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Tatum and Brown

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#81 » by cloverleaf » Fri Jun 7, 2019 5:07 pm

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
3D Chess wrote:
VeryMuchWoke wrote:Scal just said on Sirius XM that Tatum is working out with Melo this offseason and the C's are "up in arms" about it. **** it, ship him out.

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I think people forget how good Carmelo Anthony was at scoring the basketball. I can only dream Tatum ever becomes half the scorer Denver Carmelo was. New York ruined that guy..


What matters isn't how much an individual scores but whether the teams he is on score more than their opponents--and how he affects that. https://nypost.com/2019/03/27/carmelo-anthony-is-now-used-as-an-nba-insult/
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#82 » by druggas » Fri Jun 7, 2019 5:17 pm

If Rondo was the point guard, you wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#83 » by Shak_Celts » Fri Jun 7, 2019 9:14 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:Also, great wing players tend to be all-World on defense early in their careers, before hitting their offensive peaks. These guys are good, but they don't look like lockdown defenders.

Exception: Paul Pierce, who locked people down only in crunch time, and probably peaked in that around the same time he peaked offensively.



JB has shutdown KD pretty much every time he has faced him. He is a very good defender when he sets out to be. He has had some runs of shutting down very good offenders in a row at times. He's young, but he has to become more consistent.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#84 » by cloverleaf » Sat Jun 8, 2019 12:29 am

JB can play great D when he's jazzed to slow down some very good player with his man D.

But his consistency and his team D are both still pretty bad.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#85 » by OFWGKTA » Sat Jun 8, 2019 12:56 am

Shak_Celts wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:Also, great wing players tend to be all-World on defense early in their careers, before hitting their offensive peaks. These guys are good, but they don't look like lockdown defenders.

Exception: Paul Pierce, who locked people down only in crunch time, and probably peaked in that around the same time he peaked offensively.



JB has shutdown KD pretty much every time he has faced him. He is a very good defender when he sets out to be. He has had some runs of shutting down very good offenders in a row at times. He's young, but he has to become more consistent.



His team defense needs to improve, but man to man he's great.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#86 » by Shak_Celts » Sat Jun 8, 2019 2:56 am

OFWGKTA wrote:
Shak_Celts wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:Also, great wing players tend to be all-World on defense early in their careers, before hitting their offensive peaks. These guys are good, but they don't look like lockdown defenders.

Exception: Paul Pierce, who locked people down only in crunch time, and probably peaked in that around the same time he peaked offensively.



JB has shutdown KD pretty much every time he has faced him. He is a very good defender when he sets out to be. He has had some runs of shutting down very good offenders in a row at times. He's young, but he has to become more consistent.



His team defense needs to improve, but man to man he's great.


THIS I agree with!
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#87 » by BfB » Sat Jun 8, 2019 3:23 am

sully00 wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:A lot of it centers around their very poor passing ability. You very seldom see players who have such poor court vision and passing ability make it into any kind of top-25 list unless they are unbelievable talents otherwise. The only guys who you can put in the top-25 who don't pass/create for others are guys like Rudy Gobert. Tatum improved here this season to some extent, but I don't ever see him being an above-average passer, and when you see Brown make even a routine pass it is worthy of note, which isn't a great sign.


I don't agree with this. Brown doesn't turn the ball over and he doesn't dominate the ball he is a finisher nobody cared that James Worthy avg around 2 apg most of his career because his job was to finish. When he got older he became a better passer. Kevin McHale and Karl Malone were total black holes. Klay Thompson isn't a playmaker but everyone wants him on their team. If you dominate the ball and don't pass that is a problem but if you catch and shoot and attack the rim and minimize the BS other guys can create shots for others.

I think Tatum was trying to come into his own as a go to offensive option and learned a lot of what doesn't work. I don't think he is a bad passer as much as his judgement around when and where to isolate got a little weird but the whole team sort of broke down the more the ball didn't touch Al's hands.


