2019 Draft Class

[doordoor123]

Wade has been a head coach for literally 6 years, and then of course if you're talking about timeframes so long ago as to be basically irrelevant, you could say that LSU with Shaq is historically doing pretty well.

I would disagree because Shaq could have easily jumped to the NBA from high school. LSU didn’t really develop him as a center. I’m not talking about recruiting, I’m talking about developing.

I really don't know who you're supposed to be referring to as a well-developed big for half these schools, especially since obviously it's not the same coaching staff at these places for 40+ years in a row - what, are you trying to point to Kevin McHale as an example of Minnesota developing big men? Kris Humphries? Joel Przybylla? Who are the bigs from FSU, Gonzaga, Minnesota, Oregon, Baylor, Utah, and Maryland who have amounted to anything in the last 20 years? Which Duke big who wasn't a big-time can't-miss recruit (and there have been plenty of those like Sheldon Williams, Okafor, Josh McRoberts, and Marques Bolden who didn't amount to very much) has developed so much?

I’m not saying they all develop superstars because a lot of that has to do with having natural born ability, but they obviously develop their bigs who tend to get better when they play at those schools. And they have a history of bigs getting developed at those schools (but of course it also varies depending on the coaching staff). Often time there are good depth of bigs from those schools. For instance Brandon Clarke’s development once he went to Gonzaga.

[nolang1]

I would disagree because Shaq could have easily jumped to the NBA from high school. LSU didn’t really develop him as a center. I’m not talking about recruiting, I’m talking about developing.

I really don't know who you're supposed to be referring to as a well-developed big for half these schools, especially since obviously it's not the same coaching staff at these places for 40+ years in a row - what, are you trying to point to Kevin McHale as an example of Minnesota developing big men? Kris Humphries? Joel Przybylla? Who are the bigs from FSU, Gonzaga, Minnesota, Oregon, Baylor, Utah, and Maryland who have amounted to anything in the last 20 years? Which Duke big who wasn't a big-time can't-miss recruit (and there have been plenty of those like Sheldon Williams, Okafor, Josh McRoberts, and Marques Bolden who didn't amount to very much) has developed so much?

I’m not saying they all develop superstars because a lot of that has to do with having natural born ability, but they obviously develop their bigs who tend to get better when they play at those schools. And they have a history of bigs getting developed at those schools (but of course it also varies depending on the coaching staff). Often time there are good depth of bigs from those schools. For instance Brandon Clarke’s development once he went to Gonzaga.

Clarke was a 1st-round prospect in my eyes while at SJSU; just look at their record before and after he was there and it's pretty clear he does a lot of stuff that impacts wins and losses. Also comparing redshirt transfer 22-23 year olds to 19-year-old freshmen is absurd enough on its own.

Anyhow, this seems like a lot of doubling down when you likely just got fooled by Naz Reid having some big game early in the season against a non-conference creampuff. He's always been an unathletic big who shows flashes of skill but not much more than flashes.

[doordoor123]

I really don't know who you're supposed to be referring to as a well-developed big for half these schools, especially since obviously it's not the same coaching staff at these places for 40+ years in a row - what, are you trying to point to Kevin McHale as an example of Minnesota developing big men? Kris Humphries? Joel Przybylla? Who are the bigs from FSU, Gonzaga, Minnesota, Oregon, Baylor, Utah, and Maryland who have amounted to anything in the last 20 years? Which Duke big who wasn't a big-time can't-miss recruit (and there have been plenty of those like Sheldon Williams, Okafor, Josh McRoberts, and Marques Bolden who didn't amount to very much) has developed so much?

I’m not saying they all develop superstars because a lot of that has to do with having natural born ability, but they obviously develop their bigs who tend to get better when they play at those schools. And they have a history of bigs getting developed at those schools (but of course it also varies depending on the coaching staff). Often time there are good depth of bigs from those schools. For instance Brandon Clarke’s development once he went to Gonzaga.

Clarke was a 1st-round prospect in my eyes while at SJSU; just look at their record before and after he was there and it's pretty clear he does a lot of stuff that impacts wins and losses. Also comparing redshirt transfer 22-23 year olds to 19-year-old freshmen is absurd enough on its own.

Anyhow, this seems like a lot of doubling down when you likely just got fooled by Naz Reid having some big game early in the season against a non-conference creampuff. He's always been an unathletic big who shows flashes of skill but not much more than flashes.

