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What to do if there is no max FA coming?

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What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#1 » by zimpy27 » Thu Jun 6, 2019 9:55 am

If Lakers miss out on max FAs then they go for Beal or AD.

I simplified the salaries for 4 free agent needs based on maximum flexibility. The only FA signing that depends on AD or Beal is the $22m for a starting C or PG.
Spoiler:
Salary for FA at $31.6m
Sign a $4.7m MLE

Trade for $27m Beal (Ingram, #4, $8m SG)
Lonzo, Beal, LeBron, Kuzma, FA
Bonga, Hart, MLE, PF/C, Wagner

$22m for a starting C
$8m for a starting SG
$5.4 for a bench PF/C
$4.7m for a bench SF


Trade for $27m AD (Ingram, Lonzo, #4)
FA, FA, LeBron, Kuzma, AD
Bonga, Hart, MLE, FA, Wagner

$22m for a starting PG
$8m for a starting SG
$5.4m for a bench PF/C
$4.7m for a bench SF


Which players should the Lakers go for at each position given the salaries available?

$4.7m for a bench SF
$3.4m for a bench PF/C
$8m for a starting SG
$22m for a starting PG (if AD is traded for)
OR $22m for a starting C (if Beal is traded for)

*you can cut the $3.4m for a backup PF/C and spend $25.4m on the starting PG or C.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#2 » by zimpy27 » Thu Jun 6, 2019 10:41 am

My choices:
Rudy Gay for bench SF
Ed Davis for a bench PF/C
Terrence Ross for starting SG
Malcolm Brogdon for starting PG
Nikola Vucevic for starting C


Lonzo, Beal, LeBron, Kuzma, Vucevic
Bonga, Hart, Gay, Ed Davis, Wagner
OR
Brogdon, Ross, LeBron, Kuzma, AD
Bonga, Hart, Gay, Ed Davis, Wagner
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#3 » by Michael Lucky » Thu Jun 6, 2019 12:50 pm

If a Davis trade fails then we need to trade Lebron. It is that simple. Giving up our young core for Beal would not only make us a first round exit but also keep us from the lottery. No thanks to being stuck in purgatory.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#4 » by snaquille oatmeal » Thu Jun 6, 2019 1:57 pm

My guess is that we will end up with J Butler and Boogie when it’s all said and done. Not my first choice by any means, but that’s how I think it’s going to be.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#5 » by kobe808lak » Thu Jun 6, 2019 2:05 pm

snaquille oatmeal wrote:My guess is that we will end up with J Butler and Boogie when it’s all said and done. Not my first choice by any means, but that’s how I think it’s going to be.


Unfortunately I think these are the guys we really have a shot at. I wouldn't hate Butler I guess... but Boogie is 1 more injury from retirement at this point. I don't even know if I want him on an extreme discount.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#6 » by zimpy27 » Thu Jun 6, 2019 2:36 pm

The value of getting a maximum free agent is that you are getting players who's value supersede the max. As soon as you start paying guys the max who just barely qualify then you've failed. The money is much better spread over super role players.

Only guys I think have value over a max are those that have the reliable ability to take the ball in their hands and force the team to win. To me that's KD, Kawhi, Butler, Kyrie. Giving the max to anyone other than that will just give the Lakers shallow depth without a game-buster.

The point of this thread was to put our numbers so that people can begin to be salary realistic about what the team could put together.

Trading LeBron is a mistake, his Cavs team in his last season would likely be winning a championship right now and they are garbage..
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#7 » by TyCobb » Thu Jun 6, 2019 2:44 pm

This isn't the Eastern conference man.
Read more, learn more, change your posts.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#8 » by tv24lakers » Thu Jun 6, 2019 5:14 pm

Another un-sexy trade scenario for feedback:

The Lakers send Ball (8.7m), Ingram (7.3m), Bonga (1.4m) and the #4 in return for Mike Conley (32.5m), Jaren Jackson (6.9m) and Delon Wright (3.6m)

*2019/2020 salary denoted in parenthesis.

