Offseason Thread Continued - Atlanta Got Crabbes and We're Panicking

[MrOrange]

Guys, its time to abort from our Plan A which was signing 2 max FAs and/or getting AD. No other max FA is coming here to pair with a Durant who will likely not even be present in the first year (and who knows how he will be when he comes back). AD won't resign here long term with so many question marks and we'll lose all our assets in the process. It's just not worth it.

It is time for us to walk away from the pipe dream and go to Plan B:

Assets

RJ Barrett
Mitchell Robinson
Top 5 Pick in 2020 Draft
Kevin Knox
Dennis Smith Jr.
Frank Ntilikina
Damyean Dotson
Alonzo Trier
Mavs 2021
Mavs 2023 lottery protected

+ potentially 4 1st round picks we can extract from having ~70 mil cap space. Absorb bad 1 year contracts from teams that are either trying to a) get under the salary cap for a signing or b) get under the luxury cap to avoid taxes

Potential Targets

1. Chandler Parsons, Grizzlies, 25 mil
2. Danilo Gallinari, Clippers, 22.6 mil
3. Evan Turner, Blazers, 18.6 mil
4. Tristan Thompson, Cavs, 18.5 mil
5. Reggie Jackson, Pistons, 18.1 mil
6. Bismack Biyombo, Hornets, 17.0mil
7. Timofey Mozgov, Magic, 16.2mil
8. Brandon Knight, Cavaliers, 15.6 mil
9. Ian Mahimi, Wizards, 15.5 mil
10. Jordan Clarkson, Cavaliers, 13.4 mil
11. Solomon Hill, Pelicans, 12.7 mil
12. Courtney Lee, Mavs, 12 mil
13. Meyers Leonard, Blazers, 11.2 mil
14. Maurice Harkless, Blazers, 11.0 mil
15. John Henson, Cavs, 10.4 mil
16. Markelle Fultz, Magic, 9.7 mil (with team option for following year)
17. Jon Leur, Pistons, 9.5 mil
18. CJ Miles, Grizzlies, 8.7 mil

Using the Nets-Hawks trade as the gold standard, each 15-20 mil should net us around a lottery protected 1st.

The question is who is realistic? I can definitely see Clippers trying to free up even more space by dumping Gallo. I can see Blazers trading any of Turner, Leonard,Harkless to get under luxury, esp with the albatross contract Lillard is about to get. Same with the Hornets (Biyombo) with Kembas mega contract. Pelicans have been trying to trade Solomon Hill for a while it seems and Wizards (Mahimi) can use some salary relief with Walls mega contract kicking in. Thoughts?

How many of those 18 you listed would you honestly want on the Knicks roster? And in what ways any of those would make NYK a contender in the East. Gallo and TT could be good additions to an already solid team, but that is all I can think of.

Its not about us contending, its about us getting additional draft picks for taking on bad contracts. None of those are players who are going to lead us to the playoffs, but they definitely can help us get more assets and help better build our team for the future. And we will get to suck again next year and have another potential top 5 pick.

Those guys will ruin your locker room faster than anyone spells draft contacts

[bigfnjoe96]

Not sure but him going to NY seems like big news. Means either the MRI is not clear or he will get surgery in NY.

Maybe the latter but then I expect to hear that the MRI shows a tear soon.

Or he's getting another opinion ala Kawhi

[NYKHardKnock]

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I think the Knicks & KD are both too invested regardless of the severity of the injury.

[dakomish23]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T2Eg_zvqNqQD_5TpE4Ns6xhElatXdLpYG1roZtRLyvE/edit?usp=sharing

From General board mod Smitty

Cap projections for every team

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Let's say we don't get any big free agents.

Let's then say Perry can swing a deal or two (similar to Atlanta) to take on salary for assets.

At that point, I'm willing to keep Mitch, Knox, RJ, and Frank as the young core. Dotson and Trier can be kept around, sure. Mario on a 1-year deal is fine too. Vonleh on a 1-year too. I'm not a huge DSJr fan so I'd look to deal him for a better fitting piece (PG or PF).

We could sign additional 1-year guys and try to find some steals in the draft again. It's not a bad process at all. Fight for the playoffs while the young guys develop and continue to add assets ala salary dumps. I wouldn't hate it. Could be fun.

Agree with a lot of this. I just think one has to choose between taking on picks&dumps or short term speculative contracts. I really don't see that if the Knicks do (or would have) end(ed) up with two max FAs that developing guys this on 1 year contracts served any purpose - so the same would be true going forward in the case of no big FAs.

[DowNY]

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[Richard4444]

If I were king of the forest, I would have been taking on salary with draft picks a long time ago with this team. I am not.

[..]

Yes - the FO decisions all appear so disconnected.


Vonleh, Mudiay & Hezonja for $12m. You could have used that space to try to do something. Kanter 18m. Maybe tradeable?

[Noah 18m. I still don't understand why/how the FO have fallen out so badly with 4 centres over the past year and a half, and why they couldn't salvage something from Noah. But that's a different and much discussed story.]

I can't buy the happy lovey get in good with agents and players stuff. How does it help? You give some guys a contract - but if not them then someone else gets them.

So, one way to paint the story is that maybe last off-season the FO thought that the team would be a lot better than they in fact turned out to be - that they'd be a few games out of the playoff spots come late-February/early-March and KP would come back and pull them in to 7th/8th seed. Then him and (a better version of) Hardaway could get some playoff experience - with the help of Kanter, Lee and some of the one year guys actually playing significantly, and then this summer sign a FA into the cap space created by stretching Noah to get a partner for KP and have (the better) Hardaway at a 3rd string - and maybe have space to resign Kanter or one of the one year players - or some other intermediate level player. And all the while develop Knox & Frank and hope something came of Dotson, Trier and Mitch.

