2019 Draft Class - Part 2

[PhilBlackson]

Still riding with Hunter.

[karkinos]

I think he has clear limitations, Zion does too similarly, with small hands, it really affects ball control and being able to get wherever you want on the court, they can't palm the ball

zion has small hands?
you sure about that?

[nolang1]

and Duval didn't get drafted accordingly...again, most of the time, evals readjust based on college performances. Not seeing what the issue here is.

most people don't even have Nas in the lotto.

Ironically in both cases you're describing people getting hung up on their initial evaluation of a player. Lots of NBA GMs are not paying that much attention to high school players - yeah they might go to the Hoop Summit to network or whatever, but the GM of a playoff team isn't going to be in a position to draft the players who obviously stand out. So NBA GMs do better than the average fan who watches a few ballislife mixtapes at realizing that someone like Duval was not good in college, but they make the same sort of mistakes with regards to highly-drafted players who aren't good in the NBA.

i'm not really sure what we're arguing about anymore, it's getting a bit convoluted, but you're talking to a guy who had Nas as a top 2 player heading into the season, and now I don't even have him ranked.

You're being pretty dismissive of it by using after-the-fact 'well everyone knew those players weren't going to be that good and they were evaluated accurately' reasoning while ignoring that obviously there's a sizable chunk of people each year (I'm sure they think they're treating everything on a case-by-case basis as well) overrating various top high school prospects who weren't good in college.

Not only that, but of the younger players on this list you're overrating most of them quite a bit by saying they were evaluated accurately: if someone told you that a team used the 4th pick on a wing who can't shoot, isn't a particularly good finisher, has more turnovers than assists for his career, and has managed to post negative win shares in each of his first two seasons, you'd probably say that player was a massive bust at #4. Instead because that player is former top-3 high school recruit Josh Jackson, you're more likely to think he has a lot of untapped potential and will eventually perform at the level expected from a player drafted so high. Nobody on that list was a steal for where they were drafted and of the few players who aren't old enough to have their career paths set, you're saying they were properly evaluated as lottery picks when by any objective measure of what they've done in the NBA, they're looking like busts who could be out of the league in a couple years.

[No-Man]

I think he has clear limitations, Zion does too similarly, with small hands, it really affects ball control and being able to get wherever you want on the court, they can't palm the ball

zion has small hands?
you sure about that?

yeah, for anybody who has watched him, it's pretty obvious

[eminence]

Am I the only one in the world who kinda still likes Happ?

[clyde21]

Ironically in both cases you're describing people getting hung up on their initial evaluation of a player. Lots of NBA GMs are not paying that much attention to high school players - yeah they might go to the Hoop Summit to network or whatever, but the GM of a playoff team isn't going to be in a position to draft the players who obviously stand out. So NBA GMs do better than the average fan who watches a few ballislife mixtapes at realizing that someone like Duval was not good in college, but they make the same sort of mistakes with regards to highly-drafted players who aren't good in the NBA.

i'm not really sure what we're arguing about anymore, it's getting a bit convoluted, but you're talking to a guy who had Nas as a top 2 player heading into the season, and now I don't even have him ranked.

You're being pretty dismissive of it by using after-the-fact 'well everyone knew those players weren't going to be that good and they were evaluated accurately' reasoning while ignoring that obviously there's a sizable chunk of people each year (I'm sure they think they're treating everything on a case-by-case basis as well) overrating various top high school prospects who weren't good in college.

