Free agency and trade ideas: Which wings do we go after this summer?

[lilfishi22]

You think they'd do it if it eats into cap space being that his hold is only $9.6? If we agree to say 14, that's throwing $4.4 million of cap space down the drain isn't it? Unless we just agree in principle and sign after signing others.

I think they are basically just putting it out there to kind of scare off other teams in free agency. The last thing we want is some random team out of nowhere offering a fat deal to Oubre.

I do have a question regarding restricted free agency though, if say Oubre gets an offer for $2m a year more than what we have agreed in principle with him, do we only have to match it if Oubre signs that other offer?

As usual, I read Shams article and that tweet isn't exactly what the article said. It was pure speculation...something more along the lines of "Expect the Suns to make keeping Oubre a top option....he could be an option for other teams if they strike out on the big fish"

BSoTS might drive up Oubre's value themselves.

Edit: Here is exactly what it said...

Phoenix Suns

Expect restricted free agent Kelly Oubre Jr. to emerge as a priority for the Suns entering July 1. Oubre averaged 20.2 points per game in 12 starts for the Suns during their best stretch of the season to close 2018-19. If Oubre enters the market, he’s a prime option for teams with cap space that strike out on their first-tier targets.

https://theathletic.com/1006765/2019/06/04/charanias-inside-pass-all-eyes-on-davis-and-pelicans-future-as-their-talks-begin-to-take-shape-plus-more-league-notes/

I guess that doesn't say much then. But my question is, if we agree in principle and no actual contract is signed and a team comes with a nice offer, does Oubre have to sign that offer in order for us to match? Or can he be a company man and ignore those nice offers so we're not forced to match before we've done our offseason wheeling and dealing ?

[bwgood77]

Last time Dinwiddie was a starter he shot 39% from the field, 33% from 3, and had a lower EFG% than Lonzo Ball. Oh and he doesn't play much D and is just an average passer at his position. Crazy how hyped people are getting over this guy. I'll take him as an upgrade but he's pretty far down my list of ideal PGs for this team.

Yeah, I mean do people view him as PG of the future? I like him quite a bit...had him on fantasy but giving up 6 for him? I know it's not a good draft but you can likely find someone almost as good in FA, and use the pick on someone who could have high upside or help elsewhere. Now if I knew for sure Grant Williams was there at 17 and I didn't like the options at 6, I might consider, but it's hardly something I'd get excited about.

Well, I guess any new PG that is an NBA caliber rotation PG starting would be nice, but I don't see him as a PG of the future or anything.

[bwgood77]

I think they are basically just putting it out there to kind of scare off other teams in free agency. The last thing we want is some random team out of nowhere offering a fat deal to Oubre.

I do have a question regarding restricted free agency though, if say Oubre gets an offer for $2m a year more than what we have agreed in principle with him, do we only have to match it if Oubre signs that other offer?

As usual, I read Shams article and that tweet isn't exactly what the article said. It was pure speculation...something more along the lines of "Expect the Suns to make keeping Oubre a top option....he could be an option for other teams if they strike out on the big fish"

BSoTS might drive up Oubre's value themselves.

Edit: Here is exactly what it said...

Phoenix Suns

Expect restricted free agent Kelly Oubre Jr. to emerge as a priority for the Suns entering July 1. Oubre averaged 20.2 points per game in 12 starts for the Suns during their best stretch of the season to close 2018-19. If Oubre enters the market, he’s a prime option for teams with cap space that strike out on their first-tier targets.

https://theathletic.com/1006765/2019/06/04/charanias-inside-pass-all-eyes-on-davis-and-pelicans-future-as-their-talks-begin-to-take-shape-plus-more-league-notes/

I guess that doesn't say much then. But my question is, if we agree in principle and no actual contract is signed and a team comes with a nice offer, does Oubre have to sign that offer in order for us to match? Or can he be a company man and ignore those nice offers so we're not forced to match before we've done our offseason wheeling and dealing ?

Of course he doesn't have to sign any offers...he's a free agent...he can sign or ignore any offers he wants. It's not like an auction. I would probably go up to maybe $14 and if he wanted to test the market instead of verbally agree to that I'd let him and then see if I want to match depending on whatever else happens in FA/trades....but he may get another offer and still prefer the Suns and not take theirs and try to use as leverage. I'd be a little uneasy above $15 or so for that type of player. I can see what Lowe and them say when they describe him as empty calories, though I think they ignore what he brings to the locker room...but at the same time I think Monty and the coaching staff will bring a lot of that.

