoot beyond 5 feet.

Players peak physically around 26. Doesn't matter how much better you get in terms of skills after a point on the age curve, even if you started playing later in life.

But Simmons is very refined in all the other aspects of his game. He's an A defender, a great passer/playmaker/ballhandler, and does a lot of gritty little things that dont really show up on stat sheets. I cant get over how a guy plays basketball his whole life though, and seemingly cant shoot outside the paint. Even young Rondo was a better shooter, lol.

[nabbs]

Dominant. Him and Kawhi are a lethal two-way punch.

Highly rate him.

Has Ujiri won executive of the year yet?

I've been a big Siakam believer this year, he's able to get in there and ball against guys like Giannis and Embiid. He's athletic, long, great shooting touch, unselfish. Kawhi would be a dummy to leave this guy, he's the #2 every superstar is looking for.

Say it louder for my Ballmer hive friends telling me Shamet and SGA are the "stars" Kawhi can win in the west with

[nabbs]

not right now, i think next season if simmons jumper doesn't improve and siakam keeps developing this will change tho.

I don't know why people are getting mega high on Siakham now - yes, he gave Draymond Green the business but for most of the playoffs he has been pretty bad. People criticize Simmons for not being that good in the post season, then Pascal should (and did) get the same criticisms, only difference is Pascal's team is in the finals and Simmons is not (and if I can recall, Lowry was a bigger deal in beating Milwaukee than Pascal was). It's only the past few games Siakham has stepped it up.

Pascal was awesome during the regular season, but he is hardly this juggernaut in the post season - he has his limits just as Simmons does.

To be fair, for the first 3 rounds he had Isaac, Embiid and Giannis guarding him. They ain't slouches on the defensive end and each have insane length.

The fact that a player in his third year in the league, in his first long playoff run was game planned for... To the point where coaches made the conscious decision to put Giannis, Embiid and Isaac on him should tell you everything you need to know about how much he is respected as a threat. Couple that with the fact he has only been playing organized basketball for 7 years and it is not hard at all to imagine even more improvement for him

[dhsilv2]

How much is youth a factor here though? Siakim has shown that he can improve in strides while Simmons, who has seemingly been playing organized ball for almost his entire life, still cant shoot beyond 5 feet.

Players peak physically around 26. Doesn't matter how much better you get in terms of skills after a point on the age curve, even if you started playing later in life.

But Simmons is very refined in all the other aspects of his game. He's an A defender, a great passer/playmaker/ballhandler, and does a lot of gritty little things that dont really show up on stat sheets. I cant get over how a guy plays basketball his whole life though, and seemingly cant shoot outside the paint. Even young Rondo was a better shooter, lol.

Ever notice great looking people can get away without having much of a personality?

I doubt he's ever actually needed to shoot well.

[Waylanderz]

But in all seriousness, in a 2016 redraft would Pascal be picked ahead of Ben Simmons? I think he's making a damn good case.

We already have too many Siakam threads on the GB right now. I'm merging this into the megathread.

Mega Lord Pascal "Spicy P" Siakam

Someone needs to put that on a sign for the next Jurassic Park showing.

[daswunderboy]

Players peak physically around 26. Doesn't matter how much better you get in terms of skills after a point on the age curve, even if you started playing later in life.

But Simmons is very refined in all the other aspects of his game. He's an A defender, a great passer/playmaker/ballhandler, and does a lot of gritty little things that dont really show up on stat sheets. I cant get over how a guy plays basketball his whole life though, and seemingly cant shoot outside the paint. Even young Rondo was a better shooter, lol.

Ever notice great looking people can get away without having much of a personality?

I doubt he's ever actually needed to shoot well.

That is likely true. He's been able to rely on his athleticism and size to get anywhere he wanted on the court, but in the NBA, everyone else is big and fast, and you actually need some other skills on occasion to keep defenses honest. That's why youth coaching is important. Euro big men for a long time were much better shooters than American bigs for this reason. Even though they could score in the post, coaching forced them to learn how to shoot, whereas a guy like Shaq never had to.

Now the question will be how much Simmons wants to improve his shot. If he becomes even an average jump shooter, look out.

[swyftdahoe]

But in all seriousness, in a 2016 redraft would Pascal be picked ahead of Ben Simmons? I think he's making a damn good case.

Doubtful as of now and given he's 25 and Simmons is about to be 23, I think the youth factor likely is still giving Simmons the nod. That said nobody would think you were crazy to switch them.

