What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic?

[ezzzp]

Mo's is 9'7 5".

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and 225 lbs dude needs to eat

True, I think Kareem was close to Mo's size and wingspan.

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so did Zhou Qi 7-8 wingspan, 9-4.5 reach, 218 lbs

[basketballRob]

and 225 lbs dude needs to eat

True, I think Kareem was close to Mo's size and wingspan.

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so did Zhou Qi 7-8 wingspan, 9-4.5 reach, 218 lbs

Same standing reach as Vuc.

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[ezzzp]

True, I think Kareem was close to Mo's size and wingspan.

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so did Zhou Qi 7-8 wingspan, 9-4.5 reach, 218 lbs

Same standing reach as Vuc.

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saw a couple of websites that said Kareem's wingspan was 7-5

[basketballRob]

so did Zhou Qi 7-8 wingspan, 9-4.5 reach, 218 lbs

Same standing reach as Vuc.

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saw a couple of websites that said Kareem's wingspan was 7-5

I always thought he was bigger but yeah I saw that too.

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[ezzzp]

Same standing reach as Vuc.

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saw a couple of websites that said Kareem's wingspan was 7-5

I always thought he was bigger but yeah I saw that too.

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it might have been, none of what I saw looked remotely official

[pepe1991]

Manu had seasons where he averaged 19,5 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, 46% FG ,40% for 3 ,86% FTs, while playing 30mpg, during painfully slow pace era.

For 7 diferent years in playoffs, Parker averaged over 20 ppg, including 20,4 ppg during championship run when he won finals MVP.
During around 2013 he was considered one of best players in nba.

I think Popovich influence helped Parker more as Ginobili was well established before NBA, winning Euroleague , and later, winning Olympic gold, beating USA that had: Iverson, Marbury, Duncan, Amare, Melo,Wade, Lebron...

People were saying Kawhi is system player in 2014.... System can help you, but there is no system in the world that will make you 20 ppg player on championship team if you are not super elite.

My orginal point was that team with superstar PF needs elite ballhandlers. He ( Duncan) had two for almost whole lenght of his career, aside from that year when they won with twin tower, in rookie year.

[basketballRob]

Manu had seasons where he averaged 19,5 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, 46% FG ,40% for 3 ,86% FTs, while playing 30mpg, during painfully slow pace era.

For 7 diferent years in playoffs, Parker averaged over 20 ppg, including 20,4 ppg during championship run when he won finals MVP.
During around 2013 he was considered one of best players in nba.

I think Popovich influence helped Parker more as Ginobili was well established before NBA, winning Euroleague , and later, winning Olympic gold, beating USA that had: Iverson, Marbury, Duncan, Amare, Melo,Wade, Lebron...

People were saying Kawhi is system player in 2014.... System can help you, but there is no system in the world that will make you 20 ppg player on championship team if you are not super elite.

My orginal point was that team with superstar PF needs elite ballhandlers. He ( Duncan) had two for almost whole lenght of his career, aside from that year when they won with twin tower, in rookie year.

I think the term "big 3" originated from Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan.

[pepe1991]

Manu had seasons where he averaged 19,5 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, 46% FG ,40% for 3 ,86% FTs, while playing 30mpg, during painfully slow pace era.

For 7 diferent years in playoffs, Parker averaged over 20 ppg, including 20,4 ppg during championship run when he won finals MVP.
During around 2013 he was considered one of best players in nba.

I think Popovich influence helped Parker more as Ginobili was well established before NBA, winning Euroleague , and later, winning Olympic gold, beating USA that had: Iverson, Marbury, Duncan, Amare, Melo,Wade, Lebron...

People were saying Kawhi is system player in 2014.... System can help you, but there is no system in the world that will make you 20 ppg player on championship team if you are not super elite.

My orginal point was that team with superstar PF needs elite ballhandlers. He ( Duncan) had two for almost whole lenght of his career, aside from that year when they won with twin tower, in rookie year.

I think the term "big 3" originated from Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan.

Pretty much, them and Celtics "BIG 3" with KG; Allen and Pierce

[pepe1991]

saw a couple of websites that said Kareem's wingspan was 7-5

I always thought he was bigger but yeah I saw that too.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

it might have been, none of what I saw looked remotely official

Guy is still alive, his limbs didn't get shorter, they can still measure it

[ezzzp]

When did I say he was? I’m not the one crying. I also don’t view Towns as a good use of cap space if we are playing the hypothetical game of “who is better out of two players that aren’t ideal to build around”. You are arguing about nothing per usual.

Yes I said it’s easier to have a Center like Horford because of what he brings to the table as a player. That’s not based on trends. That’s based on being multi-faceted with few glaring holes needing to compliment his game on a roster basis. Your failure to distinguish the two is on you. You disagree with my assessment? Cool. You want to cry about disagreeing with me? (again) go for it.

