Woj: Celtics and Lakers Engaged with Pelicans on Anthony Davis Trade

[UNCBlue012]

Let's not act like Tatum is a sure fire future superstar, or even a sure fire future all-star. Right now nothing about him sets him apart from Kuzma or Ingram. Kuzma + Ingram is a much better offer than Tatum.

Most reports seem to think the Pelicans think otherwise.

[ITYSL]

Let's not act like Tatum is a sure fire future superstar, or even a sure fire future all-star. Right now nothing about him sets him apart from Kuzma or Ingram. Kuzma + Ingram is a much better offer than Tatum.

I agree that adding Kuzma changes the discussion, but from everything we have heard, the Lakers are not willing to give up Kuzma.

I think most team execs would disagree with you re: Tatum vs. Kuzma or Ingram. Tatum's playoff performance last year had a lasting effect on his image. Tatum was also better than both of them almost across the board this season.

[Duke4life831]

Thats a nice core 3 and all, but I still think Tatum gets this done. Tatum/Zion pairing is nice, thats how you set your franchise up for long term success.

Honestly if I'm the Pelicans, I probably take even a package of Hayward/Tatum over anything the Lakers offering. If Hayward can rebound any value and they can include Hill, thats a damn good place to be. Its not like the Pels are a huge market for free agents. As you suggested they can still pursue Lopez on a nice 2 year contract.

Jrue/Hayward/Tatum/Zion/Lopez

This seems to be a nice mix of now and the future. Zion/Tatum can carry you longterm, while they can immediately compete for the playoffs with this roster.

Yep, that's possible. What many Laker fans didn't realize at the trade deadline and still fail to realize is that a ton of mediocre assets doesn't add up to a good one, and that a bunch of good assets doesn't add up to a very good one.

If NO sees Tatum as an asset that has potential far and above anything the Lakers are willing to give up, then they would prefer to deal for Tatum.

This right here. Its why we always say the team who traded the star lost "value". I just don't see the Lakers players being anything special. They all have so many flaws.

And while Tatum may have had a bit of a sophomore slump with his efficiency, hes still by far and away the best prospect here. 21 years old, already was a big reason his team made the conference finals, plus defender, plus shooter, can create his own shot, and proved he gets better in the playoffs.

Looking around the league, hes one of the better young guys I would want to build around a Zion led core. I can imagine those two leading that team to the finals 5 years down the road.

Im just not sold on this part. If you are, then I get why the Boston deal looks like the better deal. I personally have Ingram above Tatum. So to me, Ingram plus the #4 pick is the most enticing duo being offered.

[LightTheBeam]

Griffin must really not like this draft then (cant blame him). But Id much rather keep the pick and take a shot on a guy like Garland, then just looking for a quality starter. Zion/Ingram/Garland as your core 3. This will also give them some options. Do they stick with Lonzo and run a 2 guard set with Lonzo and Garland and hope Lonzo can find his jumper. Or do they trade him away for a different asset. Do they look to trade Holiday out for another asset. If Im the Pelicans, I would be looking to try and sway a Brooke Lopez with a big 2 year deal. He would be the ideal 5 to go along with Zion.

Thats a nice core 3 and all, but I still think Tatum gets this done. Tatum/Zion pairing is nice, thats how you set your franchise up for long term success.

Honestly if I'm the Pelicans, I probably take even a package of Hayward/Tatum over anything the Lakers offering. If Hayward can rebound any value and they can include Hill, thats a damn good place to be. Its not like the Pels are a huge market for free agents. As you suggested they can still pursue Lopez on a nice 2 year contract.

Jrue/Hayward/Tatum/Zion/Lopez

This seems to be a nice mix of now and the future. Zion/Tatum can carry you longterm, while they can immediately compete for the playoffs with this roster.

The only issue I have with this, is this could end up with the Pelicans kind of being lost in 2 years. A possible scenario to this is in two years Lopez contract is up and he will be in his mid 30s, he could bounce to chase a ring. Haywards contract will be up in 2 years and be an unrestricted free agent (will also be 30), and Holiday can opt out and be a free agent in 2 years. So worst case scenario is 3/5 of your lineup bounces, and you haven't added any other top tier assets because you would probably be picking between 14-19 the two years with that roster.

