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The Board Man Cometh!! Kawhi Leonard Signs 3 Year (2+1), $103 Million Deal

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Chance to Make Unique NBA History Within Reach 

Post#741 » by Ranma » Sat Jun 8, 2019 4:25 am

While I've acknowledged that Kawhi could stay with Toronto, I still think the Clippers are the likeliest landing spot for him whether the Raptors win the championship or not. I'm so confident that I've been rooting for the Raptors to win the Larry O' Brien trophy even as I realize an increased likelihood of him staying if they do so.

Toronto is only in this position because of him as most of their players have a penchant for disappearing for long stretches. His teammates have only done just enough to beat a depleted Warriors team. I've seen it reported that Kawhi thinks he can win regardless given the great belief he has in himself but he's got to realize that the Raptors aren't the best situation for him given that he's experienced it first-hand.

Also, if and when he wins another championship and accompanying Finals MVP, he'll have the opportunity to do so with a third team in the Clippers since only two other players have won NBA championships with three different teams: Robert Horry and John Salley. Carrying 3 different teams to NBA titles would cement his legacy as one of the greatest players of all-time and it's within realistic reach given how well positioned the Clippers are.

I'm so glad our front office isn't as bipolar or Chicken Little as some of us have been during these playoffs.


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Re: Chance to Make Unique NBA History Within Reach 

Post#742 » by poomaster » Sat Jun 8, 2019 4:32 am

Ranma wrote:While I've acknowledged that Kawhi could stay with Toronto, I still think the Clippers are the likeliest landing spot for him whether the Raptors win the championship or not. I'm so confident that I've been rooting for the Raptors to win the Larry O' Brien trophy even as I realize an increased likelihood of him staying if they do so.

Toronto is only in this position because of him as most of their players have a penchant for disappearing for long stretches. His teammates have only done just enough to beat a depleted Warriors team. I've seen it reported that Kawhi thinks he can win regardless given the great belief he has in himself but he's got to realize that the Raptors aren't the best situation for him given that he's experienced it first-hand.

Also, if and when he wins another championship and accompanying Finals MVP, he'll have the opportunity to do so with a third team in the Clippers since only two other players have won NBA championships with three different teams: Robert Horry and John Salley. Carrying 3 different teams to NBA titles would cement his legacy as one of the greatest players of all-time and it's within realistic reach given how well positioned the Clippers are.

I'm so glad our front office isn't as bipolar or Chicken Little as some of us have been during these playoffs.


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Sorry I am a Raptors fan but I have to say that statement is completely unfair. This entire roster from Siakam to Lowry to Ibaka and FVV has been throwing everything on the line out there to win. They've battled with Kawhi , this hasn't been only Kawhi carrying this team. This team has stepped up around Kawhi to support him and put him in a position to take over games when asked.
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My Point of View 

Post#743 » by Ranma » Sat Jun 8, 2019 4:59 am

poomaster wrote:Sorry I am a Raptors fan but I have to say that statement is completely unfair. This entire roster from Siakam to Lowry to Ibaka and FVV has been throwing everything on the line out there to win. They've battled with Kawhi , this hasn't been only Kawhi carrying this team. This team has stepped up around Kawhi to support him and put him in a position to take over games when asked.


Outside of Kawhi, Siakam is the best player between the two teams. I'm not even going to debate that. I'm a fan of Lowry's and Gasol being added to your team, but with all due respect, I stand by my statement that most of Kawhi's teammates have disappeared, for the most part.

Lowry was 3-12 tonight from the floor and 0-4 from beyond the arc tonight. Luckily, he does enough of the little things to mitigate his offensive shortcomings. Ibaka had a good game tonight but he's been averaging only 8.3 points per game during the postseason and shooting 44.1%, which are both significantly lower than what he's averaged in the regular season. Van Fleet and Green both are also scoring lower than their respective regular season averages with Green being notably so.