How much is youth a factor here though? Siakim has shown that he can improve in strides while Simmons, who has seemingly been playing organized ball for almost his entire life, still cant shoot beyond 5 feet.

It’s not even Simmons’ inability to hit a jumper that bothers me. It’s in his lack of guts to take jumpers period. The kid is a perfectionist and that’s why he’s become the talent that he is. But at this level, and all things considered, I’m taking the player with guts (Spicy P) to do things outside his comfort zone. You don’t need to guard Simmons from the outside anymore because he’s guarding himself mentally. You miss every shot you don’t take! Simmons is the anti-chucker and just as detrimental to a half court offender. That said, he just needs to get some good mental coaching and fix whatever fear-of-failure he’s got with shooting. But damn, that’s so simple but maybe also impossible.

[dhsilv2]

Doubtful as of now and given he's 25 and Simmons is about to be 23, I think the youth factor likely is still giving Simmons the nod. That said nobody would think you were crazy to switch them.

How much is youth a factor here though? Siakim has shown that he can improve in strides while Simmons, who has seemingly been playing organized ball for almost his entire life, still cant shoot beyond 5 feet.

It’s not even Simmons’ inability to hit a jumper that bothers me. It’s in his lack of guts to take jumpers period. The kid is a perfectionist and that’s why he’s become the talent that he is. But at this level, and all things considered, I’m taking the player with guts (Spicy P) to do things outside his comfort zone. You don’t need to guard Simmons from the outside anymore because he’s guarding himself mentally. You miss every shot you don’t take! Simmons is the anti-chucker and just as detrimental to a half court offender. That said, he just needs to get some good mental coaching and fix whatever fear-of-failure he’s got with shooting. But damn, that’s so simple but maybe also impossible.

I remain impressed that he's disciplined enough to not shoot when he can't shoot. I feel like most guys with his talent just shoot their teams out of games. Unless I see someone with the team saying there's actual fear and it isn't just self awareness, I'm going to learn towards this being a good thing and something we knew he's trying to work on.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

He's putting up 30+ in the finals, it's not a fluke either. There is no bigger stage.

[Raps in 4]

How much is youth a factor here though? Siakim has shown that he can improve in strides while Simmons, who has seemingly been playing organized ball for almost his entire life, still cant shoot beyond 5 feet.

Players peak physically around 26. Doesn't matter how much better you get in terms of skills after a point on the age curve, even if you started playing later in life.

But Simmons is very refined in all the other aspects of his game. He's an A defender, a great passer/playmaker/ballhandler, and does a lot of gritty little things that dont really show up on stat sheets. I cant get over how a guy plays basketball his whole life though, and seemingly cant shoot outside the paint. Even young Rondo was a better shooter, lol.

Siakam is arguably a better defender than Simmons. He's also a solid ball handler and playmaker.

[lordjeff05]

A couple of observations from a neutral observer;

Spicy P is a dumb nickname, and also kinda gross

I thought he looked a little cared at first, boy was I wrong.

He routinely used his athleticism to overmatch good positional defense. This performance was kind of fluky, but if he can do anything like that again it could break Golden State’s defense because it would require them to load up on multiple people, which is heart impossible given the rest of the personnel. Toronto has two guys that can beat you on switches (Gasol and Lowry) and one guy that is difficult to guard one on one (Kawhi). Another player that requires help to guard would short wire their defensive schemes, especially if FVV and Danny can hit open looks.

I’m all for excitement about a young guy, and who knows how high is ceiling is, but Simmons has been a better player and if he had a system around him that catered to his strengths, he’d be much better. Pascal could become Giannis or Ibaka, who also made a huge leap after a few years in the league and limited amateur ball, but who also leveled off after the initial growth in his game.

This series is fun, but one game does not a narrative make.

[lobosloboslobos]

Doubtful as of now and given he's 25 and Simmons is about to be 23, I think the youth factor likely is still giving Simmons the nod. That said nobody would think you were crazy to switch them.

How much is youth a factor here though? Siakim has shown that he can improve in strides while Simmons, who has seemingly been playing organized ball for almost his entire life, still cant shoot beyond 5 feet.

Players peak physically around 26. Doesn't matter how much better you get in terms of skills after a point on the age curve, even if you started playing later in life.

i've seen you argue this at length before and i still don't understand what your point is. You're saying that players peak athletically at 26 (a questionable claim but let's say you're right) and so...what exactly?

