Offseason Thread Continued - Atlanta Got Crabbes and We're Panicking

[newyorker4ever]

anthony davis is injury prone. we cant waste our assets on somebody that averages 65 games a year. plus his game is outdated. he cant shoot the 3 well at all. that mid range game is great and all but nobody is scared of that. this a 3 point league.

Yet, Kawhi Leonard is one game from winning an NBA championship while scoring most of his points from the mid-range. Steph and Klay are 2 of the best 3 point shooters in league history for crying out loud. This doesnt mean the Knicks have to build their team based on just 3 pointers.

The 3 point shooting can come from other areas so just because AD doesn't shoot the 3 point shot well he still can shoot it enough to stretch the floor because defenders aren't just gonna stand back if he has the ball behind the 3 point line because he has hit plenty of 3 point shots. All we would need to do is add shooters at the guard and wing positions.

[thebuzzardman]

If/when the Knicks offer KD the full max players would take notice. That's all I'ma say.

Now carry on with your "xxx is not coming here" ... "xxx is not happening" ... "we have no shot" ... etc.

Let chit play out ladies.

I'm hoping your predictions turn out right.

But a main one for you revolves around Kawhi. Which would be awesome. Who I'd want here more than KD.

But if we combine your rumors with King Ken and Knicks signing Achilles KD, there's no money left for Kawhi. Assuming his rumor of AD getting traded at the draft are true.

I'm sure a lot of players would respect the Knicks for giving KD money and hope to see him well and play with AD, but in a bottom line business where most guys try to maximize their $ while they can still play, how many ring chasers and how good, are joining the team?
I guess it's about the same as would happen if the Knicks traded for AD under King Kens scenario, retained a few worthwhile players.

Talking to myself now - I guess they aren't mutually exclusive - players joining the Knicks. Just not Kawhi.

You are forgetting the trade can be agreed upon in principle. Then 30 days after the #3 pick is signed it would be official. Griffin would just have to let the Knicks draft his preferred player for him. It's really that simple. The trade doesn't HAVE to be official by the draft. Griffin just wants to coax everyone's best offer with no dragging of feet well into free agency. #issabusiness

Thanks. Good point. I forgot about that, and it's pretty easy to remember. I should have remembered that.

I'd hope that was always the scenario. In fact, Griffin would be being sort of pr*ck if he insisted otherwise.

[dakomish23]

The only free agent I want is Randle. 24 years old and is improving every year.

Watch on YouTube

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1633382&p=60116939&hilit=randle#p60116939

I've been on this train for a longggggggggg time but I liked him better next to KP b/c of the stretch element. If Mitch adds that, then it could def work.

[3toheadmelo]

DSJ
RJ Hampton
RJ Barrett
Knox
Mitch

[taj2133]

Read on Twitter

[F N 11]

They arent referring to the Melo deal exactly. They are referring to the difficulty building around Melo after trading nuff role players.
Wilson Chandler and Gallo were legit pieces to a pretty damn good Nuggets team post Melo. I dont wanna talk about this but Mitch, Knox, RJ, and DSJ who are all lottery picks (besides Mitch) have a chance to be really solid NBA players.

You make the AD trade and you have to bank of fuqing free agents coming here which is not guaranteed. This is what im trying to say. Control what you can control.

It's also not guaranteed that the young pieces we have will turn into anything. It's guaranteed that AD will play like a superstar. There is risk in trading for him and not trading for him. I actually think it's far more likely that FA's come to play with AD vs. the young players turning into studs.

Im not even talking about them turning into studs. Im saying you trade away flexibility in hopes. Sounds like the knicks thing of the past to do. AD is clutch sports im not banking on him staying here with his whole team in LA anyway.

[dakomish23]

Every player is different. Assuming that every player heals the same from every injury is naive.

not trying to use rose-colored glasses here, but KD could still be lethal off skill alone. he doesn't rely on athleticism to differentiate. so long as he can still move and keep up, he could be fine for a while.