[lilfishi22]

As usual, I read Shams article and that tweet isn't exactly what the article said. It was pure speculation...something more along the lines of "Expect the Suns to make keeping Oubre a top option....he could be an option for other teams if they strike out on the big fish"

BSoTS might drive up Oubre's value themselves.

Edit: Here is exactly what it said...



https://theathletic.com/1006765/2019/06/04/charanias-inside-pass-all-eyes-on-davis-and-pelicans-future-as-their-talks-begin-to-take-shape-plus-more-league-notes/

I guess that doesn't say much then. But my question is, if we agree in principle and no actual contract is signed and a team comes with a nice offer, does Oubre have to sign that offer in order for us to match? Or can he be a company man and ignore those nice offers so we're not forced to match before we've done our offseason wheeling and dealing ?

Of course he doesn't have to sign any offers...he's a free agent...he can sign or ignore any offers he wants. It's not like an auction. I would probably go up to maybe $14 and if he wanted to test the market I'd let him and then see if I want to match depending on whatever else happens in FA/trades.

I just mean like, from a cap perspective, if a random team sends him an offer sheet, does part of our cap space then get held up whether he signs or not? Or does it only become held up if he signs that deal and we'll have like 3 days to match. I think you answered the question though

[bwgood77]

I guess that doesn't say much then. But my question is, if we agree in principle and no actual contract is signed and a team comes with a nice offer, does Oubre have to sign that offer in order for us to match? Or can he be a company man and ignore those nice offers so we're not forced to match before we've done our offseason wheeling and dealing ?

Of course he doesn't have to sign any offers...he's a free agent...he can sign or ignore any offers he wants. It's not like an auction. I would probably go up to maybe $14 and if he wanted to test the market I'd let him and then see if I want to match depending on whatever else happens in FA/trades.

I just mean like, from a cap perspective, if a random team sends him an offer sheet, does part of our cap space then get held up whether he signs or not? Or does it only become held up if he signs that deal and we'll have like 3 days to match. I think you answered the question though

We will have a $9.6 million cap hold if we maintain matching rights, regardless of what other offer he signs, until we match, which we would likely do after we have signed whoever else we wanted to sign. Most deals are done fairly quickly after the moratorium because we have like a week to verbally work them out, so we would squeeze our FA(s) into our $10 million or so cap space (or however that changes due to potential trades) and then match...even if we matched $15 his hold of $9.6 against our cap wouldn't change because we could just as easily not match.

[jcsunsfan]

Last time Dinwiddie was a starter he shot 39% from the field, 33% from 3, and had a lower EFG% than Lonzo Ball. Oh and he doesn't play much D and is just an average passer at his position. Crazy how hyped people are getting over this guy. I'll take him as an upgrade but he's pretty far down my list of ideal PGs for this team.

Yeah, I mean do people view him as PG of the future? I like him quite a bit...had him on fantasy but giving up 6 for him? I know it's not a good draft but you can likely find someone almost as good in FA, and use the pick on someone who could have high upside or help elsewhere. Now if I knew for sure Grant Williams was there at 17 and I didn't like the options at 6, I might consider, but it's hardly something I'd get excited about.

Well, I guess any new PG that is an NBA caliber rotation PG starting would be nice, but I don't see him as a PG of the future or anything.

OH come on, Blonde. Those stats are from four games.

I can do it too. When Dinwiddie gets 30-39 minutes his TS% is .602. He shoots 47% from the field and 38% from three. At least there is a 19 game sample for my stats.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dinwisp01/splits/2019

[Kerrsed]

Just read that OKC is looking to give away the #21 pick for a team willing to help them gain some salary cap space and Schroders name is the one being attached. Dont know if anybody is interested in him.

[Blonde]

Last time Dinwiddie was a starter he shot 39% from the field, 33% from 3, and had a lower EFG% than Lonzo Ball. Oh and he doesn't play much D and is just an average passer at his position. Crazy how hyped people are getting over this guy. I'll take him as an upgrade but he's pretty far down my list of ideal PGs for this team.

Yeah, I mean do people view him as PG of the future? I like him quite a bit...had him on fantasy but giving up 6 for him? I know it's not a good draft but you can likely find someone almost as good in FA, and use the pick on someone who could have high upside or help elsewhere. Now if I knew for sure Grant Williams was there at 17 and I didn't like the options at 6, I might consider, but it's hardly something I'd get excited about.

