Kawhi vs LeBron

[LKN]

Okay honestly, put current old LeBron on this Raps team and they're just as good. Maybe not much better, but this is a team game, and this is a great Raptors team, anyone is gonna look good as the superstar.

Kawhi has been nothing short of (the most visually unspectacular version of) spectacular, but he's got a long way to go to put together the kind of resume LeBron boasts. Like you can make arguments for top 5 a million different ways, but anyone who doesn't have Bron somewhere in there is just mental. Kawhi? Give him some years to see if he can crack top 10.

I'm not convinced of that... this Raptors team needs Kawhi's excellent shooting (biggest difference) and ISO scoring more than Lebron's playmaking.

[minami]

Kawhi isn’t an attention whore that dominates the ball to pad his stats. Kawhi doesn’t try to get his coach fired. Kawhi doesn’t try to trade the entire team for AD. Kawhi doesn’t make faces and point fingers when his teammates make mistakes.

There is a reason why no matter how stacked Lebron’s teams are, his teammates often underperform on the big stage. Lebron sucks up all the oxygen in the room. He is BIGGER than the team. Kawhi just plays to win.

Look at how you Bron stans treat Bosh and Love. Everything is always someone else's fault. How is anyone supposed to develop their game and find a role on the team when Lebron does EVERYTHING.

Basketball is a TEAM SPORT. Lebron is a dictator who never sacrifices anything. Lebron turned 5x All-Star Chris Bosh and 2x All NBA Kevin Love into spot up role players.

Bosh was more than a spot up role player. Idk why this narrative even started. For the record, Coach Spo was the one who moved LeBron and Bosh to the 4 and 5 spot. LeBron didn't "turn" Bosh to be some spot-up shooter... which again Bosh wasn't.

Look at how Duncan sacrificed his game to allow Manu and Tony to develop. He didn’t dominate the ball.

Duncan didn´t 'sacrifice' anything, he just didn´t mess things up with two highly talented individuals who contributed to the building of a dynasty. Manu and Tony would have been great anywhere rings or not, Duncan or not.

Those two are actually key when talking about Tim´s legacy. It goes both ways.

[LKN]

This thread has so many dumb takes I don’t even know where to start. Like I said earlier in the playoffs when everyone was mistakenly calling Harden a choker despite how they well he performed individually, or when they were saying that the Warriors were better without Durant, very very few people on this site have any ability to keep things in perspective. It actually amazes me how frequently most posters as of late are employing lazy narratives and ignoring context, stats, etc. I definitely think the age range of posters here is getting younger because it seems like most of the good posters have flocked to the PC board and the General Board is starting to get filled with Inside Hoops castoffs.

Kawhi has been amazing but no, he hasn’t been playing at a top 5 all-time peak level. If you’ve been watching this series and you can’t tell what an amazing all-around team Toronto is, your basketball analysis skills are flawed. It’s especially confusing to watch all these Raptors fans suddenly trashing all the other players on their team in an attempt to prop Kawhi up, as if Lowry, Siakam, Ibaka, Gasol, and the rest haven’t been HUGE contributors.

I think Golden State fans have been the most level headed fanbase on this site lately. They’ve been to the Finals and done this dance enough times to not get caught up in the moment and maintain some objectivity.

Yeah dude the General Board is a **** show now. PC board is where it's at but even that's getting flooded with kids because of threads being moved from the GB. It's a sad day when notoriously bad GB posters seem moderate.

The PC board has always been significantly better and possessed a different culture, but it's pretty noticeable to me how much worse the GB has gotten in the last year or so. So reactionary, so hostile, so whiny, so lacking in objectivity, and always painting everything as black or white with no middle ground. It's getting harder to bear.

Gotta be honest.... the PC board has gotten kind of bad also. There's a thread on there that is 6-7 pages trying to make the case that Kawhi is as good of a scorer as prime MJ

[Hobo4President]

Yeah dude the General Board is a **** show now. PC board is where it's at but even that's getting flooded with kids because of threads being moved from the GB. It's a sad day when notoriously bad GB posters seem moderate.

The PC board has always been significantly better and possessed a different culture, but it's pretty noticeable to me how much worse the GB has gotten in the last year or so. So reactionary, so hostile, so whiny, so lacking in objectivity, and always painting everything as black or white with no middle ground. It's getting harder to bear.

Gotta be honest.... the PC board has gotten kind of bad also. There's a thread on there that is 6-7 pages trying to make the case that Kawhi is as good of a scorer as prime MJ

Lmao. It seriously feels like Realgm is slowly turning into the youtube/facebook basketball comment sections.

[LKN]

I disagree with this. They just use the talent better. Their offense is nearer GSW offense, which means better ball movement. Better ball movement creates more wide open shots and easier basket's. Problem with ball moving offense is that everyone have to sacrifice in the offense. Lebron's teams were iso team's. Miami teams players were hand picked to fit very well in that idea. Cavs team's players not as much, specially the last year. But it doesn't mean players had less talent. Last years Cavs in the beginning of the year had more MVP's than any other team in NBA, so they had talent, but no will or skill to use it.