Why would this appeal to the Lakers?
You have an All-star PG that can stretch the floor w/ just two more seasons on his contract. Should Conley not meet expectations – the 2020//2021 would prove to be a high value trade asset due to expiring contract. Jaren Jackson is a promising young PF. Delon Wright, a talented young backup PG on a very reasonable priced contract. Swapping players we are at a +25m in salaries, but we have added 3 solid contributors. We would have approx. $17.5m to spend in free agency to pick up a serviceable SG and C.

Two players of interest… Terrance Ross (SG) and Dewayne Dedmon (C) – not sure what they will be seeking in terms of salary.

New Lineup...
PG Mike Conley Delon Wright
SG Terrance Ross Josh Hart
SF Lebron James Kyle Kuzma
PF Jaren Jackson Moritz Wagner
C Dewayne Dedmon FILL


Why would this appeal to the Grizzlies?
With Ja Morant on the way in it seems sensible to move out Conley and his big contract. While Morant and Ball seemingly play the same position, they have the option to use Ball for trade. Moreover, they clear up $25m in salary room and get two young players and the #4 pick in return.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#9 » by thebigbird » Thu Jun 6, 2019 6:14 pm

TyCobb wrote:This isn't the Eastern conference man.

It's not the eastern conference, but the West is overrated, imo. I mean, Portland made the wcf this year,. I'd take LeBron + the young players + #4 pick + free agent shooters over Portland. If the Lakers miss out on a max free agent then they should hold on to the young players and target shooters in free agency.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#10 » by iQon » Thu Jun 6, 2019 6:20 pm

One more offseason of team friendly-1 year deals...

AD is a FA next summer. For all we know, Kawhi and KD could sign a 2 year deal with a player option next summer. Contract year for BI. Preserve cap flexibility if we strike out and continue grooming what we have.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#11 » by tv24lakers » Thu Jun 6, 2019 8:56 pm

iQon wrote:One more offseason of team friendly-1 year deals...

AD is a FA next summer. For all we know, Kawhi and KD could sign a 2 year deal with a player option next summer. Contract year for BI. Preserve cap flexibility if we strike out and continue grooming what we have.


You honestly believe KD and Kawhi would forgo signing a super-max deal to sign a 2 year deal? financially that would be a dreadful move. AD has indicated more teams that he is willing to be traded to. I would not advise to do 1 and done salaries in hopes to pickup AD next season.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#12 » by Kilroy » Thu Jun 6, 2019 9:23 pm

Michael Lucky wrote:If a Davis trade fails then we need to trade Lebron. It is that simple. Giving up our young core for Beal would not only make us a first round exit but also keep us from the lottery. No thanks to being stuck in purgatory.


Yeah... LeBron will demand out if we get no Max FA this season... It's already rumored... So if no max FA comes, and we can't trade for AD (or Kawhi on an opt-in), then we need to get the best available package for LeBron and not look back.
Which also means getting rid of this ridiculous coaching staff...

Beal is the answer to a question nobody asked...

If we get AD though, we won't need to worry about Max FA guys, because the top players will be lining up to take our money. We'll be turning away guys like Kyrie for Kawhi or KD...
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#13 » by tv24lakers » Thu Jun 6, 2019 9:41 pm

Kilroy wrote:
Michael Lucky wrote:If a Davis trade fails then we need to trade Lebron. It is that simple. Giving up our young core for Beal would not only make us a first round exit but also keep us from the lottery. No thanks to being stuck in purgatory.


Yeah... LeBron will demand out if we get no Max FA this season... It's already rumored... So if no max FA comes, and we can't trade for AD (or Kawhi on an opt-in), then we need to get the best available package for LeBron and not look back.
Which also means getting rid of this ridiculous coaching staff...

Beal is the answer to a question nobody asked...

If we get AD though, we won't need to worry about Max FA guys, because the top players will be lining up to take our money. We'll be turning away guys like Kyrie for Kawhi or KD...


This is laughable. You truly think top FAs will come her for pennies on the dollar.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#14 » by TylersLakers » Thu Jun 6, 2019 10:29 pm

Guys I love no matter if we trade for AD or Beal:

- Al Horford: 3 years, starting at $20M per season -- He's got a player option for $30M, but I imagine he'll decline it if we communicate through back channels that a significant offer is on the way. He would be a great fit for culture as much as anything else. He fits perfectly with LeBron, AD, Beal, everyone on the roster. Ingram and Lonzo need a big who can pick and pop.

