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Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition

Moderators: Jeff Van Gully, King of Canada, mrpoetryNmotion, mpharris36, j4remi, Deeeez Knicks, GONYK, K-DOT, NoLayupRule, Capn'O, Thugger HBC

Predict the Finals

Raps in 4
18
20%
Raptors in 5
17
19%
Raptors in 6
13
15%
Raptors in 7
9
10%
Warriors in 7
4
5%
Warriors in 6
16
18%
Warriors in 5
8
9%
Warriors in 4
3
3%
 
Total votes: 88

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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1741 » by Hes_On_Fire » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:15 am

bleedblue3303 wrote:
Hes_On_Fire wrote:
bleedblue3303 wrote:I don't think you all understand the severity of what happened tonight. Firstly for KD. and then for our franchise. This is possibly the worst thing to happen in the history of the franchise. The best player in the world was going to join the Knicks and bring a second star with him. Next we were going to try our best to trade for AD. We were going to have a big 3 ready to win many championships. that all ended the minute Durant went down.


The worst thing to happen in the history of the franchise is James Dolan's ownership.



I have to be honest I'm getting tired of everyone always blaming Dolan. The man has had nothing to do with the organization for quite a while. The world begged him to hire Donnie Walsh. Donnie screwed up the Lebron James Free agency which was basically his sole purpose to exist. The world begged him to hire Phil Jackson. he did and took a step back. People than begged him to fire the man. he did. Now with Perry and Mills in Front office and Fizsdale as coach we seems to be building something. He hasn't interfered.

Dolan has not been a great owner. But he was willing to take chances and throw money at building a winner. Now he is still willing to do both and leave it in the hands of competent basketball people.


Revisionist thinking.

LeBron was never coming here and Dolan was reading off a cue card and mumbling during the LeBron presentation anyway.

Nobody begged him to hire Phil Jackson as president at 70 years old with zero GM experience. He could have paid anyone that money. He could have went after an actual GM like Ujiri. The guy always chased the names over the actual basketball acumen. Just like the Isiah hire. Nobody begged for that either.

If you sucked at your job you wouldn't last 20 years. Dolan has. Stop giving him excuses. If he was a player, coach or GM you would be trashing him and his record, which is the worst in the entire league since 2001. That's not a made up statistic either.

Screw James Dolan and anyone who tries to pass him off as an asset to the franchise.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1742 » by Oscirus » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:20 am

bleedblue3303 wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
Hes_On_Fire wrote:
The worst thing to happen in the history of the franchise is James Dolan's ownership.

Yea this aint even top 5. Its not like Durant was guaranteed to come here



He was coming! It was the worst kept secret in the NBA. What are you talking about

How many people have been coming to the Knicks according to the media that never came?
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1743 » by bleedblue3303 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:20 am

Hes_On_Fire wrote:
bleedblue3303 wrote:
Hes_On_Fire wrote:
The worst thing to happen in the history of the franchise is James Dolan's ownership.



I have to be honest I'm getting tired of everyone always blaming Dolan. The man has had nothing to do with the organization for quite a while. The world begged him to hire Donnie Walsh. Donnie screwed up the Lebron James Free agency which was basically his sole purpose to exist. The world begged him to hire Phil Jackson. he did and took a step back. People than begged him to fire the man. he did. Now with Perry and Mills in Front office and Fizsdale as coach we seems to be building something. He hasn't interfered.

Dolan has not been a great owner. But he was willing to take chances and throw money at building a winner. Now he is still willing to do both and leave it in the hands of competent basketball people.


Revisionist thinking.

LeBron was never coming here and Dolan was reading off a cue card and mumbling during the LeBron presentation anyway.

Nobody begged him to hire Phil Jackson as president at 70 years old with zero GM experience. He could have paid anyone that money. He could have went after an actual GM like Ujiri. The guy always chased the names over the actual basketball acumen. Just like the Isiah hire. Nobody begged for that either.

If you sucked at your job you wouldn't last 20 years. Dolan has. Stop giving him excuses. If he was a player, coach or GM you would be trashing him and his record, which is the worst in the entire league since 2001. That's not a made up statistic either.

Screw James Dolan and anyone who tries to pass him off as an asset to the franchise.




No one begged him to hire Phil Jackson? Every newspaper in the world pushed for that hire.

Lebron actually thought for a min he was coming here. He wasnt sure till Donnie Walsh had to be wheeled in to meet him. Learn some history before you speak on this stuff.

