2019 Offseason Speculation Thread - Something gonna happen but will you like it?

[Capn'O]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand GO!!!

[god shammgod]

this title.....i'll allow it

[VCBC]

AD, KI & KD

No maybes bebe

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

ty Capn'O

[SelbyCobra]

We're so close now...

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

My impression is that we are grinding our gears a little here.

There is a strong scenario for signing KD+KI as FAs. And we've thought about that quite a lot. Most of the discussion comes down to whether the Knicks should bid for AD. And that's all very valid discussion. We should definitely keep that discussion in an easily accessible part of our minds.

We've talked a little about whether or not Kawhi could fit with KD, whether he would want to come and so on. I'm not 100% convinced that's really a fruitful discussion .. but I will say that: if Kawhi leads the Raptors to the championship then he has to be taken seriously as the putative Batman to KD's Robin (risible though those characterisations are) and that he would, presumably, be able to choose his team. I'm not sure how the FO would deal with that, but it is a possibility - albeit maybe remote.

We've also talked about which other (max-able) FAs would be good for NYK on the assumption that KD comes but KI doesn't (and taking Kawhi out of the game). My impression is that, whilst, of course, there are mixed views, many people would be happy with Klay or Jimmy, but that after that it gets pretty murky. An interesting question for max-FAs, but also for any recruits, is: if you can't have a top 10 player then does position matter? Putting this in absurd way, and temporally suspending their actual worth & value as players, is there a preference between Kemba, Vuc and Tobias in terms of fit with KD? Given that those would be the first two components of a team.

Obviously, if KD comes then he's the starting point (my Kawhi caveat aside) - all of the players the Knicks currently have under contract or with options are just pieces for use or trade to make the team.

To the point of the post. There is an argument that AD is a top x player in the league (take your choice of x - 5 for me, could be 10 for you, w/e). What if the Knicks were to try to sign AD into cap space plus a little salary back that NOP actually want?

First thing to confess: it isn't at all clear to me that the NOP will trade AD before training camp. If they don't do that then decision processes bifurcate depending on whether AD enjoys playing with Zion or still wants to get out. But, hypothetically, let's set all of that aside.

One of the things we do know the NOP want is cap relief. Lord knows what they think they can do with that, but it was one of the things we do know they wanted from the Lakers. So, maybe a possible trade is AD for only the Knicks contracted players that they actually desire and as many first round picks as in which the negotiation would result.

So this could effectively be an AD for #3 + Mitch and/or DSJ + future picks. (I don't think the NOP want 1 year of Dot, even at $1.6m, etc, etc, and I don't think they want Kevin or Frank.) They could choose what they wanted to take - saving on salary cap, in contrast to a putative trade for AD once 65% of the NYK salary cap was tied up in max-FAs and 80% of ADs salary had to be matched.

I think (outsiders excluded) the NYK have a better package for AD than any other team in the market (Lakers presumed excluded, Boston assumed out), and the trade into space package would benefit both teams.

So what would that leave the Knicks with in terms of space? That depends on the details of the deal, and we can certainly burrow down into the numbers if desired. Squinting at it late at night the minimum is $13.5m and the max is about $20m .. but that's very rough.

Why would the Knicks do this? First of all, maybe they can ship DSJ to NOP and have KD+AD and space for a $20m FA. Would that tempt Vuc? Would KD+AD+Vuc be a decent core? Secondly, they still have almost all of the trade tokens and can do lots of packaging young prospects whose salaries sum to less than $6.533m for 175% trades for vets. If they have to ship all of those contracts at 125% for AD that is losing a huge amount of value. Bonus: when KD's contract ends Ad will be 29 and good to go for another 4 years.

tl;dr. Suppose KD is coming and (hence) the Knicks are going into win it now mode. Would the Knicks be better off/well off using the remaining cap space to sign AD, and build a team around KD+AD?

[iLLmatic860]

My whole life especially the last decade I have had nothing but doubts with this team when it came to stuff like free agency or draft

I say that to only say ive never been more confident as a Knicks fan as I have been as I am this year

This **** different.

[DaGawd]

I'm neither confident nor defeated.. whatever happens happens is my stance. Cool with being legit title contender overnight or continuing with a steady rebuild. We can't lose... Unless we max out Tobias Harris and Boogie

[KnicksGadfly]

As long as the process is good, I'm happy with it. Same reason I'm not mad we got 3rd. If we get KD or not, I think I can't be mad at the thinking behind it all.

[Richard4444]

My impression is that we are grinding our gears a little here.