I like Bostons offer if it includes Jaylen Brown. With that you can get a couple years of

Holiday
Brown
Tatum
Zion
Lopez

That way you still have 3 young guys to be building around if Holiday leaves in 2 years. Tatum and Hayward alone (assuming with some mid 1st round picks), Im just not sold on if you're doing enough to help the team long term, and you clearly aren't a true contender for the first couple years.

I'm assuming that some picks will be added as well. Call it #14 or Memphis pick, maybe throw #22 on top of that.

But IMO either way a core of Tatum/Zion can be built around. Maybe those 3 guys leave in 2 years, and in that time Tatum/Zion have established themselves as all-stars. Now you've got your 1 and 2 options long term. Its New Orleans so sure they won't attract a big name free agent, but its absolutely possible to dip into the role players pool and build yourself a contender if those 2 are as good as advertised.

Whats the alternative? The Lakers aren't willing to give both Kuz and Ingram. So lets assume they budge and give Kuz/#4/Ball. Kuz becomes a good 6th man, Lonzo becomes Ricky Rubio 2.0, a good passer/defender who never took that next step. They draft #4 in whats considered a weak draft and find themselves an average level starter. You overpay to keep Kuz and Ball (both haven't been to keen on small cities). Brook/Holiday still bounce in 2 years and now you are left with overpaid Lonzo/Kuz, Zion, #4 and no real way to improve the team.

We can look at the gloom of each scenario, and id still rather be in a position where I KNOW i'm getting a player who can become robin to Zions batman.

[The Laker Kid]

Imagine all these hours spent on negotiations, only for Adam Silver to pull "Basketball Reasons" again for the second time.

[kobe808lak]

Let's not act like Tatum is a sure fire future superstar, or even a sure fire future all-star. Right now nothing about him sets him apart from Kuzma or Ingram. Kuzma + Ingram is a much better offer than Tatum.

I agree that adding Kuzma changes the discussion, but from everything we have heard, the Lakers are not willing to give up Kuzma.

I think most team execs would disagree with you re: Tatum vs. Kuzma or Ingram. Tatum's playoff performance last year had a lasting effect on his image. Tatum was also better than both of them almost across the board this season.

He was not better than Ingram prior to his injury. He was playing lights out.

[jfs1000d]

Let's not act like Tatum is a sure fire future superstar, or even a sure fire future all-star. Right now nothing about him sets him apart from Kuzma or Ingram. Kuzma + Ingram is a much better offer than Tatum.

Why does everyone else in nba circles think differently?


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[LipSkinMatter]

Let's not act like Tatum is a sure fire future superstar, or even a sure fire future all-star. Right now nothing about him sets him apart from Kuzma or Ingram. Kuzma + Ingram is a much better offer than Tatum.

Why does everyone else in nba circles think differently?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Massive assumption.

[JimmyTheGreek]

Read on Twitter

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[LightTheBeam]

Yep, that's possible. What many Laker fans didn't realize at the trade deadline and still fail to realize is that a ton of mediocre assets doesn't add up to a good one, and that a bunch of good assets doesn't add up to a very good one.

If NO sees Tatum as an asset that has potential far and above anything the Lakers are willing to give up, then they would prefer to deal for Tatum.

This right here. Its why we always say the team who traded the star lost "value". I just don't see the Lakers players being anything special. They all have so many flaws.

And while Tatum may have had a bit of a sophomore slump with his efficiency, hes still by far and away the best prospect here. 21 years old, already was a big reason his team made the conference finals, plus defender, plus shooter, can create his own shot, and proved he gets better in the playoffs.

Looking around the league, hes one of the better young guys I would want to build around a Zion led core. I can imagine those two leading that team to the finals 5 years down the road.

Im just not sold on this part. If you are, then I get why the Boston deal looks like the better deal. I personally have Ingram above Tatum. So to me, Ingram plus the #4 pick is the most enticing duo being offered.