Well, I guess any new PG that is an NBA caliber rotation PG starting would be nice, but I don't see him as a PG of the future or anything.

OH come on, Blonde. Those stats are from four games.

I can do it too. When Dinwiddie gets 30-39 minutes his TS% is .602. He shoots 47% from the field and 38% from three. At least there is a 19 game sample for my stats.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dinwisp01/splits/2019

Actually those stats are from 80 games in the 2017-2018 season. Not sure what you're talking about

[Stark]

I love reading about your ideas but threatening Warren as a filler in these trades that won't change anything in this team is making me really confused guys. Warren is the new Tucker of this roster. Everyone wants to get rid of him just because they want a new, shinier toy. This dude improved every year, he definitely showed that basketball is a top priority in his career and he has never complained about the role changes and minutes. We gave the starting role to a washed up Ariza even though he showed that he deserved that spot but he just did his best and took the spot back like a true professional by hardwork.

He is crazy efficient and if we had an actual system and a good roster you would see how important he can be in the current NBA. (He became our best shooter in one effin season ffs.) Please don't start with "well if he had been a really good player we could have been a better team but we sucked so let's trade his ass" argument. This team and management is horrible. The team hasn't had a point guard for two seasons and besides 2-3 players rest of the roster is either rookie or g league type of players. Warren is not the problem that we have been searching for, he is one of the few bright spot in this team.

Bridges won't turn into the veteran 3&D player that you dreamed of in one season. Oubre is super overrated and a worse player than Warren. I have no idea why everyone is super ok with giving Oubre 12-15M while we have a solid starter (Warren) and a good young player (Bridges) while there is this enormous holes with the pg/pf positions.

I don't wanna even start with this whole overration of college players that proved nothing over productive NBA players like Warren which is super weird. I'm sure that half of the board would be OK with trading Warren for Clarke which is a totally absurd idea for me.

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[jcsunsfan]

Yeah, I mean do people view him as PG of the future? I like him quite a bit...had him on fantasy but giving up 6 for him? I know it's not a good draft but you can likely find someone almost as good in FA, and use the pick on someone who could have high upside or help elsewhere. Now if I knew for sure Grant Williams was there at 17 and I didn't like the options at 6, I might consider, but it's hardly something I'd get excited about.

Well, I guess any new PG that is an NBA caliber rotation PG starting would be nice, but I don't see him as a PG of the future or anything.

OH come on, Blonde. Those stats are from four games.

I can do it too. When Dinwiddie gets 30-39 minutes his TS% is .602. He shoots 47% from the field and 38% from three. At least there is a 19 game sample for my stats.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dinwisp01/splits/2019

Actually those stats are from 80 games in the 2017-2018 season. Not sure what you're talking about

I linked what I was talking about. The last time he was a starter, is what you said. That would be the four games he was a starter in 2018-19. I just looked up the stats based upon what you said they were. Mine are linked too and are more recent and applicable.

[Blonde]

OH come on, Blonde. Those stats are from four games.

I can do it too. When Dinwiddie gets 30-39 minutes his TS% is .602. He shoots 47% from the field and 38% from three. At least there is a 19 game sample for my stats.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dinwisp01/splits/2019

Actually those stats are from 80 games in the 2017-2018 season. Not sure what you're talking about

I linked what I was talking about. The last time he was a starter, is what you said. That would be the four games he was a starter in 2018-19. I just looked up the stats based upon what you said they were. Mine are linked too and are more recent and applicable.

Just because he started 4 games last season did not make him a starter. He was a bench player who spot started 4 times. I'm not dense enough to quote a 4 game sample. My post was pretty clearly referring to the prior season when he started the majority of games.

[bwgood77]

Last time Dinwiddie was a starter he shot 39% from the field, 33% from 3, and had a lower EFG% than Lonzo Ball. Oh and he doesn't play much D and is just an average passer at his position. Crazy how hyped people are getting over this guy. I'll take him as an upgrade but he's pretty far down my list of ideal PGs for this team.

Yeah, I mean do people view him as PG of the future? I like him quite a bit...had him on fantasy but giving up 6 for him? I know it's not a good draft but you can likely find someone almost as good in FA, and use the pick on someone who could have high upside or help elsewhere. Now if I knew for sure Grant Williams was there at 17 and I didn't like the options at 6, I might consider, but it's hardly something I'd get excited about.

