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What are your best Fournier trade proposals?

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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#281 » by Shady Franchise » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:08 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:Evan and Moz to BOS for Hayward and the 20th pick. (even money this year)
AG & 20th pic to LAC for Shai & Harrell (we get about 6M is savings, they still can add 2 max players)
Decline Ross
Sign Jeremy Lamb (should be around the Mid-level) He's 26
resign Vuc

Shai/Fultz
Lamb/16th pic
Hayward/Wes
J.I./Harrell
Vuc/Mo

End up with better shooting, better PG, still good defense.
Fultz could swing between Guard positions


Wishful thinking. Will never happen! If they won't trade him for AD, then what makes you think they'll do it for Gordon?
Do not max Vuc!
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#282 » by JBSouthpaw » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:20 pm

Shady Franchise wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:Evan and Moz to BOS for Hayward and the 20th pick. (even money this year)
AG & 20th pic to LAC for Shai & Harrell (we get about 6M is savings, they still can add 2 max players)
Decline Ross
Sign Jeremy Lamb (should be around the Mid-level) He's 26
resign Vuc

Shai/Fultz
Lamb/16th pic
Hayward/Wes
J.I./Harrell
Vuc/Mo

End up with better shooting, better PG, still good defense.
Fultz could swing between Guard positions


Wishful thinking. Will never happen! If they won't trade him for AD, then what makes you think they'll do it for Gordon?

Of course it's wishful thinking.
My thought is, for AD they were going to have to give up a lot more than Shai. You've seen what N.O. is requesting???
Trading for AG, they'd actually get a pick back, plus a very good young player on an excellent contract.
And they'd still have the $$ to add 2 all stars, and say Butler and Kawai aren't going to want a 20 y.o. PG.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#283 » by Skin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:04 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:
Skin wrote:Evan Fournier + DJ Augustin for Nic Batum

ORL has soured on Evan and CHA has soured on Nic. Including Augustin helps the Magic match salary and his value is a net positive for CHA. Especially if they lose Walker.

Could a change of scenery help both sides? Possibly. Batum fits WeHam's profile with his freakish 7'4 wingspan and ability to play SG or SF. He also fills the Magic's need for playmakers as Batum's ability to play facilitator is a strong part of his game. Batum is also at the point of his career where he can start to take on the role of mentor. He's gotten his pay day so selfish stat collecting in order to pump up his market value is not a priority. This kind of harmony would help team chemistry for the Magic who need to find the right balance and mix of experience and talent.

If we drafted a player like NAW who possesses playmaking ability on the college level, Batum could be a natural mentor for him.

The whole "mentor" concept is a load of nonsense and I'd rather not lose 2 below average starters for 1 and leave a massive hole at PG.

Who says that "Orlando has soured on Evan"? That sounds more like personal opinion more than anything else. He has a down year shooting the ball.... which is surprisingly similar numbers to some of the options that people want to replace him with. lol He's not the super sexy player... but i think that the hopeful changes to the team next season (improvement of player skills and health)... he will be back to what he used to be. A hard working and efficient shooting guard. And i think that is still better than below average as suggested. If he AND DJ are below average... and apparently to some so is JI... and AG ain't nothing special and Vuc is "fake news"... God himself must have piloted us into the playoffs with the best record in the east for the last 1/3 of the season. lol

You're telling me you don't see the massive amount of interest in SG draft prospects around these parts???

There's a damn good reason for that.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#284 » by Skin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:10 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
Skin wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:The whole "mentor" concept is a load of nonsense and I'd rather not lose 2 below average starters for 1 and leave a massive hole at PG.

Well it's a whole lot less about mentor and a whole lot more about balance, chemistry and collecting the right kind of skills. Plus, Batum is flat out better than Fournier in most aspects of the game.

We have a massive hole at PG WITH Augustin. Without him we'll be able to give someone else a chance. There's no love lost. Hardly irreplaceable.

You don't have to get rid of DJ for another PG to have a chance. Fultz will get more than a fair chance.
And you can't claim chemistry will be better, Evan maybe Vuc's best friend. This move would be lateral at best.

Vuc may not even come back. Plus, the Evan/Vuc buddy ball plague is a core reason for shaky team chemistry. Batum fits the WeHam mold and is a point forward. It could be a lateral move but it's another step forward in reshaping the team in WeHam's image.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#285 » by yoyojw17 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:27 pm

Skin wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:The whole "mentor" concept is a load of nonsense and I'd rather not lose 2 below average starters for 1 and leave a massive hole at PG.

