Offseason Thread Continued - Atlanta Got Crabbes and We're Panicking

[BeagleBoss]

As of now, I’m still leaning towards giving him the max. The reward outweighs the risk.

But you’re punting two years. Not sure this organization has this level of patience for such a small possibility that he comes back at least 80-90%.

But that's the reality. KD is not going to be 80-90% at 32 coming off an achilles injury. He will never ever be the same. You're looking at the Lakers version of Glen Rice.

[shtolky]

As of now, I’m still leaning towards giving him the max. The reward outweighs the risk.

But you’re punting two years. Not sure this organization has this level of patience for such a small possibility that he comes back at least 80-90%.

Why two years? Are you including this past season?

I'm very conflicted about giving him the max. I am sure if we did offer him a deal it would have injury clauses like Embiid has. I'm not sure it's smart to give him the full years/max, though if we knew he would come back to 80-90% as you said, you almost have to do it. Achilles injuries are no joke but the recovery time varies so wildly between players.

[newyorker4ever]

We'd need some things to fall in to place but it's possible that this works out for us, assuming KD returns to a 85-90% of the player he was.

KD opts in. AD is traded to somewhere besides LAL. Both are UFA next summer.

We sign both without giving up any assets. Add Barrett this summer and another Top 7 pick next summer.

That would pretty much be a dream scenario to happen for us but are you sure you know what board you're on? This is the New York Knicks board not GSW or Miami or any other team besides the Knicks...

[iLLmatic860]

Atleast we in a good situation either way

Ill do a build around prime AD or develop youth.

[2010]

Or if you’re a real Knicks fan you can remember that signing players who have experienced devastating injuries in the past has never worked for the franchise and to stop making the same stupid decisions over and over again.

Rebuild >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Achilles Tear Durant

Explain to me how rooting for the Raptors to prevail would help our offseason.

I don’t know if it will hurt or help. I don’t think it matters at all.

My point is more about not signing Durant to a max deal, as you seem to be advocating for. It hasn’t worked for us in the past and it won’t work now. I’d rather go in a different direction.

The direction was picked long ago. You can't turn back now. Relationships are at stake. It's a business. If anyone turns back it would have to be KD. But if Warriors climb out the grave without him he will be feeling a need to be loved again.

[dakomish23]

As of now, I’m still leaning towards giving him the max. The reward outweighs the risk.

But you’re punting two years. Not sure this organization has this level of patience for such a small possibility that he comes back at least 80-90%.

But that's the reality. KD is not going to be 80-90% at 32 coming off an achilles injury. He will never ever be the same. You're looking at the Lakers version of Glen Rice.

Maybe. Or maybe not.

Give him ample time to recover and find out.

[mpharris36]

the plan slightly changes but I still think you can sign KD and rebuild. Instead of using the other 30+ million to either sign a 2nd star or trade all our assets for AD. You sign KD and use the remaining cap space to take on a couple bad 1 year contracts and add more future picks.

There are absolutely no FA worth signing in 2020 which is why I have no issues signing KD now and letting him miss the season because we would continue our rebuild and then possibly go into 2020 with a rehabbed KD and even more assets and youth (maybe even AD comes as a FA now) because we have the space.

Then you trade for a 3rd star with the additional assets and have.

KD free agent in 2019
AD free agent in 2020
All our youth and picks to trade for a 3rd star if we need to.
+ most likely another high lottery pick

Just the Knicks history of signing/acquiring stars when it's too late makes me not want KD at all now if he did fully tear his achilles. I don't have faith that he'll come back the same player in that instance

thats a fair point but it might be a risk worth taking because what else is the short term plan for the organization? If you tank again next year and rebuild with youth...whos the FA in 2020 we are targeting with just young players coming off another bad year? There are no good FA's until Giannis in 2021. Now you are expecting the front office to suck for 2 more years in hope they either hit big in the lottery or hope Giannis wants to somehow play in NY after the team amasses loss after loss?