I’m not comparing them. Clarke was much better when he went to a team that caters to bigs. Just making a point that certain teams are better at developing bigs.

Reid went to a team that doesn’t develop bigs, they don’t often get bigs. Reid is 19 years old in his first year of college, he’s only going to get better.

[nolang1]

I’m not saying they all develop superstars because a lot of that has to do with having natural born ability, but they obviously develop their bigs who tend to get better when they play at those schools. And they have a history of bigs getting developed at those schools (but of course it also varies depending on the coaching staff). Often time there are good depth of bigs from those schools. For instance Brandon Clarke’s development once he went to Gonzaga.

Clarke was a 1st-round prospect in my eyes while at SJSU; just look at their record before and after he was there and it's pretty clear he does a lot of stuff that impacts wins and losses. Also comparing redshirt transfer 22-23 year olds to 19-year-old freshmen is absurd enough on its own.

Anyhow, this seems like a lot of doubling down when you likely just got fooled by Naz Reid having some big game early in the season against a non-conference creampuff. He's always been an unathletic big who shows flashes of skill but not much more than flashes.

I’m not comparing them. Clarke was much better when he went to a team that caters to bigs. Just making a point that certain teams are better at developing bigs.

Reid went to a team that doesn’t develop bigs, they don’t often get bigs. Reid is 19 years old in his first year of college, he’s only going to get better.

Again you're trying to ascertain these traditions to a coach who has been at a school for 2 years. Clarke was older, a much better player to begin with, and had a redshirt year to develop at Gonzaga, so who's to say he developed that much more than Reid did in the 6 months he was at LSU? If Mark Few had had a player like Naz Reid this year, Reid would've redshirted.

[doordoor123]

Clarke was a 1st-round prospect in my eyes while at SJSU; just look at their record before and after he was there and it's pretty clear he does a lot of stuff that impacts wins and losses. Also comparing redshirt transfer 22-23 year olds to 19-year-old freshmen is absurd enough on its own.

Anyhow, this seems like a lot of doubling down when you likely just got fooled by Naz Reid having some big game early in the season against a non-conference creampuff. He's always been an unathletic big who shows flashes of skill but not much more than flashes.

I’m not comparing them. Clarke was much better when he went to a team that caters to bigs. Just making a point that certain teams are better at developing bigs.

Reid went to a team that doesn’t develop bigs, they don’t often get bigs. Reid is 19 years old in his first year of college, he’s only going to get better.

Again you're trying to ascertain these traditions to a coach who has been at a school for 2 years. Clarke was older, a much better player to begin with, and had a redshirt year to develop at Gonzaga, so who's to say he developed that much more than Reid did in the 6 months he was at LSU? If Mark Few had had a player like Naz Reid this year, Reid would've redshirted.

Yet again, I’m not comparing the players...

[nolang1]

I’m not comparing them. Clarke was much better when he went to a team that caters to bigs. Just making a point that certain teams are better at developing bigs.

Reid went to a team that doesn’t develop bigs, they don’t often get bigs. Reid is 19 years old in his first year of college, he’s only going to get better.

Again you're trying to ascertain these traditions to a coach who has been at a school for 2 years. Clarke was older, a much better player to begin with, and had a redshirt year to develop at Gonzaga, so who's to say he developed that much more than Reid did in the 6 months he was at LSU? If Mark Few had had a player like Naz Reid this year, Reid would've redshirted.

Yet again, I’m not comparing the players...

And in my very first post about this I said Reid has ended up right where he should be given where he was ranked in high school. Bol was a much better prospect, and Hayes was as well once people actually watched him. At that point you're comparing him to players who are much more athletic than him and were much better in college.

[Ruzious]

Anyone have an opinion of where Borisa Simanic should go in the draft? It looks like he's got some serious length, and his 3 point shooting stats looks good.

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[doordoor123]

Anyone have an opinion of where Borisa Simanic should go in the draft? It looks like he's got some serious length, and his 3 point shooting stats looks good.

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He can go as high as late lottery, but that might be a little unrealistic in this draft. It’s such a deep PF draft. IMO if you aren’t drafting a SG or PF past the lottery in this draft you’re making a mistake. Those are the positions that will have sleepers.