Again. If you read my post I never said Dolan was a great owner. But I did say he's willing to spend the money and has decided to leave basketball decisions for the basketball people. For now he is fine.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1744 » by bleedblue3303 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:21 am

Oscirus wrote:
bleedblue3303 wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Yea this aint even top 5. Its not like Durant was guaranteed to come here



He was coming! It was the worst kept secret in the NBA. What are you talking about

How many people have been coming to the Knicks according to the media that never came?




I can tell you he was coming. Believe me or not. I know for a fact. He was coming.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1745 » by blueNorange » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:52 am

i don't want durant anymore, he's damaged goods.

robinson
barrett
knox
dotson
dsj

roll the dice.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1746 » by 2020 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:54 am

bleedblue3303 wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
bleedblue3303 wrote:

He was coming! It was the worst kept secret in the NBA. What are you talking about

How many people have been coming to the Knicks according to the media that never came?




I can tell you he was coming. Believe me or not. I know for a fact. He was coming.


He can still come AND be Great AND be cheaper
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1747 » by FKF » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:06 am

bleedblue3303 wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
bleedblue3303 wrote:

He was coming! It was the worst kept secret in the NBA. What are you talking about

How many people have been coming to the Knicks according to the media that never came?




I can tell you he was coming. Believe me or not. I know for a fact. He was coming.


These posts are worth **** without backup. And by NBA rules, no one can make such statement prior to July 1 anyway. If the Knicks thought free agency started in November, they're stupid. If they thought last night's injury affected them, even more stupid.

Number one, the Knicks had/have equal chances to sign KD, as the Nets or Clippers. That's in a scenario he does leave San Francisco.
Number two, even if Durant signs in NY, and even healthy, it has been proven times and times again in the NBA, that one player cannot and doesn't make the impact. The Pelicans have had Anthony Davis for years. Losing squad. The Lakers signed LeBron, missed the play-offs. Shall I go further ? Durant has been WCF with Westbrook and Harden. He's been NBA champs with Curry, Thompson and Green. Who can he compete with in NY ? Even if you get Kyrie, who's the frontline ? who's in the starting lineup ? where's the bench ?

It is a TEAM culture and plan which will eventually restore the Knicks to higher standards.
That's what most folks in the United States fail to understand. The Knicks can sign Durant, and STILL remain in the lottery. So they shouldn't ever feel KD's injury impacts their plans. It doesn't. What they should be concerned with, is their draft picks, their coaching staff, and their coming up training camps.

If they had spent half the time they spent lobbying for KD, on trying to grow the players they already own, people would see where they're going, and people would want to come and join. They don't understand that.
For years, they didn't have cap space, they were the last franchise to properly understand the CBA. Now they have cap space, they promote it like it is enough to build a winner. Ask Gregg Popovich or Pat Riley, if cap space is enough to build a winner.

Look at how the Warriors and Raptors built themselves. How many years did it take for these teams to compete at a higher level, then at a higher level, then a higher level, now up to contending. The Knicks are soooooo far away from contending, it's not even funny anymore and I don't know where to start to explain. I swear they could get Curry and Thompson, this summer, and still struggle to make the play-offs with such a dysfunctional organization Steve Kerr didn't want to touch, even with his old coach and friend if the upper office.

And y'all buy the Jim Dolan Kool Aid. Amazing how this owner keeps his crowd to buy, and to buy, and to buy again and ever all the BS moves and plans his Knicks have had in two decades. The owner is not just the guy who pays the money. That's another ridiculous thing to believe. That is what Dolan wants you to believe, since he'll always be capable of doing so.

The owner is the top of the franchise, the top of the culture. They all talk about how great the owners are in Golden State. And how bad she is in Lala Land since papa died. Explain why Mike D'Antoni does well only outside of NY and LA. Mike could surely explain you why, without microphones.

Open your eyes. I have wasted 20 yrs of my life hoping for my Knicks with Jim Dolan on top. Dolan has wasted the legacies of some of this game's greatness who happened to work for him. I've stopped worrying and I managed to understand Dolan always finds a way to screw up. I feel so much better now!
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1748 » by MadMaximum » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:46 am

2010 wrote:
MadMaximum wrote:
2010 wrote:
Yup. SAS & Popovich used the same tactics as the Warriors braintrust. Media pressure, mislabeling a serious injury with passive diagnosis, and using teammates and media coverage to put a players toughness and/or commitment to the team in question. Really dirty.


