2019 free agency and trade ideas: part 2 Downloading

[Ghost of Kleine]

Wait, Kleine. Are you proposing the Suns add 3 rookies to this roster?

No, only two at one position, the 4. Hunter and Clarke. Due to their diverse defensive skillsets. And of course any player acquired in the 2nd round can go to the g league to develop, and would only be called up.in case of injury depth.

But I'm very intrigued by the thought of a defensive trio of Bridges/ Hunter and Clarke. That'd be two ELITE defensive wings on each side of Booker, both can also shoot well. And an Elite weak side defender/ shotblocker in Clarke alongside of Ayton defensively.

Then letting Booker, Ayton, and Oubre handle the offense. Maybe even adding Russell with the acquired cap space from the move if possible.

But under any circumstances, we'd get a veteran lead guard, and add veteran depth for our youngsters in free agency.

So my knee jerk reaction was to have ptsd of double drafting bender and chriss, but the more i think about it the more I realize a big reason why it failed was because they couldn't really play with each other.
Hunter and Clarke, on the other hand, can conceivably be on the floor at the same time, and actually provide different tools that will help the team. And these rookies are much different from the raw play dough we had before. These guys can actually order drinks. They've proved themselves in college.. and I'm sure they can play some minutes next season together off the bench..
I think you might be on to something, here.
Then again, TJ Warren is suuuper good and on an upward climb so idk if I truly value Clarke above him. But we do have enough wings to spare even without him so... its a toss up for me.

This is my point, They both have mature games, They both have unique skillsets that would play well off of each other. And are highly interchangeable. Hunter has a championship pedigree, and a high IQ. Clarke is a high IQ player with a very tough work ethic, and obviously a great weakside defender, and shotblocker. Which is also what we need badly next to Ayton.

Having both Bridges and Hunter on alternating corners of the perimeter could completely stifle the opposing teams perimeter game. and with Clarke next to Ayton , any player trying to score in the paint or at the rim is going to have a nightmare trying to score at all.

Then on top of that, both Bridges and Hunter are capable 3 point shooters( Bridges at 33% and Hunter at 43%) . And both Ayton and Clarke are ridiculously athletic and efficient scorers in/around the paint. Bridges, Hunter and Clarke would lock down the opposing players all over the court.

And Booker and Ayton would just decimate the opposition with their inside out game. Oubre would be causing havok cutting to the rim as well.

Then you add a quality veteran point guard in free agency, and were a super potent defensive team, But also with great offense. How many teams can boast three potential ELITE defenders, and two all star caliber offensive players all on one team?

We'd have to at the very least be competing for the playoffs next season.

[jredsaz]

guys, would phoenix be interested in expiring contract as part of the deal for tj warren

i really think blazers could go after him (if he really is on the block)

TJ would be a good fit for the Blazers, but you guys don't have too many assets we could use.

I would do something for Zach Collins

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[Phnxsports]

Everyone needs to stop D LO talk. Odds are 90% Nets retain. Peeps need to stop with Warren/Jackson trade talk. Both have little value ATM. Jackson with inconsistent performance combined with questionable behavior off court recently and Warren with the Frank's and Beans helmet from falling on his head to much issue. Draft White at 6 as best 6th man/rotational option, retain Oubre and then cross fingers and hope for best before deadline.

[SunsLyf3]

I'd prefer DLo if he wasn't friends with Book - if we sign him and backcourt 2019 doesn't work out, it's going to be even harder to trade him than it was Ulis. Acquiring friends/ brothers always seems like an easy way to make goodwill at the time... But when has it ever ended well for us?

It's different when you sign friends or brothers who are mediocre as opposed to signing an all star buddy.

[bwgood77]

Wouldn't be surprised if the "NOLA wanting Beal" discussion is just a way to leverage Lavine from Chicago, who they were previously rumoured to have interest in. Still like Jrue to Chicago for Lavine, and the 4 for Sabonis. That's a sexy young team.

Sabonis is an interesting name that could get moved this summer. He's good but Indi doesn't play him and Turner together and sabonis needs to get paid soon. Could see them shop him for a guard.

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And at 4, Indy could land a high end starter at either PG (Garland, White) or SF (Hunter) to complement established paid starters Oladipo and Turner. They also retain TJ Leaf at PF, and have depth at PG (A Holiday) and SF (McBuckets) and cap to retain a combination of Collison and/ or Bogdanovic.