[pad300]

He can go as high as late lottery, but that might be a little unrealistic in this draft. It’s such a deep PF draft. IMO if you aren’t drafting a SG or PF past the lottery in this draft you’re making a mistake. Those are the positions that will have sleepers.

I agree with you a little on PF's - there are a lot of guys who could come good in the right environment (although most of them could also bust). I also see a lot of C's you could say that about.... So bigs in general, is where I suspect the value is going to be. SG's on the other hand, I see a lot of prospects, but few that I really like.

[No-Man]

Tyler Herro is just really good as a prospect, obv raw in some aspects but in this class to me he is a top10 pick

[clyde21]

Herro should be a lotto in any class

[No-Man]

Herro should be a lotto in any class

yeah I was watching some of his tape from HS and the guy is so much better now, you can tell he works, also his motor is just great

In this class to me he is a top8 guy honestly

[clyde21]

Herro should be a lotto in any class

yeah I was watching some of his tape from HS and the guy is so much better now, you can tell he works, also his motor is just great

In this class to me he is a top8 guy honestly

agreed, but ur also talking to the guy who said he's as good of a prospect as Huerter and I said this months ago, im Huge on him

but I don't know about top 8 quite yet, I think im just higher on this class than most.

[pad300]

I just don't see Herro as a lottery pick. He's a shooter, really hard worker (on court and in practice), really smart... But you can say that about a lot of players. His size disadvantage ( 6'3.25 wingspan, 2.75" less than height in shoes!) & he's not a dominant athlete. I don't see a guy who can so much as break even on D at the NBA level. Seriously, I think a team could run Patty Mills against him in isolation and make points... What does he give you that say Bryn Forbes didn't? Bryn Forbes didn't get drafted...

[clyde21]

I just don't see Herro as a lottery pick. He's a shooter, really hard worker (on court and in practice), really smart... But you can say that about a lot of players. His size disadvantage ( 6'3.25 wingspan, 2.75" less than height in shoes!) & he's not a dominant athlete. I don't see a guy who can so much as break even on D at the NBA level. Seriously, I think a team could run Patty Mills against him in isolation and make points... What does he give you that say Bryn Forbes didn't? Bryn Forbes didn't get drafted...

i love how people just assume Herro isn't a good defender just because he's white with a short wingspan.

[pad300]

I just don't see Herro as a lottery pick. He's a shooter, really hard worker (on court and in practice), really smart... But you can say that about a lot of players. His size disadvantage ( 6'3.25 wingspan, 2.75" less than height in shoes!) & he's not a dominant athlete. I don't see a guy who can so much as break even on D at the NBA level. Seriously, I think a team could run Patty Mills against him in isolation and make points... What does he give you that say Bryn Forbes didn't? Bryn Forbes didn't get drafted...

i love how people just assume Herro isn't a good defender just because he's white with a short wingspan.

You think Herro is a defender who's going to have no trouble stepping up to an NBA standard (bigger, more athletic players, more schemes that target potentially weak defenders), despite physical deficiencies (wingspan) and at best typical athleticism? Can you point to some special performance (an example of NBA level play) in college? I don't see any scouting reports calling him out as a savant defender, always in the right place, for example.

[clyde21]

I just don't see Herro as a lottery pick. He's a shooter, really hard worker (on court and in practice), really smart... But you can say that about a lot of players. His size disadvantage ( 6'3.25 wingspan, 2.75" less than height in shoes!) & he's not a dominant athlete. I don't see a guy who can so much as break even on D at the NBA level. Seriously, I think a team could run Patty Mills against him in isolation and make points... What does he give you that say Bryn Forbes didn't? Bryn Forbes didn't get drafted...

i love how people just assume Herro isn't a good defender just because he's white with a short wingspan.

You think Herro is a defender who's going to have no trouble stepping up to an NBA standard (bigger, more athletic players, more schemes that target potentially weak defenders), despite physical deficiencies (wingspan) and at best typical athleticism? Can you point to some special performance (an example of NBA level play) in college? I don't see any scouting reports calling him out as a savant defender, always in the right place, for example.

i think people see the wingspan and automatically assume he's a bad defender but that's not the case, doesn't mean he's gonna be a shut down defender or anything but I doubt he's going to be a major liability on that end either

and offensively he's much, much more than just a shooter...he's a true nuanced scorer who can also pass and run some offense.