Who says that "Orlando has soured on Evan"? That sounds more like personal opinion more than anything else. He has a down year shooting the ball.... which is surprisingly similar numbers to some of the options that people want to replace him with. lol He's not the super sexy player... but i think that the hopeful changes to the team next season (improvement of player skills and health)... he will be back to what he used to be. A hard working and efficient shooting guard. And i think that is still better than below average as suggested. If he AND DJ are below average... and apparently to some so is JI... and AG ain't nothing special and Vuc is "fake news"... God himself must have piloted us into the playoffs with the best record in the east for the last 1/3 of the season. lol

You're telling me you don't see the massive amount of interest in SG draft prospects around these parts???

There's a damn good reason for that.

ok.... i may or may not be wrong. BUT.... for sure the consensus is that we really need an upgrade at the PG position. DJ we love you... but you are not the PG of the future. Needless to say... fournier is a good player... had an off year and if coupled with a good pg... i and others do believe he will be a much better player and have a much better year. I also want an upgrade at the sg position.... because we have a draft pick and the sf, pf and c are currently set if nothing changes from this point on. A healthy Fultz will change the game for everyone including evan and especially vuc. Pick n roll with vuc all day. SO.... i'm not gonna bury fournier for one poor season.... but dang right I will continue shoring up the position for this season... and beyond fourniers contract. But... that doesn't mean i think he is garbage.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#286 » by JBSouthpaw » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:22 pm

Skin wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
Skin wrote:Well it's a whole lot less about mentor and a whole lot more about balance, chemistry and collecting the right kind of skills. Plus, Batum is flat out better than Fournier in most aspects of the game.

We have a massive hole at PG WITH Augustin. Without him we'll be able to give someone else a chance. There's no love lost. Hardly irreplaceable.

You don't have to get rid of DJ for another PG to have a chance. Fultz will get more than a fair chance.
And you can't claim chemistry will be better, Evan maybe Vuc's best friend. This move would be lateral at best.

Vuc may not even come back. Plus, the Evan/Vuc buddy ball plague is a core reason for shaky team chemistry. Batum fits the WeHam mold and is a point forward. It could be a lateral move but it's another step forward in reshaping the team in WeHam's image.


There is absolutely no proof of shaky team chemistry, probably the opposite after the making the playoffs run.
He's DEF not worth the extra 10M a year in 20-21 over Evan
at 30 Y.O. he doesn't fit the makeup of this team.
And he's not a SG, Batum is a SF.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#287 » by Message Boar » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:07 pm

From the last few pages I think Fournier for Hayward isn't realistic since Boston likely expect him to slowly get back to his pre-injury self and Batum isn't worth it considering his age and declining production, but Monte Morris still intrigues me if we'd be able to pull that off somehow.

Having said that, I've only seen him in a couple of games so I know him mostly by reputation (through other people's writings/podcasts), do you guys think he has any upside to develop further into something really good or would he be kind of a steward/placeholder while we keep looking for a true playmaker?

Also, I'm getting to the point that I might be okay keeping Evan around if the right deal isn't there, whereas before I wanted him pretty much gone no matter what. It's probably the lack of recent exposure.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#288 » by Skin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:11 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
Skin wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:You don't have to get rid of DJ for another PG to have a chance. Fultz will get more than a fair chance.
And you can't claim chemistry will be better, Evan maybe Vuc's best friend. This move would be lateral at best.

Vuc may not even come back. Plus, the Evan/Vuc buddy ball plague is a core reason for shaky team chemistry. Batum fits the WeHam mold and is a point forward. It could be a lateral move but it's another step forward in reshaping the team in WeHam's image.


There is absolutely no proof of shaky team chemistry, probably the opposite after the making the playoffs run.
He's DEF not worth the extra 10M a year in 20-21 over Evan
at 30 Y.O. he doesn't fit the makeup of this team.
And he's not a SG, Batum is a SF.

Yeah, one short lived playoff series does not erase years of poor team chemistry. We need to get rid of Fournier whose best days already seem over. It's a hard contract to move so we have to be realistic in terms of what we're can get back. Another player with an unwanted contact is that type of scenario. Batum is coming off a season shooting 39% from 3 while Fournier shot bricks most of the year. When you add in playmaking and defense, Batum is a clear upgrade. Yes, he is older and we need that kind of balance, especially if we draft another young wing player. Even though I literally just called him a point forward, he does have versatility at SG and was used in such ways.