Well, I guess any new PG that is an NBA caliber rotation PG starting would be nice, but I don't see him as a PG of the future or anything.

OH come on, Blonde. Those stats are from four games.

I can do it too. When Dinwiddie gets 30-39 minutes his TS% is .602. He shoots 47% from the field and 38% from three. At least there is a 19 game sample for my stats.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dinwisp01/splits/2019

I think it's fairly important to get a solid shooter but just as importantly a solid defender, or at least an average defender next to Book. He rated 99 out of 102 PGs in DRPM. Only ahead of Trae, Sexton and Clarkson. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM/position/1

I think he's a fine backup/spark off the bench, but starter, especially next to another guard who struggles defensively and had a down year shooting from 3, might be tough.

His entire year sample from 3 is 33% too so that's probably a good sample...career is 32%. If Book gets hot that's probably not respectable enough to keep defenses honest enough not to double...or it's barely close.

[bwgood77]

I love reading about your ideas but threatening Warren as a filler in these trades that won't change anything in this team is making me really confused guys. Warren is the new Tucker of this roster. Everyone wants to get rid of him just because they want a new, shinier toy. This dude improved every year, he definitely showed that basketball is a top priority in his career and he has never complained about the role changes and minutes. We gave the starting role to a washed up Ariza even though he showed that he deserved that spot but he just did his best and took the spot back like a true professional by hardwork.

He is crazy efficient and if we had an actual system and a good roster you would see how important he can be in the current NBA. (He became our best shooter in one effin season ffs.) Please don't start with "well if he had been a really good player we could have been a better team but we sucked so let's trade his ass" argument. This team and management is horrible. The team hasn't had a point guard for two seasons and besides 2-3 players rest of the roster is either rookie or g league type of players. Warren is not the problem that we have been searching for, he is one of the few bright spot in this team.

Bridges won't turn into the veteran 3&D player that you dreamed of in one season. Oubre is super overrated and a worse player than Warren. I have no idea why everyone is super ok with giving Oubre 12-15M while we have a solid starter (Warren) and a good young player (Bridges) while there is this enormous holes with the pg/pf positions.

I don't wanna even start with this whole overration of college players that proved nothing over productive NBA players like Warren which is super weird. I'm sure that half of the board would be OK with trading Warren for Clarke which is a totally absurd idea for me.

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I agree with all of this...and I'm pretty high on Clarke. But TJ is a proven contributor and a hard worker who will do what is asked...as well as our best 3 pt shooter this past year by a long shot (Daniels was close but barely played)....and we are the worst 3 pt shooting team. I really don't know what the team plans to do with him...everyone is under the assumption he's on the block but I think part of that is simply because he's quiet and the bloggers/Ashley/etc, take this to mean he's unhappy or something or they want to make more out of his injury than is there, etc.

I've just kind of accepted the narrative that he will be traded or whatever, but I don't think anyone truly knows. Monty may really want him and value what he provides...who knows? I think Gina Mizell has as much access to anyone and someone asked her about TJ in a mailbag and her response was...

Nothing new to note on T.J. Warren, other than that he has definitely been a name floated (by outsiders) as a possible offseason trade piece. But for now, he’s under contract through the 2021-22 season.

https://theathletic.com/1002835/2019/05/30/phoenix-suns-mailbag-deandre-aytons-year-2-point-guards-and-monty-williams-staff/

But, all in all, Bridges obviously is a keeper, and it seems the team wants to hang onto Oubre, so it's somewhat easy to surmise they are open to trading TJ if they can upgrade it, especially if they can't trade JJ to upgrade. But who knows really?

[Saberestar]

Last time Dinwiddie was a starter he shot 39% from the field, 33% from 3, and had a lower EFG% than Lonzo Ball. Oh and he doesn't play much D and is just an average passer at his position. Crazy how hyped people are getting over this guy. I'll take him as an upgrade but he's pretty far down my list of ideal PGs for this team.

Yeah, I mean do people view him as PG of the future? I like him quite a bit...had him on fantasy but giving up 6 for him? I know it's not a good draft but you can likely find someone almost as good in FA, and use the pick on someone who could have high upside or help elsewhere. Now if I knew for sure Grant Williams was there at 17 and I didn't like the options at 6, I might consider, but it's hardly something I'd get excited about.

