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Kyrie Irving Goodbye Thread

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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#281 » by Triple7 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:35 am

Jaqua92 wrote:
Triple7 wrote:
John Murdoch wrote:
Ehh i wouldnt say Dbook , more Lillard range but ik what u mean


If Curry didn’t play with Klay, he’d be like kyrie with better shooting, and with no defense as well.
This makes me feel so much more confident in disagreeing with your AD takes. Curry is one of the offensive GOATS. Kyrie with better shooting..please.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


One of the offensive GOATS? I don’t think so. He’s not unguardable like the true offensive goats. Didn’t seem like one in the finals when defense was focusing on him alone. He’s the best 3pt shooter of all time, i’ll give him that. He’s also one of the worst defenders at his position. Plus i don’t agree with your all or nothing fan boy takes on AD as well.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#282 » by Gooner » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:41 am

sully00 wrote:
Gooner wrote:
CeltsfaninDC wrote:WAS...... he hasn’t won much of anything in a while now. He had a chance this year and decided instead to cause a ruckus. I’ll bet he won’t win next year in NJ either.


He had one bad year, that's it.


As far as being a champ and stud he had two bad years to go with the bad years before his Daddy came to CLE. Basically Kyrie is as much of champ as J.R. Smith. The facts are Boston was better without him than with him and probably will be again.


His team had two bad years when his best teammate was young Dion Waiters, and Kyrie himself was 19-20 years old. That doesn't prove anything. JR Smith is a champ too, he earned it, he played a big part in it. Kyrie obviously, played much bigger part.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#283 » by djFan71 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:44 am

Triple7 wrote:
Jaqua92 wrote:
Triple7 wrote:
If Curry didn’t play with Klay, he’d be like kyrie with better shooting, and with no defense as well.
This makes me feel so much more confident in disagreeing with your AD takes. Curry is one of the offensive GOATS. Kyrie with better shooting..please.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


One of the offensive GOATS? I don’t think so. He’s not unguardable like the true offensive goats. Didn’t seem like one in the finals when defense was focusing on him alone. He’s the best 3pt shooter of all time, i’ll give him that. He’s also one of the worst defenders at his position. Plus i don’t agree with your all or nothing fan boy takes on AD as well.

Absolutely an offensive GOAT. When did Jordan win a title with Pippen injured? Larry without McHale? Etc, etc. Dude was literally box and 1ed in the NBA FINALS!!! Box and 1ed. In the NBA FINALS!!! That’s insane.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#284 » by Gooner » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:49 am

threrf23 wrote:
Gooner wrote:
He had one bad year, that's it.


In Cleveland, in came out well after the fact, but he was pissed when they traded for Lebron because he Aapparently wanted to be the face of the franchise more than he wanted to win.

Their championship, everyone remembers Kyrie's shot. But that postseason, the Cavs played slightly better with Kyrie on the bench than on the floor.

The following postseason, word was he literally stopped talking to his teammates. He didn't play so bad per se, but he likely contributed strongly to an atmosphere that sabotaged his team's chances at a repeat. Then he had the nerve to get on ESPN and talk up himself saying he was raised to be honorable so he continued to give it his all even though he had decided that he wanted out of Cleveland.

Game 7 vs Cleveland - he wasn't on the sideline because he thought it was more important to recover from from minor nasal surgery in Cleveland on a Sunday evening.

One bad year? You are missing the point. He had a good year, maybe one of his best, maybe even his best. But he has a track record that suggests he is a loser, and his showing against the Bucks - attitude as much or more than anything else - helps solidify it.


I don't care if he was pissed, he adjusted to LeBron when he came and played his role to perfection, helping them win the championship in the process. That's all that matters.

I don't care if he stopped talking to his teammates, that's locker room stuff. He played great on the court and they played great as a team. Bird's Celtics had people that didn't like each other in the locker room, but nobody cares about that, it's about winning. When I see Kyrie's former teammates in Cleveland talk about him, most of them like him.

