2019 NBA draft part deux

[twix2500]

I think the Wolves should draft Clarke or Porter Jr. They would look nice next to Wiggins.

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[Mattya]

You can be a fan of a player, and still be critical, without blindly expecting improvement from someone who has shown none in that regard.

I'm not blindly expecting improvement, but I'm also not completely disregarding the possibility of improvement like so many here have done.

As for not showing improvement....while his shot form is still not great, it has still come a long ways from what it was at San Jose State. I find it highly unlikely that he's done tweaking it.

You bring up Leonard's shooting coaches....one of those is someone the team has had discussions about bringing on staff. Not sure where that stands right now, but the staff knows it's important to upgrade our shooting coaches.

I've said he can improve, but that is a long shot. He came a long way from San Jose State as a younger player going from the college to NBA 3 point line. Clarke on the other hand has shown practically no improvement from the college line while also having 2 extra years to improve. How is that even a comparison worthy of making? At some point there needs to be some acknowledgement that he has limited potential to improve to respectable outside the arc. He is far behind the curve. If we are just going to ignore the age factor in this Kawhi outlier comparison then we should also take a look at all the players who never improved from outside the arc. People are still waiting on Rubio, MKG, RHJ to improve their broken shots.

We have heard nothing about the Spurs assistant since we hired Vanterpool. I'm not banking on that.

[minimus]

Exactly. I think we absolutely need to hire right, good player development coaches and draft BPA. My top5 are Nassir Little, Seikou, NAW, Smamanic or Bitadze.

[Neeva]

I think the Wolves should draft Clarke or Porter Jr. They would look nice next to Wiggins.

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MIami can have them
Hopefully this staff can develop boom players, sekou or Little.

[Killboard]

Clarke has no skill, if you think he’s a sure thing @ 11 you’re a moron. Literally all the ppl he’s compared to we’re diamond in the rough 2nd round picks that usually wouldn’t work out 97% of the time; now you want to waste a lotto on that?

Wesley it seems like you are getting upset now. To me you are not looking at Clarke rationally at all. Having a combined 6 steals/blocks per game is an incredible skill. Shooting with the amazing touch he has out to 15 feet is an incredible skill. Jumping the way he does and timing his jumps perfectly for lobs, put back dunks, and blocked shots is an incredible skill. He shot 2 point jumpers at 52%. You know how few players can do that? How can he do all that and you say he has no skill?

Steals and blocks are more hustle than skill, his size won’t translate to the next level around the rim on offense or defense... he wasn’t going up against guys like Towns, Gobert, Embiid Jokic etc

Hustle is a skill as is insticts, reads and anticipation. He never had size adventage at any level and he still had a terrific development. I hope we take him, NAW or trade back, but I would prefer to use the pick in an experienced young playmaker.

[KGdaBom]

Clarke has no skill, if you think he’s a sure thing @ 11 you’re a moron. Literally all the ppl he’s compared to we’re diamond in the rough 2nd round picks that usually wouldn’t work out 97% of the time; now you want to waste a lotto on that?

Wesley it seems like you are getting upset now. To me you are not looking at Clarke rationally at all. Having a combined 6 steals/blocks per game is an incredible skill. Shooting with the amazing touch he has out to 15 feet is an incredible skill. Jumping the way he does and timing his jumps perfectly for lobs, put back dunks, and blocked shots is an incredible skill. He shot 2 point jumpers at 52%. You know how few players can do that? How can he do all that and you say he has no skill?

Steals and blocks are more hustle than skill, his size won’t translate to the next level around the rim on offense or defense... he wasn’t going up against guys like Towns, Gobert, Embiid Jokic etc

Neither were the other college players. The best players they were going up against were Zion and Clarke. Clarke was like Kryptonite to these other college players. You're just not getting this.

[KGdaBom]

Little has been showing his shot during workouts and I’m not concerned

And I can say the same thing about Clarke.

And it’d be a boldfaced lie, his shot is broke!

His jump shot was so broke that he made 52% of them. Better than almost everybody.