This is fabrication. Pop wanted to shut Kawhi down for the entire year. Kawhi's uncle kept refusing, saying he'll be back to play in a week. Two weeks. A Month. Why? Kawhi had a Nike shoe deal that needed to be renewed and players that miss an entire season worth of basketball don't really receive favorable endorsement deals. He played two weeks worth of games - these games coincided with the Nike negotiations for a new contract. When Nike told them they wouldn't give them anything more than 20 mil, Uncle Dennis walked and promptly shut Kawhi down for the season.

Spurs have always been risk-averse with their players. When prime Duncan received an injury at the tail end of the 2000 season, they shut him down for the entire playoffs despite doctors clearing him to play. They opted to play it safe instead of defending their title. When Robinson hurt his back in 1997, they shut him down for the entire season despite being cleared to play in February. Pop invented the whole resting players gimmick in order to protect their longevity. He even got fined by the NBA for resting his players on nationally televised games. Everybody in the media criticized him for resting his guys too much and now they want to present a false narrative about him being a Thibodeau type slave driver. Make up your minds.


There are two sides to every story. Clearly we're on separate sides. You can't deny the Spurs attempts to pressure Kawhi to play.


I can deny because it didn't happen. Let's see who's more reliable? The coach that was cautious enough to shut down HOFers like Tim Duncan and David Robinson in their prime, protecting them from further injury. The same coach that revolutionized the longevity of his players careers by sitting them out throughout the regular season(lol at Raptors pretending they're doing anything new here with Leonard). Remember the collective media whining about Pop sitting out Duncan, Parker, Manu, Leonard against the Heat in a regular season game? Protecting the health of your players was a bad thing back then but apparently it's now a good thing? Pop was fined by the league for RESTING his guys. He didn't care. He payed the fines and continued to rest his players.

Or you could take the word of a bank manager from New Jersey who has an axe to grind with his nephew's former team because they refused to offer him a front office position and didn't let him wander around the training facility(like he's doing now for the Raptors). The same uncle that refused all advice from the Spurs, like leaving the hotel early during all-star weekend and ended up stuck in traffic for hours with his nephew.

2010 wrote:Vets were even prodded to goad Kawhi into coming back. Which is why Parker questioned Kawhi's toughness. Privately and publicly.


Spurs are not a plantation. Players are free to act on their own free will. That's why it's called a players only meeting. Danny Green himself(Kawhi's teammate on the Raptors) said the whole thing's been blown out of proportion. Danny has no loyalty to the Spurs or Kawhi's uncle so he's the most neutral party here. The "heated, emotional team meeting orchestrated by Pop" was all nonsense peddled by Stephen Jackson who's still bitter that he was waived off the team the year before the Spurs won their title against the Heat. He wanted playing time over Manu and Danny Green. Pop told him to his face you're not better than either one of those guys which has triggered him ever since. But yeah, let's trust the word of a guy who lost his front teeth after he got hit by a car because he fired multiple shots outside an Indiana strip club. The same guy that nearly beat a handicapped man to death in a parking lot.

If Leonard and Uncle Dennis truly felt wronged by the Spurs staffers over his injuries, why did they request to be traded to the Lakers? The team that ended Steve Nash's career and achilled Kobe to death. The same medical staff that misdiagnosed Karl Malone's knee injury and rushed him to recovery too soon, ending his career during the NBA Finals(sound familiar to Durant). The same medical staff that are risking the life of Ingram(who has blood clot problems) by clearing him for basketball activities just so they can trade him for A Davis. The same medical staff that caused Lebron to miss 25+ games for the first time in his career(he played 82 games last season). The team who's youngsters are all injury prone for some mysterious reason.

Or maybe, it's just an excuse to play in a bigger market.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1749 » by waya » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:51 am

MadMaximum wrote:
2010 wrote:
NY2k1 wrote:
Seeing how this happened, I officially don't blame Kawhi Leonard (not that I really did before)


Yup. SAS & Popovich used the same tactics as the Warriors braintrust. Media pressure, mislabeling a serious injury with passive diagnosis, and using teammates and media coverage to put a players toughness and/or commitment to the team in question. Really dirty.