Once again, calling someone who is a champion a loser is just a silly attempt to discredit someone who you don't personally like. His showing against the Bucks was poor, no doubt, but that's all it was, a poor series. He will learn from it.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#285 » by Triple7 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:09 am

djFan71 wrote:
Triple7 wrote:
Jaqua92 wrote:This makes me feel so much more confident in disagreeing with your AD takes. Curry is one of the offensive GOATS. Kyrie with better shooting..please.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


One of the offensive GOATS? I don’t think so. He’s not unguardable like the true offensive goats. Didn’t seem like one in the finals when defense was focusing on him alone. He’s the best 3pt shooter of all time, i’ll give him that. He’s also one of the worst defenders at his position. Plus i don’t agree with your all or nothing fan boy takes on AD as well.

Absolutely an offensive GOAT. When did Jordan win a title with Pippen injured? Larry without McHale? Etc, etc. Dude was literally box and 1ed in the NBA FINALS!!! Box and 1ed. In the NBA FINALS!!! That’s insane.


True offensive GOAT’s can carry his team’s offense alone when needed. Of course nobody can win the title alone. That wasn’t my point when i said Curry is like kyrie with better shooting and poor defense without Klay. Without Klay, Curry will be exposed as an awful defender, and as someone who can’t carry the offensive load when he has to. He’s not like MJ, Kobe, KD, and even Harden of offense. Those guys are unguardable and can’t be defended one on one. Not like Curry. Im not saying he’s not good offensively, but he’s nowhere near GOAT level.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#286 » by djFan71 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:55 am

Triple7 wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
Triple7 wrote:
One of the offensive GOATS? I don’t think so. He’s not unguardable like the true offensive goats. Didn’t seem like one in the finals when defense was focusing on him alone. He’s the best 3pt shooter of all time, i’ll give him that. He’s also one of the worst defenders at his position. Plus i don’t agree with your all or nothing fan boy takes on AD as well.

Absolutely an offensive GOAT. When did Jordan win a title with Pippen injured? Larry without McHale? Etc, etc. Dude was literally box and 1ed in the NBA FINALS!!! Box and 1ed. In the NBA FINALS!!! That’s insane.


True offensive GOAT’s can carry his team’s offense alone when needed. Of course nobody can win the title alone. That wasn’t my point when i said Curry is like kyrie with better shooting and poor defense without Klay. Without Klay, Curry will be exposed as an awful defender, and as someone who can’t carry the offensive load when he has to. He’s not like MJ, Kobe, KD, and even Harden of offense. Those guys are unguardable and can’t be defended one on one. Not like Curry. Im not saying he’s not good offensively, but he’s nowhere near GOAT level.

He scored 47 points in game 3 with no Klay or KD. He’s redefined where you need to defend on the court. He was absolutely not being defended one on one. The Raptors warped their entire defense to stop him and dare what remained of the Ws to beat them and they couldn’t.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#287 » by Triple7 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:05 am

djFan71 wrote:
Triple7 wrote:
djFan71 wrote:Absolutely an offensive GOAT. When did Jordan win a title with Pippen injured? Larry without McHale? Etc, etc. Dude was literally box and 1ed in the NBA FINALS!!! Box and 1ed. In the NBA FINALS!!! That’s insane.


True offensive GOAT’s can carry his team’s offense alone when needed. Of course nobody can win the title alone. That wasn’t my point when i said Curry is like kyrie with better shooting and poor defense without Klay. Without Klay, Curry will be exposed as an awful defender, and as someone who can’t carry the offensive load when he has to. He’s not like MJ, Kobe, KD, and even Harden of offense. Those guys are unguardable and can’t be defended one on one. Not like Curry. Im not saying he’s not good offensively, but he’s nowhere near GOAT level.

He scored 47 points in game 3 with no Klay or KD. He’s redefined where you need to defend on the court. He was absolutely not being defended one on one. The Raptors warped their entire defense to stop him and dare what remained of the Ws to beat them and they couldn’t.