I think Nick Nurse has arguably been the best coach in the entire postseason, but outside of defense, the Raptors don't consistently execute the offensive game plans and they don't particularly take care of the ball well. Like I said, his teammates are doing just enough to follow-through in coattailing off of Kawhi's performances to beat a Warriors team that has been short-handed and without arguably the most talented player in the game in Durant.

I'd give the Raptors the advantage over the Clippers in having Nick Nurse, Pascal Siakam, and a much better team defense, but Doc Rivers is considered a good coach, especially removed from PoBO duties. The Clippers are very well positioned in upcoming free agency to add a player better than Siakam by having the ability to open up a 2nd max salary slot, but even if they don't, support players like Harrell, Williams, Gilgeous-Alexander and Shamet should be more than enough to offset Siakam and the rest of the Raptors. Harrell and Williams are 2 of the 3 finalists for the 2019 NBA Sixth Man of the Year award. Gilgeous-Alexander and Shamet are on the 2019 NBA All-Rookie Second Team with Shamet already among the NBA's top 3-point shooters and Gilgeous-Alexander arguably deserving of First Team honors as well as being considered one of the best prospects ever to come out of Canada.
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Future Fashion 

Post#744 » by Ranma » Sat Jun 8, 2019 5:58 am

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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#745 » by mkwest » Sat Jun 8, 2019 6:22 am

Doc found another way to tamper...

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Humility Over Highlight Reels 

Post#746 » by Wammy Giveaway » Sat Jun 8, 2019 6:52 am

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And this is why the Clippers want him so badly. With Leonard, they can learn from him how to focus on winning the championship, not letting emotions get in the way of competition, or getting caught up in fame. The Clipper's desire to be loved, respected and worshiped like the Lakers made them too desperate when they were in the cellar and too arrogant when they became successful, especially in the Lob City era. Look at how the Raptors celebrated their wins after defeating the Warriors tonight, two days ago, and in Game 1: they didn't. Celebration is distraction's bedfellow, and once you get caught up in the winning over your opponent of just one game, that's when your enemies can retaliate with a vengeance. Then you look at the Clipper's past under Donald Sterling and how they've always been in the news for the wrong reasons such as banning Clipper Darrell, or the infamous racist tapes, the same tapes which damaged their morale enough to allow the Warriors to tie the series back up at two a piece. With Leonard, the Clippers can learn how to block these distractions and rely solely from within themselves in a city that loathes them.

And if Leonard chooses to stay in Toronto, the Clippers will already have their own Kawhi in a young Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, who has already proven his worth through his maturity and calmness. Gilgeous could become as much of a leader as Leonard currently is. And if you have both, there's your reason why I've been calling the Clippers the new Spurs with this role player team.
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Re: Future Fashion 

Post#747 » by CptCanada » Sun Jun 9, 2019 12:14 am

Ranma wrote:
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Hello there friend. I'm just asking if you know out of curiosity. Has a star player ever left a team after winning a championship? I'm honestly curious if that has ever happened.
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Following in MJ's Footsteps 

Post#748 » by Ranma » Sun Jun 9, 2019 1:18 am

CptCanada wrote:Hello there friend. I'm just asking if you know out of curiosity. Has a star player ever left a team after winning a championship? I'm honestly curious if that has ever happened.


I'm not well versed enough on NBA history to give you an all-inclusive list, but Kyrie Irving demanded to be traded a season removed from winning the 2016 championship in Cleveland and hometown boy LeBron left a year after that. I'm sure there have been plenty of notable players who've left championship clubs the year after such as when Dennis Rodman did so with the Bulls after 1998, but I suspect he wouldn't qualify for what you had in mind.

However, Michael Jordan left the Bulls twice in 1993 and 1998 immediately after winning titles and you know how much Kawhi wants to emulate his Airness. Likewise, MJ's longtime cohort Scottie Pippen joined the Rockets in 1998. In any case, if it hasn't already been evident to others by now, Kawhi is his own person and marches to his own beat and different tune.

