If We Must Compete... let’s do w/o the dbags

[BadMofoPimp]

Ah yes...more of the "Hey, this isn't what I want, but if the Pistons are going to try to win now I hope they go with this completely thought out to the most minute detail scenario even though it isn't what I want at all" topics.

Just own it, dude. You're in the "win now" camp; we get it.

Because of the reality of the situation, yes, this is what I want. I didn’t sugar coat anything.
Did you forget this is only a forum and none of us are actually making decisions on this team? We’re stuck with what we’ve got so this is my scenario where we at least become watchable again.

If you start a movement to overthrow Gores and his “win-now” approach I’ll be in the front line.

Of course I haven't forgotten it's a forum; I'm one of the first people to remind others that it IS only a forum and no one posting here has any influence on what the team does. But when people lay out these elaborate scenarios with the caveat of "Well, it's not what I want but if we're not going to rebuild I hope they do this" it's like they're trying to avoid criticism. Which leads back to my point--it's only forum, but the fact that it's a forum means you should expect ideas to be evaluated/criticized by others; that's the whole point of the forum.

That being said, being "more watchable" in the short term is the recipe for the treadmill; that's exactly what we've been getting. Because "more watchable" basically equates to being better/winning more. And in my opinion, that's exactly what's preventing this team from having the assets to become REALLY watchable, i.e. a championship contender.

I get that some people would rather the team be "sorta good" all the time and just hope that maybe lightning gets caught in a bottle and a championship happens to pop up somewhere. I'm just not that way because I want real championship contention. I'd rather the team suffer through the bad years required to build a true championship contender.

Well, there is about a zero chance the Pistons are able to move Drummond and Blake for another year maybe two years, so may as well try to win until that time comes when they are in a position to tank.

But, I know the RealGM drill, read daily for two years from posters whine and complain in every other post they will ever make about the same old crap about their dreams of miraculously dumping the high priced players they hate for great assets and rebuilding on the fly as if it is going to happen because they rationalize it to be so easily. Not going to happen. Deal with it.

If the Pistons rebuild, it will be a year or two from now when those contracts are more moveable.

[mattao313]

Id also heavily go after Gordon Hayward. We need to take some risk in order for this core to do anything slightly exciting.

[Manocad]

Because of the reality of the situation, yes, this is what I want. I didn’t sugar coat anything.
Did you forget this is only a forum and none of us are actually making decisions on this team? We’re stuck with what we’ve got so this is my scenario where we at least become watchable again.

If you start a movement to overthrow Gores and his “win-now” approach I’ll be in the front line.

Of course I haven't forgotten it's a forum; I'm one of the first people to remind others that it IS only a forum and no one posting here has any influence on what the team does. But when people lay out these elaborate scenarios with the caveat of "Well, it's not what I want but if we're not going to rebuild I hope they do this" it's like they're trying to avoid criticism. Which leads back to my point--it's only forum, but the fact that it's a forum means you should expect ideas to be evaluated/criticized by others; that's the whole point of the forum.

That being said, being "more watchable" in the short term is the recipe for the treadmill; that's exactly what we've been getting. Because "more watchable" basically equates to being better/winning more. And in my opinion, that's exactly what's preventing this team from having the assets to become REALLY watchable, i.e. a championship contender.

I get that some people would rather the team be "sorta good" all the time and just hope that maybe lightning gets caught in a bottle and a championship happens to pop up somewhere. I'm just not that way because I want real championship contention. I'd rather the team suffer through the bad years required to build a true championship contender.

Well, there is about a zero chance the Pistons are able to move Drummond and Blake for another year maybe two years, so may as well try to win until that time comes when they are in a position to tank.

But, I know the RealGM drill, read daily for two years from posters whine and complain in every other post they will ever make about the same old crap about their dreams of miraculously dumping the high priced players they hate for great assets and rebuilding on the fly as if it is going to happen because they rationalize it to be so easily. Not going to happen. Deal with it.

If the Pistons rebuild, it will be a year or two from now when those contracts are more moveable.