He made 13 ft’s, 6-14 3’s. His 3’s are mostly on catch and shoot and through screens. He’s one damn shooter. The best there is ever, but i haven’t seen him takeover a game one on one, especially in closing minutes, where you give him the ball and he does his thing. Not like a Kobe, Mj, KD or Harden. You give them the ball and you move out of the way. Curry can’t do that. That’s why he’s limited offensively. Heck even Kyrie is more unstoppable than Curry offensively, especially when his shot is falling.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#288 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:07 am

The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:I do wonder when people are going to stop bringing up sign-and-trades because they pretty much never happen with the new CBA. There is no chance whatsoever that there will be a sign trade with Irving.
Plus the nets have two Max spots available. Why would they bother with this sign and trade nonsense?


A. Don’t rule any options out - who saw the Rockets getting Chris Paul the way they did?

B. To max Kyrie and Harris outright, the Nets have to renounce Russell *and* the holds for Ed Davis and RHJ - two rotation players for them, part of the culture, tough to replace with vet minimum signings - *or* renounce Davis and RHJ and find takers for Dinwiddie and Joe Harris who don’t send back any salary. All feasible, but they’ll lose serious depth and asset value.

Kyrie-for-DAR lets them max Tobias Harris, upgrade at the point, and keep Dinwiddie, Joe Harris, Ed Davis and RHJ.

They get some flexibility if Harris takes less than his full 32 million to play in Brooklyn - but I think he can get that on the market..
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#289 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:09 am

(B. continued: basically it’s an unusual situation where everyone involved has incentive to cooperate.)
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#290 » by djFan71 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:09 am

Triple7 wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
Triple7 wrote:
True offensive GOAT’s can carry his team’s offense alone when needed. Of course nobody can win the title alone. That wasn’t my point when i said Curry is like kyrie with better shooting and poor defense without Klay. Without Klay, Curry will be exposed as an awful defender, and as someone who can’t carry the offensive load when he has to. He’s not like MJ, Kobe, KD, and even Harden of offense. Those guys are unguardable and can’t be defended one on one. Not like Curry. Im not saying he’s not good offensively, but he’s nowhere near GOAT level.

He scored 47 points in game 3 with no Klay or KD. He’s redefined where you need to defend on the court. He was absolutely not being defended one on one. The Raptors warped their entire defense to stop him and dare what remained of the Ws to beat them and they couldn’t.

He made 13 ft’s, 6-14 3’s. His 3’s are mostly on catch and shoot and through screens. He’s one damn shooter. The best there is ever, but i haven’t seen him takeover a game one on one, especially in closing minutes, where you give him the ball and he does his thing. Not like a Kobe, Mj, KD or Harden. You give them the ball and you move out of the way. Curry can’t do that. That’s why he’s limited offensively. Heck even Kyrie is more unstoppable than Curry offensively, especially when his shot is falling.

So, we’re talking ISOs? Then fine, he’s not a goat iso guy. Agreed. But as far as an offensive weapon, I put him up there with the best of all time.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#291 » by Triple7 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:14 am

djFan71 wrote:
Triple7 wrote:
djFan71 wrote:He scored 47 points in game 3 with no Klay or KD. He’s redefined where you need to defend on the court. He was absolutely not being defended one on one. The Raptors warped their entire defense to stop him and dare what remained of the Ws to beat them and they couldn’t.

He made 13 ft’s, 6-14 3’s. His 3’s are mostly on catch and shoot and through screens. He’s one damn shooter. The best there is ever, but i haven’t seen him takeover a game one on one, especially in closing minutes, where you give him the ball and he does his thing. Not like a Kobe, Mj, KD or Harden. You give them the ball and you move out of the way. Curry can’t do that. That’s why he’s limited offensively. Heck even Kyrie is more unstoppable than Curry offensively, especially when his shot is falling.

So, we’re talking ISOs? Then fine, he’s not a goat iso guy. Agreed. But as far as an offensive weapon, I put him up there with the best of all time.


Yup i kind of remember guys like Mj, Kobe and KD, where if they are hot, it seems like they can’t miss at all, and opposing teams can’t do anything about it. They even double triple team, and still can’t do anything about stopping them. They can be unstoppable inside and outside. That’s my version of offensive Goat.
With prolific scorers as Pg’s. I have iverson at the top, then Dame, kyrie and curry in no particular order.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#292 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:45 am

Don’t want to get into it, but Curry before coach Kerr and Draymond was considered just another star - his elite shooting combined with the Warriors’ unique systems made him much more brightly shine. Is that unlocking his potential or elevating him to greater heights?