[KGdaBom]

Wesley it seems like you are getting upset now. To me you are not looking at Clarke rationally at all. Having a combined 6 steals/blocks per game is an incredible skill. Shooting with the amazing touch he has out to 15 feet is an incredible skill. Jumping the way he does and timing his jumps perfectly for lobs, put back dunks, and blocked shots is an incredible skill. He shot 2 point jumpers at 52%. You know how few players can do that? How can he do all that and you say he has no skill?

Steals and blocks are more hustle than skill, his size won’t translate to the next level around the rim on offense or defense... he wasn’t going up against guys like Towns, Gobert, Embiid Jokic etc

Steals and blocks are all timing and processing the flow of play.

And the level that Clarke does that is a great skill.

[KGdaBom]

clarkes stats as an 18 year old in a weak conference were?

Per 40 freshman numbers
16.3 ppg, 12.6 rpg
14.3 ppg, 11.0 rpg

The second line were Clarke's numbers as a freshman, the first were Kawhi Leonard's as a freshman in the same weak conference. Not a huge difference.

Lol and littles per 40 stats in a much stronger conference 21.5 and 10.1
If little improves the way clarke did with age we got freaking leonard-lite.
Wolves got a steal. So you wanna use littles stats as an 18 year old against him?

How efficient was his scoring? How many blocks and steals did he get?

[KGdaBom]

So you wanna use littles stats as an 18 year old against him?

I'm not using his scoring numbers against him, I'm using his shooting percentage against him. Supposedly Little is this great shooter, but shot only 26%. Are the numbers lying?

But hey, I guess that doesn't matter because he has long arms...

Klomp don't you know this is the modern NBA. It doesn't matter if you can play basketball. It just matters how long your arms are.

[KGdaBom]

So you wanna use littles stats as an 18 year old against him?

I'm not using his scoring numbers against him, I'm using his shooting percentage against him. Supposedly Little is this great shooter, but shot only 26%. Are the numbers lying?

But hey, I guess that doesn't matter because he has long arms...

He has shot well in workouts enough to elevate concerns apparently. This has been said. Pretty small sample size otherwise.

I think you mean alleviate concerns. If it were elevating concerns he would be dropping to the second round or off draft boards. Now when Clarke makes 75 percent of his 3s during workouts that should be alleviating concerns as well.

[KGdaBom]

He has shot well in workouts enough to elevate concerns apparently. This has been said. Pretty small sample size otherwise.

As has Clarke. Some just have blinders on....

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

No one is bragging about Clarke's shot in workouts. Those tweets don't mean much. His mechanics are awful and in his four years of college he has done nothing to improve it. You know a big red flag, being 23 and not thinking it important to learn to shoot...just saying...

I'm bragging about Clarke's 2 point jumper. 52%. You have to respect it and when you do he takes you to the hoop.

[KGdaBom]

Supposedly every other player in the Top 20 can score at all THREE levels....

Read on Twitter

THIS!
And people don't get how big that is.

[KGdaBom]

The Reality is Clarke barely shot anything outside 15 feet, not exactly "jumper" area.

Sure it is.

But if you want to be technical, are runners/floaters not important? Especially for someone with length concerns, I'd argue it's a great skill to have and isn't brought up enough.

15 Feet is exactly a jumper. And Clarke shot them incredibly well. He shot everything around the rim incredibly well also. Yet some people try to act like he can't shoot. It's mind numbing.

[KGdaBom]

Clarke will never be more than a shooter when he is wide open.

And that's fine. We don't need him to be taking contested 3s. Heck, no player should be taking contested 3s if there's an open man.

As for his form, does it really matter as long as it goes in at a decent rate? What was Kevin Martin's form like? Good form doesn't automatically equate to good shooter just like bad form doesn't automatically equate to bad shooter.

Finally, I'm reminded of another player whose shot was broken when he came into the league. Was a career 25% shooter in college from long range. His name is Kawhi Leonard.

So using phrases like "will never be" just seem foolish, because I'm guessing you would've used the same logic back in 2011, when we drafted someone instead who made 57% of 3-pointers his last year in school. So glad we drafted Klay Thompson! Oh, it was Derrick Williams? My bad....

There is a big difference between wide open and contested 3s. This seems like just muddying the discussion. The problem with players who can shoot unless they are wide open is that defenses don't even need to react to them on rotations. We saw it with Rubio. Then especially in late game offense just grinds to a stop. Some players should absolutely be shooting contested 3s over wide open players if they can't shoot or get shots for themselves.