To be fair if the knicks have another bad year people will talk about firing Perry/Mills/Fizdale its just the way of the NBA. It's nice to treat this like a video game but this is a business and the knicks now they need to put a product on the NBA floor eventually this idea they will keep punting season after season until they land a generational talent in the draft is just naive at this point. The rebuild is fine but at some point you need to land big time talent to win. We have zero big time talent right now.

[2010]

Stop with the Kawhi talk. He's never ever coming here. 0% chance. Not even 1% chance.

Beagle, let me preface this by saying I like you. Always have. Cuz you are a straight shooter. You don't do the cute chit.

So with all due respect, I ask how are you quantifying those percentages? What is the basis of your confidence?

Much respect 2010. The feeling is mutual. How do I quantify those percentages? I look at the last 20 years.

I have no confidence.

But seriously, I don't see how Kawhi, coming off an NBA Finals and possibly a championship, comes here to play for this media and this city. He's probably one of the most anti-NYC athletes.

What if I told you he loves the city and Dennis fks wit Scott Perry?

[shtolky]

the plan slightly changes but I still think you can sign KD and rebuild. Instead of using the other 30+ million to either sign a 2nd star or trade all our assets for AD. You sign KD and use the remaining cap space to take on a couple bad 1 year contracts and add more future picks.

There are absolutely no FA worth signing in 2020 which is why I have no issues signing KD now and letting him miss the season because we would continue our rebuild and then possibly go into 2020 with a rehabbed KD and even more assets and youth (maybe even AD comes as a FA now) because we have the space.

Then you trade for a 3rd star with the additional assets and have.

KD free agent in 2019
AD free agent in 2020
All our youth and picks to trade for a 3rd star if we need to.
+ most likely another high lottery pick

Just the Knicks history of signing/acquiring stars when it's too late makes me not want KD at all now if he did fully tear his achilles. I don't have faith that he'll come back the same player in that instance

thats a fair point but it might be a risk worth taking because what else is the short term plan for the organization? If you tank again next year and rebuild with youth...whos the FA in 2020 we are targeting with just young players coming off another bad year? There are no good FA's until Giannis in 2021. Now you are expecting the front office to suck for 2 more years in hope they either hit big in the lottery or hope Giannis wants to somehow play in NY after the team amasses loss after loss?

To be fair if the knicks have another bad year people will talk about firing Perry/Mills/Fizdale its just the way of the NBA. It's nice to treat this like a video game but this is a business and the knicks now they need to put a product on the NBA floor eventually this idea they will keep punting season after season until they land a generational talent in the draft is just naive at this point. The rebuild is fine but at some point you need to land big time talent to win. We have zero big time talent right now.

The two alternatives to signing KD now are keep building with the youth, go super young as we have and develop them, or, throw the kitchen sink at AD, get the superstar you need to win a title and build around him smartly, unlike they did with Melo. Would AD even want to be here alone? At this point I'd go the conservative route and build with picks and hope to pull off a trade with our assets. I have a feeling Perry is going to want to acquire AD, which I don't hate but I don't like nearly as much as I did before the KD injury.

[BeagleBoss]

Beagle, let me preface this by saying I like you. Always have. Cuz you are a straight shooter. You don't do the cute chit.

So with all due respect, I ask how are you quantifying those percentages? What is the basis of your confidence?

Much respect 2010. The feeling is mutual. How do I quantify those percentages? I look at the last 20 years.

I have no confidence.

But seriously, I don't see how Kawhi, coming off an NBA Finals and possibly a championship, comes here to play for this media and this city. He's probably one of the most anti-NYC athletes.

What if I told you he loves the city and Dennis fks wit Scott Perry?

Don't get me wrong, I'd pick up Kawhi at the airport and carry him to MSG myself if he wanted to come here. I just don't see it. I hope you're right. But until something good happens to this franchise, I have a hard time believing it will.

[newyorker4ever]

We'd need some things to fall in to place but it's possible that this works out for us, assuming KD returns to a 85-90% of the player he was.