Saw this on another board: Look at the history of achilles injuries to star players- especially older ones. KD is already 31. Kobe was a little older- but never recovered his star ability.

Dominique Wilkins was diminished after tearing his at 31- though admittedly, he was all about athleticism anyway.

Elton Brand never recovered from the injury and was a role player upon his return.

KD might come back and be solid - but the explosiveness that allowed him to blow by guys on the drive and beat guys on the jumper will not be there anymore. He won't be a max FA guy anymore. He knows it, his agent knows it- which is why he was being described as "white as a sheet" after the game- and the Knicks know it.

Hope this is wrong but not a pretty picture.

The only one on the Durant level of talent wise was Kobe and he was 34 turning 35 that summer.

I get what history says and I think me and JVG are expressing cautious optimism, not indifference to the profound effect this injury can have on the career.

[shtolky]

They arent referring to the Melo deal exactly. They are referring to the difficulty building around Melo after trading nuff role players.
Wilson Chandler and Gallo were legit pieces to a pretty damn good Nuggets team post Melo. I dont wanna talk about this but Mitch, Knox, RJ, and DSJ who are all lottery picks (besides Mitch) have a chance to be really solid NBA players.

You make the AD trade and you have to bank of fuqing free agents coming here which is not guaranteed. This is what im trying to say. Control what you can control.

It's also not guaranteed that the young pieces we have will turn into anything. It's guaranteed that AD will play like a superstar. There is risk in trading for him and not trading for him. I actually think it's far more likely that FA's come to play with AD vs. the young players turning into studs.

Im not even talking about them turning into studs. Im saying you trade away flexibility in hopes. Sounds like the knicks thing of the past to do. AD is clutch sports im not banking on him staying here with his whole team in LA anyway.

But that's the thing, you don't trade away flexibility because we still have loads of cap space after an AD deal and an overload of picks. We didn't have that last time with Melo. If we were left with no money to spend, and no picks, then I don't make the deal. But we have those two Dallas picks precisely for a move like this.

[F N 11]

Im done arguing about keeping the kids. People rather go the build your whole team with free agents route. I already posted and said the last 20 plus championship teams have a homegrown star player.

[K_ick_God]

I happen to have a good amount of faith in Knox. Maybe we hit with RJ. Dennis isn't too bad. Let's just roll it out and maybe sign some strategic FA's or a guy like Randle.

[2010]

Food for thought. It is well known Clutch/AD leaks to Shams and Griffin leaks to Woj.

Begley releases an article detailing Griffin wasn't enamored with the Knicks AD trade offer. Guess who Begley used to work directly under? Yup, Woj. Same contacts so Griffin is negotiating through the media via Begs here. Expect something from Woj again next. Then Shams will tweet or write something pro Knicks/Lakers.

[Capn'O]

Look at the two teams in the finals. Or the conference finals, for that matter.

None of them went the "Big 3" route where they cleared huge amount of cap or waited until they had drafted a superstar core to start building out. All built incrementally and made good use of the assets they had. Toronto got Kawhi by building up their pool. They acquired Kawhi with an all star and good role player, both of whom they drafted in the mid-lotto. Warriors built a champion core from mid-lottery players and second rounders. Blazers took on salary for the pick they got that yielded Lillard. Then they picked McCollum 10th and have tinkered until they had a conference finals ready team. Bucks got Giannis at Pick 15. Middleton in a trade. Brogdon in the 2nd round.

This idea that you have to grab stars before doing anything else is misguided. There are other ways to do it. Draft well, pick up good pieces and additional assets where you can, and build incrementally is a fine way to do it.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

It's also not guaranteed that the young pieces we have will turn into anything. It's guaranteed that AD will play like a superstar. There is risk in trading for him and not trading for him. I actually think it's far more likely that FA's come to play with AD vs. the young players turning into studs.

Im not even talking about them turning into studs. Im saying you trade away flexibility in hopes. Sounds like the knicks thing of the past to do. AD is clutch sports im not banking on him staying here with his whole team in LA anyway.