How do you think Fournier will take to a young SG that we draft? Would he be willing to make room and help develop the guy brought in to take his job? Batum is older and more ready to do so. ...and again, that 7'4 wingspan is a WeHam covet.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#289 » by yoyojw17 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:41 pm

Skin wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
Skin wrote:Vuc may not even come back. Plus, the Evan/Vuc buddy ball plague is a core reason for shaky team chemistry. Batum fits the WeHam mold and is a point forward. It could be a lateral move but it's another step forward in reshaping the team in WeHam's image.


There is absolutely no proof of shaky team chemistry, probably the opposite after the making the playoffs run.
He's DEF not worth the extra 10M a year in 20-21 over Evan
at 30 Y.O. he doesn't fit the makeup of this team.
And he's not a SG, Batum is a SF.

Yeah, one short lived playoff series does not erase years of poor team chemistry. We need to get rid of Fournier whose best days already seem over. It's a hard contract to move so we have to be realistic in terms of what we're can get back. Another player with an unwanted contact is that type of scenario. Batum is coming off a season shooting 39% from 3 while Fournier shot bricks most of the year. When you add in playmaking and defense, Batum is a clear upgrade. Yes, he is older and we need that kind of balance, especially if we draft another young wing player. Even though I literally just called him a point forward, he does have versatility at SG and was used in such ways.

How do you think Fournier will take to a young SG that we draft? Would he be willing to make room and help develop the guy brought in to take his job? Batum is older and more ready to do so. ...and again, that 7'4 wingspan is a WeHam covet.


Hopefully the same way Vuc took it!

WHAAAAAT??? FOURNIER 2020 ALLSTAR GAME!!!! :lol: :lol:
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#290 » by Bensational » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:50 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
Skin wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
There is absolutely no proof of shaky team chemistry, probably the opposite after the making the playoffs run.
He's DEF not worth the extra 10M a year in 20-21 over Evan
at 30 Y.O. he doesn't fit the makeup of this team.
And he's not a SG, Batum is a SF.

Yeah, one short lived playoff series does not erase years of poor team chemistry. We need to get rid of Fournier whose best days already seem over. It's a hard contract to move so we have to be realistic in terms of what we're can get back. Another player with an unwanted contact is that type of scenario. Batum is coming off a season shooting 39% from 3 while Fournier shot bricks most of the year. When you add in playmaking and defense, Batum is a clear upgrade. Yes, he is older and we need that kind of balance, especially if we draft another young wing player. Even though I literally just called him a point forward, he does have versatility at SG and was used in such ways.

How do you think Fournier will take to a young SG that we draft? Would he be willing to make room and help develop the guy brought in to take his job? Batum is older and more ready to do so. ...and again, that 7'4 wingspan is a WeHam covet.


Hopefully the same way Vuc took it!

WHAAAAAT??? FOURNIER 2020 ALLSTAR GAME!!!! :lol: :lol:


In a world where we can get D'Lo and not have to give up Fournier, I would keep Fournier at least til the allstar break. The guy does have a lot of talent, and a new guard oriented offense might bring that out in him. Or, it might take him away from the strengths he's developed from playing alongside Vuc for so long.

I still see so much talent in Fournier, I'm just not sure what can be done to bring it out of him. As a sniper behind a legit big 2, he would probably be a bit of a weapon. I think a new system could help freshen his game up, though.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#291 » by Skin » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:06 am

Bensational wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:
Skin wrote:Yeah, one short lived playoff series does not erase years of poor team chemistry. We need to get rid of Fournier whose best days already seem over. It's a hard contract to move so we have to be realistic in terms of what we're can get back. Another player with an unwanted contact is that type of scenario. Batum is coming off a season shooting 39% from 3 while Fournier shot bricks most of the year. When you add in playmaking and defense, Batum is a clear upgrade. Yes, he is older and we need that kind of balance, especially if we draft another young wing player. Even though I literally just called him a point forward, he does have versatility at SG and was used in such ways.

How do you think Fournier will take to a young SG that we draft? Would he be willing to make room and help develop the guy brought in to take his job? Batum is older and more ready to do so. ...and again, that 7'4 wingspan is a WeHam covet.


Hopefully the same way Vuc took it!