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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#88 » by JR Hawks » Sat Jun 8, 2019 3:44 am

Think Danny's regretting not trading Jaylen and Smart for Kawhi?
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#89 » by Green89 » Sat Jun 8, 2019 4:04 am

JR Hawks wrote:Think Danny's regretting not trading Jaylen and Smart for Kawhi?


Meh, Stevens probably would have let Terry take most of Kawhi's shots he got this year on the Raps.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#90 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Jun 8, 2019 4:09 am

Green89 wrote:
JR Hawks wrote:Think Danny's regretting not trading Jaylen and Smart for Kawhi?


Meh, Stevens probably would have let Terry take most of Kawhi's shots he got this year on the Raps.

We didn't even need to trade for Kawhi. All Danny had to do last offseason to give us a better chance was move the blackholes Rozier and Morris for better role players. Too many guys wanted their shots. Those two had their next contract in mind.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#91 » by CelticsLV » Sat Jun 8, 2019 7:10 am

JR Hawks wrote:Think Danny's regretting not trading Jaylen and Smart for Kawhi?

Celtics don't need top 5 players when every player they draft is a future stud. Didn't you hear that we already have Davis 2.0 on the team in Williams? I bet this year Ainge will draft future Durant, Duncan and Kawhi 3.0 on top of our Kawhi 2.0
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#92 » by djFan71 » Sat Jun 8, 2019 7:50 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:
Green89 wrote:
JR Hawks wrote:Think Danny's regretting not trading Jaylen and Smart for Kawhi?


Meh, Stevens probably would have let Terry take most of Kawhi's shots he got this year on the Raps.

We didn't even need to trade for Kawhi. All Danny had to do last offseason to give us a better chance was move the blackholes Rozier and Morris for better role players. Too many guys wanted their shots. Those two had their next contract in mind.

Kyrie and Gordon were both coming off summer surgeries. That’s why you keep Terry and Morris. It didn’t work out that they were needed, but by the time you really were sure, their value was shot. I threw out a ton of Morris trades at the deadline and wish we’d at least gotten more salary for AD. But I do think keeping them both going into the season is defensible.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#93 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Jun 8, 2019 10:53 am

djFan71 wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:
Green89 wrote:
Meh, Stevens probably would have let Terry take most of Kawhi's shots he got this year on the Raps.

We didn't even need to trade for Kawhi. All Danny had to do last offseason to give us a better chance was move the blackholes Rozier and Morris for better role players. Too many guys wanted their shots. Those two had their next contract in mind.

Kyrie and Gordon were both coming off summer surgeries. That’s why you keep Terry and Morris. It didn’t work out that they were needed, but by the time you really were sure, their value was shot. I threw out a ton of Morris trades at the deadline and wish we’d at least gotten more salary for AD. But I do think keeping them both going into the season is defensible.

Okay, didn't need to be offseason but that's when Rozier's value was at its peak. All downhill from there for him. By December, we already saw Kyrie was doing fine and Smart was at his best. Mook was doing great and helping us win, so I would hesitate moving him too. But Rozier was struggling in his role and wasn't much of a help. Even Wanamaker could contribute in a pinch or whoever we get back. It was not like we were trading them for nothing.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#94 » by Edug27 » Sat Jun 8, 2019 11:01 am

JR Hawks wrote:Think Danny's regretting not trading Jaylen and Smart for Kawhi?


If that reporting is true, then yes. Can’t see how he doesn’t.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#95 » by cloverleaf » Sat Jun 8, 2019 11:38 am

VeryMuchWoke wrote:Scal just said on Sirius XM that Tatum is working out with Melo this offseason and the C's are "up in arms" about it. **** it, ship him out.


Tatum and Irving comprise half of Jayson's agent's entire roster--with Kyrie of course representing the lion's share of his revenue:

http://247sportsmanagement.com/clients/
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#96 » by Zeroforwinger » Sat Jun 8, 2019 1:57 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
3D Chess wrote:Image


I think people forget how good Carmelo Anthony was at scoring the basketball. I can only dream Tatum ever becomes half the scorer Denver Carmelo was. New York ruined that guy..