There is a strong scenario for signing KD+KI as FAs. And we've thought about that quite a lot. Most of the discussion comes down to whether the Knicks should bid for AD. And that's all very valid discussion. We should definitely keep that discussion in an easily accessible part of out minds.

We've talked a little about whether or not Kawhi could fit with KD, whether he would want to come and so on. I'm not 100% convinced that's really a fruitful discussion .. but I will say that: if Kawhi leads the Raptors to the championship then he has to be taken seriously as the putative Batman to KD's Robin (risible though those characterisations are) and that he would, presumably, be able to choose his team. I'm not sure how the FO would deal with that, but it is a possibility - albeit maybe remote.

We've also talked about which other (max-able) FAs would be good for NYK on the assumption that KD comes but KI doesn't (and taking Kawhi out of the game). My impression is that, whilst, of course, there are mixed views, many people would be happy with Klay or Jimmy, but that after that it gets pretty murky. An interesting question for max-FAs, but also for any recruits, is: if you can't have a top 10 player then does position matter? Putting this in absurd way, and temporally suspending their actual worth & value as players, is there a preference between Kemba, Vuc and Tobias in terms of fit with KD? Given that those would be the first two components of a team.

Obviously, if KD comes then he's the starting point (my Kawhi caveat aside) - all of the players the Knicks currently have under contract or with options are just pieces for use or trade to make the team.

To the point of the post. There is an argument that AD is a top x player in the league (take your choice of x - 5 for me, could be 10 for you, w/e). What if the Knicks were to try to sign AD into cap space plus a little salary back that NOP actually want?

First thing to confess: it isn't at all clear to me that the NOP will trade AD before training camp. If they don't do that then decision processes bifurcate depending on whether AD enjoys playing with Zion or still wants to get out. But, hypothetically, let's set all of that aside.

One of the things we do know the NOP want is cap relief. Lord knows what they think they can do with that, but it was one of the things we do know they wanted from the Lakers. So, maybe a possible trade is AD for only the Knicks contracted players that they actually desire and as many first round picks as in which the negotiation would result.

So this could effectively be an AD for #3 + Mitch and/or DSJ + future picks. (I don't think the NOP want 1 year of Dot, even at $1.6m, etc, etc, and I don't think they want Kevin or Frank.) They could choose what they wanted to take - saving on salary cap, in contrast to a putative trade for AD once 65% of the NYK salary cap was tied up in max-FAs and 80% of ADs salary had to be matched.

I think (outsiders excluded) the NYK have a better package for AD than any other team in the market (Lakers presumed excluded, Boston assumed out), and the trade into space package would benefit both teams.

So what would that leave the Knicks with in terms of space? That depends on the details of the deal, and we can certainly burrow down into the numbers if desired. Squinting at it late at night the minimum is $13.5m and the max is about $20m .. but that's very rough.

Why would the Knicks do this? First of all, maybe they can ship DSJ to NOP and have KD+AD and space for a $20m FA. Would that tempt Vuc? Would KD+AD+Vuc be a decent core? Secondly, they still have almost all of the trade tokens and can do lots of packaging young prospects whose salaries sum to less than $6.533m for 175% trades for vets. If they have to ship all of those contracts at 125% for AD that is losing a huge amount of value. Bonus: when KD's contract ends Ad will be 29 and good to go for another 4 years.

tl;dr. Suppose KD is coming and (hence) the Knicks are going into win it now mode. Would the Knicks be better off/well off using the remaining cap space to sign AD, and build a team around KD+AD?

I think you are right. There are a strong possibility that we give up the goal to bring a Second Max player and only absorve AD contract with Cap space.

NO must must be satisfied with RJ + Mitch + 2 FRPs for AD and we could keep Dennis, Dotson, Knox and Frank at least until the trade deadline.

This trade would leave us with around 15MM in cap space. We would bring Jordan back (24/3 or 30/3) and a experient PG like Bervely, Colison or Rubio.

Dennis/Bervely
Dotson/Trier/Frank
KD/Knox
AD/Room Exception
Jordan/Pick55

[Worst_to_First]

RJ, Mitch and the Dallas 2021 and 2023 (Top 10 protected) first rounders should be a good enough haul for the Pelicans if Celtics and Lakers are taken out of the picture.

I think we would have the room to take Solomon Hill’s contract off their hands as well but I would pull the Mavs’ 2021 pick out of the deal if the Pelicans insist on this.

[Reign23]

#3, Mitch,Knox, Smith, Trier, 2021 and 23 dallas picks for AD and Jrue.

[Buttah304]

Would anyone here even consider taking Jrue Holiday in a potential AD deal? He just averaged 21-8-5 on 48% FG. He’s making $26 Mill instead of the potential $37+ Mill you would have to pay Kemba or Kyrie.