Fair enough. I've never been a huge fan of Ingram. The blood clots only made it worse for me. Its kind of telling to me that in year 3 playing alongside Lebron James, he still managed to have negative impact and very little influence on winning. He has a decent ability to play on ball and create for others, but his lack of a shot is also something id be wary of pairing with Zion.

May sound like a crazy comparison but I almost view him as a taller Tyreke Evans. Hes not at his best playing off ball, but hes also not good enough to make your lead guy. They both struggled at shooting the ball and seemed to be at their best driving. Ingram seemed to have his best stretch without Lebron, this isn't something I want to see from my 3rd or 4th guy.

[blvck]

i feel like at this point the trade is finished but wont be announced till after the finals end it ends this weekend if not tonite so all the moves will be breaking news for tuesday champs will be the news monday

we waiting on breaking news that wont break for another 5days

[FlatearthZorro]

Let's not act like Tatum is a sure fire future superstar, or even a sure fire future all-star. Right now nothing about him sets him apart from Kuzma or Ingram. Kuzma + Ingram is a much better offer than Tatum.

Why does everyone else in nba circles think differently?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Massive assumption.

You've been putting a ton of energy into hating on the Celtics haven't you? Well the media as of right now is saying the Lakers are the leverage, which I thought they were for a while in order for us to put Tatum's right on the table. I think if Tatum's available we get Davis with ease. I don't know if Danny will do it. Still wonder what Benson's position on the Lakers is. We shall find out a week from now.

[ragesincemdxvi]

I'm curious how people like Woj and Shams get their info if these transactions are supposedly very private.

They have connection with the player's agents. Shams is close with Rich Paul and Woj with Griffin.

[LipSkinMatter]

Why does everyone else in nba circles think differently?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Massive assumption.

You've been putting a ton of energy into hating on the Celtics haven't you? Well the media as of right now is saying the Lakers are the leverage, which I thought they were for a while in order for us to put Tatum's right on the table.I think if Tatum's available we get Davis with ease. I don't know if Danny will do it. Still wonder what Benson's position on the Lakers is. We shall find out a week from now.

I would take Tatum over any one of the Lakers' duders, and I've been saying the Lakers' package was doo doo. That doesn't mean that every single person in NBA circles thinks the same. I could see the logic behind thinking Ingram > Tatum. The fact of the matter is Tatum has been nothing more than average during the regular season, and while in the NBA that kind of production for a player his age is promising, that doesn't mean he will ever take the jump into stardom for sure.

I have no problem with the Celtics except for the fact that they are a rival of my team. However, Celtics fans prove consistently to be some of the biggest homers on this board, which is one thing I can't stand. Therefore, I like to poke a little fun at them, sure.

[Lawyershawn]

Long gone are the days when the Lakers had MASTER negotiators in Doctor Buss and Jerry West (even Kupchak, the anti-leaker).

This is not going to be pretty for the Lakers, and Pelicans likely going to put the Lakers over their laps.

Dr. Buss would slap the offer on the table—and call their bluff. Let them go elsewhere for an inferior trade if they like because Lakers have the BEST offer (although ESPN and RealGM like to pretend otherwise).

[thebigbird]

Let's not act like Tatum is a sure fire future superstar, or even a sure fire future all-star. Right now nothing about him sets him apart from Kuzma or Ingram. Kuzma + Ingram is a much better offer than Tatum.

Why does everyone else in nba circles think differently?


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Because Tatum got overrated after a pretty good postseason his rookie year. This season he regressed. His three point shooting went from 43% to 37%. His team massively underachieved despite no injuries to their main core. He's only 6 months younger than Ingram. Both Kuzma and Ingram averaged more ppg this season that Tatum. I don't disagree with you that right now people value Tatum higher than they do the other two. They just shouldn't.

[FlatearthZorro]

Massive assumption.