Curry is a little bit like peak Steve Nash - when you put him in the right situation and let him do his thing, he’s MVP caliber - and Curry more than Nash can star in the postseason and halfcourt. Curry’s shooting is special, not just the percentages but the range and the kinds of shots he can get off. Seth Curry has shot 43 percent on a season from 3, and he’s obviously not the same player. But I don’t see Steph as someone who would have made his way to greatness no matter what, a guy who could demand a trade from a losing team for a superstar package. If GS had made different choices, he might be closer in status to Kemba Walker, an underrated omghow’dhedothat player who hasn’t had good luck in teammates.

Or think peak Kevin Love his last great year in Minnesota, and imagine he’d been traded to a team built entirely to his strengths, with at least one fluke teammate on par with Draymond Green..

Like, Kent Bazemore and Wes Matthews as the starting backcourt, Myles Turner at the 5, no pressure to score or rebound, just defend and stretch the floor - Ben Simmons as the starting small forward, the primary ballhandler/point, and Kevin Love at the 4, spamming Simmons/Love pick and rolls, letting Love get to his spots and rebound the hell out of the ball.. maybe he wins a championship and looks like a Hall of Famer. That lineup probably has less talent than the Warriors, tbh..
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#293 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:49 am

Triple7 wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
Triple7 wrote:He made 13 ft’s, 6-14 3’s. His 3’s are mostly on catch and shoot and through screens. He’s one damn shooter. The best there is ever, but i haven’t seen him takeover a game one on one, especially in closing minutes, where you give him the ball and he does his thing. Not like a Kobe, Mj, KD or Harden. You give them the ball and you move out of the way. Curry can’t do that. That’s why he’s limited offensively. Heck even Kyrie is more unstoppable than Curry offensively, especially when his shot is falling.

So, we’re talking ISOs? Then fine, he’s not a goat iso guy. Agreed. But as far as an offensive weapon, I put him up there with the best of all time.


Yup i kind of remember guys like Mj, Kobe and KD, where if they are hot, it seems like they can’t miss at all, and opposing teams can’t do anything about it. They even double triple team, and still can’t do anything about stopping them. They can be unstoppable inside and outside. That’s my version of offensive Goat.
With prolific scorers as Pg’s. I have iverson at the top, then Dame, kyrie and curry in no particular order.

You guys may be talking about different things.

Offensive impact does not necessarily equate to being a prolific, unstoppable scorer alone. Curry is close to Harden in terms of offensive impact because he can draw multiple defenders, he needs to be defended far beyond the arc, he's great at reading the defense, he's an above average passer against double teams, and he's terrific in his ability to free himself moving off the ball. He got "exposed" in the series because most times, esp whenever Klay was not on the floor, his other teammates were non-threats to score from outside. The only times Curry had one man on him or near him was when Raptors defense broke down.

Curry is definitely better than Kyrie if offensive impact is the standard and not just the ability to iso.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#294 » by MyBoyBlu » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:56 am

djFan71 wrote:
LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:I do wonder when people are going to stop bringing up sign-and-trades because they pretty much never happen with the new CBA. There is no chance whatsoever that there will be a sign trade with Irving.
Plus the nets have two Max spots available. Why would they bother with this sign and trade nonsense?
Only possible reason would be if they wanted a little more than 2 max slots so we'd take back someone under contract in that scenario . They certainly wouldn't do DRuss for Kyrie like many suggest as they can just renounce DRuss for the space.

If they s&t they can do 2 maxes AND keep Russell by signing him last.
Everyone understands the possibility of it happening is low. But it is possible and you can come up with win win scenarios.


No they can't because of Russell's hold FFS
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#295 » by FlatearthZorro » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:00 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:
Triple7 wrote:
djFan71 wrote:So, we’re talking ISOs? Then fine, he’s not a goat iso guy. Agreed. But as far as an offensive weapon, I put him up there with the best of all time.