What matters isn't how much an individual scores but whether the teams he is on score more than their opponents--and how he affects that. https://nypost.com/2019/03/27/carmelo-anthony-is-now-used-as-an-nba-insult/


If he’s working out with Melo to beef up his post game that’s great. If he keeps taking long 2s, Melo can pound sand.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#97 » by Zeroforwinger » Sat Jun 8, 2019 1:58 pm

Edug27 wrote:
JR Hawks wrote:Think Danny's regretting not trading Jaylen and Smart for Kawhi?


If that reporting is true, then yes. Can’t see how he doesn’t.


Only if Kawhi would resign here.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#98 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Jun 8, 2019 2:02 pm

From a year ago: https://tv5.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23847072/zach-lowe-kawhi-leonard-jaylen-brown-celtics-spurs-trades

It might sound ridiculous, but Boston will be wary including Brown, even if they get to speak with Leonard about re-signing. The Celtics are set up to contend for at least 10 years. The Irving/Hayward/Horford trio should carry them now. Brown and Tatum take over later.

Flipping Brown for Leonard tilts Boston more toward the present, and chips away at what looks like a bright future stretching well beyond 2025. To maintain that present-future balance, it makes more sense to use Hayward or Irving as the centerpiece of any Leonard trade. Boston does not appear inclined to go that route -- at least not now.

The underlined part did not age well.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#99 » by djFan71 » Sat Jun 8, 2019 6:11 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:We didn't even need to trade for Kawhi. All Danny had to do last offseason to give us a better chance was move the blackholes Rozier and Morris for better role players. Too many guys wanted their shots. Those two had their next contract in mind.

Kyrie and Gordon were both coming off summer surgeries. That’s why you keep Terry and Morris. It didn’t work out that they were needed, but by the time you really were sure, their value was shot. I threw out a ton of Morris trades at the deadline and wish we’d at least gotten more salary for AD. But I do think keeping them both going into the season is defensible.

Okay, didn't need to be offseason but that's when Rozier's value was at its peak. All downhill from there for him. By December, we already saw Kyrie was doing fine and Smart was at his best. Mook was doing great and helping us win, so I would hesitate moving him too. But Rozier was struggling in his role and wasn't much of a help. Even Wanamaker could contribute in a pinch or whoever we get back. It was not like we were trading them for nothing.

Oh I agree, by Dec-Feb I threw out a million Rozier ideas as well. I think his market must've been soft enough that Danny decided to just hope he got better and to still have him in his pocket in case something crazy happened and Kyrie backed away from his desire to resign or something else out of left field....

I really wanted some package with Rozier/yab for DJ Augustin. He would have been great as a backup and as salary for AD. And then Mook package for Ed Davis. Picks, filler, etc was there at the time but I don't remember the exact details.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#100 » by Larryxd » Sat Jun 8, 2019 9:31 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:From a year ago: https://tv5.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23847072/zach-lowe-kawhi-leonard-jaylen-brown-celtics-spurs-trades

It might sound ridiculous, but Boston will be wary including Brown, even if they get to speak with Leonard about re-signing. The Celtics are set up to contend for at least 10 years. The Irving/Hayward/Horford trio should carry them now. Brown and Tatum take over later.

Flipping Brown for Leonard tilts Boston more toward the present, and chips away at what looks like a bright future stretching well beyond 2025. To maintain that present-future balance, it makes more sense to use Hayward or Irving as the centerpiece of any Leonard trade. Boston does not appear inclined to go that route -- at least not now.

The underlined part did not age well.
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Lol reading the doom and gloom posters here saying how terrible our future is if Kyrie leaves is pretty pathetic. A year ago, Tatum was seen as a consensus top-5 prospect in the NBA and Brown was unquestionably top-15. I was as hard as anyone on both of them this past season, but some of the takes I've seen on here regarding their supposed lowered ceiling is insane. I'm very much looking forward to them improving leaps and bounds next season without Kyrie and for the fanbase to once again completely flip-flop their opinions.

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