But then they had a much worse team than they thought/hoped they would have and so those decisions, particularly over Vonleh, Mudiah, Hezonja and Kanter don't seem to make much sense.

So then the question would be why was the team so much worse than anticipated? Obviously that's some mixture of players not performing as well as expected/hoped, the coaching and the evaluations of the FO not being accurate?realistic? But seeing how that whole story could fit together is tricky.

I think the FO was hoping for a Vonleh, Mud and Mario to breakout. It would be plan B to sign them next season. If they adapt in the team and in the city, they could accept cheaper deals. Mud Cap Hold is not very high. Vonleh and Mario dont their Birds Rights. But we could promise them to give a raise after getting their birds rights. Kanter could sign with us for a cheap deal too.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

But there is no rehabbing this type of injury. We are not signing 'KD'. That 'KD' doesn't exist anymore. What you're signing is a washed up player who you hope can give you 50% of what that old player was. I don't think most realize how bad this injury is what it means. Would you give Bogdanovic the max? Cause that's the level of player KD is now.

If this comes out that it’s a strained Achilles or partial tear then you need to woosah cuz that KD would still be able to come back.

Did you see that zoomed-in slowmo? It really looked like you could see his whole achillies roll up to his calf.

Agreed. Obviously you have to wait for the doctors, but it really didn't look good.

[DowNY]

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[K_ick_God]

... To follow up on my post, basically you look at it like paying Kyrie and AD a premium to sign and you get KD as a third scorer at the worst. Like paying KI and AD 50 mil a year instead of 35 mil, if KD can't come back at all, or you pay them that premium and still get a helpful KD, though not quite as great.

At least worth thinking about. It's basically a more expensive version of Ainge's Plan A. So it's not an idea that you don't at least consider.

[malik959]

I never really felt that we were getting/ going after Durant hard this off season and felt that it was just the media blowing smoke. I said it a long time ago I can see the Knicks staying young selecting RJ Barrett in the draft, then going after D. Russ (especially if Kyrie goes to the Nets), getting Randle (he fits our time line), and than grabbing Jordan to continue his mentor-ship with Mitch.

Russell/DSJ
RJ/Frank/Trier
Knox/Wilson Chandler
Randle/Mario
Jordan/Mitch/K.O

Not a championship team, but a young team that has a lot of potential to build off. First year 5th/6th seed and increase each year.

[Stannis]

If this comes out that it’s a strained Achilles or partial tear then you need to woosah cuz that KD would still be able to come back.

Did you see that zoomed-in slowmo? It really looked like you could see his whole achillies roll up to his calf.

Agreed. Obviously you have to wait for the doctors, but it really didn't look good.

I remember David Beckham having a similar Achilles injury, where you could see it. And he came back six months later. Though, with his injury, he was still able to stand. Durant fell down after his, which was probably due to a combination of returning so soon and the injury itself.

Yea, I know. Different sport. But just saying, it looks like it all matters about the severity. My morning radio was trying to say this his injury will take 15 months.

[K_ick_God]

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I think the Knicks & KD are both too invested regardless of the severity of the injury.

Yeah it's a tough call but I think I am moving back to this position.

[SelbyCobra]

Hear me out, I just had a thought. Minor epihany or just some food for thought.

One of the reasons that AD apparently has the Knicks on his list over Boston is that we take care of players and are pro-player.

So if all 3 guys are still inclined to come, maybe you do go forward with it on the following:

1. You build on the pro-player rep and keep the plan of the Big 3 in place exactly as is.
2. KD gets the Max even with his tear.
3. Kyrie comes with AD and KD and with the first two, KD can do much less. You may have enough scoring with just those 2.
4. Sure it limits your cap flexibility for other pieces, but that's the price you pay.
5. KD comes back on his own timetable and maybe for the 2020 playoffs.
6. KD can be a complementary piece and come back slowly as the Knicks win some games, which they will.
7. Even more so, you have to keep some of the young guys now in an AD trade. Maybe even angle to keep Knox and instead give up other pieces if possible.
8. If you can't you still go ahead with KD and Kyrie and then just wait out AD and figure out how to sign him in 2020. AD will want to join now even more, because we're doing a solid to Kyrie and KD (you know what I mean). You basically put your eggs in the 2020-21 championship run. But you'll win games in 2019-20 and wait on KD.

This is not at all crazy. It's been going through my head, too. There are still a ton of avenues to success available.

[blanko]

Hey guys i think we all need a laugh today with everything going on, look at dwight howard new hair style he was on foxsports 1 today with chris carter

Watch on YouTube

Dude Dwight is a revolutionary game changer, he is the first 7foot power bottom in the nba.


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[DowNY]

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Say it louder for the people in the back Jalen

Hell of a promo cut by Jalen Rose

[NYKHardKnock]

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I think the Knicks & KD are both too invested regardless of the severity of the injury.

Yeah it's a tough call but I think I am moving back to this position.

Get to rebuild. Have KD around the team while he rehabs. RJ and Knox would benefit a lot having him around. Then he’ll be back for 2020, then they’ll be three years left for to prove he’s back. And even then we’ll likely have another top 5 pick under the wing.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea. We should still pursue.

[Apples]

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I think the Knicks & KD are both too invested regardless of the severity of the injury.

Knicks/Clippers/Nets

I doubt it's some random team like the Pacers that knew they weren't getting him to begin with.

[taj2133]

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[blanko]

Some really sad Knicks fans on this board. We committed to a rebuild last year all of sudden it KD or bust, it busted and now we're trashing our young talent.

Yes the Knicks won't be good but they will improve. We have a solid front office.

We should build to be good enough where free agent will help us as oppose to saving us.

No but the reality in the nba is that 4 quarters don’t make a dollar. You get the stars .


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