Offseason Thread - Now it's everyone's offseason

[HerSports85]

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[K_ick_God]

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[F N 11]

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It feels good to be in the drivers seat and not desperate like some fans.

[dakomish23]

We never went all in like in 2010. If it was equal to 2010, we would have traded swap rights to our pick next year, as well as traded away our pick for the year after that.

But we have more young talent then back then, have our picks and more coming from DAL.

How is it worse?

I’m strictly referring to what we come away with this summer and what we did to get here.

Not the position we’ll be in if we get nothing.

We liquidated the top asset we had to dump contracts.

We didn’t do anything near trading a KP level prospect in 2010 to dump contracts.

In 2010, we wanted Lebron + any of the other big FAs.

In 2017, we wanted KD + any of the other big FAs + AD or Zion.

It’s not even FA yet and we’ve already not gotten two of our targets and our prime target ruptured his Achilles one game before the season was over.

How is this situation not worse? This sucks. I don’t have to be in denial about it. Sometimes things don’t go your way and it hasn’t so far.

Like I said in the 2nd sentence, things can change b/c of FA. Kawhi signs here and we get someone else, then of course it’s better.

And like I’ve said in other posts, they’re at least set up to fully commit to an actual rebuild.

Unless you’re somebody who wanted to trade KP and didn’t want to sign anyone in FA and didn’t care about getting Zion and didn’t want to trade for AD. Were you one of those ppl?

So it’s worse because it hasn’t lived up to the absolute best case scenario - which was potentially better than 2010? Even though if it is a complete fail we’ll be in a much better position as a franchise?

We didn’t liquidate KP for cap. He wanted out. Ignore the cap part. DSJ & 2 future picks is a solid deal. What did Kyrie get back for CLE? Just Colin Sexton. We did alright.

Sometimes things don’t work out, and you move on to plan B (rebuild). In 2010 this logical plan B was not an option thanks to the horrendous Jeffries trade prior, hence imo, 2010 (and failing on plan A), was much worse.

I get what you’re saying. IMO missing out on plan A in 2017 is not better than missing out on plan A in 2010 when plan A in 2017 was taken away before FA even started.

I know that’s going to be unpopular b/c everything has to be spun to be positive and pro Knicks 24/7.

[dakomish23]

Scott Perry sez:

You'll thank me later

Perry says we’ll thank him later for us not being able to put a healthy KD + top tier FA + AD/Zion on the same team?

It’s not his fault about KD or Zion. He did what he could to put us in the position for it to come true.

Doesn’t make this scenario not coming to fruition any less crappy.

Not sure how that is a knock on Perry though. He is positioned to take advantage of good opportunities and if they aren't there or the chosen one snapped their heel doesn't mean he failed. It is not like AD wanted to be anywhere but L.A. apparently.

Still early though. We don't know what he'll do next so I'd say it is fair to say just wait and see what that is before being judgmental. It is kind of lame for any of us to act disappointed about things that weren't likely to happen anyway.

I said word for word it’s not his fault about KD.

I’m not knocking him or being judgmental about the FO.

I said the situation sucks b/c it didn’t pan out as hoped.

Am I supposed to pretend that it doesn’t suck that what we wanted didn’t happen? Why does everything have to be spun to be positive? Sometimes it doesn’t work out and that’s just life.

[K_ick_God]

Doesn’t anybody find it funny that the Pelicans’ alternative jersey said “NO_LA”?

[Clyde_Style]

Perry says we’ll thank him later for us not being able to put a healthy KD + top tier FA + AD/Zion on the same team?

It’s not his fault about KD or Zion. He did what he could to put us in the position for it to come true.

Doesn’t make this scenario not coming to fruition any less crappy.

Not sure how that is a knock on Perry though. He is positioned to take advantage of good opportunities and if they aren't there or the chosen one snapped their heel doesn't mean he failed. It is not like AD wanted to be anywhere but L.A. apparently.

Still early though. We don't know what he'll do next so I'd say it is fair to say just wait and see what that is before being judgmental. It is kind of lame for any of us to act disappointed about things that weren't likely to happen anyway.

I said word for word it’s not his fault about KD.

I’m not knocking him or being judgmental about the FO.

I said the situation sucks b/c it didn’t pan out as hoped.

Am I supposed to pretend that it doesn’t suck that what we wanted didn’t happen? Why does everything have to be spun to be positive? Sometimes it doesn’t work out and that’s just life.

It's OK to be disappointed, don't have an issue with that

Only thing I can add is I believe the franchise is perfectly poised for the future so turn that frown upside down sailor!

[K_ick_God]

I’m not saying we could have gotten AD, it’s clear Pelinka was determined to outbid all, or that we shouldn’t have gotten him, though I do think he’s somewhat overrated, but I do think the Knicks are in on the new offense and that they therefore valued him less.

