Offseason Thread Continued - Atlanta Got Crabbes and We're Panicking

[knicks9784]

We’re cursed simple put.
Everyone out here saying “oh let’s rebuild” so quickly without any type of mourning is incredible. Doesn’t sound like you wanted Durant in the first place.
This isn’t losing Zion, losing Zion was math and the math wasn’t in our favor.
Kevin Durant, the best player in the world, intended to sign the Knicks this offseason and he tore his Achilles in the NBA finals.
We were there - we almost did it. We were about to turn the corner from ”imcompetent” knicks.

nope. didn't. would rather build long term success for the franichse, not just rooting for one player.


and kawhi is better than durant.

Have you not been following? The raptors went and acquired on the same tier as Durant and are on the brink of a championship. The championship window is open for every team in the league right now.
We had that player coming to New York and a good possibility another player on that tier joining him. When will you ever get the opportunity again to put 2 top 5 players together? Ever???
Knicks would’ve been back and on the map. It’s not all about bottoming out and collecting assets. The problem with the Knicks has been credibility. That’s what we’ve struggled with the last 15 years. Credibility was coming and it would’ve been instant. Now we are in same place. Maybe our middling prospects improve and we make smart moves and gain the credibility over time. It would’ve been instant. Now we back to square one

Lol a little dramatic. Very far from square one though. It gets dicey here though as now we can **** it up big time if they waste the money, but there’s a decent young core with assets. Very different from the past. Last time we turned this into melo and mediocrity, we know not to do that again hopefully lol. Now it’s being patient and not blowing our load on kemba and Tobias.

[br7knicks]

We’re cursed simple put.
Everyone out here saying “oh let’s rebuild” so quickly without any type of mourning is incredible. Doesn’t sound like you wanted Durant in the first place.
This isn’t losing Zion, losing Zion was math and the math wasn’t in our favor.
Kevin Durant, the best player in the world, intended to sign the Knicks this offseason and he tore his Achilles in the NBA finals.
We were there - we almost did it. We were about to turn the corner from ”imcompetent” knicks.

nope. didn't. would rather build long term success for the franichse, not just rooting for one player.


and kawhi is better than durant.

Have you not been following? The raptors went and acquired on the same tier as Durant and are on the brink of a championship. The championship window is open for every team in the league right now.
We had that player coming to New York and a good possibility another player on that tier joining him. When will you ever get the opportunity again to put 2 top 5 players together? Ever???
Knicks would’ve been back and on the map. It’s not all about bottoming out and collecting assets. The problem with the Knicks has been credibility. That’s what we’ve struggled with the last 15 years. Credibility was coming and it would’ve been instant. Now we are in same place. Maybe our middling prospects improve and we make smart moves and gain the credibility over time. It would’ve been instant. Now we back to square one

well, i do think you make good points. like how the knicks have no credibility - although, i think that's been changing the last year or two.

i wasn't so much against the idea of signing KD, as i was against that meaning the knicks would then go and get kyrie, who would absolutely destroy this franchise and any positive culture/environment they'd try to establish, then trading the farm away for a 1 year rental player with injury issues (and i'm a big AD fan).

if kawhi signed with the knicks (not happening), then i'd be okay with them getting durant, then moving guys like knox and trier for the correct role players, or young players who don't suck at defense, or have a really low bballIQ.

and i don't think durant honestly considered NY. i'll never believe a top 10 player would want to come to NY until it happens. it hasn't happened in the last 15 years, and i don't foresee it happening soon - that's where i think you have a good point, that the knicks need to establish and create credibility. they're starting to do that with their rebuilding, and getting rid of **** players like KP

i just don't think you do that buy hoping to sign a top 5 player, losing out, and signing lesser players to max contracts.

[moocow007]

I knew something was off. It was an exciting day of posting.
King Ken showed up with gifts of strong AD rumors.
The forum was jumping.
Confidence was high.
The Kawhi rumors still circulated in the background, in spite of some attempts to cast rain on it.
Then last night.

Yesterday was the brief high, today the long crash.
Crack Knicks.
or
Bipolar Knicks.

Seriously changes the dynamic. Going from KD/AD now to RJ/Kev. I was looking forward MSG to be thunderous every game with them running the show.