If he stays with the Raptors, it's likely because he believes in Nick Nurse and thinks the team's defense is enough to win more rings in the future. Defense does win championships, after all. I'm sure he also appreciates Masai Ujiri's faith in him but Ujiri is anticipated to be heavily pursued by the Wizards who previously lured Air Jordan to join them in the past. Let's also not forget that getting rid of DeMar DeRozan wasn't exactly much of a sacrifice given the Raptors were not inclined to give him a max extension. In fact, the Spurs are rumored to already be shopping DeRozan.

As I've previously pointed out, Kawhi can follow in his idol's footsteps by leaving the Raptors to make history with another team better equipped to bring him titles while playing closer to home. I can't be mad at him whether he chooses to stay a Raptor or become a Clipper. I'd be dumbfounded and upset if he chooses to leave and become a Knick, Laker or whomever else, though.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#749 » by mkwest » Sun Jun 9, 2019 1:25 am

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Re: Following in MJ's Footsteps 

Post#750 » by CptCanada » Sun Jun 9, 2019 1:37 am

Ranma wrote:
CptCanada wrote:Hello there friend. I'm just asking if you know out of curiosity. Has a star player ever left a team after winning a championship? I'm honestly curious if that has ever happened.


I'm not well versed enough on NBA history to give you an all-inclusive list, but Kyrie Irving demanded to be traded a season removed from winning the 2016 championship in Cleveland and hometown boy LeBron left a year after that. I'm sure there have been plenty of notable players who've left championship clubs the year after such as when Dennis Rodman did so with the Bulls after 1998, but I suspect he wouldn't qualify for what you had in mind.

However, Michael Jordan left the Bulls twice in 1993 and 1998 immediately after winning titles and you know how much Kawhi wants to emulate his Airness. Likewise, MJ's longtime cohort Scottie Pippen joined the Rockets in 1998. In any case, if it hasn't already been evident to others by now, Kawhi is his own person and marches to his own beat and different tune.

If he stays with the Raptors, it's likely because he believes in Nick Nurse and thinks the team's defense is enough to win more rings in the future. Defense does win championships, after all. I'm sure he also appreciates Masai Ujiri's faith in him but Ujiri is anticipated to be heavily pursued by the Wizards who previously lured Air Jordan to join them in the past. Let's also not forget that getting rid of DeMar DeRozan wasn't exactly much of a sacrifice given the Raptors were not inclined to give him a max extension. In fact, the Spurs are rumored to already be shopping DeRozan.

As I've previously pointed out, Kawhi can follow in his idol's footsteps by leaving the Raptors to make history with another team better equipped to bring him titles while playing closer to home. I can't be mad at him whether he chooses to stay a Raptor or become a Clipper. I'd be dumbfounded and upset if he chooses to leave and become a Knick, Laker or whomever else, though.



Right on. Honestly, I follow the league closely and would be utterly shocked if he left Toronto. You guys have gone through a lot and I wish your franchise the best of luck with other FAs. I'm not a fan of the Lakers, but I'd like to see the Clippers do well.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#751 » by Red_Claw » Sun Jun 9, 2019 1:46 am

"Kawhi Leonard Rumors: Clippers Preparing for Star to Remain with Raptors"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2840087-kawhi-leonard-rumors-clippers-preparing-for-star-to-remain-with-raptors

I personally wont believe Kawhi resigns till he signs on the dotted line and i give the clippers respect for putting together a nice complimentary team to pitch to Kawhi but the truth of the matter is: Masai Ujiri beat you too it.
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What Else is New? 

Post#752 » by Ranma » Sun Jun 9, 2019 2:06 am

Red_Claw wrote:"Kawhi Leonard Rumors: Clippers Preparing for Star to Remain with Raptors"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2840087-kawhi-leonard-rumors-clippers-preparing-for-star-to-remain-with-raptors

I personally wont believe Kawhi resigns till he signs on the dotted line and i give the clippers respect for putting together a nice complimentary team to pitch to Kawhi but the truth of the matter is: Masai Ujiri beat you too it.