And I think that played a role in jettisoning KP too.

[dakomish23]

Not to mention the extra picks

What does that to do with not getting the dream scenario the overwhelming majority was shooting for?

It’s not about “will we be ok”.

It’s about did we get what we wanted.

No, it's not.

It's about whether this is worse than 2010 or not.

It's not, because in 2010 we ended with albatrosses that this team stopped suffering from like 2 years ago. That won't happen this time.

The expectations people carried into this are irrelevant because they are subjective.

There are two different things.

The actual goal.

The plan B. We have a plan B. Never said we didn’t.

People keep using plan B to diminish the impact of plan A not coming to fruition.

All I’m doing is comparing the plan A’s.

The actual goal in 2017 had 3 players as opposed to 2010 and the actual goal has been severely impacted before FA even started.

How is that better that not attaining our goal in 2010?

[Jalen Bluntson]

I’m strictly referring to what we come away with this summer and what we did to get here.

Not the position we’ll be in if we get nothing.

We liquidated the top asset we had to dump contracts.

We didn’t do anything near trading a KP level prospect in 2010 to dump contracts.

In 2010, we wanted Lebron + any of the other big FAs.

In 2017, we wanted KD + any of the other big FAs + AD or Zion.

It’s not even FA yet and we’ve already not gotten two of our targets and our prime target ruptured his Achilles one game before the season was over.

How is this situation not worse? This sucks. I don’t have to be in denial about it. Sometimes things don’t go your way and it hasn’t so far.

Like I said in the 2nd sentence, things can change b/c of FA. Kawhi signs here and we get someone else, then of course it’s better.

And like I’ve said in other posts, they’re at least set up to fully commit to an actual rebuild.

Unless you’re somebody who wanted to trade KP and didn’t want to sign anyone in FA and didn’t care about getting Zion and didn’t want to trade for AD. Were you one of those ppl?

So it’s worse because it hasn’t lived up to the absolute best case scenario - which was potentially better than 2010? Even though if it is a complete fail we’ll be in a much better position as a franchise?

We didn’t liquidate KP for cap. He wanted out. Ignore the cap part. DSJ & 2 future picks is a solid deal. What did Kyrie get back for CLE? Just Colin Sexton. We did alright.

Sometimes things don’t work out, and you move on to plan B (rebuild). In 2010 this logical plan B was not an option thanks to the horrendous Jeffries trade prior, hence imo, 2010 (and failing on plan A), was much worse.

I get what you’re saying. IMO missing out on plan A in 2017 is not better than missing out on plan A in 2010 when plan A in 2017 was taken away before FA even started.

I know that’s going to be unpopular b/c everything has to be spun to be positive and pro Knicks 24/7.

This is absolutely NOTHING like 2010 and what we did to get there. Signing KD after tearing his Achilles and trading the farm for another max player would be similar though.

They didn't trade KP for cap space either. They had to trade him and got good value in doing so.

[knickstape4ever]

Let's not sugar coat it. In the KP trade, Smith Jr. was a throw in. The kid is on his way to be a bust and Dallas couldn't wait to get rid of him. The future picks were a nice but the real asset we got back was the cap space to sign a star THIS summer. When we fail to sign a star to kind of replace KP, the trade will be a failure. At least for now. However, I would still do the trade and take the risk.

I dont get why people are so down on DSJ. What was it about his performance that makes you say that? The DSJ that I watched was one of the few Knicks that could get to the rim and make plays for others. He's a jump shot away from being a solid PG. Defensively, he's really not as bad as people think (graded out above avg. for PG's per ESPN DRPM)

Dallas traded him in large part due to fit; DSJ and Luka didn't co-exist well because they wanted Luka to be the primary facilitator, and DSJ is not well-suited to play off-ball, he's more of a ball-dominant guard

Also his #'s Year 1 and 2 are quite similar to those of Kemba and D'Lo their 1st 2 years in the league. Fans often expect too much from these young players too soon; they get drafted at 18, 19 y/o and DSJ is still just 21; he's nowhere near a finished product. Too soon to give up on him

[dakomish23]

Not sure how that is a knock on Perry though. He is positioned to take advantage of good opportunities and if they aren't there or the chosen one snapped their heel doesn't mean he failed. It is not like AD wanted to be anywhere but L.A. apparently.

Still early though. We don't know what he'll do next so I'd say it is fair to say just wait and see what that is before being judgmental. It is kind of lame for any of us to act disappointed about things that weren't likely to happen anyway.

I said word for word it’s not his fault about KD.

I’m not knocking him or being judgmental about the FO.

I said the situation sucks b/c it didn’t pan out as hoped.

Am I supposed to pretend that it doesn’t suck that what we wanted didn’t happen? Why does everything have to be spun to be positive? Sometimes it doesn’t work out and that’s just life.