As a result of this hypothetical peak you claim that it "Doesn't matter how much better you get in terms of skills after a point on the age curve". Which means according to you that your positive impact cannot increase after 26? Or you can't improve after 26? Or your improvement at a skill will always be less than your physical decline after 26? surely you don't believe any of those ridiculous statements. So what are you saying?

And moreover, what does that point supposedly indicate about the value of Siakim and Simmons going forward?

[Dennis 37]

This megathread was almost not a thing because Kyle bought Cartman, Ants in the Pants for his birthday.

[VanWest82]

Never in a million years would I have believed that Siakam would punk Draymond Green so badly right in the middle of his prime in a game one of the Finals. I'm sure Green's embarrassed. I actually thought he handled it well post game. Ryen Russillo, on his podcast, said Draymond looked shook at various points in the game. I agree with him. Siakam hit some ridiculous shots but he also made a bunch that he's made all year, and it's those shots (to say nothing of his excellent game defensively) that make you reconsider just how good he can be.

[Dennis 37]

A couple of observations from a neutral observer;

Spicy P is a dumb nickname, and also kinda gross

I thought he looked a little cared at first, boy was I wrong.

He routinely used his athleticism to overmatch good positional defense. This performance was kind of fluky, but if he can do anything like that again it could break Golden State’s defense because it would require them to load up on multiple people, which is heart impossible given the rest of the personnel. Toronto has two guys that can beat you on switches (Gasol and Lowry) and one guy that is difficult to guard one on one (Kawhi). Another player that requires help to guard would short wire their defensive schemes, especially if FVV and Danny can hit open looks.

I’m all for excitement about a young guy, and who knows how high is ceiling is, but Simmons has been a better player and if he had a system around him that catered to his strengths, he’d be much better. Pascal could become Giannis or Ibaka, who also made a huge leap after a few years in the league and limited amateur ball, but who also leveled off after the initial growth in his game.

This series is fun, but one game does not a narrative make.

But Siakam grew while not having a system built for him. The system was built for Kawhi, not Siakam. I'm not claiming Simmons is not as good as Siakam, or could not be better. I'm saying that a player should not need a system built for his strengths, to show his strengths.

Simmons was absolutely shy in some of the Philly/Toronto games. He had to be embarrassed into action by sports commentators.

[socal74]

not right now, i think next season if simmons jumper doesn't improve and siakam keeps developing this will change tho.

I don't know why people are getting mega high on Siakham now - yes, he gave Draymond Green the business but for most of the playoffs he has been pretty bad. People criticize Simmons for not being that good in the post season, then Pascal should (and did) get the same criticisms, only difference is Pascal's team is in the finals and Simmons is not (and if I can recall, Lowry was a bigger deal in beating Milwaukee than Pascal was). It's only the past few games Siakham has stepped it up.

Pascal was awesome during the regular season, but he is hardly this juggernaut in the post season - he has his limits just as Simmons does.

To be fair, for the first 3 rounds he had Isaac, Embiid and Giannis guarding him. They ain't slouches on the defensive end and each have insane length.

Don't get it twisted. Siakam was struggling because he had to guard Giannis. Not the other way around. Pascal only started playing better when Kawhi took Giannis from game 3 and on. Giannis is usually on the weakest offensive threat on the floor so he can roam around. He was not put ton siakam because of what you guys think the reason is

[Raps in 4]

no...ben is arguably better than him and is significantly younger - and yes, I am aware Pascal has not played basketball for a very long time, age still matters.

not right now, i think next season if simmons jumper doesn't improve and siakam keeps developing this will change tho.

I don't know why people are getting mega high on Siakham now - yes, he gave Draymond Green the business but for most of the playoffs he has been pretty bad. People criticize Simmons for not being that good in the post season, then Pascal should (and did) get the same criticisms, only difference is Pascal's team is in the finals and Simmons is not (and if I can recall, Lowry was a bigger deal in beating Milwaukee than Pascal was). It's only the past few games Siakham has stepped it up.

Pascal was awesome during the regular season, but he is hardly this juggernaut in the post season - he has his limits just as Simmons does.

He had a fantastic first round. Was great in the first half of round 2 before he got injured/Philly put Embiid on him.

Then he was shut down by Giannis and the Bucks D in round 3.

To say he was crap most of the playoffs shows you didn't watch most of the playoffs. But we already knew that.

[Def Leppard]

And! I heard he only started playing ball 15 days ago

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