I appreciate the heads up but I was unfamiliar with Vardon until this season and he primarily covers the Cavaliers and Browns (of the NFL), I believe. Plus, if you know anything about our front office, it's that it already has contingency plans, so it's not like the Clippers all of sudden drew up designs to pursue someone else when Kevin Durant was previously reported to be on our radar as well albeit in a secondary manner.

I'm sure the Clippers are still going to make Kawhi the primary target of our free-agency plans and if they feel there is an increased likelihood that he'll stay, that should be obvious given the circumstances. Whether or not there is cause to panic is another story, in my opinion.

The only concern is whether we'll overpay for secondary stars if we strike out on worthy premier free agents, but recent comments from the front office indicate otherwise. Now paying max dollars for a secondary star after acquiring a max-worthy free agent with no other alternatives provides a more vexing quandary.

In any case, I do agree with you that Masai Ujiri did beat us to the punch given that the Spurs rebuffed our attempts to acquire him calling our assets trash. but it's funny to think how such so-called "trash" as Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (or rather the draft pick used to acquire him) is already considered a cornerstone player while San Antonio is purportedly trying to deal away DeMar DeRozan a year after acquiring him.
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If not KL or KD, who? Anyone? 

Post#753 » by esqtvd » Sun Jun 9, 2019 4:24 am

Ranma wrote:
Red_Claw wrote:"Kawhi Leonard Rumors: Clippers Preparing for Star to Remain with Raptors"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2840087-kawhi-leonard-rumors-clippers-preparing-for-star-to-remain-with-raptors

I personally wont believe Kawhi resigns till he signs on the dotted line and i give the clippers respect for putting together a nice complimentary team to pitch to Kawhi but the truth of the matter is: Masai Ujiri beat you too it.


I appreciate the heads up but I was unfamiliar with Vardon until this season and he primarily covers the Cavaliers and Browns (of the NFL), I believe. Plus, if you know anything about our front office, it's that it already has contingency plans, so it's not like the Clippers all of sudden drew up designs to pursue someone else when Kevin Durant was previously reported to be on our radar as well albeit in a secondary manner.

I'm sure the Clippers are still going to make Kawhi the primary target of our free-agency plans and if they feel there is an increased likelihood that he'll stay, that should be obvious given the circumstances. Whether or not there is cause to panic is another story, in my opinion.

The only concern is whether we'll overpay for secondary stars if we strike out on worthy premier free agents, but recent comments from the front office indicate otherwise. Now paying max dollars for a secondary star after acquiring a max-worthy free agent with no other alternatives provides a more vexing quandary.

In any case, I do agree with you that Masai Ujiri did beat us to the punch given that the Spurs rebuffed our attempts to acquire him calling our assets trash. but it's funny to think how such so-called "trash" as Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (or rather the draft pick used to acquire him) is already considered a cornerstone player while San Antonio is purportedly trying to deal away DeMar DeRozan a year after acquiring him.[/color]



Ramna is mostly right here, although the difference between a #12 pick in the abstract and the high-end prospect Shai has turned out to be is huge. It also cost us two 2nd-rounders to trade up to #11 to get him, and the actual #12 pick, Miles Bridges, didn't even make any of the 3 all-Rookie teams.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2837421-hornets-miles-bridges-on-nba-all-rookie-snub-i-played-like-ass-all-year

The draft illusion once again. In the mid-teens, sometimes it's a Kawhi, but most times it's a Miles Bridges. And 2019 looks even thinner. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


That the Clippers made Kawhi their primary FA target just speaks to how they have their s#1+ together, although at only 26 with a Finals MVP already on his mantel, it wasn't entirely genius. It would have been moronic not to have him at #1.


I must say the improbable unfolding of these Finals makes me change my guess about Kawhi bailing--If the Raptors win, Kawhi sort of owes it to his teammates to come back and defend their title. This is beyond what he owes to Toronto the city and Toronto the org [which is nothing]. I don't know how max contracts work, but if I'm Kawhi now, the way my mates have followed my leadership and never questioned my days off or my sphinxlike weirdness, I sign the 5-year deal with an opt-out in a year or two, with the expectation that we won't repeat, and I can still go spend the rest of my career at home in Southern California come 2022.

