2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery

[SfBull]

14,20,22 straight up.

More like 14, 20 or 22, and 51.

While I get the logic of acquiring multiple picks, how would this ever work? Teams have an 8-9 man rotation. They will have Zach, Lauri, Otto and WCJ plus two veterans, so that's six. Where are these 4 or five rookies going to play?

What happens with Arci, Hutch, Val, Dunn, Shaq?

This move has no regard for team building. Most players, outside of a select few like Zion, develop based on their environment. If the whole team consists of young players on first contracts, how are they going to win? How are they going to develop when they're the equivalent of a G League team with each individual trying to prove themself?

Arci,Hutch,Val,Dunn,Shaq are all expendable.If you could get better players trading down why wouldn't you play them?
None of these players are keepers including Dunn.

[cjbulls]

More like 14, 20 or 22, and 51.

While I get the logic of acquiring multiple picks, how would this ever work? Teams have an 8-9 man rotation. They will have Zach, Lauri, Otto and WCJ plus two veterans, so that's six. Where are these 4 or five rookies going to play?

What happens with Arci, Hutch, Val, Dunn, Shaq?

This move has no regard for team building. Most players, outside of a select few like Zion, develop based on their environment. If the whole team consists of young players on first contracts, how are they going to win? How are they going to develop when they're the equivalent of a G League team with each individual trying to prove themself?

Arci,Hutch,Val,Dunn,Shaq are all expendable.If you could get better players trading down why wouldn't you play them?
None of these players are keepers including Dunn.

None of them are going to make the all-star team, but they will help you win games and will help you develop LOL and WCJ. You won’t even be able to tell what you have because there will be too many young guys trying to make it.

Here are those picks in 2014 and 2015 to give a random sampling of what results to expect (I chose these years because this is where they sign second contracts). I’d actually say this over-represents due to the weak draft.

2014
14-TJ Warren
20-Bruno Caboclo
22-Jordan Adams
38-Spencer Dinwiddie
51-Thanasis Antetokounmpo

2015
14-Cam Payne
20-Delon Wright
22-Bobby Portis
38-Darrun Hilliard
51-Tyler Harvey

These players are all expendable too. When are they going to play? How are they going to help the team as rookies (or even second and third year players)? Prospects develop, they don’t just show up as great players, certainly not at these pick numbers.

[jump]

More like 14, 20 or 22, and 51.

While I get the logic of acquiring multiple picks, how would this ever work? Teams have an 8-9 man rotation. They will have Zach, Lauri, Otto and WCJ plus two veterans, so that's six. Where are these 4 or five rookies going to play?

What happens with Arci, Hutch, Val, Dunn, Shaq?

This move has no regard for team building. Most players, outside of a select few like Zion, develop based on their environment. If the whole team consists of young players on first contracts, how are they going to win? How are they going to develop when they're the equivalent of a G League team with each individual trying to prove themself?

Arci,Hutch,Val,Dunn,Shaq are all expendable.If you could get better players trading down why wouldn't you play them?
None of these players are keepers including Dunn.

You’re assuming hypothetical rookies are going to be better than players who were drafted in the same position a year or two ago. What evidence is there that we can assume that? No team has ever succeeded with three or four rookies on the squad. Bulls should keep #7 and try to trade up for one of Boston’s lower picks in the first round. Dunn and 38 for 20.

[TheSuzerain]

While I get the logic of acquiring multiple picks, how would this ever work? Teams have an 8-9 man rotation. They will have Zach, Lauri, Otto and WCJ plus two veterans, so that's six. Where are these 4 or five rookies going to play?

What happens with Arci, Hutch, Val, Dunn, Shaq?

This move has no regard for team building. Most players, outside of a select few like Zion, develop based on their environment. If the whole team consists of young players on first contracts, how are they going to win? How are they going to develop when they're the equivalent of a G League team with each individual trying to prove themself?

Arci,Hutch,Val,Dunn,Shaq are all expendable.If you could get better players trading down why wouldn't you play them?
None of these players are keepers including Dunn.

You’re assuming hypothetical rookies are going to be better than players who were drafted in the same position a year or two ago. What evidence is there that we can assume that? No team has ever succeeded with three or four rookies on the squad. Bulls should keep #7 and try to trade up for one of Boston’s lower picks in the first round. Dunn and 38 for 20.

No that's not what he's assuming.

All that matters is they COULD be better players. They have the potential to be quality contributors. Will that potential quickly evaporate as it has for Dunn and Val? Of course it could, but that shouldn't deter us from trying.

