Future Free Agent Thread

[dr0welf]

I think we should go after one of Atlanta's 3 1st round picks. Exum, Bradley, Crowder/Favors for Bazemore and #17?

[KqWIN]

If we're taking Tjones at face value, the Nets have Kyrie secured. With their second max, they are likely going for KD and if he says no they have Harris ready to sign. If Harris signs, Russell will have to be renounced. If Harris does not sign, the Jazz are said to be his next priority.

We're going to get our shot if Tjones is right.

[Daddy 801]

If we can get one high level player (Tobias) it makes sense to have mostly the same team back. But if we don’t, I’m sort of ready to mini blow it up.

I would let everyone go besides Gobert, Mitchell, Ingles, and Royce.

I’d go after Randle, Bojan, and one of Green or Beverly. Preferably Green. I’m not sure how much space we would have if we released Favors, Thabo, and Neto. Then trade Korver, Crowder, and Exum for space if possible.

Assuming that’s all possible I would hope offering something like 4/80 to Randle, 3/50 to Bojan, and 3/45 to Green. Make all contracts decline in salary, have built in incentives for various metrics, and third year options on both Green and Bojan.

I haven’t looked enough to see if it works but I think it would if Exum and Crowder were traded.

A Mitchell, Green, Bojan, Randle, Gobert lineup is great shooting lineup. Randle probably gets to handle the ball plenty in this lineup. Then Ingles and Royce are the main guys off the bench.

Someone who actually knows the numbers these days can tell me if I’m smoking too much but I would be happy with something like this. The main concern is still a lack of elite athletes on the roster. But the spacing for Mitchell to operate would always be there with 2 of the four main wings/guards always being some combination of Green, Bojan, Ingles, and Royce. Even better if all of this can be done and somehow Korver can stay on the team.

I’m probably high though and this isn’t possible.

[stitches]

Here's my latest evaluation of our situation - none of the players we are linked to make a huge difference to us. Some might make us marginally better in some ways and marginally worse in other ways. Just an example - I am not certain Harris takes us into another tier of contenders. I am not sure D'Angelo makes us any more of a contender either.

In a weird way losing Ricky without replacing him IMO will have bigger impact than if we added Russell/Harris/Middleton/etc while losing Favors and Ricky. I think our ultimate fate will depend on how good Mitchell becomes. We need an MVP-contender level player to compete at the highest level in the playoffs and none of those players we are linked to in FA have even the potential to get there. Our only hope is Mitchell. We should be praying he takes the next step, because if he continues playing with his current efficiency, we are doomed to be at about the same level until we lose either Gobert or Mitchell..

[KqWIN]

Here's my latest evaluation of our situation - none of the players we are linked to make a huge difference to us. Some might make us marginally better in some ways and marginally worse in other ways. Just an example - I am not certain Harris takes us into another tier of contenders. I am not sure D'Angelo makes us any more of a contender either.

In a weird way losing Ricky without replacing him IMO will have bigger impact than if we added Russell/Harris/Middleton/etc while losing Favors and Ricky. I think our ultimate fate will depend on how good Mitchell becomes. We need an MVP-contender level player to compete at the highest level in the playoffs and none of those players we are linked to in FA have even the potential to get there. Our only hope is Mitchell. We should be praying he takes the next step, because if he continues playing with his current efficiency, we are doomed to be at about the same level until we lose either Gobert or Mitchell..

I agree, nothing really matters until he improves. I've sort of been operating on the assumption that Mitchell is a star, but he really isn't close to that. He plays a stars role, but he's arguably one of the worst at it in the league. He needs to improve a ton.

But I also think Favors and Rubio are more replaceable than you're making them out to be. Especially when you're talking about our ceiling. I've said it before, but Favors doesn't really impact our ceiling much. The best version of the Jazz is Gobert playing great. It happen every single game, but when it does that means Favors is on the bench.

Rubio will have a bigger impact, but our horrible roster construction has made us rely on him more than we should. Rubio is not who you want as your secondary scorer, but he's the only other +usage player on the team who doesn't get injured every few games. I don't think it's that hard to find someone who can do the job better. He obviously gives us a ton outside of scoring, but getting someone half decent at the things we need will do wonders for us.

Losing Favors and Rubio will have an effect, but it's hard for me to say that the impact will be large because I believe our current level is secured with Gobert, Mitchell, and Ingles. Rearrange the other pieces any way you want, we're still going to be a playoff team at least.

[stitches]

But I also think Favors and Rubio are more replaceable than you're making them out to be. Especially when you're talking about our ceiling. I've said it before, but Favors doesn't really impact our ceiling much. The best version of the Jazz is Gobert playing great. It happen every single game, but when it does that means Favors is on the bench.