WHAAAAAT??? FOURNIER 2020 ALLSTAR GAME!!!! :lol: :lol:


In a world where we can get D'Lo and not have to give up Fournier, I would keep Fournier at least til the allstar break. The guy does have a lot of talent, and a new guard oriented offense might bring that out in him. Or, it might take him away from the strengths he's developed from playing alongside Vuc for so long.

I still see so much talent in Fournier, I'm just not sure what can be done to bring it out of him. As a sniper behind a legit big 2, he would probably be a bit of a weapon. I think a new system could help freshen his game up, though.

The role that I always liked for Evan was as a 6th man, but he's overpaid for that role now and I don't think he would accept coming off the bench either. Ideally, something like Eric Gordon behind CP3 and Harden... or Iggy behind Steph/Klay. Just goes to show how far away we really are in terms of our backcourt strength.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#292 » by SD2042 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:16 am

Message Boar wrote:From the last few pages I think Fournier for Hayward isn't realistic since Boston likely expect him to slowly get back to his pre-injury self and Batum isn't worth it considering his age and declining production, but Monte Morris still intrigues me if we'd be able to pull that off somehow.

Having said that, I've only seen him in a couple of games so I know him mostly by reputation (through other people's writings/podcasts), do you guys think he has any upside to develop further into something really good or would he be kind of a steward/placeholder while we keep looking for a true playmaker?

Also, I'm getting to the point that I might be okay keeping Evan around if the right deal isn't there, whereas before I wanted him pretty much gone no matter what. It's probably the lack of recent exposure.


Monte Morris was a player I mentioned for the Magic to look into at the trade deadline from February. I tried to work in a scenario that best works out for both Magic and Nuggets. I wasn't able to come up with one that made sense. Tyus Jones is the other PG I'm still considering the Magic should get after once free agency hits. I do not expect the Magic to find a solid playmaker in the draft due to a lack of quality PGs at our draft position.

As for any Fournier deals, Fournier is okay for what he does regardless of how the season went for him. However, I do agree that his value isn't as high for the Magic to score any Bradley Beal deals anytime soon. If Fournier brought more intangibles to the team, some of the fans would be pro-Fournier. Plus his value would be up more and better deals could be on the table.

If Fournier was to be traded this summer, I have a feeling that it would be in a deal that no one would see coming.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#293 » by Shady Franchise » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:44 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
Shady Franchise wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:Evan and Moz to BOS for Hayward and the 20th pick. (even money this year)
AG & 20th pic to LAC for Shai & Harrell (we get about 6M is savings, they still can add 2 max players)
Decline Ross
Sign Jeremy Lamb (should be around the Mid-level) He's 26
resign Vuc

Shai/Fultz
Lamb/16th pic
Hayward/Wes
J.I./Harrell
Vuc/Mo

End up with better shooting, better PG, still good defense.
Fultz could swing between Guard positions


Wishful thinking. Will never happen! If they won't trade him for AD, then what makes you think they'll do it for Gordon?

Of course it's wishful thinking.
My thought is, for AD they were going to have to give up a lot more than Shai. You've seen what N.O. is requesting???
Trading for AG, they'd actually get a pick back, plus a very good young player on an excellent contract.
And they'd still have the $$ to add 2 all stars, and say Butler and Kawai aren't going to want a 20 y.o. PG.


Ok, all of that makes some sense, but we are not getting Shai for Gordon + a non lottery pick. Gordon and the pick don't carry the same upside that Shai is already showing. The issue isn't LAC trading Shai, it's Orlando getting Shai for lesser pieces.
Do not max Vuc!
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#294 » by Bensational » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:18 pm

If the Wolves decided they wanted out from under Wiggins' contract and offered him for Fournier + DJ, would you take it? If they insisted the #16 be included?

Am I crazy for saying yes to both without hesitation, or am I crazy for thinking Minnesota would ever give him away for so little?

Whilst I don't think Wiggins will ever live up to the hype he brought from high school, I do think he could have a serviceable DeRozan-like career. Who knows, maybe Clifford would be the guy to get it out of him?
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#295 » by MoMM » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:27 pm

Bensational wrote:If the Wolves decided they wanted out from under Wiggins' contract and offered him for Fournier + DJ, would you take it? If they insisted the #16 be included?

Am I crazy for saying yes to both without hesitation, or am I crazy for thinking Minnesota would ever give him away for so little?