I mean it could’ve been worse and happened next year after signing with us. We do have our young assets, so it’s not like we don’t have anything. I trust Perry making the right moves for this organization. But man I really wanted to compete for a title for the next 3-4 years.

Yep that's a good way to look at it.

As it is, looks like he should have just shut it down instead of coming back to try and help his team off the brink.

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[br7knicks]

Wonder if they’d consider giving him 2 year deal with a team option on year 3..
the credibility of having Durant on this team might be worth the cap hit. Continue to rebuild as he recovers from injury. And then hope in 2020 he is fully recovered and your treasure trove of assets is more greatly improved to make a run in 2020.

i'm actually not against that idea.

a 2 year deal with 2nd year being a team option. having a place holder like durant for that first year would prevent knicks from maxing out a guy like kyrie, or someone else who won't produce wins, and would destroy the team internally.

Someone with CBA knowledge, is it possible to structure something with a player option for year 2 and for year 3 there being a team option or non-guaranteed year?

i thought that's what lebron has been doing, those 1+1 deals?

[Sark]

He's never going to get back to being an All Star. Give it up already.

[br7knicks]

nope. didn't. would rather build long term success for the franichse, not just rooting for one player.


and kawhi is better than durant.

Have you not been following? The raptors went and acquired on the same tier as Durant and are on the brink of a championship. The championship window is open for every team in the league right now.
We had that player coming to New York and a good possibility another player on that tier joining him. When will you ever get the opportunity again to put 2 top 5 players together? Ever???
Knicks would’ve been back and on the map. It’s not all about bottoming out and collecting assets. The problem with the Knicks has been credibility. That’s what we’ve struggled with the last 15 years. Credibility was coming and it would’ve been instant. Now we are in same place. Maybe our middling prospects improve and we make smart moves and gain the credibility over time. It would’ve been instant. Now we back to square one

Lol a little dramatic. Very far from square one though. It gets dicey here though as now we can **** it up big time if they waste the money, but there’s a decent young core with assets. Very different from the past. Last time we turned this into melo and mediocrity, we know not to do that again hopefully lol. Now it’s being patient and not blowing our load on kemba and Tobias.

+1000000000000000000000000000

that's why i didn't hate his idea of signing durant to a max deal, as long as it's 1+1 with a team option. giving durant a max deal to take up next year's salary would help prevent the knicks from signing dumb players like kyrie, or doing dumb things like maxing out kemba, tobias, etc.

[blanko]

Let’s not forget Kobe was 35 in 2013, the year he tore his tendon


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[Context]

What you guys are missing is that maybe KD’s body is breaking down which would be a bad thing if he was on a big contract in NY.

Just keep building and forget it unless he’s really not that injured — don’t know about why he did what he did but Myers’ appearance was theatrical and bordering on bizarre.

It doesn’t all add up does it.

Some of us suggested that it was already torn and this second scene was staged...

[br7knicks]

What you guys are missing is that maybe KD’s body is breaking down which would be a bad thing if he was on a big contract in NY.

Just keep building and forget it unless he’s really not that injured — don’t know about why he did what he did but Myers’ appearance was theatrical and bordering on bizarre.

It doesn’t all add up does it.

Some of us suggested that it was already torn and this second scene was staged...

easy...alex jones

[Sark]

Let’s not forget Kobe was 35 in 2013, the year he tore his tendon


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No one forgot. Makes no difference. It's the most brutal and worst injury for a basketball player. Your body changes when your Achilles tears. He won't be the same player.


On a scale from 1 to 100, an ACL is like a 40. An Achilles is 100.

[br7knicks]

Let’s not forget Kobe was 35 in 2013, the year he tore his tendon


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No one forgot. Makes no difference. It's the most brutal and worst injury for a basketball player. Your body changes when your Achilles tears. He won't be the same player.


On a scale from 1 to 100, an ACL is like a 40. An Achilles is 100.

didn't cousins tear his achilles? he doesn't look the same, but he doesn't look bad for minute restriction. then again, he's on the best team in the NBA, so he's not the focus of defenses.

[gavran]

This is why you don't have the lottery before the season is freaking over. You cannot unrig it now....

[Sark]

Let’s not forget Kobe was 35 in 2013, the year he tore his tendon


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No one forgot. Makes no difference. It's the most brutal and worst injury for a basketball player. Your body changes when your Achilles tears. He won't be the same player.


