The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III

rzzzzz · Post #601 » by **rzzzzz** » Sat Jun 1, 2019 3:10 pm

Stanford wrote:I guess you guys didn't get the memo. Drew Hanlen has been cancelled.

Cancelled by anyone besides Markelle and his crew, for coming to the conclusion that the kid's shoulder was seriously and possibly permanently trashed?

Post #602 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Jun 1, 2019 3:14 pm

Hanlen isn’t any better than 30 other skills coaches with fewer instagram followers. Some guys get better working with him some don’t. Who Ben works with is less important than the work Ben does.

rzzzzz · Post #603 » by **rzzzzz** » Sat Jun 1, 2019 4:06 pm

Sixerscan wrote:Hanlen isn’t any better than 30 other skills coaches with fewer instagram followers. Some guys get better working with him some don’t. Who Ben works with is less important than the work Ben does.

i don't know. Meyers Leonard just a couple weeks ago saying that working with Drew saved his NBA career. Tatum looked a whole lot better after he worked with him. I mean you could blame Drew for tempting Embiid to take all those 3 point shots, but Joel definitely could shoot the ball better after spending time with him. Zach Lavine. Mo Bamba. Bradley Beal, of course. Heck, Markelle was shooting better at the end of last summer. The fact it fell apart again makes me think that he really does have TOS, and maybe from an injury he's got reasons he doesn't want to share.

Post #604 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Jun 1, 2019 4:19 pm

rzzzzz wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:Hanlen isn’t any better than 30 other skills coaches with fewer instagram followers. Some guys get better working with him some don’t. Who Ben works with is less important than the work Ben does.

i don't know. Meyers Leonard just a couple weeks ago saying that working with Drew saved his NBA career. Tatum looked a whole lot better after he worked with him. I mean you could blame Drew for tempting Embiid to take all those 3 point shots, but Joel definitely could shoot the ball better after spending time with him. Zach Lavine. Mo Bamba. Bradley Beal, of course. Heck, Markelle was shooting better at the end of last summer. The fact it fell apart again makes me think that he really does have TOS, and maybe from an injury he's got reasons he doesn't want to share.

Tatum has been working with Hanlen since he was like 12 years old hasn’t he? Beal was Hanlen’s original mealticket and Tatum was his protege.

There’s other guys, Oubre, Ojelye, some others. He tends to pound his chest more when guys succeed and they go to the background when they don’t.

I’m not saying he’s a bad coach or anything, he seems like a pretty good one that has some success stories, but I wouldn’t confuse the advantage with training with Hanlen versus another top trainer as opposed to someone not training properly. Like was it really Hanlen that got Embiid shooting or did Embiid just not really try to learn to shoot before?

rzzzzz · Post #605 » by **rzzzzz** » Sat Jun 1, 2019 7:10 pm

Sixerscan wrote: but I wouldn’t confuse the advantage with training with Hanlen versus another top trainer as opposed to someone not training properly.

you got me there. i jumped on the suggestion of Hanlen as opposed to Ben going with his brother. who might be good, but wasn't that who Ben settled for last year? not sure how much expertise his family's got and how much they will push him.

Mik317 · Post #606 » by **Mik317** » Sat Jun 1, 2019 7:48 pm

Tatum and Embiid's shooting either stagnated or regressed this year.

Hanlen can't really beat his chest on those grounds

rzzzzz · Post #607 » by **rzzzzz** » Sun Jun 2, 2019 2:14 am

Mik317 wrote:Tatum and Embiid's shooting either stagnated or regressed this year.
Hanlen can't really beat his chest on those grounds

i don't really mean, or want, to be pitching Hanlen ad nauseum. but maybe if those guys were better right after working with him, they should go back for a refresher? (though actually, i'd give Embiid's deteriorating condition over the season some consideration.)

kio80 · Post #608 » by **kio80** » Sun Jun 2, 2019 2:34 am

I will be happy with anyone besides Ben’s brother.

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Simmons25 · Post #609 » by **Simmons25** » Sun Jun 2, 2019 4:37 am

kio80 wrote:I will be happy with anyone besides Ben’s brother.