Not only that, but of the younger players on this list you're overrating most of them quite a bit by saying they were evaluated accurately: if someone told you that a team used the 4th pick on a wing who can't shoot, isn't a particularly good finisher, has more turnovers than assists for his career, and has managed to post negative win shares in each of his first two seasons, you'd probably say that player was a massive bust at #4. Instead because that player is former top-3 high school recruit Josh Jackson, you're more likely to think he has a lot of untapped potential and will eventually perform at the level expected from a player drafted so high. Nobody on that list was a steal for where they were drafted and of the few players who aren't old enough to have their career paths set, you're saying they were properly evaluated as lottery picks when by any objective measure of what they've done in the NBA, they're looking like busts who could be out of the league in a couple years.

i don't operate in hindsight, almost everyone had Josh Jackson as a top 10 pick, including posters here. that's not really a good faith argument nor a discussion I'm willing to operate in.

point is, two things happen: 1) either players are re-evaluated accordingly (like Skal, Anderson, Giles, Nas, etc.) or 2) teams think said players weren't used correctly and still believe in the baseline talent.

not sure what the issue here is.

[Ruzious]

AGAIN we are talking abt a KID who's 18yrs old, and who started bball 6yrs ago .... You gotta believe

It is kinda silly to believe he won't continue to improve on those skills. Giannis had the same problems in his first couple of years with the Bucks with the high dribbling. It's simply a matter of how hard he's going to work. And one other thing folks don't seem to be keeping in mind - he's a PF. He doesn't need to handle the ball like a PG.

[Ruzious]

I think he has clear limitations, Zion does too similarly, with small hands, it really affects ball control and being able to get wherever you want on the court, they can't palm the ball

zion has small hands?
you sure about that?

yeah, for anybody who has watched him, it's pretty obvious

And it's really not an issue.

[Ruzious]

I think he has clear limitations, Zion does too similarly, with small hands, it really affects ball control and being able to get wherever you want on the court, they can't palm the ball

zion has small hands?
you sure about that?

yeah, for anybody who has watched him, it's pretty obvious

And it's really not an issue.

[No-Man]

well not for Zion no, although it could be a limiting factor to his absolute upside, he is also an utter anomaly, he is a freak

[remi_222]

well not for Zion no, although it could be a limiting factor to his absolute upside, he is also an utter anomaly, he is a freak

You're really digging into the most specific and tiniest aspect of the game to determine the potential success ! I think it's not the right path because having a big hand or not doesnt make you more valuable (unless you're Kawhi), but the amount of work that all these players are wiling to put on !

[peZt]

zion has small hands?
you sure about that?

yeah, for anybody who has watched him, it's pretty obvious

And it's really not an issue.

He fumbles the ball A LOT, which I'm sure has something to do the with the size of his hands. They look super tiny

[Ruzious]

yeah, for anybody who has watched him, it's pretty obvious

And it's really not an issue.

He fumbles the ball A LOT, which I'm sure has something to do the with the size of his hands. They look super tiny

This is silly. If he had a real problem with his hands, he wouldn't have been anywhere near as productive as he was, and his turnover rate wiould have been much higher. He consistently makes tough catches. He consistently corals the 50/50 balls. He consistently pulls down rebounds in traffic.

[clyde21]

lol trae, steph Garland kyrie all have small hands

non issue...hand size has more to do with dunking and catching than dribbling...u don't really palm when u dribble

[GA34]

When is Porter expected to be healthy ?

[MotownMadness]

I really wish Okeke wouldn’t have torn his ACL. He was looking intriguing to me and will probably end up being a solid pickup for a contender now

[Yuri Vaultin]

When is Porter expected to be healthy ?

Which one?

[nolang1]

lol trae, steph Garland kyrie all have small hands

non issue...hand size has more to do with dunking and catching than dribbling...u don't really palm when u dribble

Yes and Zion does more dunking and catching than dribbling. Also have you watched Kevin Durant play ever? He palms the ball quite a bit when he dribbles.

[clyde21]

lol trae, steph Garland kyrie all have small hands

non issue...hand size has more to do with dunking and catching than dribbling...u don't really palm when u dribble

Yes and Zion does more dunking and catching than dribbling. Also have you watched Kevin Durant play ever? He palms the ball quite a bit when he dribbles.

NO IVE NEVER SEEN KEVIN DURANT PLAY.

[MotownMadness]

Can anyone give me a comp for Obiesie? Is he more of a combo guard or true point and how’s his potential?