Rubio will have a bigger impact, but our horrible roster construction has made us rely on him more than we should. Rubio is not who you want as your secondary scorer, but he's the only other +usage player on the team who doesn't get injured every few games. I don't think it's that hard to find someone who can do the job better. He obviously gives us a ton outside of scoring, but getting someone half decent at the things we need will do wonders for us.

Losing Favors and Rubio will have an effect, but it's hard for me to say that the impact will be large because I believe our current level is secured with Gobert, Mitchell, and Ingles. Rearrange the other pieces any way you want, we're still going to be a playoff team at least.

They are easier to get e reasonable facsimile of, but they are not very easy to upgrade. Especially when you lose both of them and you are replacing them with one player that is not that much better than them. The biggest improvement will be the fit IMO, not the quality of the player. In essence IMO the bigger improvement will come from the fit resulting in better situations for Gobert and Mitchell, rather than getting better players to replace Favors and Rubio.

I'm not so sure about the PG position as you are. We've seen it before - we didn't become a playoff team until we got an NBA level PG, even though we had both Hayward(who was better than Mitchell at that point) and Gobert...

I don't think we will be horrible, but i do think it's very possible we settle in the mid-40s wins for example, if we don't get good enough PG or SG to play next to Mitchell.

[Catchall]

Here's my latest evaluation of our situation - none of the players we are linked to make a huge difference to us. Some might make us marginally better in some ways and marginally worse in other ways. Just an example - I am not certain Harris takes us into another tier of contenders. I am not sure D'Angelo makes us any more of a contender either.

In a weird way losing Ricky without replacing him IMO will have bigger impact than if we added Russell/Harris/Middleton/etc while losing Favors and Ricky. I think our ultimate fate will depend on how good Mitchell becomes. We need an MVP-contender level player to compete at the highest level in the playoffs and none of those players we are linked to in FA have even the potential to get there. Our only hope is Mitchell. We should be praying he takes the next step, because if he continues playing with his current efficiency, we are doomed to be at about the same level until we lose either Gobert or Mitchell..

Mitchell's efficiency should improve when he only has to beat one or two defenders and has someone worthwhile to share possessions with.

[KqWIN]

But I also think Favors and Rubio are more replaceable than you're making them out to be. Especially when you're talking about our ceiling. I've said it before, but Favors doesn't really impact our ceiling much. The best version of the Jazz is Gobert playing great. It happen every single game, but when it does that means Favors is on the bench.

Rubio will have a bigger impact, but our horrible roster construction has made us rely on him more than we should. Rubio is not who you want as your secondary scorer, but he's the only other +usage player on the team who doesn't get injured every few games. I don't think it's that hard to find someone who can do the job better. He obviously gives us a ton outside of scoring, but getting someone half decent at the things we need will do wonders for us.

Losing Favors and Rubio will have an effect, but it's hard for me to say that the impact will be large because I believe our current level is secured with Gobert, Mitchell, and Ingles. Rearrange the other pieces any way you want, we're still going to be a playoff team at least.

They are easier to get e reasonable facsimile of, but they are not very easy to upgrade. Especially when you lose both of them and you are replacing them with one player that is not that much better than them. The biggest improvement will be the fit IMO, not the quality of the player. In essence IMO the bigger improvement will come from the fit resulting in better situations for Gobert and Mitchell, rather than getting better players to replace Favors and Rubio.

I'm not so sure about the PG position as you are. We've seen it before - we didn't become a playoff team until we got an NBA level PG, even though we had both Hayward(who was better than Mitchell at that point) and Gobert...

I don't think we will be horrible, but i do think it's very possible we settle in the mid-40s wins for example, if we don't get good enough PG or SG to play next to Mitchell.

Yes, we didn't make the playoffs with Shelvin Mack and rookie Raul Neto. But those guys were third string, replacement level players. We also would have made it without injuries to Gobert/Favors and should have anyways. I don't think it's that hard to get a real, NBA caliber PG. For example, I'm positive we could get Dragic for free or for a second round pick. Rubio is a better player, but the difference is not enough to make a difference. Like you said, I don't think it's very difficult at all to get a facsimile of them...which is why I don't think losing them is a huge loss.

Upgrading is harder, but Russell, Harris, Middleton (IDK why we keep mentioning him when he's 0%) etc would all be big upgrades. And again, I think we see these upgrades in our ceiling. We can very easily replace Rubio and Favors, but it's extremely difficult for us to get a player like Russell or Harris through FA. They'll have real, not easily replaceable impact. I don't see them as equivalents at all.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Here's my latest evaluation of our situation - none of the players we are linked to make a huge difference to us. Some might make us marginally better in some ways and marginally worse in other ways. Just an example - I am not certain Harris takes us into another tier of contenders. I am not sure D'Angelo makes us any more of a contender either.