And re KD, if the Dubs lose because of my absence, I'm vindicated. They need me, and now the whole world knows it. I can stay here now and go for another ring with no Stephen A Smith up my butt. There's really no reason to leave now.


I think Ramna's right here too about what the Clippers do if KL and KD are off the board. Holding the cap space open for godknowswho for another year is unseemly and so is overpaying a nice but complementary talent like Middleton or even an almost-great like Kemba.

Come to think of it, Kemba is a REALLY nice player. 25 ppg, 6 apg and 4 rpg, even when you double-team him and let the rest try to beat you. The leader Tobias just isn't. Kemba's a #1. Not a championship #1, but a real #1 that Tobias just wasn't.

OTOH, Kemba is the best player on a crap team, and couldn't even get them to the playoffs in the weak East. I'm always afraid of the best player on a bad team. But Kemba's got my serious respect. He's only just 29, has got better every year as a pro, and we could do worse. Keeping Gallo and resigning Pat Bev and most of last year's crew, and 50 wins looks quite doable.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#754 » by Son Goku 25 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 4:33 am

Damn first time on this board, didn't realize another fan base would be this obsessed with our superstar.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#755 » by StringerBell » Sun Jun 9, 2019 5:44 am

Quake Griffin wrote:We had 6*** years with CP3 at the helm.
Acquiring him at age 26 gave us 6*** prime years of CP3. If we were to resign him in 2017, we would have had 2 more years of pretty good guard on our roster.

Not a bad investment in your time. Doesn't behold you to a **** time table unless you're an awful POBO and...well...you know we had one of the worst.

Much diff timetable from a guy whose body is apparently continuously hurt, at age 28, signing a 4 year deal.
Oh and btw....making our entire season about signing him.
___________________________________________________
Jordan - Drafted by team.
Olajuwon - Drafted by team.
Kobe - Traded for on draft night, so functionally, drafted by team....and didn't the Lakers tell the Hornets to draft him? Yeah, so just drafted by the team.
Duncan - Drafted by team.
LeBron - Signed to play with his friends. Signed to win for Cleveland
Steph - Drafted by team.

Add Dirk - drafted by team.
Isaiah - drafted by team.

So...yeah.
Last 30 years have been pretty clear for the most part. Find your superstar in the draft. Draft a team around him. Supplement the team through FA/ other trades.

Haven't seen much, "complain about the draft being a crap shoot/ impossible to find a star...build a little engine that could team...whore yourself out for FA...find that FA....win all of the rings"...

but let me know if any of that is unclear to you.


If you're gonna look to the draft to find another first ballot hall of famer, look forward to another 50 years without a finals appearance.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#756 » by esqtvd » Sun Jun 9, 2019 7:07 am

StringerBell wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:We had 6*** years with CP3 at the helm.
Acquiring him at age 26 gave us 6*** prime years of CP3. If we were to resign him in 2017, we would have had 2 more years of pretty good guard on our roster.

Not a bad investment in your time. Doesn't behold you to a **** time table unless you're an awful POBO and...well...you know we had one of the worst.

Much diff timetable from a guy whose body is apparently continuously hurt, at age 28, signing a 4 year deal.
Oh and btw....making our entire season about signing him.
___________________________________________________
Jordan - Drafted by team.
Olajuwon - Drafted by team.
Kobe - Traded for on draft night, so functionally, drafted by team....and didn't the Lakers tell the Hornets to draft him? Yeah, so just drafted by the team.
Duncan - Drafted by team.
LeBron - Signed to play with his friends. Signed to win for Cleveland
Steph - Drafted by team.

Add Dirk - drafted by team.
Isaiah - drafted by team.

So...yeah.
Last 30 years have been pretty clear for the most part. Find your superstar in the draft. Draft a team around him. Supplement the team through FA/ other trades.