Kevin Martin was never a bad shooter and outside of his load up his release was great. Most of his offensive effectiveness came from drawing fouls though. This isn't at all relatable to Clarke. Typically bad form, bad mechanics and bad percentages don't transfer to good shooters. Could he become a decent shooter. Sure, will he, that is the bet you need to be willing to take. Because his form is still garbage at 22(almost 23).

Kawhi had some of the best shooting coaches in the league for his entire career and has been a solid shooter from outside the arc his entire NBA career starting at age 20 taking 1.7 3s in 24 minutes per game. . I'm not willing to bet that Clarke comes into the league and shoots anywhere near league average from 3 at age 23 when his last year in college he was shooting 27% on .4 attempts in 28 minutes at age 22.

It seems even more foolish just expecting drastic improvement shooting from a player that hasn't shown improvement other than his form going from "cover my eyes the horror" to "he looks completely uncomfortable out there" and his percentages being terrible on low usage, just because the rare occurrence of improvement of an NBA star like Leonard(who has always shot better) and because Kevin Martin(who has always been a good shooter) just because his form wasn't orthodox(compared to Clarke's who is just bad).

You can be a fan of a player, and still be critical, without blindly expecting improvement from someone who has shown none in that regard.

The Rubio shooting thing has to be psychological. He made FTs at I think 85%. Regardless of that he was so good at D/Rebounding/ and running an offense I always saw him as a strong positive for the Wolves on the court. Can Clarke improve his deficiencies? Maybe and maybe not. If he doesn't the things he does well he does so well he's still a very good player.

[KGdaBom]

The Reality is Clarke barely shot anything outside 15 feet, not exactly "jumper" area.

Sure it is.

But if you want to be technical, are runners/floaters not important? Especially for someone with length concerns, I'd argue it's a great skill to have and isn't brought up enough.

Everything is important, but he is an awful shooter mechanically and that is what is being talked about. There really isn't anything salvageable about his shot, he needs to start over. At 23 he needs to start over...sigh.

He's got a great shot everywhere but from 3 and the FT line.

[Neeva]

Are you his father or something jesus lol
Anyway i trust Rosas will trust his staff to develop one of the boom or busts players.

Sure it is.

But if you want to be technical, are runners/floaters not important? Especially for someone with length concerns, I'd argue it's a great skill to have and isn't brought up enough.

Everything is important, but he is an awful shooter mechanically and that is what is being talked about. There really isn't anything salvageable about his shot, he needs to start over. At 23 he needs to start over...sigh.

He's got a great shot everywhere but from 3 and the FT line.

[DaKid]

Sure it is.

But if you want to be technical, are runners/floaters not important? Especially for someone with length concerns, I'd argue it's a great skill to have and isn't brought up enough.

Everything is important, but he is an awful shooter mechanically and that is what is being talked about. There really isn't anything salvageable about his shot, he needs to start over. At 23 he needs to start over...sigh.

He's got a great shot everywhere but from 3 and the FT line.

Well those 2 things are kind of important especially if we don't want players shooting long 2s

[KGdaBom]

Everything is important, but he is an awful shooter mechanically and that is what is being talked about. There really isn't anything salvageable about his shot, he needs to start over. At 23 he needs to start over...sigh.

He's got a great shot everywhere but from 3 and the FT line.

Well those 2 things are kind of important especially if we don't want players shooting long 2s

Everything is important. What he does spectacularly well more than makes up for what he doesn't. Also don't worry about long twos from Clarke. He's very good at getting his shots from closer than long two range. Would you have passed on drafting Shaq because he couldn't make FTs or shoot outside of ten feet?

[KGdaBom]

Are you his father or something jesus lol
Anyway i trust Rosas will trust his staff to develop one of the boom or busts players.

Everything is important, but he is an awful shooter mechanically and that is what is being talked about. There really isn't anything salvageable about his shot, he needs to start over. At 23 he needs to start over...sigh.

He's got a great shot everywhere but from 3 and the FT line.

I'm not his dad. I just like his game. Why would any team want a boom or bust player. I would much rather have a boom or just be really good player like Clarke.