In a weird way losing Ricky without replacing him IMO will have bigger impact than if we added Russell/Harris/Middleton/etc while losing Favors and Ricky. I think our ultimate fate will depend on how good Mitchell becomes. We need an MVP-contender level player to compete at the highest level in the playoffs and none of those players we are linked to in FA have even the potential to get there. Our only hope is Mitchell. We should be praying he takes the next step, because if he continues playing with his current efficiency, we are doomed to be at about the same level until we lose either Gobert or Mitchell..

I've wondered several times if the pickup in offense with acquiring players like Tobias or DLo will offset the loss in defense from losing Favors and Rubio as well. I think that the fit is better with these players and the potential to be better is much higher as well.

DLo will have gravity, opening up a lot for DM and Gobert, and giving Ingles some space, which apparently he needs to comfortably shoot. DLo won't give you the defense that Rubio does, though. DLo also gives the Jazz a one-two scoring punch from the guards.

The metrics show that the Jazz are better with Jae on the floor than Favors. So, one would have to assume that Tobias takes it to another level.

I could see the Jazz getting to the WCF with the addition of either of these players. We know how far the current roster can get to.

[SoCalJazzFan]

I think we should go after one of Atlanta's 3 1st round picks. Exum, Bradley, Crowder/Favors for Bazemore and #17?

That is a crap ton of payment to get to #17, which in this draft isn't much of a difference from #23. Unless you trade Exum and Crowder for Bazemore (not a good idea IMO), then you foreclose the opportunity to try to get Tobias or DLo, etc. as your cap space is gone.

[Inigo Montoya]

Here's my latest evaluation of our situation - none of the players we are linked to make a huge difference to us. Some might make us marginally better in some ways and marginally worse in other ways. Just an example - I am not certain Harris takes us into another tier of contenders. I am not sure D'Angelo makes us any more of a contender either.

This.

I guess the upside of getting one of them is that we'll have more assets to pull off a trade for a better player, if one becomes available. We'd still have an almost zero percent chance to get such a player, but at least we'd have some high-ish level talent to add to the trade that is not Gobert or DM. Better than the sackful of meh that we currently have.

[KqWIN]

Here's my latest evaluation of our situation - none of the players we are linked to make a huge difference to us. Some might make us marginally better in some ways and marginally worse in other ways. Just an example - I am not certain Harris takes us into another tier of contenders. I am not sure D'Angelo makes us any more of a contender either.

This.

I guess the upside of getting one of them is that we'll have more assets to pull off a trade for a better player, if one becomes available. We'd still have an almost zero percent chance to get such a player, but at least we'd have some high-ish level talent to add to the trade that is not Gobert or DM. Better than the sackful of meh that we currently have.

Important point. Rubio and Favors have no trade value outside of salary filler. Harris and Russell are at least desirable players, and their trade value wouldn't be killed by playing for us.

I understand the whole, "they don't make us contender" mentality...but it feels more like a complaint than a solution or plan. What do we actually want to do? Do we want to quit right now and tank so we can feed ourselves hope that we draft multiple superstars? We could spend a decade doing that and not find a single Donovan or Rudy.

Point is, we have Rudy and Donovan. Let's build the best team we can. If the best team we can build is not a superteam, that doesn't mean we just do nothing.

[Luigi]

Here's my latest evaluation of our situation - none of the players we are linked to make a huge difference to us. Some might make us marginally better in some ways and marginally worse in other ways. Just an example - I am not certain Harris takes us into another tier of contenders. I am not sure D'Angelo makes us any more of a contender either.

This.

I guess the upside of getting one of them is that we'll have more assets to pull off a trade for a better player, if one becomes available. We'd still have an almost zero percent chance to get such a player, but at least we'd have some high-ish level talent to add to the trade that is not Gobert or DM. Better than the sackful of meh that we currently have.

It would be a big bet on Mitchell and Russell both taking steps in efficiency. If they both improve there, things could go well. That might be a risky bet. Maybe they help each other improve... hard to say.

Another possibility is that Gobert is able to be a one man defense and clean up after weak guards. This would be a shift in board philosophy though. Around the time we brought on Crowder, people on the board were high on pointing out that we now run all plus defenders in the rotation, and that was the reason for improvements. I think Locke might have been the one pushing that. I do worry about weak links on defense, in the playoffs especially.

But I do wanna see a shakeup.

[Inigo Montoya]

I understand the whole, "they don't make us contender" mentality...but it feels more like a complaint than a solution or plan.