But that's the thing, you don't trade away flexibility because we still have loads of cap space after an AD deal and an overload of picks. We didn't have that last time with Melo. If we were left with no money to spend, and no picks, then I don't make the deal. But we have those two Dallas picks precisely for a move like this.

Depends what NO demands in a trade, it could include the Dallas picks.

[EricAnderson]

Im done arguing about keeping the kids. People rather go the build your whole team with free agents route. I already posted and said the last 20 plus championship teams have a homegrown star player.

The odds any of the kids we have become stars is slim to none

You know what’s won titles for as long as the nba has been alive? Top of the league players.

The idea that we wouldn’t sign or trade for these players to keep our own players who might not even be good nba players never mind Stars is extremely dumb.

[will34]

When is he having the MRI?

[G_K_F]

Im done arguing about keeping the kids. People rather go the build your whole team with free agents route. I already posted and said the last 20 plus championship teams have a homegrown star player.

The odds any of the kids we have become stars is slim to none

You know what’s won titles for as long as the nba has been alive? Top of the league players.

The idea that we wouldn’t sign or trade for these players to keep our own players who might not even be good nba players never mind Stars is extremely dumb.

Sure but trading for Anthony Davis now is dumb.

Are you planning to pair him with Kyrie or Kemba?

Would be a terrible idea any way you slice it.

[shtolky]

Im not even talking about them turning into studs. Im saying you trade away flexibility in hopes. Sounds like the knicks thing of the past to do. AD is clutch sports im not banking on him staying here with his whole team in LA anyway.

But that's the thing, you don't trade away flexibility because we still have loads of cap space after an AD deal and an overload of picks. We didn't have that last time with Melo. If we were left with no money to spend, and no picks, then I don't make the deal. But we have those two Dallas picks precisely for a move like this.

Depends what NO demands in a trade, it could include the Dallas picks.

I would assume so. If you give up RJ and the two Dallas picks, we still have all of our own picks going forward. We just remove the surplus.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

not trying to use rose-colored glasses here, but KD could still be lethal off skill alone. he doesn't rely on athleticism to differentiate. so long as he can still move and keep up, he could be fine for a while.

Saw this on another board: Look at the history of achilles injuries to star players- especially older ones. KD is already 31. Kobe was a little older- but never recovered his star ability.

Dominique Wilkins was diminished after tearing his at 31- though admittedly, he was all about athleticism anyway.

Elton Brand never recovered from the injury and was a role player upon his return.

KD might come back and be solid - but the explosiveness that allowed him to blow by guys on the drive and beat guys on the jumper will not be there anymore. He won't be a max FA guy anymore. He knows it, his agent knows it- which is why he was being described as "white as a sheet" after the game- and the Knicks know it.

Hope this is wrong but not a pretty picture.

The only one on the Durant level of talent wise was Kobe and he was 34 turning 35 that summer.

I get what history says and I think me and JVG are expressing cautious optimism, not indifference to the profound effect this injury can have on the career.

Looking at that table of the 14 who have come back from Achilles tears on a previous page (& it's hard to know if there were others who didn't come back), Dominique is the only one whose figures didn't fall off a cliff. I don't see much cause for cautious optimism - other than that KD was at such a high level that even falling off a cliff he'll still be serviceable. But it's really hard to believe he's be a max type player in the future.

[DowNY]

[EricAnderson]

Im done arguing about keeping the kids. People rather go the build your whole team with free agents route. I already posted and said the last 20 plus championship teams have a homegrown star player.

The odds any of the kids we have become stars is slim to none

You know what’s won titles for as long as the nba has been alive? Top of the league players.

The idea that we wouldn’t sign or trade for these players to keep our own players who might not even be good nba players never mind Stars is extremely dumb.

Sure but trading for Anthony Davis now is dumb.

Are you planning to pair him with Kyrie or Kemba?

Would be a terrible idea any way you slice it.

I agree now because of the KD thing.

I’m talking about people who pre KD going down didn’t want KD/Kyrie/AD because they wanted to keep our young player. That made zero sense