You've been putting a ton of energy into hating on the Celtics haven't you? Well the media as of right now is saying the Lakers are the leverage, which I thought they were for a while in order for us to put Tatum's right on the table.I think if Tatum's available we get Davis with ease. I don't know if Danny will do it. Still wonder what Benson's position on the Lakers is. We shall find out a week from now.

I would take Tatum over any one of the Lakers' duders, and I've been saying the Lakers' package was doo doo. That doesn't mean that every single person in NBA circles thinks the same. I could see the logic behind thinking Ingram > Tatum. The fact of the matter is Tatum has been nothing more than average during the regular season, and while in the NBA that kind of production for a player his age is promising, that doesn't mean he will ever take the jump into stardom for sure.

I have no problem with the Celtics except for the fact that they are a rival of my team. However, Celtics fans prove consistently to be some of the biggest homers on this board, which is one thing I can't stand. Therefore, I like to poke a little fun at them, sure.

There is no logic behind Ingram > Tatum. Tatum has managed to stay healthier, he has 2 years on his rookie deal, he's a far superior defender(has ranked 200+ spots over Ingram the last 2 years), he's quicker on his feet and a better athlete, imo, definitely a better shooter. Ingram has gotten WAY more chances to showcase what he's got and it hasn't been that impressive so far. If Ingram was better than Tatum the Pels-Lakers deal would've been done already. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's done, maybe it's not, I have no connections to NBA teams so I don't know, but the reports coming out of respectable nba insiders are that the Lakers are the leverage here, which means the Pels obviously would like to have Tatum.

[lamscott]

Will everyone quit with the Tatum or Ingram and vice versa. It only matters about the package. None of this hinges on either player. Lakers don't even covet Ingram and the Celtics have their own worries a lot of their players wanting big money, kyrie leaving, and Davis doesn't even want to play their per his agent.

Look at Porltand or the Nuggets make a real trade for AD.

[LipSkinMatter]

You've been putting a ton of energy into hating on the Celtics haven't you? Well the media as of right now is saying the Lakers are the leverage, which I thought they were for a while in order for us to put Tatum's right on the table.I think if Tatum's available we get Davis with ease. I don't know if Danny will do it. Still wonder what Benson's position on the Lakers is. We shall find out a week from now.

I would take Tatum over any one of the Lakers' duders, and I've been saying the Lakers' package was doo doo. That doesn't mean that every single person in NBA circles thinks the same. I could see the logic behind thinking Ingram > Tatum. The fact of the matter is Tatum has been nothing more than average during the regular season, and while in the NBA that kind of production for a player his age is promising, that doesn't mean he will ever take the jump into stardom for sure.

I have no problem with the Celtics except for the fact that they are a rival of my team. However, Celtics fans prove consistently to be some of the biggest homers on this board, which is one thing I can't stand. Therefore, I like to poke a little fun at them, sure.

There is no logic behind Ingram > Tatum. Tatum has managed to stay healthier, he has 2 years on his rookie deal, he's a far superior defender(has ranked 200+ spots over Ingram the last 2 years), he's quicker on his feet and a better athlete, imo, definitely a better shooter. Ingram has gotten WAY more chances to showcase what he's got and it hasn't been that impressive so far. If Ingram was better than Tatum the Pels-Lakers deal would've been done already. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's done, maybe it's not, I have no connections to NBA teams so I don't know, but the reports coming out of respectable nba insiders are that the Lakers are the leverage here, which means the Pels obviously would like to have Tatum.

I dunno why you're making the case to me, I agree with you that Tatum is better, but he hasn't done anything that makes it a slam dunk yet. And besides, Ingram is bad IMO so saying Tatum is better means little to me.

[FlatearthZorro]

Will everyone quit with the Tatum or Ingram and vice versa. It only matters about the package. None of this hinges on either player. Lakers don't even covet Ingram and the Celtics have their own worries a lot of their players wanting big money, kyrie leaving, and Davis doesn't even want to play their per his agent.

Look at Porltand or the Nuggets make a real trade for AD.

I kinda agree. And I wouldn't be shocked if Nuggets or Portland do in fact jump the line. It seems to happen more often than not.