Welcome to the world of fan sports forums.

What do we actually want to do? Do we want to quit right now and tank so we can feed ourselves hope that we draft multiple superstars? We could spend a decade doing that and not find a single Donovan or Rudy.

Point is, we have Rudy and Donovan. Let's build the best team we can. If the best team we can build is not a superteam, that doesn't mean we just do nothing.

There are two courses of action I'm willing to take:

1. Try to build the best team we can in the next two seasons, until DM and Gobert are due new deals. If we get a good talent in that span to add that could make this team a contender in the future, then that'd be fine by me. If we fail to get that player and are forced to max DM and Gobert (perhaps even supermax) without any way to improve the team beyond the level it is now or was last season, I'd like to blow it up and try to build again around DM's timeline.

2. Decide that there aren't players out there that we can realistically get by the time DM and Gobert are going to be maxed, who will make us a contender and take preemptive measures now while Gobert's stock is at its highest, and blow it up now-ish and build around DM's timeline.

I realize neither option is one that the franchise will be willing to take. The likeliest scenario is that we fail to obtain that third player by the time DM and Gobert are maxed, and that the Jazz will roll out a team of a similar level to what we had this season or the previous one, which is not close to contention, and will continue to roll that level of team out for the next half-decade (plus the next two seasons, so about 7 seasons of treadmill). To me, this is the worst possible outcome. I will lose interest in this team if this happens. I'll still be a fan, but I won't bother with this team nearly as much as I have up to this point, and that includes electing not to spend money on whatever they sell due to lack of interest and emotional investment.

[Rauxcee]

Here's my latest evaluation of our situation - none of the players we are linked to make a huge difference to us. Some might make us marginally better in some ways and marginally worse in other ways. Just an example - I am not certain Harris takes us into another tier of contenders. I am not sure D'Angelo makes us any more of a contender either.

This is important. This is an issue the Jazz have always faced in the past, what they face in the present, and what they will continue to face in the future: the inability to get a FA that brings us to that next level.

We're talking about getting 3rd tier "stars" and how awesome that would be, knowing they don't make us a contender, and knowing there is a very slight chance of actually even getting them. That's how "desperate" we are.

Ultimately though they do improve the team. Might as well improve the team the best they are capable of, even if it doesn't lead to a contender.

The Jazz really need to get some players that have trade value though. They really don't have any (maybe Ingles and Royce) and that limits us in improving the team the best way the Jazz can, through trades. They should focus on accumulating desirable assets for trades. Haven't had anything with much value in a long time (thanks injuries).

[Inigo Montoya]

The Jazz really need to get some players that have trade value though. They really don't have any (maybe Ingles and Royce) and that limits us in improving the team the best way the Jazz can, through trades. They should focus on accumulating desirable assets for trades. Haven't had anything with much value in a long time (thanks injuries).

It's all Captain Flexibility's fault.

[Rauxcee]

The Jazz really need to get some players that have trade value though. They really don't have any (maybe Ingles and Royce) and that limits us in improving the team the best way the Jazz can, through trades. They should focus on accumulating desirable assets for trades. Haven't had anything with much value in a long time (thanks injuries).

It's all Captain Flexibility's fault.

I personally blame Mr Cash Considerations. If he played better, teams should be knocking on our door for a trade for him.

[Inigo Montoya]

The Jazz really need to get some players that have trade value though. They really don't have any (maybe Ingles and Royce) and that limits us in improving the team the best way the Jazz can, through trades. They should focus on accumulating desirable assets for trades. Haven't had anything with much value in a long time (thanks injuries).

It's all Captain Flexibility's fault.

I personally blame Mr Cash Considerations. If he played better, teams should be knocking on our door for a trade for him.

How dare you bash Cash Considerations! He's our MVP every year, the front office can't get enough of him.

[AingesBurner]

I am calling it.. Terry Rozier and Tobias Harris to Utah

[dr0welf]

I think we should go after one of Atlanta's 3 1st round picks. Exum, Bradley, Crowder/Favors for Bazemore and #17?

That is a crap ton of payment to get to #17, which in this draft isn't much of a difference from #23. Unless you trade Exum and Crowder for Bazemore (not a good idea IMO), then you foreclose the opportunity to try to get Tobias or DLo, etc. as your cap space is gone.

We could change it up a bit. Exum, Korver, Thabo and get Bazemore & #17. This would save $4,304,663 in salary minus the #17 hold of $2,067,500 so 2.3 mil saved and be get Bazemore which would be a good addition, draft 2 of either Kab, Edwards, Samanic.

Atlanta tries their luck on Exum instead of drafting another rookie. Exum in good condition would make a great backcourt combo with Trae imho.