This is fabrication. Pop wanted to shut Kawhi down for the entire year. Kawhi's uncle kept refusing, saying he'll be back to play in a week. Two weeks. A Month. Why? Kawhi had a Nike shoe deal that needed to be renewed and players that miss an entire season worth of basketball don't really receive favorable endorsement deals. He played two weeks worth of games - these games coincided with the Nike negotiations for a new contract. When Nike told them they wouldn't give them anything more than 20 mil, Uncle Dennis walked and promptly shut Kawhi down for the season.

Spurs have always been risk-averse with their players. When prime Duncan received an injury at the tail end of the 2000 season, they shut him down for the entire playoffs despite doctors clearing him to play. They opted to play it safe instead of defending their title. When Robinson hurt his back in 1997, they shut him down for the entire season despite being cleared to play in February. Pop invented the whole resting players gimmick in order to protect their longevity. He even got fined by the NBA for resting his players on nationally televised games. Everybody in the media criticized him for resting his guys too much and now they want to present a false narrative about him being a Thibodeau type slave driver. Make up your minds.


+1

It's hilarious how people are buying into that about the Spurs when they have basically wrote the book on FO/coach/player rectitude in the NBA. The idea that they'd change that for their top 5 franchise player (who they developed from day one) is ludicrous.

The sad thing is, the Spurs are keeping in line with the classiness, staying mum on the matter and basically letting that sh*t-stain Uncle Dennis drag them through the mud.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1750 » by El Poochio » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:53 am

Knew Warrior Dynasty was over as soon as Chelsea left for Atlanta
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1751 » by Cookies4Life » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:15 am

dakomish23 wrote:
EricAnderson wrote:We traded away KP to free up space that may be used on nothing now.

Gave away a promising young player/huge asset for a couple of first round picks that won’t evsn be that good a picks


We can take some solace in knowing the organization at least put themselves in a good position after screwing things up royally. They tanked while playing the kids (at least some of them) & got space for two top tier guys. Who knows? Maybe they’ll finally (FINALLY) use cap space to gain assets / prospects.

Maybe we won’t get the results we all hoped (idc what anyone says, you’re going to be hyped if we land two top tier FAs) this year, but this gives me some hope that they can again put themselves in a good position to strike.

Maybe that time, things do fall into place.


The real issue is that poster suffers from the typical delusional Knicks fan syndrome- having a ridiculous sense of self entitlement as if Durant and 1 or 2 other superstars were a guarantee to come here.

It's terrible what happened to him last night but regardless of his injury I never thought it was some guarantee he'd be a Knick next season. I've been a fan of this team for 3 decades + now and I've learned to temper expectations a LONG time ago.

This is a multi billion dollar corporation that's getting prepared for one of- if not the most- important FA in the teams' history. I'd imagine our front office has contingency plans in place so before emotional posters such as that guy you responded to get all histrionic, they might as well wait and see how the summer plays out first before going into their typical diatribes.

This team has a bunch of young lottery talent on the roster and has 7 1st round picks in the next 5 years and a lot of cap space this summer. This team is definitely on the right path, the trajectory of success might be a little slower than some were hoping for but they're at least moving in the right direction now.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1752 » by evevale » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:17 am

I never wanted KD, and especially do not want Kyrie, but I absolutely hate to see this happen to him. The guy just wanted to play and help his team win a chip despite all the chickens in the media trying to take away from every achievement he's ever earned. It's all unfair and the fact that Toronto fans cheered when he went down just makes me angry.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1753 » by spree2kawhi » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:14 am

GONYK wrote:
EricAnderson wrote:We traded away KP to free up space that may be used on nothing now.

Gave away a promising young player/huge asset for a couple of first round picks that won’t evsn be that good a picks

He was leaving anyway. If he committed, we wouldn't have traded him.

Exactly. Plus, those moves were still great.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1754 » by VirginiaKnickFan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:30 am

FKF wrote:
bleedblue3303 wrote:
Oscirus wrote:How many people have been coming to the Knicks according to the media that never came?




I can tell you he was coming. Believe me or not. I know for a fact. He was coming.


These posts are worth **** without backup. And by NBA rules, no one can make such statement prior to July 1 anyway. If the Knicks thought free agency started in November, they're stupid. If they thought last night's injury affected them, even more stupid.