Well, I guess any new PG that is an NBA caliber rotation PG starting would be nice, but I don't see him as a PG of the future or anything.

I view Dinwiddie as our PG of the future. 16.8 points and 4.6 assists per game on a playoff team. He is a great ball handler and creates for himself and his teammates. Good shooter and decent defender who can defend SGs and some SFs because of his size.

He is not really a bench player, he has played over 28 mpg the last couple of seasons. He is a 6th man that can start for a team like the Suns.

Not the perfect PG, but he is a good realistic option out there. I don't really like any prospect at #6, so I would trade the pick for him.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Not sure if this was posted yet, But......

Read on Twitter

?s=09 . Pretty cool that he'd want to be here!

I think we need to try and target more players and prospects that have stated their interest in playing for us: Brandon Clarke, Zylan Cheatham, Now Dinwiddie too. ( If he is actually talking about us.....that is).

I see you must be new to Suns Reddit.

Thats fake as hell.

Yep, not too familiar with it yet, saw this posted on Twitter by Kellan Olson. Which is why I relayed it ........

[Kerrsed]

Not sure if this was posted yet, But......

Read on Twitter

?s=09 . Pretty cool that he'd want to be here!

I think we need to try and target more players and prospects that have stated their interest in playing for us: Brandon Clarke, Zylan Cheatham, Now Dinwiddie too. ( If he is actually talking about us.....that is).

I see you must be new to Suns Reddit.

Thats fake as hell.

Yep, not too familiar with it yet, saw this posted on Twitter by Kellan Olson. Which is why I relayed it ........

Always be cautious if its a "Screenshot" instead of an actual link to a post. If it was real they would have retweeted it with their comment instead of re-posting a dubious screenshot.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Not sure if this was posted yet, But......

Read on Twitter

?s=09 . Pretty cool that he'd want to be here!

I think we need to try and target more players and prospects that have stated their interest in playing for us: Brandon Clarke, Zylan Cheatham, Now Dinwiddie too. ( If he is actually talking about us.....that is).

Probably better to verify stuff like that when it looks like a photoshop image....a bad one at that.

Sorry man, I'm not really that computer and internet savvy yet, as you're surely aware. So I wouldn't be familiar with identifying fake photoshopped images as distinctly as some. But definitely, Kudos to you for promptly correcting my error.

But again, Aside from that, I still think it would be a good pattern to establish in bringing in talented prospects that have a vested interest in our team, such as it being their hometown team, favorite team, etc.

As just opposed to those possibly not that enthused about being here. And just collecting a paycheck.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I see you must be new to Suns Reddit.

Thats fake as hell.

Yep, not too familiar with it yet, saw this posted on Twitter by Kellan Olson. Which is why I relayed it ........

Always be cautious if its a "Screenshot" instead of an actual link to a post. If it was real they would have retweeted it with their comment instead of re-posting a dubious screenshot.

Thanks man. Again, I assumed it to be somewhat valid as it was tweeted out by Kellan Olson, and not being too familiar with Twitter, As I just barely joined up.

But I appreciate the advice. Especially that it was presented in a constructive and non pretentious manner too.

Anyways I'm learning on the fly, But do appreciate it.

[bwgood77]

Not sure if this was posted yet, But......

Read on Twitter

?s=09 . Pretty cool that he'd want to be here!

I think we need to try and target more players and prospects that have stated their interest in playing for us: Brandon Clarke, Zylan Cheatham, Now Dinwiddie too. ( If he is actually talking about us.....that is).

Probably better to verify stuff like that when it looks like a photoshop image....a bad one at that.

Sorry man, I'm not really that computer and internet savvy yet, as you're surely aware. So I wouldn't be familiar with identifying fake photoshopped images as distinctly as some. But definitely, Kudos to you for promptly correcting my error.

But again, Aside from that, I still think it would be a good pattern to establish in bringing in talented prospects that have a vested interest in our team, such as it being their hometown team, favorite team, etc.

As just opposed to those possibly not that enthused about being here. And just collecting a paycheck.

I wouldn't call myself "savvy" but if I see a tweet image like that I will search for Spencer Dinwiddie's account and click on his "Tweets and Replies" and see if he actually tweeted that.

[Young gun 6]

Would love Holiday for #6 and wouldn’t mind Ball for it either.

Holiday for #6 and JJ would be an incredible deal for us.