Celtics General Offseason Thread, 2019 – Welcome to the Party, #2

[Darth Celtic]

Lol the league never takes care of the Celtics like the Lakers and Knicks. More likely they pick 8-10.

Well if you are crazy enough to think the current lotto can be faked and live in a tin foil house. Sure.

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The Lakers magically get bumped to 4th and then use that pick to get AD and Pelicans who were losing AD get number 1....

Its just a very strange very odd coincidence...

It wasn't magic. That's how lotto works. It's a random chance. Tho other teams also moved up.

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[Ring7Banner18]

A lot of people undervalue or forget about Brown and Tatum when criticizing Ainge for “not doing anything” with all his assets. You know how many teams would dream to have those two guys on their team. Those two could just as easily be Kris Dunn and Markelle Fultz. We’re still sitting pretty, and Kyrie mucking things up to the degree he has is hard to put on Danny.

There are only two recent things that I think are worth questioning: his decisions to not trade Rozier and Morris either last off-season or at the trade deadline. But without knowing the market and what offers were available, we don’t really have a basis to criticize or go anywhere with that convo.

Assuming we make only minor moves and keep most/all picks, this will be the funniest C’s team to watch in a while. Things that get me excited:

a full season of Brown and Tatum as our two main options...last time they had that opportunity they got us to game 7 of ECF. They will be confident AF. Brown is also entering his restricted free agency and will be pushing himself as he tries to earn a max deal.
Brad’s system will be restored. Welcome back ball movement and defense
Better team spirit in general, less hand pointing. Guys genuinely pulling for each other
More of the offense running through Hayward/him having a large role and also being more confident
Watching Rob Williams and 2 or so rookies develop. Tracking the Grizzlies record to see if pick conveys.
Semi Ojeyle - I am hoping Morris leaves so Semi can finally get a consistent 15-20 mins a game.
Tommy and Mike - another year with them in tow. We should cherish them while we can. Some day we will tell our grandchildren that we got to be a part of their ride

[Darth Celtic]

A lot of people undervalue or forget about Brown and Tatum when criticizing Ainge for “not doing anything” with all his assets. You know how many teams would dream to have those two guys on their team. Those two could just as easily be Kris Dunn and Markelle Fultz. We’re still sitting pretty, and Kyrie mucking things up to the degree he has is hard to put on Danny.

There are only two recent things that I think are worth questioning: his decisions to not trade Rozier and Morris either last off-season or at the trade deadline. But without knowing the market and what offers were available, we don’t really have a basis to criticize or go anywhere with that convo.

Assuming we make only minor moves and keep most/all picks, this will be the funniest C’s team to watch in a while. Things that get me excited:

a full season of Brown and Tatum as our two main options...last time they had that opportunity they got us to game 7 of ECF. They will be confident AF. Brown is also entering his restricted free agency and will be pushing himself as he tries to earn a max deal.
Brad’s system will be restored. Welcome back ball movement and defense
Better team spirit in general, less hand pointing. Guys genuinely pulling for each other
More of the offense running through Hayward/him having a large role and also being more confident
Watching Rob Williams and 2 or so rookies develop. Tracking the Grizzlies record to see if pick conveys.
Semi Ojeyle - I am hoping Morris leaves so Semi can finally get a consistent 15-20 mins a game.
Tommy and Mike - another year with them in tow. We should cherish them while we can. Some day we will tell our grandchildren that we got to be a part of their ride

Not going to lie. Tracking grizz wins next year more than our own

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[The Corey's]

For some reason, I feel Ainge is gonna come out with something out of left field that nobody saw coming in form of a trade. He's not rolling back with this team minus Kyrie and Morris and possibly Rozier. He'll let Rozier set his market, and match any reasonable deal. But guys are getting traded with picks. And I highly doubt Gordon will be one of them.

The problem is Ainge has made Rozier so untouchable since he drafted him I'm genuinely afraid of Ainge matching any offer.

I'd be ripped **** if he doesnt match.

Not that I want him but ainge cant lose both Irving and rozier and maybe even Horford for nothing. That's not his style, match and trade at some.point.

[djFan71]

Read on Twitter

Not surprising. Except I didn't know it could be pushed out so far.

Sounds like that's the answer. Both sides can see how the draft/deals go and make a more informed choice. Unless a deal comes up needing opted-in Al and they do it at that time.