KD opts in. AD is traded to somewhere besides LAL. Both are UFA next summer.

We sign both without giving up any assets. Add Barrett this summer and another Top 7 pick next summer.

So he tears his Achilles, misses a season, comes back at 32 and you think he'll be at 85-90%?

That is the most optimistic post I've read here. Achilles injuries are a LOT different from the more common injuries such as an ACL tear. I would be hesitant to max him if he was 26 years old and coming off this injury. Him being 31 already with this potential injury is a major, major red flag.

14 players that came back from achilles injuries since 1992.

[SARGO127]

I’m still all on board with signing Russell and Randle.

Nets sign Kyrie and Butler, renouncing Russell.

Give Russell the max (around 23 mil), sign Randle to 4/80.

[F N 11]

Atleast we in a good situation either way

Ill do a build around prime AD or develop youth.

Flexibility

[King Ken]

Just my opinion, KD will get a full max offer from ATL, DAL, UTA, IND, MIL off the rip. Not sure about Brooklyn, NY, GS or LA teams but I am guessing they would too. I just don't know.

[Stannis]

It's gonna be funny when we are debating if we should give him the max or not; and then he just resigns with the Warriors anyways.

[F N 11]

I think i'll feel much better once RJ is a knick.

[King Ken]

It's gonna be funny when we are debating if we should give him the max or not; and then he just resigns with the Warriors anyways.

They can offer the most money. Facts!

[VCBC]

Beagle, let me preface this by saying I like you. Always have. Cuz you are a straight shooter. You don't do the cute chit.

So with all due respect, I ask how are you quantifying those percentages? What is the basis of your confidence?

Much respect 2010. The feeling is mutual. How do I quantify those percentages? I look at the last 20 years.

I have no confidence.

But seriously, I don't see how Kawhi, coming off an NBA Finals and possibly a championship, comes here to play for this media and this city. He's probably one of the most anti-NYC athletes.

What if I told you he loves the city and Dennis fks wit Scott Perry?

This is 1 thing I gleaned from my dinner with Bob Delaney and his wife Billie. Wouldn't say it's the worst kept secret but it's close.

My takeaway was that it was more probable that Kawhi comes to MSG than KD pre injury

[isiah_thomas]

The Knicks can not max out guys for the sake of spending monwy. not interested in a mediocre team. No long term deals on middling players

[mpharris36]

Just the Knicks history of signing/acquiring stars when it's too late makes me not want KD at all now if he did fully tear his achilles. I don't have faith that he'll come back the same player in that instance

thats a fair point but it might be a risk worth taking because what else is the short term plan for the organization? If you tank again next year and rebuild with youth...whos the FA in 2020 we are targeting with just young players coming off another bad year? There are no good FA's until Giannis in 2021. Now you are expecting the front office to suck for 2 more years in hope they either hit big in the lottery or hope Giannis wants to somehow play in NY after the team amasses loss after loss?

To be fair if the knicks have another bad year people will talk about firing Perry/Mills/Fizdale its just the way of the NBA. It's nice to treat this like a video game but this is a business and the knicks now they need to put a product on the NBA floor eventually this idea they will keep punting season after season until they land a generational talent in the draft is just naive at this point. The rebuild is fine but at some point you need to land big time talent to win. We have zero big time talent right now.

The two alternatives to signing KD now are keep building with the youth, go super young as we have and develop them, or, throw the kitchen sink at AD, get the superstar you need to win a title and build around him smartly, unlike they did with Melo. Would AD even want to be here alone? At this point I'd go the conservative route and build with picks and hope to pull off a trade with our assets. I have a feeling Perry is going to want to acquire AD, which I don't hate but I don't like nearly as much as I did before the KD injury.

Acquiring AD at this moment should be completely off the table at this point (unless miraculously Kawhi comes - which I doubt).

You either rebuild with KD in your back pocket and hope he returns near 100%

or

You either rebuild and just take on a ton of bad contracts and hope to eventually trade for a top 5-10 player.

Knicks still need that franchise changing player.