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Exactly. I don't care whether it's Hanlen or whoever... Hanlen was just an example. Anyone but Ben's brother. This nepotism along with Ben's godfather becoming the Australian Assistant coach completely out of the blue (No way in 1 million years is he better qualified for that role than 20 other Australian coaches I can think of). It just reeks.

And this claim that his brother will be tougher on him that anyone else is just rubbish. He's your brother... if you tell him to get f#@ked because you can't be bothered training some day what's he going to do... tell your mummy on you.

kio80 · Post #610 » by **kio80** » Sun Jun 2, 2019 5:14 am

Simmons25 wrote:
kio80 wrote:I will be happy with anyone besides Ben’s brother.

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Exactly. I don't care whether it's Hanlen or whoever... Hanlen was just an example. Anyone but Ben's brother. This nepotism along with Ben's godfather becoming the Australian Assistant coach completely out of the blue (No way in 1 million years is he better qualified for that role than 20 other Australian coaches I can think of). It just reeks.

And this claim that his brother will be tougher on him that anyone else is just rubbish. He's your brother... if you tell him to get f#@ked because you can't be bothered training some day what's he going to do... tell your mummy on you.

I will probably be more satisfied having his mum than his brother training Ben.
Don’t care if she knows how to shoot or not, just keep making him shoot the damn ball.

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Mik317 · Post #611 » by **Mik317** » Sun Jun 2, 2019 5:59 am

you can't fire your brother. you damn sure can fire any one else lol.

i don't give a damn who he trains with...just that he comes back willing to take jumpers. thats all on him. no one can make him do a damn thing be it family or the shooting pope...he has to be willing to take jumpers first and foremost. He could shoot with his elbows for all I care, he cannot be gunshy this training camp. Chances are that even if we run it back, the biggest step forward will come from him not clogging up the lane and being worth guarding...that alone happening will make us pretty unstoppable. So Embiid doesn't have to be at 100% at all times. So Jimmy doesn't have to be the whole halfcourt offense. So Tobias can have off shooting nights. Ben learning how to contribute in the halfcourt will make it so his man can;t cheat off of him and we can actually run plays because his man won't be free to blow everything up and for Ben to truly be the PG he so desperately wants to be.

That all starts from him simply being willing to take a damn jumper. I don't expect him to be shooting step backs next year. Hell I suspect the best he could do from 3 is like 28%. But he has to take them. He does that, then I'd max him on the spot because it will be the first sign of him actually working on his flaws and being prepared to look bad doing so. If he shows up for training camp with the same song and dance, then he is a lost cause and probably needs to be moved come trading deadline if not sooner.

this is it.

Post #612 » by **kingofthecourt67** » Sun Jun 2, 2019 6:26 pm

Mik317 wrote:you can't fire your brother. you damn sure can fire any one else lol.

i don't give a damn who he trains with...just that he comes back willing to take jumpers. thats all on him. no one can make him do a damn thing be it family or the shooting pope...he has to be willing to take jumpers first and foremost. He could shoot with his elbows for all I care, he cannot be gunshy this training camp. Chances are that even if we run it back, the biggest step forward will come from him not clogging up the lane and being worth guarding...that alone happening will make us pretty unstoppable. So Embiid doesn't have to be at 100% at all times. So Jimmy doesn't have to be the whole halfcourt offense. So Tobias can have off shooting nights. Ben learning how to contribute in the halfcourt will make it so his man can;t cheat off of him and we can actually run plays because his man won't be free to blow everything up and for Ben to truly be the PG he so desperately wants to be.

That all starts from him simply being willing to take a damn jumper. I don't expect him to be shooting step backs next year. Hell I suspect the best he could do from 3 is like 28%. But he has to take them. He does that, then I'd max him on the spot because it will be the first sign of him actually working on his flaws and being prepared to look bad doing so. If he shows up for training camp with the same song and dance, then he is a lost cause and probably needs to be moved come trading deadline if not sooner.

this is it.

100%

Percentages don't matter. Heck I don't even care if they're 3s. If his willingness to shoot jumpers leads to the defender having to take one step up towards him, that's a major victory.