Yup i kind of remember guys like Mj, Kobe and KD, where if they are hot, it seems like they can’t miss at all, and opposing teams can’t do anything about it. They even double triple team, and still can’t do anything about stopping them. They can be unstoppable inside and outside. That’s my version of offensive Goat.
With prolific scorers as Pg’s. I have iverson at the top, then Dame, kyrie and curry in no particular order.

You guys may be talking about different things.

Offensive impact does not necessarily equate to being a prolific, unstoppable scorer alone. Curry is close to Harden in terms of offensive impact because he can draw multiple defenders, he needs to be defended far beyond the arc, he's great at reading the defense, he's an above average passer against double teams, and he's terrific in his ability to free himself moving off the ball. He got "exposed" in the series because most times, esp whenever Klay was not on the floor, his other teammates were non-threats to score from outside. The only times Curry had one man on him or near him was when Raptors defense broke down.

Curry is definitely better than Kyrie if offensive impact is the standard and not just the ability to iso.


That's not even a question. Curry is far superior to Kyrie. Kyrie can go toe to toe with him in games, but Curry is just far better. As you pointed out Curry passes well out of double(vs the Raptors at times triple teams), Kyrie on the other against the Bucks instead of passing shot horrid contested shots(at times by 2 defenders) or turned the ball over which in both cases often led to fast break points for the Bucks- at that time Kyrie was jogging back and the Bucks had 5 on 4 with mismatches everywhere. To me Irving was more than 50% of the reason we lost to the Bucks. Imo without Kyrie we take the Bucks to 6. If Kyrie adjusted we could've won that series in 5 or 6.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#296 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:03 am

It's really looking like Brooklyn right now if reports are to be believed, but man, I have so much crow to stuff in my stupid mouth if he re-signs with Boston.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#297 » by Triple7 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:50 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:
Triple7 wrote:
djFan71 wrote:So, we’re talking ISOs? Then fine, he’s not a goat iso guy. Agreed. But as far as an offensive weapon, I put him up there with the best of all time.


Yup i kind of remember guys like Mj, Kobe and KD, where if they are hot, it seems like they can’t miss at all, and opposing teams can’t do anything about it. They even double triple team, and still can’t do anything about stopping them. They can be unstoppable inside and outside. That’s my version of offensive Goat.
With prolific scorers as Pg’s. I have iverson at the top, then Dame, kyrie and curry in no particular order.

You guys may be talking about different things.

Offensive impact does not necessarily equate to being a prolific, unstoppable scorer alone. Curry is close to Harden in terms of offensive impact because he can draw multiple defenders, he needs to be defended far beyond the arc, he's great at reading the defense, he's an above average passer against double teams, and he's terrific in his ability to free himself moving off the ball. He got "exposed" in the series because most times, esp whenever Klay was not on the floor, his other teammates were non-threats to score from outside. The only times Curry had one man on him or near him was when Raptors defense broke down.

Curry is definitely better than Kyrie if offensive impact is the standard and not just the ability to iso.


Yup were probably thinking different. My offensive Goats are guys like MJ, Kobe and KD. Guys that can carry the offensive load all the time and not rely on a system to be effective, which i think curry benefits from. I can’t deny his offensive impact though, especially being a unselfish player and willing passer, as compared to a kyrie. I think kyrie is a better one on one player than steph is. MJ, Kobe, KD and even Harden are different animals. They are unstoppable offensively. They can all score at will. Curry needs a system to be effective. The way the warriors play is exactly suited for curry and klay.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#298 » by peachbucket » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:04 am

Bye bye lil bitch
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#299 » by FlatearthZorro » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:26 am

If irving does indeed leave and they pair him with Russell it would be hilarious. Both are awful on defense, both don't care that much about defense, it will be a disaster within 2-3 months.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#300 » by Triple7 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:28 am

FlatearthZorro wrote:If irving does indeed leave and they pair him with Russell it would be hilarious. Both are awful on defense, both don't care that much about defense, it will be a disaster within 2-3 months.

isos every play :lol:

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