- Darren Collison: 3 years, starting at $10M - Partial guarantee 3rd year. If we get him, we can always have him either him or Lonzo on the court. He also has the flexibility to start next to Lonzo in the back court. Can knock down shots, play D, etc.

- Ed Davis: Room exception type of money. If not the room, we could get him on a 2 or 3 year deal starting at $6-8M. A versatile defender, blocks shots, and he showed in the playoffs how valuable he is. I thought Brooklyn looked completely different with him on the court.

- Danny Green: His age worries me a bit but I've wanted him for years. 2 or 3 year deal, starting at $8-10M would be perfect.

- Bojan Bogdanovic (IND): No idea what he's going to go for, and the extent that Indiana is going to go to keep him, but he'd fit great. 3 year deal, starting at about $12-14M? He was unbelievable the second half of the season last year after Oladipo went down.

- Seth Curry: 2 or 3 year deal, beginning at room exception type of money. I wouldn't overspend on Seth as I believe he's overhyped, but if you can get him for room exception type of money as a third guard coming off the bench, you're laughing. 20-25 MPG would be perfect.

- Jeremy Lamb: Had a great year in Charlotte last season. Charlotte has no ability to keep him due to their awful cap situation. 3 year deal, starting at $6-8 million (Lou Williams type of contract) would be attractive for him I'm sure. Maybe you could even get that 3rd year as a team option.

- Trevor Ariza: He's climbing up there in age, but with room exception money, he'd be a great get. Great in the locker room, won a title here, he's just the perfect "glue" type of guy. I could certainly see him playing an Andre Iguoudala role next season here.

- Patrick Beverley: It'll cost money to get him away from the Clippers. It's obvious he's loved there, but depending on what happens with Kawhi/KD, he could get a big deal with the Clippers. If the Clippers do strike big and land their targets, a 3 year deal starting at $10M would keep him away from signing back there on a discount. He's never really made huge money in his career. This team needs culture setters in a massive way. Guys like him, Ariza, Horford would be fantastic in that regard.

- DeMarre Carroll: Room exception type of money, possible ring chaser. He's coming off a big contract, so maybe he's less inclined to chase a payday.

- Our guys: Reggie Bullock, McGee interest me the most. Both would be room exception type of guys and provide some continuity. Bullock is a much better player than he showed and with a coach that has better spacing principles, he'll thrive. McGee played his role perfectly last season, I would just like to see him as a back-up next year. A C tandem of Horford/McGee interests me a ton. As does Ed Davis/McGee. Also, would love the 14th and 15th roster spots to go to Alex Caruso & Johnathan Williams. Those guys deserve an official roster spot next year.

-----------------------------

Trade for Beal:

I think it'll cost Lonzo for a couple reasons: 1) He's further away from a payday, which means something. 2) Wall is out for the season next year. However, maybe that 4th pick (Garland?) and Hart/Wagner added into the deal would balance it out and give Washington the assets they need. It'll save them a crap ton of salary, because 80% of Wall's contract next season will be covered by insurance. A perfect opportunity for Washington to tear down.

Ingram, Hart, Wagner, Bonga, #4, future 1st (Top 4 Protected) for Beal -- Deal is agreed to before the draft, the teams can't recognize it until after the moratorium where we're allowed to use our cap space and don't have to match salary.

Roster:

Lonzo [8.7]/
Beal [27.1]
LeBron [37.4]
Kuzma [2.0]
Caruso [1.4]
(Deng 5.0M)

Gives us about $25M in cap space after cap holds (no Bullock, no McGee, yes Caruso). This is how I'd fill out the roster:

- Sign Horford (3 years, starting at $20M)
- Sign Seth Curry (4 year deal, player option on the 4th year, remainder of cap space, around $5M)
- Sign Trevor Ariza (Room Exception)
- Veteran minimum DeMarre Carroll, Iman Shumpert, McGee
- Bring back Williams & Caruso

PG: Ball/Curry/Caruso
SG: Beal/Shumpert/
SF: LeBron/Ariza
PF: Kuzma/Carroll/
C: Horford/McGee/Williams

Trade for AD:

I'm hoping in an AD trade that we can keep 1 out of Ball or Ingram. If we do, there's no way I give up Hart & Kuzma. At some point, we have to be willing to draw the line in the sand and move onto a Beal trade or something else. So, let's pretend the deal is the following:

Ingram, Ball, Wagner, Bonga, #4, 2021 1st round (unprotected) for Davis -- Like the Beal trade, it's agreed to before the draft and can't be official until after the moratorium.