PhillyPhilly · Post #613 » by **PhillyPhilly** » Sun Jun 2, 2019 10:03 pm

Mik317 wrote:you can't fire your brother. you damn sure can fire any one else lol.

i don't give a damn who he trains with...just that he comes back willing to take jumpers. thats all on him. no one can make him do a damn thing be it family or the shooting pope...he has to be willing to take jumpers first and foremost. He could shoot with his elbows for all I care, he cannot be gunshy this training camp. Chances are that even if we run it back, the biggest step forward will come from him not clogging up the lane and being worth guarding...that alone happening will make us pretty unstoppable. So Embiid doesn't have to be at 100% at all times. So Jimmy doesn't have to be the whole halfcourt offense. So Tobias can have off shooting nights. Ben learning how to contribute in the halfcourt will make it so his man can;t cheat off of him and we can actually run plays because his man won't be free to blow everything up and for Ben to truly be the PG he so desperately wants to be.

That all starts from him simply being willing to take a damn jumper. I don't expect him to be shooting step backs next year. Hell I suspect the best he could do from 3 is like 28%. But he has to take them. He does that, then I'd max him on the spot because it will be the first sign of him actually working on his flaws and being prepared to look bad doing so. If he shows up for training camp with the same song and dance, then he is a lost cause and probably needs to be moved come trading deadline if not sooner.

this is it.

If he doesn't fix his form and release, then him taking jumpshots would be like turning the ball over willingly, it wouldn't make any sense. In his rookie year he did make jumpers from fifteen feet on the regular but it all went downhill last season and he needs to make sure he follows through with the plan of working with Dennis Scott this summer and hopefully he comes back to camp with much better mechanics. Then he should have the confidence to take them again.

sixerswillrule · Post #614 » by **sixerswillrule** » Sun Jun 2, 2019 10:31 pm

kingofthecourt67 wrote:
Mik317 wrote:you can't fire your brother. you damn sure can fire any one else lol.

i don't give a damn who he trains with...just that he comes back willing to take jumpers. thats all on him. no one can make him do a damn thing be it family or the shooting pope...he has to be willing to take jumpers first and foremost. He could shoot with his elbows for all I care, he cannot be gunshy this training camp. Chances are that even if we run it back, the biggest step forward will come from him not clogging up the lane and being worth guarding...that alone happening will make us pretty unstoppable. So Embiid doesn't have to be at 100% at all times. So Jimmy doesn't have to be the whole halfcourt offense. So Tobias can have off shooting nights. Ben learning how to contribute in the halfcourt will make it so his man can;t cheat off of him and we can actually run plays because his man won't be free to blow everything up and for Ben to truly be the PG he so desperately wants to be.

That all starts from him simply being willing to take a damn jumper. I don't expect him to be shooting step backs next year. Hell I suspect the best he could do from 3 is like 28%. But he has to take them. He does that, then I'd max him on the spot because it will be the first sign of him actually working on his flaws and being prepared to look bad doing so. If he shows up for training camp with the same song and dance, then he is a lost cause and probably needs to be moved come trading deadline if not sooner.

this is it.

100%

Percentages don't matter. Heck I don't even care if they're 3s. If his willingness to shoot jumpers leads to the defender having to take one step up towards him, that's a major victory.

The percentages might matter. I mean he was something like 0/20 this season on normal pull up mid range jumpers. His shot is just very, very bad and any defender has no reason to even try to contest until he shows he can make shots.

Bum Adebayo · Post #615 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:24 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:
kingofthecourt67 wrote:
Mik317 wrote:you can't fire your brother. you damn sure can fire any one else lol.

i don't give a damn who he trains with...just that he comes back willing to take jumpers. thats all on him. no one can make him do a damn thing be it family or the shooting pope...he has to be willing to take jumpers first and foremost. He could shoot with his elbows for all I care, he cannot be gunshy this training camp. Chances are that even if we run it back, the biggest step forward will come from him not clogging up the lane and being worth guarding...that alone happening will make us pretty unstoppable. So Embiid doesn't have to be at 100% at all times. So Jimmy doesn't have to be the whole halfcourt offense. So Tobias can have off shooting nights. Ben learning how to contribute in the halfcourt will make it so his man can;t cheat off of him and we can actually run plays because his man won't be free to blow everything up and for Ben to truly be the PG he so desperately wants to be.