Jrue Holiday
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis

Any idea as to how many wins that core 3 gets you in the East?

Not advocating this by any means. More or less wondering how people feel about that.

[robillionaire]

Would anyone here even consider taking Jrue Holiday in a potential AD deal? He just averaged 21-8-5 on 48% FG. He’s making $26 Mill instead of the potential $37+ Mill you would have to pay Kemba or Kyrie.

Jrue Holiday
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis

Any idea as to how many wins that core 3 gets you in the East?

Not advocating this by any means. More or less wondering how people feel about that.

how could you even make the salaries match

[Juco24]

Would anyone here even consider taking Jrue Holiday in a potential AD deal? He just averaged 21-8-5 on 48% FG. He’s making $26 Mill instead of the potential $37+ Mill you would have to pay Kemba or Kyrie.

Jrue Holiday
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis

Any idea as to how many wins that core 3 gets you in the East?

Not advocating this by any means. More or less wondering how people feel about that.

In all honesty- this wouldn't surprise me one bit and I think it's the best move here... from what we have all heard, in return for AD *NO wants young studs *NO wants draft picks and *NO wants salary relief. NY can offer all of that in return for AD & JH and in return come away with possibly a better fit @ PG than Kemba or Kyrie.

Imagine a lineup of:
Holiday
Caldwell-pope
Jordan
Davis
Durant

Could fill out the rest of the roster with Dots, Zo, Luke, veterans and lefties from the trade

[Juco24]

Would anyone here even consider taking Jrue Holiday in a potential AD deal? He just averaged 21-8-5 on 48% FG. He’s making $26 Mill instead of the potential $37+ Mill you would have to pay Kemba or Kyrie.

Jrue Holiday
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis

Any idea as to how many wins that core 3 gets you in the East?

Not advocating this by any means. More or less wondering how people feel about that.

how could you even make the salaries match

We wouldn't have to right? By us being under the cap... couldn't we take back more salary

[Richard4444]

Would anyone here even consider taking Jrue Holiday in a potential AD deal? He just averaged 21-8-5 on 48% FG. He’s making $26 Mill instead of the potential $37+ Mill you would have to pay Kemba or Kyrie.

Jrue Holiday
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis

Any idea as to how many wins that core 3 gets you in the East?

Not advocating this by any means. More or less wondering how people feel about that.

how could you even make the salaries match

We wouldn't have to right? By us being under the cap... couldn't we take back more salary

Whats cap space? After signing Durant we have about 32MM of Cap Space. We need 52MM to absorve Jrue and AD salary.

[Juco24]

how could you even make the salaries match

We wouldn't have to right? By us being under the cap... couldn't we take back more salary

Whats cap space? After signing Durant we have about 32MM of Cap Space. We need 52MM to absorve Jrue and AD salary.

I don't KNOW the answer but by sending over Knox, Frank, 1st rounder, Mitch, DSJ that would be enough to make a Davis trade work right?

And is it possible to trade for Holiday taking back more salary? Thus the space we would've had for Kyrie??? I don't know the cap like many here

[boogeydown]

The Team I would try to put together next year:

DeAndre Jordan/Tyson Chandler
Anthony Davis/ Markieff Morris
Kevin Durant/ Jeff Green/ 2nd round pick
Alonzo Trier/Jamal Crawford/ (G League player)
Kyrie Irving/ Quinn Cook

We sign KD and Kyrie to Max Deals.
Trade for Anthony Davis
Convince DeAndre Jordan to sign for the MLE
Tyson Chandler, Markieff Morris, Jeff Green and Jamal Crawford are already playing for veteran minimum deals and all free agents this year so I think we can convince them to come play here and complete for a championship.
We would be a bit weak at SG but maybe we can find a shooter to come play on a cheap deal as well?

[camby23]

The Team I would try to put together next year:

DeAndre Jordan/Tyson Chandler
Anthony Davis/ Markieff Morris
Kevin Durant/ Jeff Green/ 2nd round pick
Alonzo Trier/Jamal Crawford/ (G League player)
Kyrie Irving/ Quinn Cook

We sign KD and Kyrie to Max Deals.
Trade for Anthony Davis
Convince DeAndre Jordan to sign for the MLE
Tyson Chandler, Markieff Morris, Jeff Green and Jamal Crawford are already playing for veteran minimum deals and all free agents this year so I think we can convince them to come play here and complete for a championship.
We would be a bit weak at SG but maybe we can find a shooter to come play on a cheap deal as well?

I'd rather have Dotson (we dont have to trade him for AD) and Wayne Ellington for vet.min.