The “may as well try to win” philosophy is one I’m not one board with. Like you said, all evidence points to the real window of opportunity for foundation building being in a couple of years. Therefore winning more now just lowers the draft position. Granted, draft position certainly isn’t the be all, end all of building a great team. But it sure as hell doesn’t hurt to have a higher draft position. I don’t have any problem with the team being “less watchable” right now because it’s a means to an end. And as has been noted, the “win now” moves have generally lead to overpaid/underperforming players and bad contracts that hinder the team’s ability to make future moves.

[BadMofoPimp]

Of course I haven't forgotten it's a forum; I'm one of the first people to remind others that it IS only a forum and no one posting here has any influence on what the team does. But when people lay out these elaborate scenarios with the caveat of "Well, it's not what I want but if we're not going to rebuild I hope they do this" it's like they're trying to avoid criticism. Which leads back to my point--it's only forum, but the fact that it's a forum means you should expect ideas to be evaluated/criticized by others; that's the whole point of the forum.

That being said, being "more watchable" in the short term is the recipe for the treadmill; that's exactly what we've been getting. Because "more watchable" basically equates to being better/winning more. And in my opinion, that's exactly what's preventing this team from having the assets to become REALLY watchable, i.e. a championship contender.

I get that some people would rather the team be "sorta good" all the time and just hope that maybe lightning gets caught in a bottle and a championship happens to pop up somewhere. I'm just not that way because I want real championship contention. I'd rather the team suffer through the bad years required to build a true championship contender.

Well, there is about a zero chance the Pistons are able to move Drummond and Blake for another year maybe two years, so may as well try to win until that time comes when they are in a position to tank.

But, I know the RealGM drill, read daily for two years from posters whine and complain in every other post they will ever make about the same old crap about their dreams of miraculously dumping the high priced players they hate for great assets and rebuilding on the fly as if it is going to happen because they rationalize it to be so easily. Not going to happen. Deal with it.

If the Pistons rebuild, it will be a year or two from now when those contracts are more moveable.

The “may as well try to win” philosophy is one I’m not one board with. Like you said, all evidence points to the real window of opportunity for foundation building being in a couple of years. Therefore winning more now just lowers the draft position. Granted, draft position certainly isn’t the be all, end all of building a great team. But it sure as hell doesn’t hurt to have a higher draft position. I don’t have any problem with the team being “less watchable” right now because it’s a means to an end. And as has been noted, the “win now” moves have generally lead to overpaid/underperforming players and bad contracts that hinder the team’s ability to make future moves.

I guess your reading comprehension is on hangover. I said that Drummond and Blake will not be moved for up to 2 years, so may as well make the best out of this roster until the time comes that Blake can be moved. FYI. Can't tank while those two are on the roster anyways. Deal with it.

I reckon you will be one of the people whining "tank, tank, tank" constantly for the next 2 years until we will have cap relief.

[DCintheD]

Well, there is about a zero chance the Pistons are able to move Drummond and Blake for another year maybe two years, so may as well try to win until that time comes when they are in a position to tank.

But, I know the RealGM drill, read daily for two years from posters whine and complain in every other post they will ever make about the same old crap about their dreams of miraculously dumping the high priced players they hate for great assets and rebuilding on the fly as if it is going to happen because they rationalize it to be so easily. Not going to happen. Deal with it.

If the Pistons rebuild, it will be a year or two from now when those contracts are more moveable.

The “may as well try to win” philosophy is one I’m not one board with. Like you said, all evidence points to the real window of opportunity for foundation building being in a couple of years. Therefore winning more now just lowers the draft position. Granted, draft position certainly isn’t the be all, end all of building a great team. But it sure as hell doesn’t hurt to have a higher draft position. I don’t have any problem with the team being “less watchable” right now because it’s a means to an end. And as has been noted, the “win now” moves have generally lead to overpaid/underperforming players and bad contracts that hinder the team’s ability to make future moves.

I guess your reading comprehension is on hangover.

this is exactly why it’s not worth it with this guy.

[DetroitPistons]

Id also heavily go after Gordon Hayward. We need to take some risk in order for this core to do anything slightly exciting.

Only if they include one of their picks. I would gladly take Hayward if they include #14. If no FRP is coming our way then I would reject. Too much risk without a pick.

[mattao313]

Id also heavily go after Gordon Hayward. We need to take some risk in order for this core to do anything slightly exciting.