[Jvaughn]

14,20,22 straight up.

More like 14, 20 or 22, and 51.

While I get the logic of acquiring multiple picks, how would this ever work? Teams have an 8-9 man rotation. They will have Zach, Lauri, Otto and WCJ plus two veterans, so that's six. Where are these 4 or five rookies going to play?

What happens with Arci, Hutch, Val, Dunn, Shaq?

This move has no regard for team building. Most players, outside of a select few like Zion, develop based on their environment. If the whole team consists of young players on first contracts, how are they going to win? How are they going to develop when they're the equivalent of a G League team with each individual trying to prove themself?

Out of those names, only Hutch should be a priority for the rotation, and that has more to do with the fact that he's still young and the organization is vested in his development.

Arci and Shaq are barely in the league and are very replaceable. Dunn doesn't seem to have a place here anymore and depending on how this off-season goes, he may not even be on the team anymore. Same goes for Val.

That being said, with four draft picks you can afford to bring in 2 or 3 rookies and then use the 2nd rounders for stash picks. There's plenty of options and I wouldn't turn down four draft picks if Boston would be willing to make that move.

[cjbulls]

More like 14, 20 or 22, and 51.

While I get the logic of acquiring multiple picks, how would this ever work? Teams have an 8-9 man rotation. They will have Zach, Lauri, Otto and WCJ plus two veterans, so that's six. Where are these 4 or five rookies going to play?

What happens with Arci, Hutch, Val, Dunn, Shaq?

This move has no regard for team building. Most players, outside of a select few like Zion, develop based on their environment. If the whole team consists of young players on first contracts, how are they going to win? How are they going to develop when they're the equivalent of a G League team with each individual trying to prove themself?

Out of those names, only Hutch should be a priority for the rotation, and that has more to do with the fact that he's still young and the organization is vested in his development.

Arci and Shaq are barely in the league and are very replaceable. Dunn doesn't seem to have a place here anymore and depending on how this off-season goes, he may not even be on the team anymore. Same goes for Val.

That being said, with four draft picks you can afford to bring in 2 or 3 rookies and then use the 2nd rounders for stash picks. There's plenty of options and I wouldn't turn down four draft picks if Boston would be willing to make that move.

The problem isn't that Arci, Shaq, Hutch, Val and Dunn are amazing players, but they are better players right now than whatever 3-5 rookies you are bringing in. How are Lauri or WCJ supposed to get better playing with a bunch of rookies who don't know the game?

Essentially this move is tanking, but instead of tanking with high picks, people now want to tank with a bunch of low picks.

[SfBull]

While I get the logic of acquiring multiple picks, how would this ever work? Teams have an 8-9 man rotation. They will have Zach, Lauri, Otto and WCJ plus two veterans, so that's six. Where are these 4 or five rookies going to play?

What happens with Arci, Hutch, Val, Dunn, Shaq?

This move has no regard for team building. Most players, outside of a select few like Zion, develop based on their environment. If the whole team consists of young players on first contracts, how are they going to win? How are they going to develop when they're the equivalent of a G League team with each individual trying to prove themself?

Arci,Hutch,Val,Dunn,Shaq are all expendable.If you could get better players trading down why wouldn't you play them?
None of these players are keepers including Dunn.

None of them are going to make the all-star team, but they will help you win games and will help you develop LOL and WCJ. You won’t even be able to tell what you have because there will be too many young guys trying to make it.

Here are those picks in 2014 and 2015 to give a random sampling of what results to expect (I chose these years because this is where they sign second contracts). I’d actually say this over-represents due to the weak draft.

2014
14-TJ Warren
20-Bruno Caboclo
22-Jordan Adams
38-Spencer Dinwiddie
51-Thanasis Antetokounmpo

2015
14-Cam Payne
20-Delon Wright
22-Bobby Portis
38-Darrun Hilliard
51-Tyler Harvey

These players are all expendable too. When are they going to play? How are they going to help the team as rookies (or even second and third year players)? Prospects develop, they don’t just show up as great players, certainly not at these pick numbers.

Using #14,#20 and #22 for getting Little,Goga and Cameron Johnson would potentially get you better players than these you were listed and even in that group you could pick Wright which played very well coming from the bench for Toronto ( you certainly remember how many times he torched the Bulls in 2017) and obviously Dinwiddie.

[TheSuzerain]

While I get the logic of acquiring multiple picks, how would this ever work? Teams have an 8-9 man rotation. They will have Zach, Lauri, Otto and WCJ plus two veterans, so that's six. Where are these 4 or five rookies going to play?

