NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4

[Kanyewest]

You should know better if you're sitting in these seats, in particular if you're a minority owner.

Still, seems to be that the reaction and punishment handed down from the league is way over the top.

Lowry calling for a lifetime ban and refusing to accept an apology, Lebron making a spectacle out of this and acting as if this the most egregious thing that's ever happened in sports.

Give me a break.

It was a shove/nudge that shouldn't have happened but other than Lowry's ego and some unwritten rules being broken was anybody seriously hurt by Mr. Stevens actions?

The league should have just donated the fine to a charity of Lowry's choosing, handed out a ban for the rest of the playoffs and be done with it.

Can't help but feel like this is the league trying to send a message to Drake about his behavior.

Glad I'm not the only one who saw it that way. It was one of the wimpiest little shoves I've ever seen - he couldn't have hurt a fly with that shove. People are acting like it was a lot more than that. I mean... he certainly deserved to be thrown out of the game and probably should be banned from the rest of the playoffs, but other than that... meh.

Tbh, I'd love to see Drake banned.

We don't know what the guy was saying. Lowry claims the guy was cussing at him.

It was clearly a GTF away from me move. Maybe the league tried to make an example of him as a part owner but I don't really have any sympathy for him.

If someone did a push like that in another setting it could easily lead to a fight.

On Thursday morning, Toronto Star sports columnist Bruce Arthur said on Twitter that a source "claims Stevens told Lowry, several times, 'Go f*** yourself" after Lowry went into the first row of seats chasing a loose ball.

https://www.newsweek.com/golden-state-warriors-minority-owner-shunned-after-pushing-kyle-lowry-during-game-3-1442677

[FAH1223]

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Kawhi kept them in the game when GSW was threatening to blow the game open in the 1st quarter. 14 of their 17 points.

Then hit back to back 3s to start the 3rd to give Raps the lead. Then extended the lead by dropping 17 in that 3rd quarter.

36pts 12rebs on 11 for 22 shooting, 5 for 9 from 3pt, 9 for 9 free throws, and 0 turnovers

Only reason he didn't score 40+ is bc GSW started doubling again after his 3rd quarter explosion, so he passed and let his teammates score off the scramble.

Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green on another team that will stop a 3-peat.

[Dat2U]

Call me a fool but my gut tells me the Warriors will win in 7.

They'd probably have a better shot if Cousins didn't play lol.

[montestewart]

Call me a fool but my gut tells me the Warriors will win in 7.

They'd probably have a better shot if Cousins didn't play lol.

I never go out on a limb and make bold predictions, or rain on anyone else's bold predictions, but I sure want the Raptors to win. Think of that Kawhi legacy, Finals MVP twice by age 27, stopping two "dynasties" and LeBJ and Curry along the way

[closg00]

Never count GSW, Curry is due for a God-like performance...but I do want Toronto to win

[FAH1223]

Never count GSW, Curry is due for a God-like performance...but I do want Toronto to win

Call me a fool but my gut tells me the Warriors will win in 7.

They'd probably have a better shot if Cousins didn't play lol.

Curry nearly dropped 50 last game.

Toronto's defense is GREAT. They will not get blown out and low-key are a bucket or two away or rather one bad 3rd quarter from sweeping this series.

Can't see the Warriors coming back down 3-1 with all the injuries, fatique, and Toronto being healthier, slightly deeper, and matching up defensively.

Of course the Raptors will go on scoring droughts but they have made adjustments that I doubted Nurse would make.

[payitforward]

I don't agree with the Stevens punishment. I think he should be forced to move to Phoenix, watch every home game from the cheapest & worst seats, & pass a quiz on each game before being allowed to leave his seat.

What...?

(No, I'm in accord with the lifetime ban. In fact, were it up to me, it would be extended to all Silicon Valley VCs)

[doclinkin]

Toronto's defense is GREAT. They will not get blown out and low-key are a bucket or two away or rather one bad 3rd quarter from sweeping this series.

Can't see the Warriors coming back down 3-1 with all the injuries, fatique, and Toronto being healthier, slightly deeper, and matching up defensively.

Of course the Raptors will go on scoring droughts but they have made adjustments that I doubted Nurse would make.

This is part of what I’ve been banging on about this offseason and looking ahead to the future. For a few years now teams have been trying to find the counter to the meta game of “pace and space”. Ultimately GSW is undone by injuries. However the success of the Raptors —especially post Gasol trade— suggests what I was talking about.


In the three ball era the team that can rebound the extra misses from those long ranged shots has a chance to stop the ridiculous runs and streaks that GSW goes on. And a team or player (like Kawhi) that can score 50% on 2pt shots may prove more valuable than a team that scores 33.3—% on three point shots. They control the tempo. Take the pace part out of the game.

Easier said than done. It is simpler to clog the middle than to cover the entire perimeter. But a team that has a top notch midrange game is a tough cover. If they rebound well they have a chance. Even the best pace and space teams rely on those streaks. If you can slow the game and reduce the number of chances then the 50% midrange team wins over the 33% long range team. There just aren’t enough balls in the air to make up the difference in time. And if you rebound then you get to determine the pace and starve them of the opportunities.