It's almost as if defense is also part of the equation...

Not buying that... the east was absolute trash last year. Raptors/Bucks/Sixers would all destroy every 2018 east team.

Heck - it's pretty obvious at this point that Kawhi will have gone through the top 3 teams in the playoffs on his way to a title if they close it out.

GS, Philly, Bucks are all true championship level contenders

LeBron ran an overall better gauntlet of defenses than what Kawhi faced this season. Boston was neck and neck with Utah for #1, Raptors was top 5, and Indiana was playing like one of the best defensive teams in the league heading into those playoffs under Nate McMillan.

The Magic were ok, and Embiid was injured in the playoffs. Bucks were still the Bucks however. Overall, LeBron faced tougher Defensive matchups in 2018 with a worse supporting cast and put up better numbers.

I’m not buying that Pacers/Boston were any better than Bucks/76ers defensively, especially when you consider length at the individual matchups this years team have

Honestly that's absurd... the Bucks/Raptors (and maybe even sixers) this year are two of the best defensive teams I've seen in quite awhile (and all of them had actual scary offenses too... which indirectly helps defense)

I mean, the top teams of the east this year would absolutely destroy every team in the east from last year.

[LKN]

Higher win shares because kawhi is carrying bigger loads and playing more games while doing it. Leonard's win shares are higher because he was carrying a bigger load than jordan ever did and had to play more games as well. Its also maybe because kawhi doesn't have any player who can even hold scottie pippens jockstrap in terms of overall impact.

Kawhi gets marc gasol lookin like sabonis after 10 surgeries on the rebounds, while jordan gets the greatest rebounder to ever play in nba history I see how that's fair. Kawhi will still have game winning offensive rebounds games 4 2nd round and games 5/6 ECF. I'm not going to ignore the facts just because you were a kid hugging your teddy bear when Jordan was playing and it gives you nostalgia, kawhi is comparable whether you like it or not.

You should look up what % of their team's points each guy had to score

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_season_p.html

Jordan in 1992 was the only year he scored more total points. Jordan was always playing lesser games because he had the privilege of playing with the second best wing player of the 90s. Kawhi doesn't have anything close to that type of presence on his team as Lowry was a choker before Kawhi. People are still thinking kawhi is "hobbled" as he easily scores 36 points and controls pace with zero turnovers on warriors home court with their 73 win trio, that's how great this guy Kawhi is. In fact, kawhi has clowned the warriors the last 15 out of 17 quarters now and 1 game away from stopping two three peats. You are sleeping on kawhi's prime and legacy but when its all done you will understand where I was coming from.

Is this a comedy act? I mean come on.


Kawhi is really good, but your takes are just silly

[Tracymcgoaty]

The PC board has always been significantly better and possessed a different culture, but it's pretty noticeable to me how much worse the GB has gotten in the last year or so. So reactionary, so hostile, so whiny, so lacking in objectivity, and always painting everything as black or white with no middle ground. It's getting harder to bear.

Gotta be honest.... the PC board has gotten kind of bad also. There's a thread on there that is 6-7 pages trying to make the case that Kawhi is as good of a scorer as prime MJ

Lmao. It seriously feels like Realgm is slowly turning into the youtube/facebook basketball comment sections.

It's because we got these new accounts coming in with an agenda. These people aren't looking for a dicussion.

[Tracymcgoaty]

You should look up what % of their team's points each guy had to score

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_season_p.html

Jordan in 1992 was the only year he scored more total points. Jordan was always playing lesser games because he had the privilege of playing with the second best wing player of the 90s. Kawhi doesn't have anything close to that type of presence on his team as Lowry was a choker before Kawhi. People are still thinking kawhi is "hobbled" as he easily scores 36 points and controls pace with zero turnovers on warriors home court with their 73 win trio, that's how great this guy Kawhi is. In fact, kawhi has clowned the warriors the last 15 out of 17 quarters now and 1 game away from stopping two three peats. You are sleeping on kawhi's prime and legacy but when its all done you will understand where I was coming from.

Is this a comedy act? I mean come on.


Kawhi is really good, but your takes are just silly

Dont try to argue with Stans..it's impossible.

[-G-]

This run by Kawhi is more impressive than any run by LeBron.

This is just so wrong and a testament to you taking Lebron's greatness for granted; that you could say that is insane. Google him.

[TreyKincade]

Good for the Raptors to get a ring. But this forced elevation of greatness on kawhi is just nauseating.

Enjoy the pending epic upset, and leave the other nonsense alone.

[TheGOATRises007]

Lebron's playoff runs from 2017 and 2018 are better in every single facet.