It's OK to be disappointed, don't have an issue with that

Only thing I can add is I believe the franchise is perfectly poised for the future so turn that frown upside down sailor!

I agree with you a 100%. I said it multiple times - they made the best out of the crappy situation they put themselves in.

I’m happy if they actually commit to the rebuild. Seems like most are fine with it too at this point.

[GONYK]

What does that to do with not getting the dream scenario the overwhelming majority was shooting for?

It’s not about “will we be ok”.

It’s about did we get what we wanted.

No, it's not.

It's about whether this is worse than 2010 or not.

It's not, because in 2010 we ended with albatrosses that this team stopped suffering from like 2 years ago. That won't happen this time.

The expectations people carried into this are irrelevant because they are subjective.

There are two different things.

The actual goal.

The plan B. We have a plan B. Never said we didn’t.

People keep using plan B to diminish the impact of plan A not coming to fruition.

All I’m doing is comparing the plan A’s.

The actual goal in 2017 had 3 players as opposed to 2010 and the actual goal has been severely impacted before FA even started.

How is that better that not attaining our goal in 2010?

Ah, I understand what you're saying now.

[dakomish23]

So it’s worse because it hasn’t lived up to the absolute best case scenario - which was potentially better than 2010? Even though if it is a complete fail we’ll be in a much better position as a franchise?

We didn’t liquidate KP for cap. He wanted out. Ignore the cap part. DSJ & 2 future picks is a solid deal. What did Kyrie get back for CLE? Just Colin Sexton. We did alright.

Sometimes things don’t work out, and you move on to plan B (rebuild). In 2010 this logical plan B was not an option thanks to the horrendous Jeffries trade prior, hence imo, 2010 (and failing on plan A), was much worse.

I get what you’re saying. IMO missing out on plan A in 2017 is not better than missing out on plan A in 2010 when plan A in 2017 was taken away before FA even started.

I know that’s going to be unpopular b/c everything has to be spun to be positive and pro Knicks 24/7.

This is absolutely NOTHING like 2010 and what we did to get there. Signing KD after tearing his Achilles and trading the farm for another max player would be similar though.

They didn't trade KP for cap space either. They had to trade him and got good value in doing so.

I never said they traded KP for cap space. I was comparing how they got in position to have the cap space.

Doing that trade, not getting Zion, KD rupturing his Achilles and losing out on AD before FA even starts, when all 3 were big components of the plan A, sucks. And I think it sucks more than losing out on Lebron + big name in 2010 FA.

[Guano]

looking forward to the day when threads are no longer derailed by kp abandonment issues.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Julius Randle anyone?

[Clyde_Style]

I said word for word it’s not his fault about KD.

I’m not knocking him or being judgmental about the FO.

I said the situation sucks b/c it didn’t pan out as hoped.

Am I supposed to pretend that it doesn’t suck that what we wanted didn’t happen? Why does everything have to be spun to be positive? Sometimes it doesn’t work out and that’s just life.

It's OK to be disappointed, don't have an issue with that

Only thing I can add is I believe the franchise is perfectly poised for the future so turn that frown upside down sailor!

I agree with you a 100%. I said it multiple times - they made the best out of the crappy situation they put themselves in.

I’m happy if they actually commit to the rebuild. Seems like most are fine with it too at this point.

[K_ick_God]

Do we even know the Plan A included AD? Do we know KD is going back to GSW or that Kyrie isn’t coming? Ppl throwing in the towel lol.

BFS.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I get what you’re saying. IMO missing out on plan A in 2017 is not better than missing out on plan A in 2010 when plan A in 2017 was taken away before FA even started.

I know that’s going to be unpopular b/c everything has to be spun to be positive and pro Knicks 24/7.

This is absolutely NOTHING like 2010 and what we did to get there. Signing KD after tearing his Achilles and trading the farm for another max player would be similar though.

They didn't trade KP for cap space either. They had to trade him and got good value in doing so.

I never said they traded KP for cap space. I was comparing how they got in position to have the cap space.

Doing that trade, not getting Zion, KD rupturing his Achilles and losing out on AD before FA even starts, when all 3 were big components of the plan A, sucks. And I think it sucks more than losing out on Lebron + big name in 2010 FA.

Well...we don't know what the actual plan was. Obviously AD was not a part of any plans. IMO the plan was...clear the cap...develop youth...build from the ground up. KP threw a wrench in the plans but...Perry handled it well.

I don't see the comparison to 2010 because...they went all in and dumped assets to clear space...and failed. This year...they were able to sign 2 max players...and shyt happens. They didn't fail. The team is in much better shape going forward. I'm not really upset about any of it.

Signing KD and trading the farm would upset me tremendously though.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Do we even know the Plan A included AD? Do we know KD is going back to GSW or that Kyrie isn’t coming? Ppl throwing in the towel lol.

BFS.

Kawhi is coming!!!