You could list all of the reasons you love Vucevic and protect him like he’s your son. It’s not going to change the fact that he’s considered less valuable than Towns, Jokic, AD, etc. by the majority of the population that actually watch nba basketball.

Yea you are. You've been sobbing anytime someone says something positive about Vucevic; desperately trying to discredit any statistical evidence or cap projection that debunks your anti-Vucevic bias. As per usual, here you are again throwing a tantrum because others won't join you in your strange hatred of Vucevic.

Here is a comparison of your "ideal" C and the player that you are constantly whining about...

Both played on good defenses (Boston 107.0 DRTG / Orlando 107.5 DRTG)

DEFENSIVE FG%

• < 6ft
Horford: 56.5 DFG% / -5.3 impact on opponents FG%
Vucevic: 54.8 DFG% / -7.4 impact on opponents FG%
• < 10ft
Horford: 53.1 DFG% / -3.9impact on opponents FG%
Vucevic: 52.2 DFG% / -5.1 impact on opponents FG%
• > 15ft
Horford: 37.4 DFG% / +0.3 impact on opponents FG%
Vucevic: 40.9 DFG% / +4.3 impact on opponents FG%
• < 3PT
Horford: 34.6 DFG% / -0.8 impact on opponents FG%
Vucevic: 38.5 DFG% / +3.7 impact on opponents FG%

DEFENSIVE RPM / NBA RANK
Horford: 2.67 / 24TH
Vucevic: 3.59/ 8TH

DEFENSIVE REBOUNDING
Horford: 20.2 DREB%
Vucevic: 28.6 DREB%

REBOUNDS
Horford: 458
Vucevic: 960

DEFLECTIONS
Horford: 94
Vucevic: 127

STEALS
Horford: 59
Vucevic: 81

BLOCKS
Horford: 86
Vucevic: 89

...another set of skills to compare are creation, screening, and box outs...the making teammates better part of the equation:

ASSIST %
Horford: 20.3
Vucevic: 20.8

AST PTS CREATED
Horford 725
Vucevic: 759

SCREEN ASSISTS
Horford: 234
Vucevic: 350

BOX OUTS/DEF BOX OUTS
Horford: 453 / 420
Vucevic: 719 / 662

...and Horford will be making $31.2m next season, 29% of Boston's cap....yet you instantly start crying if someone proposes that Vucevic on a 20% of cap ($22m) contract is fair.

Oh and that 3PT floor spacing superiority you were talking about:

3PA/3P%
Horford: 203 / .360
Vucevic: 231 / .364

[ezzzp]

Another starting caliber C enters the free agency market:

Read on Twitter

[ezzzp]

...some more Vucevic related news - LAC are a team that might need a C and have cap space to pay high $ for Vucevic (+Vuc has LA/USC ties):

Hoops Rumors

While the Clippers are generally grouped together with the rest of the Los Angeles and New York teams leading up to free agency as the big-market franchises looking to make a major splash on the free agent market, the Clips’ plans may look a little different than what those other clubs have in mind, writes Jovan Buha of The Athletic.

As Buha explains, the Clippers are unlikely to pursue top point guards like Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker due to their “steadfast belief” in Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, who has been considered untouchable in trade talks.

Additionally, the Clippers likely won’t attempt to sign a second- or third-tier free agent like Khris Middleton or Tobias Harris unless it’s on a short-term deal, according to Buha, who points out that the team traded away Harris because it didn’t want to cap the roster’s ceiling at “good” instead of “great.”

Instead, the Clippers will focus on the top two free agents in this year’s free agent class – Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard – as well as top trade candidate Anthony Davis. If L.A. is unable to land one of those superstars, the organization figures to remain patient, avoiding a reactionary signing or trade and instead shifting its attention to re-signing its own free agents and making smaller moves, says Buha.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

...some more Vucevic related news - LAC are a team that might need a C and have cap space to pay high $ for Vucevic (+Vuc has LA/USC ties):

Hoops Rumors

While the Clippers are generally grouped together with the rest of the Los Angeles and New York teams leading up to free agency as the big-market franchises looking to make a major splash on the free agent market, the Clips’ plans may look a little different than what those other clubs have in mind, writes Jovan Buha of The Athletic.

As Buha explains, the Clippers are unlikely to pursue top point guards like Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker due to their “steadfast belief” in Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, who has been considered untouchable in trade talks.

Additionally, the Clippers likely won’t attempt to sign a second- or third-tier free agent like Khris Middleton or Tobias Harris unless it’s on a short-term deal, according to Buha, who points out that the team traded away Harris because it didn’t want to cap the roster’s ceiling at “good” instead of “great.”