To me it suggests a cheap way to build a solid team. Since interior scorers and midrange gunners are overlooked. They will come at a discount. Since teams over pay for exterior shooters and rangy wings, look for bargains in rebounding toughs who can score in traffic. And ballhandlers who can work in a crowd.

Let the outside gunners shoot. Once. Then score on the other end. Interior attackers are more likely to be fouled. Play a motion game to work for open shots. But if not then attack and let them hack. If Houston had one or two midrange players as a bailout when Harden when
Needed help they’d have a complete team and would not die by the sword of the streaky runs.

Dunno. Just seems to me while we have to build on the cheap we look to the example of the Spurs. Sixers. Raptors. Clippers. And find scrappy defenders. Interior toughness. Rebounding. Things that don’t prove to be as pricey and hard to find as elite two way wing players. Seems to me we can assemble a team that works well this way with Beal as a key figure. He’s got all three levels to his game now. Inside. outside. Midrange.

[Ruzious]

Never count GSW, Curry is due for a God-like performance...but I do want Toronto to win

Call me a fool but my gut tells me the Warriors will win in 7.

They'd probably have a better shot if Cousins didn't play lol.

Curry nearly dropped 50 last game.

Toronto's defense is GREAT. They will not get blown out and low-key are a bucket or two away or rather one bad 3rd quarter from sweeping this series.

Can't see the Warriors coming back down 3-1 with all the injuries, fatique, and Toronto being healthier, slightly deeper, and matching up defensively.

Of course the Raptors will go on scoring droughts but they have made adjustments that I doubted Nurse would make.

For today's rules and today's NBA, the Raptors have the best frontcourt defense of any team... in NBA history. Yeah, I said it. And a big part of that is Ibaka playing at maybe the highest level of his career. And Gasol is no slouch either - wasn't he a former DPOY? What Leonard and Siacam and Ibaka do is make what would ordinarily be simple passes against them - so much harder and stressful - that alone makes it exhausting to play against them. In the NFL, there's a relatively new term called catch radius - to show how much room a WR has to make a catch - with his combo of size/length/leaping/speed. If there was a similar NBA stat to show the amount of ground Leonard, Siakam, and Ibaka cover, they would likely be easily the top in the NBA - and each of them is strong in addition to all that.

I want to see Durant play - so that the Toronto front court defense will be on full display. GS may gut out the win tonight, but even if they do, it's going to take so much out of them that they'll get destroyed in game 6.

[I_Like_Dirt]

For today's rules and today's NBA, the Raptors have the best frontcourt defense of any team... in NBA history. Yeah, I said it. And a big part of that is Ibaka playing at maybe the highest level of his career. And Gasol is no slouch either - wasn't he a former DPOY? What Leonard and Siacam and Ibaka do is make what would ordinarily be simple passes against them - so much harder and stressful - that alone makes it exhausting to play against them. In the NFL, there's a relatively new term called catch radius - to show how much room a WR has to make a catch - with his combo of size/length/leaping/speed. If there was a similar NBA stat to show the amount of ground Leonard, Siakam, and Ibaka cover, they would likely be easily the top in the NBA - and each of them is strong in addition to all that.

Two former DPOYs, then Danny Green, Siakam, Ibaka, FVV who is quietly a terror on defense, and Lowry. Everyone is at least a plus defender. Serge is probably the most exploitable, Siakam the most mistake-prone, and Lowry on average the worst, which isn't saying much because the worst of that group is still very good and Lowry is one of those strong guards who isn't an ideal matchup to chase around little firebug guards but who is strong enough that bigger players can't isolate on him and push him around. And Anunoby hasn't even played and I doubt he does given where the series is at and his offensive struggles in a season where he couldn't get any real rhythm going but his defense is probably better than Siakam's.

Much like the Warriors before them, the Raptors have hit all the inefficiencies in the market. The Warriors largely avoided spending big money on traditional bigs and instead focused on shooting, passing and the ability to switch on defense. Everyone caught wind of that and started looking into shooting in particular and the Raptors prioritized elite defense at every position mixed with players who weren't 0s on offense but came with more ballhandling and midrange ability along with the ability to hit 3s. They're a 3&D team in the style of the Warriors only they emphasize the D rather than the 3. They're ridiculously fundamentally sound and then have Leonard to bail them out if things get tricky.

[Kanyewest]

For today's rules and today's NBA, the Raptors have the best frontcourt defense of any team... in NBA history. Yeah, I said it. And a big part of that is Ibaka playing at maybe the highest level of his career. And Gasol is no slouch either - wasn't he a former DPOY? What Leonard and Siacam and Ibaka do is make what would ordinarily be simple passes against them - so much harder and stressful - that alone makes it exhausting to play against them. In the NFL, there's a relatively new term called catch radius - to show how much room a WR has to make a catch - with his combo of size/length/leaping/speed. If there was a similar NBA stat to show the amount of ground Leonard, Siakam, and Ibaka cover, they would likely be easily the top in the NBA - and each of them is strong in addition to all that.