What happens with Arci, Hutch, Val, Dunn, Shaq?

This move has no regard for team building. Most players, outside of a select few like Zion, develop based on their environment. If the whole team consists of young players on first contracts, how are they going to win? How are they going to develop when they're the equivalent of a G League team with each individual trying to prove themself?

Out of those names, only Hutch should be a priority for the rotation, and that has more to do with the fact that he's still young and the organization is vested in his development.

Arci and Shaq are barely in the league and are very replaceable. Dunn doesn't seem to have a place here anymore and depending on how this off-season goes, he may not even be on the team anymore. Same goes for Val.

That being said, with four draft picks you can afford to bring in 2 or 3 rookies and then use the 2nd rounders for stash picks. There's plenty of options and I wouldn't turn down four draft picks if Boston would be willing to make that move.

The problem isn't that Arci, Shaq, Hutch, Val and Dunn are amazing players, but they are better players right now than whatever 3-5 rookies you are bringing in. How are Lauri or WCJ supposed to get better playing with a bunch of rookies who don't know the game?

Essentially this move is tanking, but instead of tanking with high picks, people now want to tank with a bunch of low picks.

I can guarantee that there will be several players drafted at #20 and later in this draft who are better than any of Arci, Shaq, Hutch, Val, or Dunn.

Will we be able to identify those guys/get lucky and draft them? Not necessarily, but it's worth a shot.

[SfBull]

While I get the logic of acquiring multiple picks, how would this ever work? Teams have an 8-9 man rotation. They will have Zach, Lauri, Otto and WCJ plus two veterans, so that's six. Where are these 4 or five rookies going to play?

What happens with Arci, Hutch, Val, Dunn, Shaq?

This move has no regard for team building. Most players, outside of a select few like Zion, develop based on their environment. If the whole team consists of young players on first contracts, how are they going to win? How are they going to develop when they're the equivalent of a G League team with each individual trying to prove themself?

Arci,Hutch,Val,Dunn,Shaq are all expendable.If you could get better players trading down why wouldn't you play them?
None of these players are keepers including Dunn.

You’re assuming hypothetical rookies are going to be better than players who were drafted in the same position a year or two ago. What evidence is there that we can assume that? No team has ever succeeded with three or four rookies on the squad. Bulls should keep #7 and try to trade up for one of Boston’s lower picks in the first round. Dunn and 38 for 20.

I'm assuming these 5 players failed and became expendable so in that supposedly weak draft when people keep posting endless ( and good) evaluations of #3-7 players without really being enthusiastic about any of them ,with top 5 drafting teams selling their picks for veterans ,with all that happening it's a legitimate strategy trying to trade down looking for potentially good players, accepting the apparently consensual idea of a weak draft and looking for improvement by free agency.That's my point.We should be open for all scenarios.

[SfBull]

While I get the logic of acquiring multiple picks, how would this ever work? Teams have an 8-9 man rotation. They will have Zach, Lauri, Otto and WCJ plus two veterans, so that's six. Where are these 4 or five rookies going to play?

What happens with Arci, Hutch, Val, Dunn, Shaq?

This move has no regard for team building. Most players, outside of a select few like Zion, develop based on their environment. If the whole team consists of young players on first contracts, how are they going to win? How are they going to develop when they're the equivalent of a G League team with each individual trying to prove themself?

Out of those names, only Hutch should be a priority for the rotation, and that has more to do with the fact that he's still young and the organization is vested in his development.

Arci and Shaq are barely in the league and are very replaceable. Dunn doesn't seem to have a place here anymore and depending on how this off-season goes, he may not even be on the team anymore. Same goes for Val.

That being said, with four draft picks you can afford to bring in 2 or 3 rookies and then use the 2nd rounders for stash picks. There's plenty of options and I wouldn't turn down four draft picks if Boston would be willing to make that move.

The problem isn't that Arci, Shaq, Hutch, Val and Dunn are amazing players, but they are better players right now than whatever 3-5 rookies you are bringing in. How are Lauri or WCJ supposed to get better playing with a bunch of rookies who don't know the game?

Essentially this move is tanking, but instead of tanking with high picks, people now want to tank with a bunch of low picks.

Are you ruling out free agency improvements?Are Lauri and WCJ getting better playing with these scrubs?

[cjbulls]

Out of those names, only Hutch should be a priority for the rotation, and that has more to do with the fact that he's still young and the organization is vested in his development.