[chrisab123]

For some reason, I feel Ainge is gonna come out with something out of left field that nobody saw coming in form of a trade. He's not rolling back with this team minus Kyrie and Morris and possibly Rozier. He'll let Rozier set his market, and match any reasonable deal. But guys are getting traded with picks. And I highly doubt Gordon will be one of them.

The problem is Ainge has made Rozier so untouchable since he drafted him I'm genuinely afraid of Ainge matching any offer.

I'd be ripped **** if he doesnt match.

Not that I want him but ainge cant lose both Irving and rozier and maybe even Horford for nothing. That's not his style, match and trade at some.point.

Let him walk. I don't want him back for any price.

[Darth Celtic]

The problem is Ainge has made Rozier so untouchable since he drafted him I'm genuinely afraid of Ainge matching any offer.

I'd be ripped **** if he doesnt match.

Not that I want him but ainge cant lose both Irving and rozier and maybe even Horford for nothing. That's not his style, match and trade at some.point.

Let him walk. I don't want him back for any price.

We finally agree on something.

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[djFan71]

Any cap/rules experts know.

1) how much TPE could Kyrie generate
2) does that hard cap Nets
3) how much do Nets have to clear to sign both Kyrie and KD

1. Kyrie counts as last year's salary for us outgoing, ~$20M. If you only take a pick back, we get that full amount. Any players salary coming back is subtracted.
2. Yes, any team receiving an S&T player is hard capped at the apron.
3. Basically everyone on their team if they keep DLo's cap hold (less than his max). If they renounce DLo, it's pretty easy. They only need to clear another $5Mish.

This tool is super handy: http://www.shamsports.com/capulator
It lets you play with renouncing guys, seeing cap space, etc.
The trades don't "check", though, so it lets you do illegal things.

[The Corey's]

The problem is Ainge has made Rozier so untouchable since he drafted him I'm genuinely afraid of Ainge matching any offer.

I'd be ripped **** if he doesnt match.

Not that I want him but ainge cant lose both Irving and rozier and maybe even Horford for nothing. That's not his style, match and trade at some.point.

Let him walk. I don't want him back for any price.

Be prepared for disappointment. he isnt walking for nothing.

[Ring7Banner18]

Seems like a lot of people feel this way on Rozier but I seldom see specific reasons why. Can you explain to me the basis for that because for whatever reason it’s genuinely not clear to me. The way I see it is he’s the same player who thrived in last year’s playoffs. We might not see him as an alpha because he doesn’t have the elite abilities but he’s absolutely an alpha personality. Which is to say I think Kyrie’s effect on him puts a giant asterisk on any conclusions we may draw from this past season (assuming last year’s performance is a significant source of the criticism). I’d love him back at $14/M a year or less, especially when compared to other likely options.

This may be the most unnecessary thing to expressly say on a sports message board but: tell me why I’m wrong or what I’m missing

[sully00]

The thing that has been drummed into our heads for years is the treasure trove of assets the Celtics had would be able to go in multiple successful directions. By trading Tatum essentially for AD you would accomplish. Eliminating the logjam at the wing positions with the option of a capped team resigning Morris. Meanwhile you are exponentially improving your big man situation.
There was also the ability to trade Kyrie by the trade deadline with known suitors like the Clippers. So assuming we don't sign Kyrie, are we trying to get Russell for it or in reality gstting absolutely nothing?
So to me the shell game is about the assets and their use. When we put a dollar in quarters under a shell, move. It around and its 50 cents when you pick up the shell, then things were botched. If Morris, Rozier and Irving are gone for nothing, combined with the Sacramento pick fiasco, it will have the feel of a stock that was going great and then nosedived out of control.
Again to me it is about the assets. You can't talk about how brilliant Ainge is to get a likely inconsequential draft pick, and miss this aspect of the whole last season's moves or lack thereof.

Trading Tatum for Davis would have been a horrible use of that asset it would have essentially pissed away the entire Nets trade. Dude did not want to be here there is no pissing away of assets that can change that.

Losing Irving at the cost of the pick that became Sexton is a loss.

Morris has already served his purpose he was here to provide salary cap space and be a useful depth piece he exceeded those expectations.

Rozier is a story yet to be told. He could have been traded for a lottery protected first most likely and was kept as insurance against the situation that is likely about to play out. I don't think he is likely to get an offer sheet to his liking nor one Boston won't match so this should be easy.

Boston still has 3 first round picks and Memphis '20 pick to work with the only asset lost at this point is Irving assuming he is gone.

[chrisab123]

I'd be ripped **** if he doesnt match.

Not that I want him but ainge cant lose both Irving and rozier and maybe even Horford for nothing. That's not his style, match and trade at some.point.