Instead, the Clippers will focus on the top two free agents in this year’s free agent class – Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard – as well as top trade candidate Anthony Davis. If L.A. is unable to land one of those superstars, the organization figures to remain patient, avoiding a reactionary signing or trade and instead shifting its attention to re-signing its own free agents and making smaller moves, says Buha.

Hopefully our FO doesn't want to cap our rosters ceiling at "mediocre" instead of working towards "great"

[ezzzp]

...some more Vucevic related news - LAC are a team that might need a C and have cap space to pay high $ for Vucevic (+Vuc has LA/USC ties):

Hoops Rumors

While the Clippers are generally grouped together with the rest of the Los Angeles and New York teams leading up to free agency as the big-market franchises looking to make a major splash on the free agent market, the Clips’ plans may look a little different than what those other clubs have in mind, writes Jovan Buha of The Athletic.

As Buha explains, the Clippers are unlikely to pursue top point guards like Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker due to their “steadfast belief” in Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, who has been considered untouchable in trade talks.

Additionally, the Clippers likely won’t attempt to sign a second- or third-tier free agent like Khris Middleton or Tobias Harris unless it’s on a short-term deal, according to Buha, who points out that the team traded away Harris because it didn’t want to cap the roster’s ceiling at “good” instead of “great.”

Instead, the Clippers will focus on the top two free agents in this year’s free agent class – Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard – as well as top trade candidate Anthony Davis. If L.A. is unable to land one of those superstars, the organization figures to remain patient, avoiding a reactionary signing or trade and instead shifting its attention to re-signing its own free agents and making smaller moves, says Buha.

Hopefully our FO doesn't want to cap our rosters ceiling at "mediocre" instead of working towards "great"

Once city is LA, the top free agency destination in the NBA every year since forever....the other is Orlando.

Hate to break it to you, but unless you are proposing "tanking" ...then the only way for the Magic to get to "great" is to go through stages of "good," because no "great" free agent is signing in Orlando without them at bare minimum proving that they are "good" for multiple seasons.

The only way for the Magic to get to and stay at "good" is by retaining their assets and leveraging them up in trades; meanwhile developing whatever youth to their peak within that context.

[yoyojw17]

Another starting caliber C enters the free agency market:

Read on Twitter

Good.... puts anpther big out there that can effect the final cost for Vuc.

[yoyojw17]

...some more Vucevic related news - LAC are a team that might need a C and have cap space to pay high $ for Vucevic (+Vuc has LA/USC ties):

Hoops Rumors

Hopefully our FO doesn't want to cap our rosters ceiling at "mediocre" instead of working towards "great"

Once city is LA, the top free agency destination in the NBA every year since forever....the other is Orlando.

Hate to break it to you, but unless you are proposing "tanking" ...then the only way for the Magic to get to "great" is to go through stages of "good," because no "great" free agent is signing in Orlando without them at bare minimum proving that they are "good" for multiple seasons.

The only way for the Magic to get to and stay at "good" is by retaining their assets and leveraging them up in trades; meanwhile developing whatever youth to their peak within that context.

Agreed. we have to be as goooooood as possible.... the more viable assets we can bring together the better... and then we can send some of them to attain something great. And in doing so we can let our players grow... allowing us to figure them out.

But at the same time.... i can easily see this current team make big strides forward with the development of Isaac, AG and bamba.... and addition of Fultz and 16th... both of which i have hopes for. all that mixed with the team that pushed through to the end... and i think our team can be great. Defensively on point with a load of possible scoring option on a given night.... team play CAN trump having a star player or 2... lol... but having a star would be great.

[Bensational]

Looking over FA names, and the money available, I'm starting to feel like there will be some real bargains out there towards the end of free agency. There are a few 'tiers' of free agents, but theres anywhere from 30-40 names of starting calibre to great players, and roughly $560M in potential cap spread amongst 15 teams. If the top 10 FAs all get max contracts, that's almost the available cap space already used up. Meaning there will be approx $300M for the rest of the FAs. If the next 10 get $20M deals, then there's only going to be $100M (plus the MLEs) for the remaining FAs, and there's 20-40 more good names still on the board.