Two former DPOYs, then Danny Green, Siakam, Ibaka, FVV who is quietly a terror on defense, and Lowry. Everyone is at least a plus defender. Serge is probably the most exploitable, Siakam the most mistake-prone, and Lowry on average the worst, which isn't saying much because the worst of that group is still very good and Lowry is one of those strong guards who isn't an ideal matchup to chase around little firebug guards but who is strong enough that bigger players can't isolate on him and push him around. And Anunoby hasn't even played and I doubt he does given where the series is at and his offensive struggles in a season where he couldn't get any real rhythm going but his defense is probably better than Siakam's.

Much like the Warriors before them, the Raptors have hit all the inefficiencies in the market. The Warriors largely avoided spending big money on traditional bigs and instead focused on shooting, passing and the ability to switch on defense. Everyone caught wind of that and started looking into shooting in particular and the Raptors prioritized elite defense at every position mixed with players who weren't 0s on offense but came with more ballhandling and midrange ability along with the ability to hit 3s. They're a 3&D team in the style of the Warriors only they emphasize the D rather than the 3. They're ridiculously fundamentally sound and then have Leonard to bail them out if things get tricky.

A couple things to add for Lowry is that he is very good at drawing charges. So far he has drawn 16 charges in the postseason. To put that in comparison, the Kings for the entire season recorded 17 offensive charges and the Trail Blazers recorded 18. The next highest in the playoffs is Draymond with 8.

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals&sort=CHARGES_DRAWN&dir=1

Lowry is also the leader in loose balls recovered at 42, ahead of his teammate Kawhi Leonard at 35.

IMO Lowry is the 3rd best defensive player on the Raptors behind Leonard and Siakim. And guys like Gasol, Green, and Ibaka are good defenders. I would say Lowry is simply more consistent (ie if Ibaka or Green are not playing well offensively than they struggle on the other end, you could make a case for Gasol since he knows where to be but isn't very athletic either). (Not sure how to evaluate Van Vleet in this, he's moving up too on how he's defending Curry although he is getting a lot of help from hedges from big men and box and one defenses).

[I_Like_Dirt]

I don't know that there's a wrong answer because they're all so good defensively and 10 different people could have 10 different takes. I think Gasol is the 2nd best defender on the Raptors despite being old. Lowry is their 2nd or 3rd best player depending on how a person decides to rank him and Siakam (I don't really see any distinction as mattering at all, but more for discussion's sake). Lowry absolutely does do all the hustle stuff on both sides of the floor and finds ways to be effective no matter what. Van Vleet has been a better defender than him in the playoffs, though. He's the guy who slows Curry down more and the guy they've had stuck to the tougher defensive matchups for the most part. He's just worse than Lowry offensively for now when he isn't dropping 8 of 10 from 3 or something like that. I've been really impressed with Van Vleet these playoffs. Raptor fans seem hot and cold on him because, like many fans, they don't seem to see a distinction between star-not star. Van Vleet looks like a modern day Derek Fisher to me - one of those gutty playoff performers who's defense you can rely on and who's shot may or may not go in but he's going to help the team regardless. It isn't an ideal comparison but the game has also changed a lot.

[closg00]

Go Raps, let's wrap this up

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[Dat2U]

Never underestimate the heart of a champion.

Warriors are winning this series.

[DCZards]

Never underestimate the heart of a champion.

Warriors are winning this series.

Agree with your first sentence. Not as sure about the second statement. I don't see GS winning a seventh game in Toronto without KD.

[pancakes3]

don't underestimate kawhi's either though

[Illuminaire]

I have concerns. 65% Healthy Cousins and Practically Broken Looney are probably not survivable for two more games.

It's really sad. If KD could have just played 2-3 games, that would be enough. If Looney was 100%, that would be enough. If they had just one more shooter off the bench worth playing, that would be enough.

It's going to be brutally hard to win another two games with such a hobbled, limited lineup. That said, while I wouldn't want to bet on the Warriors... it's possible.

Unlikely.

But possible.

[pancakes3]

i'm going to vegas on thursday and i'm def putting money on GSW winning game 6.

[Ruzious]

Never underestimate the heart of a champion.

Warriors are winning this series.

Nope, I thought the Warriors would win tonight, but it would take too much out of them for them to win game 6. They're just too drained - both physically and mentally. You could see it in the post-game interviews. And Durant's obviously done. Didn't realize how skinny his calves are. When we draft Bol Bol, we'll have to worry about that.

And Cousins... he scored some points, but he gave up twice as many, and that moving pick almost blew the game. GS doesn't have the depth they've had in past years.

[nate33]

I have concerns. 65% Healthy Cousins and Practically Broken Looney are probably not survivable for two more games.

It's really sad. If KD could have just played 2-3 games, that would be enough. If Looney was 100%, that would be enough. If they had just one more shooter off the bench worth playing, that would be enough.

It's going to be brutally hard to win another two games with such a hobbled, limited lineup. That said, while I wouldn't want to bet on the Warriors... it's possible.

Unlikely.

But possible.

I agree. There's just too many injuries. I give the a 50/50 shot at winning Game 6 at home, but there's virtually no chance of them winning Game 7.