On a scale from 1 to 100, an ACL is like a 40. An Achilles is 100.

didn't cousins tear his achilles? he doesn't look the same, but he doesn't look bad for minute restriction. then again, he's on the best team in the NBA, so he's not the focus of defenses.

Cousins sucks. His lift is shot.

[Jscratch1200]

KD's injury kinda shows how fragile a big 3 team without depth would've been. If we got a team of KD, KI, and AD with zero depth (trading all our youth); if any of the 3 go down like KD just did, we would be hard pressed to beat a legitimate playoff team.

The Warriors are struggling with the Raptors, and they have Curry, Klay, Green and Boogie still.

[Knicksfan20]

Guys, its time to abort from our Plan A which was signing 2 max FAs and/or getting AD. No other max FA is coming here to pair with a Durant who will likely not even be present in the first year (and who knows how he will be when he comes back). AD won't resign here long term with so many question marks and we'll lose all our assets in the process. It's just not worth it.

It is time for us to walk away from the pipe dream and go to Plan B:

Assets

RJ Barrett
Mitchell Robinson
Top 5 Pick in 2020 Draft
Kevin Knox
Dennis Smith Jr.
Frank Ntilikina
Damyean Dotson
Alonzo Trier
Mavs 2021
Mavs 2023 lottery protected

+ potentially 4 1st round picks we can extract from having ~70 mil cap space. Absorb bad 1 year contracts from teams that are either trying to a) get under the salary cap for a signing or b) get under the luxury cap to avoid taxes

Potential Targets

1. Chandler Parsons, Grizzlies, 25 mil
2. Danilo Gallinari, Clippers, 22.6 mil
3. Evan Turner, Blazers, 18.6 mil
4. Tristan Thompson, Cavs, 18.5 mil
5. Reggie Jackson, Pistons, 18.1 mil
6. Bismack Biyombo, Hornets, 17.0mil
7. Timofey Mozgov, Magic, 16.2mil
8. Brandon Knight, Cavaliers, 15.6 mil
9. Ian Mahimi, Wizards, 15.5 mil
10. Jordan Clarkson, Cavaliers, 13.4 mil
11. Solomon Hill, Pelicans, 12.7 mil
12. Courtney Lee, Mavs, 12 mil
13. Meyers Leonard, Blazers, 11.2 mil
14. Maurice Harkless, Blazers, 11.0 mil
15. John Henson, Cavs, 10.4 mil
16. Markelle Fultz, Magic, 9.7 mil (with team option for following year)
17. Jon Leur, Pistons, 9.5 mil
18. CJ Miles, Grizzlies, 8.7 mil

Using the Nets-Hawks trade as the gold standard, each 15-20 mil should net us around a lottery protected 1st.

The question is who is realistic? I can definitely see Clippers trying to free up even more space by dumping Gallo. I can see Blazers trading any of Turner, Leonard,Harkless to get under luxury, esp with the albatross contract Lillard is about to get. Same with the Hornets (Biyombo) with Kembas mega contract. Pelicans have been trying to trade Solomon Hill for a while it seems and Wizards (Mahimi) can use some salary relief with Walls mega contract kicking in. Thoughts?

How many of those 18 you listed would you honestly want on the Knicks roster? And in what ways any of those would make NYK a contender in the East. Gallo and TT could be good additions to an already solid team, but that is all I can think of.

Its not about us contending, its about us getting additional draft picks for taking on bad contracts. None of those are players who are going to lead us to the playoffs, but they definitely can help us get more assets and help better build our team for the future. And we will get to suck again next year and have another potential top 5 pick.

[Teal25]

We all know every GM will still give KD the max but I think he will opt in. This will be a true testament to the Knicks front office. They shouldn’t max out anyone other than KD not named Kawhi.They should be on the phone now offering their cap space for picks.

[Juco24]

He's never going to get back to being an All Star. Give it up already.

I'd be willing to take a bet on that... we're not talking about someone like Wesley Matthews who was never an all-star. We're talking about arguably the best player in the game right now who doesn't rely solely on his athleticism. Nique was 32 when he suffered a similar injury, came back within the same calendar year and barely missed a beat.

Medicine & rehab are far more advanced today than back then - Kevin Durant will be an all-star again. And I'm seriously willing to bet on that. Pro athletes (especially the great ones) are built differently.