Only if they include one of their picks. I would gladly take Hayward if they include #14. If no FRP is coming our way then I would reject. Too much risk without a pick.

Id do Reggie and Leuer in a heartbeat, the chance to get a 6'8 wing that can handle the ball dont come up often. Id trade picks with them to 15 for 22 or whatever they have.

[DetroitPistons]

Id also heavily go after Gordon Hayward. We need to take some risk in order for this core to do anything slightly exciting.

Only if they include one of their picks. I would gladly take Hayward if they include #14. If no FRP is coming our way then I would reject. Too much risk without a pick.

Id do Reggie and Leuer in a heartbeat, the chance to get a 6'8 wing that can handle the ball dont come up often. Id trade picks with them to 15 for 22 or whatever they have.

trading back from 15 to 22 would immediately be a no for me. Jackson had a way better year than Hayward with a much better contract and you would be willing to make that trade while ALSO trading down 7 spots. Hell no.

[Spider156]

Id also heavily go after Gordon Hayward. We need to take some risk in order for this core to do anything slightly exciting.

I agree with this. I think he's worth our expirings. I'd take the chance. Then wait another year for Drummond to get traded as an expiring if things don't go well again. I wouldn't give up any assets for hayward though. Just expirings.

[Manocad]

Well, there is about a zero chance the Pistons are able to move Drummond and Blake for another year maybe two years, so may as well try to win until that time comes when they are in a position to tank.

But, I know the RealGM drill, read daily for two years from posters whine and complain in every other post they will ever make about the same old crap about their dreams of miraculously dumping the high priced players they hate for great assets and rebuilding on the fly as if it is going to happen because they rationalize it to be so easily. Not going to happen. Deal with it.

If the Pistons rebuild, it will be a year or two from now when those contracts are more moveable.

The “may as well try to win” philosophy is one I’m not one board with. Like you said, all evidence points to the real window of opportunity for foundation building being in a couple of years. Therefore winning more now just lowers the draft position. Granted, draft position certainly isn’t the be all, end all of building a great team. But it sure as hell doesn’t hurt to have a higher draft position. I don’t have any problem with the team being “less watchable” right now because it’s a means to an end. And as has been noted, the “win now” moves have generally lead to overpaid/underperforming players and bad contracts that hinder the team’s ability to make future moves.

I guess your reading comprehension is on hangover. I said that Drummond and Blake will not be moved for up to 2 years, so may as well make the best out of this roster until the time comes that Blake can be moved. FYI. Can't tank while those two are on the roster anyways. Deal with it.

I reckon you will be one of the people whining "tank, tank, tank" constantly for the next 2 years until we will have cap relief.

Except you didn’t say “May as well try to make the best out of this roster,” you said “may as well try to win until they’re in a position to tank.” In this context, which is a thread about making moves to still try to win now, I took that as still trying to make short term improvement moves before clearing house can begin in a couple of years. Riding it out with this roster, no moves at all, is EXACTLY what I’ve been suggesting all along that the team should do. Unless of course a good return could be gotten for Blake or Dre. And I have also ALWAYS been clearly anti-tank; you can’t intentionally try to lose games when the fans are paying money to watch the team play.

My position has always been the same and it sounds like we’re on the same page—right now this team is a very low return on investment product. High cost, low quality. It cannot be improved without overspending further (giving up future assets, continued to be salary capped) so IMO it’s best to ride it out as is until the garbage falls off, then try again.

[Manocad]

The “may as well try to win” philosophy is one I’m not one board with. Like you said, all evidence points to the real window of opportunity for foundation building being in a couple of years. Therefore winning more now just lowers the draft position. Granted, draft position certainly isn’t the be all, end all of building a great team. But it sure as hell doesn’t hurt to have a higher draft position. I don’t have any problem with the team being “less watchable” right now because it’s a means to an end. And as has been noted, the “win now” moves have generally lead to overpaid/underperforming players and bad contracts that hinder the team’s ability to make future moves.

I guess your reading comprehension is on hangover.

this is exactly why it’s not worth it with this guy.

By that statement it appears you seek to gain something by taking part in an Internet forum. Maybe go buy a puppy to ease your disappointment.