[pad300]

i love how people just assume Herro isn't a good defender just because he's white with a short wingspan.

You think Herro is a defender who's going to have no trouble stepping up to an NBA standard (bigger, more athletic players, more schemes that target potentially weak defenders), despite physical deficiencies (wingspan) and at best typical athleticism? Can you point to some special performance (an example of NBA level play) in college? I don't see any scouting reports calling him out as a savant defender, always in the right place, for example.

i think people see the wingspan and automatically assume he's a bad defender but that's not the case, doesn't mean he's gonna be a shut down defender or anything but I doubt he's going to be a major liability on that end either

and offensively he's much, much more than just a shooter...he's a true nuanced scorer who can also pass and run some offense.

So defensively, you see a guy with physical deficiencies, but who's smart and tries hard, so he won't be a complete liability... Bryn Forbes waves his hand in the air.

Was Bryn a better shooter when drafted? Byrn 112/233, .482% , 14.2 attempts/100 possessions from 3. Herro 60/169, .355, 8.3 attempts/100 possessions from 3. You figure it out. Bryn had an NBA ready skill. 35.5% from the college 3 is not all that good.

Herro "can also pass and run some offense". Bryn has become a PG in the NBA... So he's accomplished what you think Herro can do.

Sure Herro is younger than Bryn when he's being drafted, and has shown a more driving with the ball. It's still a hell of a leap from undrafted to the lottery...

PS. I don't like the fact that Bryn Forbes is on my team (SAS), because despite all the really impressive work he's done to make himself an NBA player, I still think he's a net liability on the court...

[mattg]

I just don't see Herro as a lottery pick. He's a shooter, really hard worker (on court and in practice), really smart... But you can say that about a lot of players. His size disadvantage ( 6'3.25 wingspan, 2.75" less than height in shoes!) & he's not a dominant athlete. I don't see a guy who can so much as break even on D at the NBA level. Seriously, I think a team could run Patty Mills against him in isolation and make points... What does he give you that say Bryn Forbes didn't? Bryn Forbes didn't get drafted...

i love how people just assume Herro isn't a good defender just because he's white with a short wingspan.

You think Herro is a defender who's going to have no trouble stepping up to an NBA standard (bigger, more athletic players, more schemes that target potentially weak defenders), despite physical deficiencies (wingspan) and at best typical athleticism? Can you point to some special performance (an example of NBA level play) in college? I don't see any scouting reports calling him out as a savant defender, always in the right place, for example.

He was UKs most consistently good defender. Check the game they beat Tennessee the first time where he locked up on the perimeter for example. His anticipation is spectacular, he made tons of plays in passing lanes all season despite the wingspan. He’s not gonna be a lockdown defender, but I’d be supremely floored if he isn’t league average defensively by the end of his rookie deal.

Offensively his skill level is ridiculously underrated. There isn’t a single guard/wing in this class as skilled as he is. And his decision making is excellent. The work ethic people will continue to underrate, it’s legitimately on the next level from what people think a hard working player is. You’re talking Kobe Bryant or Giannis type of drive.

[No-Man]

i love how people just assume Herro isn't a good defender just because he's white with a short wingspan.

You think Herro is a defender who's going to have no trouble stepping up to an NBA standard (bigger, more athletic players, more schemes that target potentially weak defenders), despite physical deficiencies (wingspan) and at best typical athleticism? Can you point to some special performance (an example of NBA level play) in college? I don't see any scouting reports calling him out as a savant defender, always in the right place, for example.

He was UKs most consistently good defender. Check the game they beat Tennessee the first time where he locked up on the perimeter for example. His anticipation is spectacular, he made tons of plays in passing lanes all season despite the wingspan. He’s not gonna be a lockdown defender, but I’d be supremely floored if he isn’t league average defensively by the end of his rookie deal.

Offensively his skill level is ridiculously underrated. There isn’t a single guard/wing in this class as skilled as he is. And his decision making is excellent. The work ethic people will continue to underrate, it’s legitimately on the next level from what people think a hard working player is. You’re talking Kobe Bryant or Giannis type of drive.

Would you take him ahead of Morant and Garland?

I think Herro is going to be eventually a CG and you might be able to have him out there as the only Guard without a PG, esp obviously if you have a play-making wing or big