Let him walk. I don't want him back for any price.

Be prepared for disappointment. he isnt walking for nothing.

Oh I fully realize that Danny isn't letting his binky walk. Its just a crappy way to go about doing business. Telling someone its okay to blast your entire team, throw your coaching staff, and a few teammates under the bus. Not to mention help blow up a locker room. Its okay because Rozier will get what he wants anyways. A big money deal as "The Man" in Boston. Now...if he gets a big contract from Danny then fails as the number 1 option (which he will be since this is where his discontent came in with touches) then Danny has much more to answer for. But Rozier is nothing special and shouldn't be rewarded for his BS.

[chrisab123]

Seems like a lot of people feel this way on Rozier but I seldom see specific reasons why. Can you explain to me the basis for that because for whatever reason it’s genuinely not clear to me. The way I see it is he’s the same player who thrived in last year’s playoffs. We might not see him as an alpha because he doesn’t have the elite abilities but he’s absolutely an alpha personality. Which is to say I think Kyrie’s effect on him puts a giant asterisk on any conclusions we may draw from this past season (assuming last year’s performance is a significant source of the criticism). I’d love him back at $14/M a year or less, especially when compared to other likely options.

This may be the most unnecessary thing to expressly say on a sports message board but: tell me why I’m wrong or what I’m missing

Because Rozier had a Mike Bibby run in the playoffs 2 seasons ago he bought into the Scary Terry narrative of being an elite PG. The Alpha personality would be fantastic if the talent was there. But when reality hit him in the face like a ton of bricks that Kyrie is a better player he took it upon himself to bitch and moan and help destroy the locker room instead of being a professional.

As for Kyrie that deal is still a win. You make that trade 10 out of 10 times.

[bucknersrevenge]

Here are my priorities at this point:

1. Talk to Al and see what he's thinking. If he wants to stay, then so be it. He is the leader of this team. We need him to mentor Williams too.

If he doesn't want to stay, start looking around for possible trades to a contender. Doesn't have to be for much. Expirings and a pick is fine. Al has earned the right to play for a ring.

2. Talk to Terry and see where his head is at. Tell him he will get more playing time, but staying doesn't necessarily mean he will be a starter. Smart has also, IMO, earned that job. If Terry insists on being a starter, then start thinking of sign and trades. Again, due to BYC, we won't get much. A TPE, or even a solid backup PG would be good.

3. Pack Marcus Morris' bags. Just no room for him. Plus I don't want Rich Paul anywhere close to Ainge.

4. Tell Semi and Rob Williams that they will ne getting a ton of touches during summer league. Both guys are going to see more minutes next year. Might as well see what we have.

5. Look at trading up in the draft. This is assuming Danny sees someone he really likes.

6. Look at draft and stash options if we can't consolidate picks.

7. Name Horford or Smart the captain of the team. No more of this "letting the locker room police themselves" junk. We need a pecking order.

Get outta my head right now.

This. SO. MUCH THIS.

All of it.

[Andrew McCeltic]

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/6/16/18681045/lakers-anthony-davis-trade-finalized-july-6-max-contract-ouch-kyrie-irving-kemba-walker-nba-rumors

Holy s the schadenfreude - can embed tweets later but - LA should only have 23-24 million in cap space - the only way they get a third star is with more heavy-handed manipulation or slimy good luck

[Andrew McCeltic]

Griffin gave them Davis but scorched the earth..

[KamikazeK]

A lot of people undervalue or forget about Brown and Tatum when criticizing Ainge for “not doing anything” with all his assets. You know how many teams would dream to have those two guys on their team. Those two could just as easily be Kris Dunn and Markelle Fultz. We’re still sitting pretty, and Kyrie mucking things up to the degree he has is hard to put on Danny.

There are only two recent things that I think are worth questioning: his decisions to not trade Rozier and Morris either last off-season or at the trade deadline. But without knowing the market and what offers were available, we don’t really have a basis to criticize or go anywhere with that convo.