Top Tier
Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Durant

Second Tier
Kyrie Irving
Jimmy Butler
Klay Thompson
Kemba Walker

Third Tier
Kristaps Porzingis
D'Angelo Russell
Tobias Harris
Khris Middleton
Marc Gasol
Al Horford
DeMarcus Cousins
Nikola Vucevic
Bojan Bogdanovic
Malcolm Brogdon
J.J. Redick

UFAs and recent RFAs
Julius Randle
Kelly Oubre Jr.
Jonas Valanciunas

C's
DeAndre Jordan
Willie Cauley-Stein
Nerlens Noel
Robin Lopez
Dewayne Dedmon
Kosta Koufos
Boban Marjanovic
Ed Davis

Role Players
Danny Green
Terrence Ross
Thaddeus Young
Nikola Mirotic
DeMarre Carroll
Taj Gibson
Patrick Beverley
Ricky Rubio
Bobby Portis
Rudy Gay
Marcus Morris
Terry Rozier

[yoyojw17]

Looking over FA names, and the money available, I'm starting to feel like there will be some real bargains out there towards the end of free agency. There are a few 'tiers' of free agents, but theres anywhere from 30-40 names of starting calibre to great players, and roughly $560M in potential cap spread amongst 15 teams. If the top 10 FAs all get max contracts, that's almost the available cap space already used up. Meaning there will be approx $300M for the rest of the FAs. If the next 10 get $20M deals, then there's only going to be $100M (plus the MLEs) for the remaining FAs, and there's 20-40 more good names still on the board.

Top Tier
Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Durant

Second Tier
Kyrie Irving
Jimmy Butler
Klay Thompson
Kemba Walker

Third Tier
Kristaps Porzingis
D'Angelo Russell
Tobias Harris
Khris Middleton
Marc Gasol
Al Horford
DeMarcus Cousins
Nikola Vucevic
Bojan Bogdanovic
Malcolm Brogdon
J.J. Redick

UFAs and recent RFAs
Julius Randle
Kelly Oubre Jr.
Jonas Valanciunas

C's
DeAndre Jordan
Willie Cauley-Stein
Nerlens Noel
Robin Lopez
Dewayne Dedmon
Kosta Koufos
Boban Marjanovic
Ed Davis

Role Players
Danny Green
Terrence Ross
Thaddeus Young
Nikola Mirotic
DeMarre Carroll
Taj Gibson
Patrick Beverley
Ricky Rubio
Bobby Portis
Rudy Gay
Marcus Morris
Terry Rozier

And we have to remember that some of these teams with MAX cap space also only have a minimal number of players by that point.... and will still have to flesh out the rest of their teams. Lakers have space for another max free agent... only has like 4 players on their roster to have that much cap space at the end of the day. hahah

[Xatticus]

Looking over FA names, and the money available, I'm starting to feel like there will be some real bargains out there towards the end of free agency. There are a few 'tiers' of free agents, but theres anywhere from 30-40 names of starting calibre to great players, and roughly $560M in potential cap spread amongst 15 teams. If the top 10 FAs all get max contracts, that's almost the available cap space already used up. Meaning there will be approx $300M for the rest of the FAs. If the next 10 get $20M deals, then there's only going to be $100M (plus the MLEs) for the remaining FAs, and there's 20-40 more good names still on the board.

Spoiler:

Top Tier
Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Durant

Second Tier
Kyrie Irving
Jimmy Butler
Klay Thompson
Kemba Walker

Third Tier
Kristaps Porzingis
D'Angelo Russell
Tobias Harris
Khris Middleton
Marc Gasol
Al Horford
DeMarcus Cousins
Nikola Vucevic
Bojan Bogdanovic
Malcolm Brogdon
J.J. Redick

UFAs and recent RFAs
Julius Randle
Kelly Oubre Jr.
Jonas Valanciunas

C's
DeAndre Jordan
Willie Cauley-Stein
Nerlens Noel
Robin Lopez
Dewayne Dedmon
Kosta Koufos
Boban Marjanovic
Ed Davis

Role Players
Danny Green
Terrence Ross
Thaddeus Young
Nikola Mirotic
DeMarre Carroll
Taj Gibson
Patrick Beverley
Ricky Rubio
Bobby Portis
Rudy Gay
Marcus Morris
Terry Rozier

It's definitely a buyer's market. Free agency doesn't generally provide cost-effective opportunities, but this year is an exception. It's unfortunate that we don't have money to spend.

[Skybox]

It's definitely a buyer's market. Free agency doesn't generally provide cost-effective opportunities, but this year is an exception. It's unfortunate that we don't have money to spend.

YET...still would not surprise me to see our draft pick attached to Evan going out (which is what I heard), then if Vuc and Ross and other FA's go + possibility of stretching Moz--suddenly, we're in the mix in a pretty significant way. I'm not saying this is what I hope, but it's not at all out of the realm of possibilities. I still have tremendous faith in WeHam's discipline and patience-this could be the offseason they've been setting up for (or might just be setting up for next summer-we'll see soon).

My first hope is keeping Vuc and Ross below the (generally) expected market (19 and 11)- but that seems unlikely. Then we go forward with locked up assets to trade as opportunities present themselves.