Number one, the Knicks had/have equal chances to sign KD, as the Nets or Clippers. That's in a scenario he does leave San Francisco.
Number two, even if Durant signs in NY, and even healthy, it has been proven times and times again in the NBA, that one player cannot and doesn't make the impact. The Pelicans have had Anthony Davis for years. Losing squad. The Lakers signed LeBron, missed the play-offs. Shall I go further ? Durant has been WCF with Westbrook and Harden. He's been NBA champs with Curry, Thompson and Green. Who can he compete with in NY ? Even if you get Kyrie, who's the frontline ? who's in the starting lineup ? where's the bench ?

It is a TEAM culture and plan which will eventually restore the Knicks to higher standards.
That's what most folks in the United States fail to understand. The Knicks can sign Durant, and STILL remain in the lottery. So they shouldn't ever feel KD's injury impacts their plans. It doesn't. What they should be concerned with, is their draft picks, their coaching staff, and their coming up training camps.

If they had spent half the time they spent lobbying for KD, on trying to grow the players they already own, people would see where they're going, and people would want to come and join. They don't understand that.
For years, they didn't have cap space, they were the last franchise to properly understand the CBA. Now they have cap space, they promote it like it is enough to build a winner. Ask Gregg Popovich or Pat Riley, if cap space is enough to build a winner.

Look at how the Warriors and Raptors built themselves. How many years did it take for these teams to compete at a higher level, then at a higher level, then a higher level, now up to contending. The Knicks are soooooo far away from contending, it's not even funny anymore and I don't know where to start to explain. I swear they could get Curry and Thompson, this summer, and still struggle to make the play-offs with such a dysfunctional organization Steve Kerr didn't want to touch, even with his old coach and friend if the upper office.

And y'all buy the Jim Dolan Kool Aid. Amazing how this owner keeps his crowd to buy, and to buy, and to buy again and ever all the BS moves and plans his Knicks have had in two decades. The owner is not just the guy who pays the money. That's another ridiculous thing to believe. That is what Dolan wants you to believe, since he'll always be capable of doing so.

The owner is the top of the franchise, the top of the culture. They all talk about how great the owners are in Golden State. And how bad she is in Lala Land since papa died. Explain why Mike D'Antoni does well only outside of NY and LA. Mike could surely explain you why, without microphones.

Open your eyes. I have wasted 20 yrs of my life hoping for my Knicks with Jim Dolan on top. Dolan has wasted the legacies of some of this game's greatness who happened to work for him. I've stopped worrying and I managed to understand Dolan always finds a way to screw up. I feel so much better now!


I understand and agree with your frustration with Dolan, but NBA owners rarely sell their teams so that's an uncontrollable issue. You have to hope the Knicks FO is competent enough and stays the course with their rebuild to finally turn the corner on building a team that can compete.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1755 » by spree2kawhi » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:32 am

Now that KD might not come, I really hope Knicks fans can appreciate Durant's greatness anyway. Bashing him was always idiotic and we now see where this has led.

Would you still offer him the max this summer?
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1756 » by K-DOT » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:17 am

So, if it is an achilles, that leads me to believe his 1st injury was legit, at least more serious than the Warriors were letting on

I'm out on him, you just don't gamble on achilles injuries. You can count on one hand the number of guys who come back from an achilles and are even remotely close to what they used to be, it's possible he's still KD when he comes back, but super unlikely

Which means we should be out of the AD race. I thought we would be better waiting until KD got here to sign him, but if it is an achilles, then that's not much to pair with AD, and while Kawhi and AD would be a great pairing, nobody knows where Kawhi ends up. Yeah, you could argue that we have a stronger case for him with AD, but at the same time, that's not a certainty either, and we end up trading for AD and signing like, Middleton and Harris or something. Who are fine players, but not enough to take us over, even with AD.

If AD isn't traded before free agency, and Kawhi signs here, obviously that changes everything. But all reports say the Pelicans want a deal done by draft night

I just feel bad for KD. Especially being cheered for getting injured, that's classless
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Keita Bates-Diop
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1757 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:19 am

3toheadmelo wrote:I been a KD hater ever since he joined Golden State but I salute him for giving it all when his team needed him the most.


he REALLY shouldn't have done that. kountry wayne prophesied it.
RIP magnumt

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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1758 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:22 am

ny-n-md wrote:https://streamable.com/gvj6z
It looks like he tore his Achilles


damn
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1759 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:41 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:We should all be breathing sighs of relief ... except for shammgod who's probably having a heart attack-ack-ack-ack-ack-ack.


you oughta know by now.
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Re: Around the NBA - 2019 NBA Finals Edition 

Post#1760 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:47 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
Read on Twitter


LOVE this man
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