Arci and Shaq are barely in the league and are very replaceable. Dunn doesn't seem to have a place here anymore and depending on how this off-season goes, he may not even be on the team anymore. Same goes for Val.

That being said, with four draft picks you can afford to bring in 2 or 3 rookies and then use the 2nd rounders for stash picks. There's plenty of options and I wouldn't turn down four draft picks if Boston would be willing to make that move.

The problem isn't that Arci, Shaq, Hutch, Val and Dunn are amazing players, but they are better players right now than whatever 3-5 rookies you are bringing in. How are Lauri or WCJ supposed to get better playing with a bunch of rookies who don't know the game?

Essentially this move is tanking, but instead of tanking with high picks, people now want to tank with a bunch of low picks.

I can guarantee that there will be several players drafted at #20 and later in this draft who are better than any of Arci, Shaq, Hutch, Val, or Dunn.

Will we be able to identify those guys/get lucky and draft them? Not necessarily, but it's worth a shot.

Not only would you have to pick them (which is unlikely - a 60 player draft after 14 has maybe one that will become an all-star). But you wouldn't have keep that All-Star long enough to let him develop. You would have called Dinwiddie replacement level and dealt him long before, for example.

[cjbulls]

Out of those names, only Hutch should be a priority for the rotation, and that has more to do with the fact that he's still young and the organization is vested in his development.

Arci and Shaq are barely in the league and are very replaceable. Dunn doesn't seem to have a place here anymore and depending on how this off-season goes, he may not even be on the team anymore. Same goes for Val.

That being said, with four draft picks you can afford to bring in 2 or 3 rookies and then use the 2nd rounders for stash picks. There's plenty of options and I wouldn't turn down four draft picks if Boston would be willing to make that move.

The problem isn't that Arci, Shaq, Hutch, Val and Dunn are amazing players, but they are better players right now than whatever 3-5 rookies you are bringing in. How are Lauri or WCJ supposed to get better playing with a bunch of rookies who don't know the game?

Essentially this move is tanking, but instead of tanking with high picks, people now want to tank with a bunch of low picks.

Are you ruling out free agency improvements?Are Lauri and WCJ getting better playing with these scrubs?

They aren't scrubs. They're NBA-caliber players who have been in the league a few years and understand how to play it. To clear the decks and insert five after-14 picks when we know 4/5 probably won't be in the NBA in 4 years isn't helping.

Veterans aren't signing here to play with a tanking team of all rookies. Vets hate playing with a bunch of rookies.

[cjbulls]

Arci,Hutch,Val,Dunn,Shaq are all expendable.If you could get better players trading down why wouldn't you play them?
None of these players are keepers including Dunn.

None of them are going to make the all-star team, but they will help you win games and will help you develop LOL and WCJ. You won’t even be able to tell what you have because there will be too many young guys trying to make it.

Here are those picks in 2014 and 2015 to give a random sampling of what results to expect (I chose these years because this is where they sign second contracts). I’d actually say this over-represents due to the weak draft.

2014
14-TJ Warren
20-Bruno Caboclo
22-Jordan Adams
38-Spencer Dinwiddie
51-Thanasis Antetokounmpo

2015
14-Cam Payne
20-Delon Wright
22-Bobby Portis
38-Darrun Hilliard
51-Tyler Harvey

These players are all expendable too. When are they going to play? How are they going to help the team as rookies (or even second and third year players)? Prospects develop, they don’t just show up as great players, certainly not at these pick numbers.

Using #14,#20 and #22 for getting Little,Goga and Cameron Johnson would potentially get you better players than these you were listed and even in that group you could pick Wright which played very well coming from the bench for Toronto ( you certainly remember how many times he torched the Bulls in 2017) and obviously Dinwiddie.

In 2014, you would have said the same thing about adding Warren, Caboclo and Adams.

[TheSuzerain]

The problem isn't that Arci, Shaq, Hutch, Val and Dunn are amazing players, but they are better players right now than whatever 3-5 rookies you are bringing in. How are Lauri or WCJ supposed to get better playing with a bunch of rookies who don't know the game?

Essentially this move is tanking, but instead of tanking with high picks, people now want to tank with a bunch of low picks.

I can guarantee that there will be several players drafted at #20 and later in this draft who are better than any of Arci, Shaq, Hutch, Val, or Dunn.

Will we be able to identify those guys/get lucky and draft them? Not necessarily, but it's worth a shot.

Not only would you have to pick them (which is unlikely - a 60 player draft after 14 has maybe one that will become an all-star). But you wouldn't have keep that All-Star long enough to let him develop. You would have called Dinwiddie replacement level and dealt him long before, for example.

lmao you don't need to be an all-star to be far superior to the players you listed.