Whilst I don't think Wiggins will ever live up to the hype he brought from high school, I do think he could have a serviceable DeRozan-like career. Who knows, maybe Clifford would be the guy to get it out of him?

No way, Wiggins is fool's gold.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#296 » by PrimeThyme » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:35 pm

Bensational wrote:If the Wolves decided they wanted out from under Wiggins' contract and offered him for Fournier + DJ, would you take it? If they insisted the #16 be included?

Am I crazy for saying yes to both without hesitation, or am I crazy for thinking Minnesota would ever give him away for so little?

Whilst I don't think Wiggins will ever live up to the hype he brought from high school, I do think he could have a serviceable DeRozan-like career. Who knows, maybe Clifford would be the guy to get it out of him?

Absolutely. No way in hell would I take on that poison pill of a contract. Andrew Wiggins is a bad basketball player. He is a high volume low efficient scorer that is a liability defensively. He is not showing improvement in those areas either, and his OBPM has gotten worse each year of his career (was a -1.7 last year). He also had a 12.4 PER last year and had -0.6 OWS's. His first three seasons actually gave you a sliver of hope that he could turn into a decent offensive player someday but since he got payed he has regressed significantly on that end the last 2 years.

Our FO is too smart and cap conscious to take on a contract like that. He has 4 years left on his max contract and will be making 30 plus million his last two years. Zero interest for me.
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#297 » by zaymon » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:57 pm

Bensational wrote:If the Wolves decided they wanted out from under Wiggins' contract and offered him for Fournier + DJ, would you take it? If they insisted the #16 be included?

Am I crazy for saying yes to both without hesitation, or am I crazy for thinking Minnesota would ever give him away for so little?

Whilst I don't think Wiggins will ever live up to the hype he brought from high school, I do think he could have a serviceable DeRozan-like career. Who knows, maybe Clifford would be the guy to get it out of him?

Fournier + Dj + 16 for Wiggins 33M until 2022/2023? Wow your ideas are getting worse and worse. Fournier is a better player twice as cheap and you want to include Dj AND #16 too? Billy King is that you?
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#298 » by ezzzp » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:50 pm

Skin wrote:You're telling me you don't see the massive amount of interest in SG draft prospects around these parts???

There's a damn good reason for that.


Yea, that reason is that Terrence Ross is an unrestricted free agent.

The closest thing to replacing him and his bench scoring is Melvyn Frazier...who btw has fractured in tibia, same thing that kept Bamba and Isaac out a full season.

Plus there is still no longterm solution at PG (outside of Fultz mystery). So just like last year, there is still a need for ball handlers at any of the guards/wings slots.

...and there is still need for shooting on roster (which is usually best found in wing prospects).
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#299 » by Skin » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:05 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Skin wrote:You're telling me you don't see the massive amount of interest in SG draft prospects around these parts???

There's a damn good reason for that.


Yea, that reason is that Terrence Ross is an unrestricted free agent.

The closest thing to replacing him and his bench scoring is Melvyn Frazier...who btw has fractured in tibia, same thing that kept Bamba and Isaac out a full season.

Plus there is still no longterm solution at PG (outside of Fultz mystery). So just like last year, there is still a need for ball handlers at any of the guards/wings slots.

...and there is still need for shooting on roster (which is usually best found in wing prospects).

Are you referring to when T-Ross leaves when Vuc leaves or is your scenario with T-Ross leaving even after Vuc stays?
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Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#300 » by ezzzp » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:12 pm

Skin wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Skin wrote:You're telling me you don't see the massive amount of interest in SG draft prospects around these parts???

There's a damn good reason for that.


Yea, that reason is that Terrence Ross is an unrestricted free agent.

The closest thing to replacing him and his bench scoring is Melvyn Frazier...who btw has fractured in tibia, same thing that kept Bamba and Isaac out a full season.

Plus there is still no longterm solution at PG (outside of Fultz mystery). So just like last year, there is still a need for ball handlers at any of the guards/wings slots.

...and there is still need for shooting on roster (which is usually best found in wing prospects).


Are you referring to when T-Ross leaves when Vuc leaves or is your scenario with T-Ross leaving even after Vuc stays?


No, I'm referring to a FO preparing for their future and current roster context.

Did the Magic need more shooting and ball handling on last year's roster - one which included Vucevic and Ross? YES.

Do the Magic project to need shooting and ball handling on their next year's roster - with or without Vucevic and Ross? YES

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