[mattao313]

Id also heavily go after Gordon Hayward. We need to take some risk in order for this core to do anything slightly exciting.

I agree with this. I think he's worth our expirings. I'd take the chance. Then wait another year for Drummond to get traded as an expiring if things don't go well again. I wouldn't give up any assets for hayward though. Just expirings.

I honestly dont think Boston would just give him away for expirings.

[DCintheD]

I guess your reading comprehension is on hangover.

this is exactly why it’s not worth it with this guy.

By that statement it appears you seek to gain something by taking part in an Internet forum. Maybe go buy a puppy to ease your disappointment.

All it means is that it’s not worth debating with you because you clearly don’t read or comprehend people’s post well enough to justify it.
Keep hitting the hard stuff buddy I hope you’ll continue to get personal validation on the false assumptions and accusations you make of others.

[Manocad]

this is exactly why it’s not worth it with this guy.

By that statement it appears you seek to gain something by taking part in an Internet forum. Maybe go buy a puppy to ease your disappointment.

All it means is that it’s not worth debating with you because you clearly don’t read or comprehend people’s post well enough to justify it.
Keep hitting the hard stuff buddy I hope you’ll continue to get personal validation on the false assumptions and accusations you make of others.

Feel better now? Need a tissue?

Don’t worry, Nancy—it only bleeds for a week.

[DCintheD]

By that statement it appears you seek to gain something by taking part in an Internet forum. Maybe go buy a puppy to ease your disappointment.

All it means is that it’s not worth debating with you because you clearly don’t read or comprehend people’s post well enough to justify it.
Keep hitting the hard stuff buddy I hope you’ll continue to get personal validation on the false assumptions and accusations you make of others.

Feel better now? Need a tissue?

Don’t worry, Nancy—it only bleeds for a week.

You must be speaking from experience

[Manocad]

All it means is that it’s not worth debating with you because you clearly don’t read or comprehend people’s post well enough to justify it.
Keep hitting the hard stuff buddy I hope you’ll continue to get personal validation on the false assumptions and accusations you make of others.

Feel better now? Need a tissue?

Don’t worry, Nancy—it only bleeds for a week.

You must be speaking from experience

Stick to posts about basketball, champ. It appears that witty back and forth one upsmanship isn’t in your wheelhouse.

[vege]

Only if they include one of their picks. I would gladly take Hayward if they include #14. If no FRP is coming our way then I would reject. Too much risk without a pick.

Id do Reggie and Leuer in a heartbeat, the chance to get a 6'8 wing that can handle the ball dont come up often. Id trade picks with them to 15 for 22 or whatever they have.

trading back from 15 to 22 would immediately be a no for me. Jackson had a way better year than Hayward with a much better contract and you would be willing to make that trade while ALSO trading down 7 spots. Hell no.

I agree with this, Hayward is one of my favorite players in the league, but his contract, and his production are just awful. I wouldn't do Hayward for expirings even if they include the #14, they would need to add some real value for me to consider taking on that much salary.

[BadMofoPimp]

Id do Reggie and Leuer in a heartbeat, the chance to get a 6'8 wing that can handle the ball dont come up often. Id trade picks with them to 15 for 22 or whatever they have.

trading back from 15 to 22 would immediately be a no for me. Jackson had a way better year than Hayward with a much better contract and you would be willing to make that trade while ALSO trading down 7 spots. Hell no.

I agree with this, Hayward is one of my favorite players in the league, but his contract, and his production are just awful. I wouldn't do Hayward for expirings even if they include the #14, they would need to add some real value for me to consider taking on that much salary.

Who would play PG then if the Pistons trade Reggie for Hayward?

[vege]

trading back from 15 to 22 would immediately be a no for me. Jackson had a way better year than Hayward with a much better contract and you would be willing to make that trade while ALSO trading down 7 spots. Hell no.

I agree with this, Hayward is one of my favorite players in the league, but his contract, and his production are just awful. I wouldn't do Hayward for expirings even if they include the #14, they would need to add some real value for me to consider taking on that much salary.

Who would play PG then if the Pistons trade Reggie for Hayward?

Ish Smith or someone with the MLE or part of the MLE.