You are all over the place.

[cjbulls]

I can guarantee that there will be several players drafted at #20 and later in this draft who are better than any of Arci, Shaq, Hutch, Val, or Dunn.

Will we be able to identify those guys/get lucky and draft them? Not necessarily, but it's worth a shot.

Not only would you have to pick them (which is unlikely - a 60 player draft after 14 has maybe one that will become an all-star). But you wouldn't have keep that All-Star long enough to let him develop. You would have called Dinwiddie replacement level and dealt him long before, for example.

lmao you don't need to be an all-star to be far superior to the players you listed.

You are all over the place.

Who would you have taken and developed from the 2014 and 2015 lists I provided? You would have had them all traded again before you could find out.

[cjbulls]

New SI Big Board is out. Interesting only because it strays a little form the usual order. This is the same guy who had an article saying why he didn't think Hunter and Clarke would go as high as people think.

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/nba-draft-big-board-top-100-player-rankings

1.Zion
2. Ja
3. Culver
4. Barrett
5. White
6. Garland
7. Reddish
8. Hunter
9. Goga
12. Rui
14. Little
18. Naw
21. Bol
24. Clarke
27. Edwards
38. Naz Reid

[TheSuzerain]

Not only would you have to pick them (which is unlikely - a 60 player draft after 14 has maybe one that will become an all-star). But you wouldn't have keep that All-Star long enough to let him develop. You would have called Dinwiddie replacement level and dealt him long before, for example.

lmao you don't need to be an all-star to be far superior to the players you listed.

You are all over the place.

Who would you have taken and developed from the 2014 and 2015 lists I provided? You would have had them all traded again before you could find out.

Delon Wright and Portis both showed far more in 2 years than any of those Bulls.

I think we should target Delon Wright this year as he could immediately be our best guard.

[cjbulls]

lmao you don't need to be an all-star to be far superior to the players you listed.

You are all over the place.

Who would you have taken and developed from the 2014 and 2015 lists I provided? You would have had them all traded again before you could find out.

Delon Wright and Portis both showed far more in 2 years than any of those Bulls.

I think we should target Delon Wright this year as he could immediately be our best guard.

Yeah you really would have turned this ship around with rookie Delon Wright in the roster this year plus 4 other non-nba players.

At least you recognize adding a vet delon wright makes more sense.

Good ca

[TheSuzerain]

Who would you have taken and developed from the 2014 and 2015 lists I provided? You would have had them all traded again before you could find out.

Delon Wright and Portis both showed far more in 2 years than any of those Bulls.

I think we should target Delon Wright this year as he could immediately be our best guard.

Yeah you really would have turned this ship around with rookie Delon Wright in the roster this year plus 4 other non-nba players.

At least you recognize adding a vet delon wright makes more sense.

Good ca

Wrong dumbass

I've wanted Delon Wright since his draft year.

[SfBull]

None of them are going to make the all-star team, but they will help you win games and will help you develop LOL and WCJ. You won’t even be able to tell what you have because there will be too many young guys trying to make it.

Here are those picks in 2014 and 2015 to give a random sampling of what results to expect (I chose these years because this is where they sign second contracts). I’d actually say this over-represents due to the weak draft.

2014
14-TJ Warren
20-Bruno Caboclo
22-Jordan Adams
38-Spencer Dinwiddie
51-Thanasis Antetokounmpo

2015
14-Cam Payne
20-Delon Wright
22-Bobby Portis
38-Darrun Hilliard
51-Tyler Harvey

These players are all expendable too. When are they going to play? How are they going to help the team as rookies (or even second and third year players)? Prospects develop, they don’t just show up as great players, certainly not at these pick numbers.

Using #14,#20 and #22 for getting Little,Goga and Cameron Johnson would potentially get you better players than these you were listed and even in that group you could pick Wright which played very well coming from the bench for Toronto ( you certainly remember how many times he torched the Bulls in 2017) and obviously Dinwiddie.

In 2014, you would have said the same thing about adding Warren, Caboclo and Adams.

Probably yes and believing that it would be a good strategy,even failing at least I'd tried it.I like the idea of gambling looking for steals .But you won't see GarPax doing that anyway.Krause maybe did it if he found a potential star at the 2nd round but he was famous for his scouting abilities,some of his choices would work , others not but you could always expect some bold move from him.Garpax have been conservative about it so a trade down is unlikely to happen.