LeBron [37.4]
Davis [27.1]
Kuzma [2.0M]
Hart [1.9]
Caruso: [1.3]
(Deng: $5.0M)

We have about $32M in cap space after cap holds. If you can get a Kawhi, Irving, etc, you do it. But let's pretend we don't and we fill have to fill the space elsewhere.

- Sign Darren Collison, 3 year deal (partial guarantee on 3rd year), starting at $10M
- Sign Ed Davis, 3 year deal, starting at $6M
- Sign Danny Green, 3 year deal, starting at $10M
- Sign Seth Curry, 3 year deal, starting at $6M
- Sign Trevor Ariza, Room Exception
- Bring back Caruso & Williams
- Sign Shumpert, Carroll, McGee to vet minimum deals

PG: Collison/Curry/Caruso
SG: Green/Hart/Shumpert
SF: LeBron/Ariza/
PF: AD/Kuzma/Carroll
C: Ed Davis/McGee/Williams
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#15 » by tv24lakers » Thu Jun 6, 2019 10:46 pm

With AD we have to contend with multiple teams that his blessing, one of which is Boston. So, if we are truly serious about going for AD it's likely to be very costly to include Zo, BI, Kuz, #4 and possibly others. This trade would severely deplete our roster and take away Kuz is a great bargain asset.

A trade for Beal may still require both Zo and Ingram along with the #4, but we can still hold onto our bargain assets in Kuz and Hart. & this move does not necessarily preclude us from trading for AD in the future.

I'm high on a trade to Memphis... see one of the earlier posts for the details.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#16 » by Spens1 » Thu Jun 6, 2019 11:02 pm

Rubio at P.G, trade for Beal (Ingram).
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#17 » by LAKESHOW » Thu Jun 6, 2019 11:59 pm

I believe we will at least sign thompson
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#18 » by tv24lakers » Fri Jun 7, 2019 12:03 am

Spens1 wrote:Rubio at P.G, trade for Beal (Ingram).


I prefer Zo over Rubio. Beal would command more than just Ingram.
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#19 » by Kilroy » Fri Jun 7, 2019 12:23 am

tv24lakers wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
Michael Lucky wrote:If a Davis trade fails then we need to trade Lebron. It is that simple. Giving up our young core for Beal would not only make us a first round exit but also keep us from the lottery. No thanks to being stuck in purgatory.


Yeah... LeBron will demand out if we get no Max FA this season... It's already rumored... So if no max FA comes, and we can't trade for AD (or Kawhi on an opt-in), then we need to get the best available package for LeBron and not look back.
Which also means getting rid of this ridiculous coaching staff...

Beal is the answer to a question nobody asked...

If we get AD though, we won't need to worry about Max FA guys, because the top players will be lining up to take our money. We'll be turning away guys like Kyrie for Kawhi or KD...


This is laughable. You truly think top FAs will come her for pennies on the dollar.


I think you don't understand our cap position very well...
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Re: What to do if there is no max FA coming? 

Post#20 » by Kilroy » Fri Jun 7, 2019 12:28 am

tv24lakers wrote:With AD we have to contend with multiple teams that his blessing, one of which is Boston. So, if we are truly serious about going for AD it's likely to be very costly to include Zo, BI, Kuz, #4 and possibly others. This trade would severely deplete our roster and take away Kuz is a great bargain asset.

A trade for Beal may still require both Zo and Ingram along with the #4, but we can still hold onto our bargain assets in Kuz and Hart. & this move does not necessarily preclude us from trading for AD in the future.

I'm high on a trade to Memphis... see one of the earlier posts for the details.


Trading Zo, Bi, Kuz and 4 for AD is outlandish, but trading Zo, Ingram, and 4 for freaking Bradley Freaking Beal makes sense to you?
For Kuz and Hart?!

I have no words.
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