That all starts from him simply being willing to take a damn jumper. I don't expect him to be shooting step backs next year. Hell I suspect the best he could do from 3 is like 28%. But he has to take them. He does that, then I'd max him on the spot because it will be the first sign of him actually working on his flaws and being prepared to look bad doing so. If he shows up for training camp with the same song and dance, then he is a lost cause and probably needs to be moved come trading deadline if not sooner.

this is it.

100%

Percentages don't matter. Heck I don't even care if they're 3s. If his willingness to shoot jumpers leads to the defender having to take one step up towards him, that's a major victory.

The percentages might matter. I mean he was something like 0/20 this season on normal pull up mid range jumpers. His shot is just very, very bad and any defender has no reason to even try to contest until he shows he can make shots.

Bad percentages are better than refusing to shoot, there is no worse plan compared to refusing to shoot.

kio80 · Post #616 » by **kio80** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:33 pm

Has anyone imagined a scenario where Ben starts shooting, but it’s so bad that we prefer him not to shoot? Going back to his old self?

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PhilasFinest · Post #617 » by **PhilasFinest** » Tue Jun 4, 2019 12:08 am

kio80 wrote:Has anyone imagined a scenario where Ben starts shooting, but it’s so bad that we prefer him not to shoot? Going back to his old self?

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Around here I could. People bitch and complain about everything.

moistie · Post #618 » by **moistie** » Wed Jun 5, 2019 11:25 am

Given the armchair experts here know exactly how hard and how much Ben trains, how is his off-season coming along?

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51X3RF4N · Post #619 » by **51X3RF4N** » Wed Jun 5, 2019 11:57 am

PhilasFinest wrote:
kio80 wrote:Has anyone imagined a scenario where Ben starts shooting, but it’s so bad that we prefer him not to shoot? Going back to his old self?

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Around here I could. People bitch and complain about everything.

The only reason I disagree that this could even happen is the improvement of his FT and the pregame warmups I've seen videos and in person where he is knocking down corner 3s and stepping into 3s from the top of the key. Those shots give me the hope that when he actually chooses to shoot in games, the shots will fall eventually, even if only at a 33% clip. I'll settle for 33% from 3 and slightly higher from inside the 3pt line. That's a heck of a lot better than simply not shooting so defenses can collapse in the paint.

If he had like, no footage of even taking jumpers or his FT rate was below 50% and not getting any better, I'd have cause for major concern that his shot would ever become serviceable. But it's not a "bad" shot we are talking about it's simply a non-utilized shot to this point.

sixerswillrule · Post #620 » by **sixerswillrule** » Wed Jun 5, 2019 1:01 pm

51X3RF4N wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:
kio80 wrote:Has anyone imagined a scenario where Ben starts shooting, but it’s so bad that we prefer him not to shoot? Going back to his old self?

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Around here I could. People bitch and complain about everything.
The only reason I disagree that this could even happen is the improvement of his FT and the pregame warmups I've seen videos and in person where he is knocking down corner 3s and stepping into 3s from the top of the key. Those shots give me the hope that when he actually chooses to shoot in games, the shots will fall eventually, even if only at a 33% clip. I'll settle for 33% from 3 and slightly higher from inside the 3pt line. That's a heck of a lot better than simply not shooting so defenses can collapse in the paint.

If he had like, no footage of even taking jumpers or his FT rate was below 50% and not getting any better, I'd have cause for major concern that his shot would ever become serviceable. But it's not a "bad" shot we are talking about it's simply a non-utilized shot to this point.

There's a big difference between shooting in practice vs. in games though. Yeah his FT shooting sightly improved but there's still a ways to go and his form is as bad as ever. His shooting overall has regressed if anything.

Rookie year - 40/131 from 12-18 feet, 31%
Last year - 7/46 from 12-18 feet, 15%

His shooting in high school looked much better than it does now. He actually had decent form. Hopefully something clicks this summer but right now I'd doubt he will ever be a 33% three point shooter let alone within the next few years.