Cavs in 2018

1st round - beat a Pacers team no one even expected to make the playoffs. Lebron’s SF matchup was against Bogdan Bogdanovic.

2nd round -beat a Raptors team with “superstar” Demar Derozan. Lebron’s SF matchup was OG Anunoby.

3rd round - beat the Celtics missing Kyrie and Hayward. Lebron’s SF matchup was rookie 19 year old Jayson Tatum.

What exactly is so impressive about this?

God you bron stans are insufferable.

Eddy_JukeZ is definitely not a Lebron stan.

Thank you.

Apparently thinking 2 of the greatest playoff runs ever are better than Kawhi's current run makes me a Lebron stan

Kawhi has had a great run, but the way people are talking, you'd think he has 4 g-league players around him and is winning 1 on 5.

[Chris435]

if you give Lebron/Kawhi weak supporting casts, there's no doubt in my mind Lebron will do more with that kind of supporting cast. It's harder to answer the question as the talent around them increases up to championship-level.

I think if you're trying to maximize the peak-production out of your team with strong supporting casts, Kawhi will be a better option (this is Kawhi at his best).

[life_saver]

Wow... people have short memory

[HBK_Kliq_33]

So the only arguments I heard for LeBron being better than kawhi in this thread is

"lebron has a top 3 peak of all time"

"Don't be like Kobe stans"

"Lebron has 6 or 7 years that past kawhi!"

I'm convinced that LeBron is not better if even his fans can't explain why. People just have the hype/#1 pick in their heads and think that automatically puts LeBron over kawhi. Even stats kawhi is better than LeBron at like rebounding, LeBron fans still said LeBron is better which just shows how generally full of crap they are.

[Tim Kempton]

Much respect to Kawhi but all of these 'Kawhi>LeBron', 'Kawhi is just like MJ', and 'Kawhi should be in the conversation for GOAT' type threads are authored by homers, haters, and/or 14 year olds with no sense or knowledge of NBA history.

He's having an amazing run. Can we just enjoy it without making outrageous comparisons?

[LakerLegend]

Kawhi won a Finals MVP head to head against LeBron, don't forget that and no, it's not the same as Iggy doing it(Though that does make LeBron look even worse)

[thebigbird]

So the only arguments I heard for LeBron being better than kawhi in this thread is

"lebron has a top 3 peak of all time"

"Don't be like Kobe stans"

"Lebron has 6 or 7 years that past kawhi!"

I'm convinced that LeBron is not better if even his fans can't explain why. People just have the hype/#1 pick in their heads and think that automatically puts LeBron over kawhi. Even stats kawhi is better than LeBron at like rebounding, LeBron fans still said LeBron is better which just shows how generally full of crap they are.

People have been making arguments left and right to destroy your takes. You just ignore them all. A dozen posters have shown you that Kawhi is not a better rebounder than LeBron, but you completely ignore them and continue to repeat the same debunked bs. The shtick is getting old.

[Gooner]

This run by Kawhi is more impressive than any run by LeBron.

Yeah I'm sure it's greater than when Lebron beat the 73-9 Warriors. Come on now, Leonard has a damn good team, and he has had TONS of fortune in the Finals. Not to mention Embiid was playing hurt too. The Raptors were favored by the ESPN/TNT crews going in to the finals, while the Warriors were favored in 2016, something like 2/3 favored.

LeBron had more help with Kyrie and Love, and bunch of shooters. And Warriors were banged up, You bring up Embiid injury, then do the same with that 2016 Warriors team, and Draymond suspension etc.

[Dupp]

This run by Kawhi is more impressive than any run by LeBron.

Yeah I'm sure it's greater than when Lebron beat the 73-9 Warriors. Come on now, Leonard has a damn good team, and he has had TONS of fortune in the Finals. Not to mention Embiid was playing hurt too. The Raptors were favored by the ESPN/TNT crews going in to the finals, while the Warriors were favored in 2016, something like 2/3 favored.

LeBron had more help with Kyrie and Love, and bunch of shooters. And Warriors were banged up, You bring up Embiid injury, then do the same with that 2016 Warriors team, and Draymond suspension etc.

Lmao at “banged up warriors” as an argument in kawhis favour

[Gooner]

Yeah I'm sure it's greater than when Lebron beat the 73-9 Warriors. Come on now, Leonard has a damn good team, and he has had TONS of fortune in the Finals. Not to mention Embiid was playing hurt too. The Raptors were favored by the ESPN/TNT crews going in to the finals, while the Warriors were favored in 2016, something like 2/3 favored.

LeBron had more help with Kyrie and Love, and bunch of shooters. And Warriors were banged up, You bring up Embiid injury, then do the same with that 2016 Warriors team, and Draymond suspension etc.

Lmao at “banged up warriors” as an argument in kawhis favour

Warriors didn't even have Durant back then. Igoudala had injuries, just like now, and Bogut missed last two games. Draymond got suspended in a pivotal gamne.