Haven't seen much, "complain about the draft being a crap shoot/ impossible to find a star...build a little engine that could team...whore yourself out for FA...find that FA....win all of the rings"...

but let me know if any of that is unclear to you.




If you're gonna look to the draft to find another first ballot hall of famer, look forward to another 50 years without a finals appearance.


Dude. :rofl2:
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#757 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Jun 9, 2019 11:39 am

StringerBell wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:We had 6*** years with CP3 at the helm.
Acquiring him at age 26 gave us 6*** prime years of CP3. If we were to resign him in 2017, we would have had 2 more years of pretty good guard on our roster.

Not a bad investment in your time. Doesn't behold you to a **** time table unless you're an awful POBO and...well...you know we had one of the worst.

Much diff timetable from a guy whose body is apparently continuously hurt, at age 28, signing a 4 year deal.
Oh and btw....making our entire season about signing him.
___________________________________________________
Jordan - Drafted by team.
Olajuwon - Drafted by team.
Kobe - Traded for on draft night, so functionally, drafted by team....and didn't the Lakers tell the Hornets to draft him? Yeah, so just drafted by the team.
Duncan - Drafted by team.
LeBron - Signed to play with his friends. Signed to win for Cleveland
Steph - Drafted by team.

Add Dirk - drafted by team.
Isaiah - drafted by team.

So...yeah.
Last 30 years have been pretty clear for the most part. Find your superstar in the draft. Draft a team around him. Supplement the team through FA/ other trades.

Haven't seen much, "complain about the draft being a crap shoot/ impossible to find a star...build a little engine that could team...whore yourself out for FA...find that FA....win all of the rings"...

but let me know if any of that is unclear to you.


If you're gonna look to the draft to find another first ballot hall of famer, look forward to another 50 years without a finals appearance.

If we’re gonna look to sign 7-8 year superstar vets as a plan, we could be doing the same. I just won’t have any village idiots putting laugh emojis behind that.

Sign Giannis is not a plan.
Sign AD is not a plan.
Sign Luka Doncic in 2027 is not a plan.
Free cap space for two superstars and 2 superstars = contender is not a plan.

But I’d love to hear a direct, non sarcastic, answer on what you think the best way to find a superstar is.

Should be fun.
“I’ve always felt that drafting is the life blood of any organization.” - Jerome Alan West.
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Johnnys Come Lately 

Post#758 » by Ranma » Sun Jun 9, 2019 1:11 pm

Son Goku 25 wrote:Damn first time on this board, didn't realize another fan base would be this obsessed with our superstar.


You act as though Kawhi was a homegrown player for Toronto when they traded for him as a possible rental. Plus, since it is your first time on this board, I guess you can be forgiven for not being aware that Jerry West, the current advisor to the Clippers, has called him his favorite player in the NBA long before he ever donned a Raptors uniform. Likewise, he was on our radar before you guys ever thought of him as "your" superstar.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#759 » by Galloisdaman » Sun Jun 9, 2019 1:25 pm

Saw a interesting proposal online. If KL decides he wants to be a Clipper and Clippers would like to keep cap room.

KL in a sign and trade for Gallo, Trez, and Jerome.
My eyes glaze over when reading alternative stat (not advanced stat) narratives that go many paragraphs long. If you can not make your point in 2 paragraphs it may not be a great point. :D
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Nope 

Post#760 » by Ranma » Sun Jun 9, 2019 1:26 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:Saw a interesting proposal online. If KL decides he wants to be a Clipper and Clippers would like to keep cap room.

KL in a sign and trade for Gallo, Trez, and Jerome.


That makes no sense. We could sign him outright and only have to give up a first-round pick, if needed, in order to dump Gallo to sign a 2nd max player. Trez and Rome are worth more than a future first-round pick to the Clips. Plus, I'd even argue that we should be able to get rid of Gallo without giving up a first-rounder depending on the urgency of the situation.
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