[Traveyknicks23]

We all know every GM will still give KD the max but I think he will opt in. This will be a true testament to the Knicks front office. They shouldn’t max out anyone other than KD not named Kawhi.They should be on the phone now offering their cap space for picks.

Fck no I want nothing to do with those **** ass contracts

[newyorker4ever]

The way Bob Meyers explained it made it seem that KD was not aware that anything was torn prior to tonight. Can KD trust their medical staff ever again?

I think we know what kd is going to do not going to trust the warrior he is going to use his own doctors the second time around. He is going to get advice from his agent and from his family who to trust, but why waste your cap money for 4 years when he is not going to play for the entire year.

because we aren't in a position to turn down a talent like KD even if he isn't hurt. There are only a few players worth giving the max. We can still develop the young guys and let KD rehab at the same time. Your investing into KD regardless.

I don't know what to think about signing or not signing KD right now but for your argument if the Knicks did strike out in free agency and keep rebuilding then we would of had to spend like $60 mil of our cap next year anyway just to satisfy the cap spending so if you believe that KD will come back from this injury just fine like many players do then why not use some of that $60 mil on KD and wait out a year with him?

[Traveyknicks23]

Guys, its time to abort from our Plan A which was signing 2 max FAs and/or getting AD. No other max FA is coming here to pair with a Durant who will likely not even be present in the first year (and who knows how he will be when he comes back). AD won't resign here long term with so many question marks and we'll lose all our assets in the process. It's just not worth it.

It is time for us to walk away from the pipe dream and go to Plan B:

Assets

RJ Barrett
Mitchell Robinson
Top 5 Pick in 2020 Draft
Kevin Knox
Dennis Smith Jr.
Frank Ntilikina
Damyean Dotson
Alonzo Trier
Mavs 2021
Mavs 2023 lottery protected

+ potentially 4 1st round picks we can extract from having ~70 mil cap space. Absorb bad 1 year contracts from teams that are either trying to a) get under the salary cap for a signing or b) get under the luxury cap to avoid taxes

Potential Targets

1. Chandler Parsons, Grizzlies, 25 mil
2. Danilo Gallinari, Clippers, 22.6 mil
3. Evan Turner, Blazers, 18.6 mil
4. Tristan Thompson, Cavs, 18.5 mil
5. Reggie Jackson, Pistons, 18.1 mil
6. Bismack Biyombo, Hornets, 17.0mil
7. Timofey Mozgov, Magic, 16.2mil
8. Brandon Knight, Cavaliers, 15.6 mil
9. Ian Mahimi, Wizards, 15.5 mil
10. Jordan Clarkson, Cavaliers, 13.4 mil
11. Solomon Hill, Pelicans, 12.7 mil
12. Courtney Lee, Mavs, 12 mil
13. Meyers Leonard, Blazers, 11.2 mil
14. Maurice Harkless, Blazers, 11.0 mil
15. John Henson, Cavs, 10.4 mil
16. Markelle Fultz, Magic, 9.7 mil (with team option for following year)
17. Jon Leur, Pistons, 9.5 mil
18. CJ Miles, Grizzlies, 8.7 mil

Using the Nets-Hawks trade as the gold standard, each 15-20 mil should net us around a lottery protected 1st.

The question is who is realistic? I can definitely see Clippers trying to free up even more space by dumping Gallo. I can see Blazers trading any of Turner, Leonard,Harkless to get under luxury, esp with the albatross contract Lillard is about to get. Same with the Hornets (Biyombo) with Kembas mega contract. Pelicans have been trying to trade Solomon Hill for a while it seems and Wizards (Mahimi) can use some salary relief with Walls mega contract kicking in. Thoughts?

How many of those 18 you listed would you honestly want on the Knicks roster? And in what ways any of those would make NYK a contender in the East. Gallo and TT could be good additions to an already solid team, but that is all I can think of.

Its not about us contending, its about us getting additional draft picks for taking on bad contracts. None of those are players who are going to lead us to the playoffs, but they definitely can help us get more assets and help better build our team for the future. And we will get to suck again next year and have another potential top 5 pick.

Nah son we were the worst team in the league and still ended up picking 3rd and suns fell out the top 5 and were just as bad.relying on the lottery is dead