Assuming we make only minor moves and keep most/all picks, this will be the funniest C’s team to watch in a while. Things that get me excited:

a full season of Brown and Tatum as our two main options...last time they had that opportunity they got us to game 7 of ECF. They will be confident AF. Brown is also entering his restricted free agency and will be pushing himself as he tries to earn a max deal.
Brad’s system will be restored. Welcome back ball movement and defense
Better team spirit in general, less hand pointing. Guys genuinely pulling for each other
More of the offense running through Hayward/him having a large role and also being more confident
Watching Rob Williams and 2 or so rookies develop. Tracking the Grizzlies record to see if pick conveys.
Semi Ojeyle - I am hoping Morris leaves so Semi can finally get a consistent 15-20 mins a game.
Tommy and Mike - another year with them in tow. We should cherish them while we can. Some day we will tell our grandchildren that we got to be a part of their ride

In their careers so far Brown and Tatum have been below average players. A little luck one year in the playoffs against awful east teams doesn't change that. If they were anywhere near as good as you think they are we wouldn't have lost 4 games in a row to Milwaukee.

[Roddy]

A lot of people undervalue or forget about Brown and Tatum when criticizing Ainge for “not doing anything” with all his assets. You know how many teams would dream to have those two guys on their team. Those two could just as easily be Kris Dunn and Markelle Fultz. We’re still sitting pretty, and Kyrie mucking things up to the degree he has is hard to put on Danny.

There are only two recent things that I think are worth questioning: his decisions to not trade Rozier and Morris either last off-season or at the trade deadline. But without knowing the market and what offers were available, we don’t really have a basis to criticize or go anywhere with that convo.

Assuming we make only minor moves and keep most/all picks, this will be the funniest C’s team to watch in a while. Things that get me excited:

a full season of Brown and Tatum as our two main options...last time they had that opportunity they got us to game 7 of ECF. They will be confident AF. Brown is also entering his restricted free agency and will be pushing himself as he tries to earn a max deal.
Brad’s system will be restored. Welcome back ball movement and defense
Better team spirit in general, less hand pointing. Guys genuinely pulling for each other
More of the offense running through Hayward/him having a large role and also being more confident
Watching Rob Williams and 2 or so rookies develop. Tracking the Grizzlies record to see if pick conveys.
Semi Ojeyle - I am hoping Morris leaves so Semi can finally get a consistent 15-20 mins a game.
Tommy and Mike - another year with them in tow. We should cherish them while we can. Some day we will tell our grandchildren that we got to be a part of their ride

In their careers so far Brown and Tatum have been below average players. A little luck one year in the playoffs against awful east teams doesn't change that. If they were anywhere near as good as you think they are we wouldn't have lost 4 games in a row to Milwaukee.

Jayson Tatum, 21 years old.

15.7 pts / 6.0 rbs / 2.1 asts / 1.1 steal / 45%-37%-85%

"below average"......

[Scarletfire81]

A lot of people undervalue or forget about Brown and Tatum when criticizing Ainge for “not doing anything” with all his assets. You know how many teams would dream to have those two guys on their team. Those two could just as easily be Kris Dunn and Markelle Fultz. We’re still sitting pretty, and Kyrie mucking things up to the degree he has is hard to put on Danny.

There are only two recent things that I think are worth questioning: his decisions to not trade Rozier and Morris either last off-season or at the trade deadline. But without knowing the market and what offers were available, we don’t really have a basis to criticize or go anywhere with that convo.

Assuming we make only minor moves and keep most/all picks, this will be the funniest C’s team to watch in a while. Things that get me excited:

a full season of Brown and Tatum as our two main options...last time they had that opportunity they got us to game 7 of ECF. They will be confident AF. Brown is also entering his restricted free agency and will be pushing himself as he tries to earn a max deal.
Brad’s system will be restored. Welcome back ball movement and defense
Better team spirit in general, less hand pointing. Guys genuinely pulling for each other
More of the offense running through Hayward/him having a large role and also being more confident
Watching Rob Williams and 2 or so rookies develop. Tracking the Grizzlies record to see if pick conveys.
Semi Ojeyle - I am hoping Morris leaves so Semi can finally get a consistent 15-20 mins a game.
Tommy and Mike - another year with them in tow. We should cherish them while we can. Some day we will tell our grandchildren that we got to be a part of their ride

In their careers so far Brown and Tatum have been below average players. A little luck one year in the playoffs against awful east teams doesn't change that. If they were anywhere near as good as you think they are we wouldn't have lost 4 games in a row to Milwaukee.

They are too young to assume they won't get better. I've never seen someone say they are below average.

[PierceFan4ever]

Hope the Celtics go after Russell if he’s available. Wouldn’t mind doing the Horford for Capela deal if it’s there. A young core of 25 year old Capela, 25 year old Smart, 23 year old Russell, 22 year old brown, and 21 year old Tatum would be a good way to revamp this team in the right direction as a best case scenario while still having Hayward on board.