I like Sabonis but he doesn't seem like an ideal fit next to Zion at all really. Sabonis is a super efficient guy...but doesn't really shoot 3s, though when he did, he hit them (9-17 for the year)...it's weird he shot over 150 as a rookie and then 37 and then 17 but his % went up every year. I guess if he could become a stretch 5 like Brook Lopez he would be a nice fit with Zion. Zion actually ended up shooting fairly well from 3 down the stretch too but given his ridiculously high efficiency inside you probably don't want him doing much of that, or pairing him with someone who doesn't open up space.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sabondo01.html

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Wiggins on the trade block lol

lol Wiggins good luck

I'm going to bring this up every time Wiggins get brought up just to show how overpaid Wiggins is and at the same time how reasonable TJ's contract is

Andrew Wiggins
PPG (per36): 18.1ppg (18.7 per36)
RPG (per36): 4.8rpg (5.0 per36)
APG (per36): 2.5apg (2.6 per36)
MPG: 34.8mpg
FG%: .412
3PT%: .339
TS%: .493
Contract: $148m over 5yrs
Avg salary: $29.6m

TJ Warren
PPG (per36): 18.0ppg (20.4 per36)
RPG (per36): 4.0rpg (4.6 per36)
APG (per36): 1.5apg (1.7 per36)
MPG: 31.6mpg
FG%: .486
3PT%: .428
TS%: .580
Contract: $50m over 4yrs
Avg salary: $12.5m

[Ghost of Kleine]

Not to be a " Debbie Downer". But with respect to Warren's percieved value currently.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1854828.

It's a hard situation in that yes he's a good player on a value contract for us. But the rub is he's currently our only available asset that has some small measure of value too. Meaning it's going to be really tough for us to improve our roster. Technically we should hold onto him, but again, our current roster is only good for around 19-20 wins???

What's our solution?

[Qwigglez]

Honestly, it's not just a cash dump, as the returning value is additionally in us getting the 9th pick. The reality, whether people accept it or not is that the front office plans to move Warren and Jackson obviously.As for his value, If you guys just enquire around, You'll find that warren's value amongst those outside this fanbase is not that great. Don't believe me, just ask?

We don't have nearly enough value in our current assets to trade for Beal without giving up Bridges/ Warren/ and a ton of picks. Which is why I included Warren for the 9th pick and the additional cap space that the trade offers.

Ball isn't an option. If the Pels trade for Beal, it's going to have Ball going to Washington. Otherwise Griffin will play him alongside of Holiday. Who also isn't getting moved, as Griffin has himself mentioned consistently.

I've asked for anyone to offer better trade options without involving Warren to improve our roster, I'm fine with being wrong, just show me how? But have yet to hear anyone's answer. Also if there's a way to improve our roster whilst still keeping Warren, show me please? I understand that he's highly valued here. Again, warren is currently our only available trade chip with value, Hence his constant trade inclusions.

As I propose often, If we were just willing to add additional talent ( assets) through the draft, Then perhaps we could afford to withhold Warren from being included in trades. But as it currently stands, we don't have such additional assets to offer in his stead. That's just the reality of the situation.

I'm just being a realist, I said a while back that he'd likely be moved, due to Oubres' emergence, Bridges being a core player as well as the need for balancing the team. All the reports that are coming out pretty much substantiate the front offices interest in this.

However unpleasant this reality may be for some to digest, it's going to happen. So at some point it makes sense to accept it.

Warren has more value to us than just being a cash dump. Warren's value to the Suns is worth more than getting the 9th pick. If your proposal was for us to trade Warren to clear cap space and then sign someone like DLo (& additionally get us the 9th pick), then that is something I can get behind. The reality of it is this... the Suns are NOT going to trade Warren before/during the draft or before the start of free agency. It's too early in the process, and it's counting our chickens before they hatch. It's similar to the situation where the Suns traded Marcus Morris to clear enough cap space for us to sign LaMarcus Aldridge. It was too early in the process before Aldridge even agreed to a deal with us, and it blew up in our face. It doesn't make us better in the short term or long term unless that 9th pick turns into a hidden gem, but I don't count on that happening.

It sounds like you just want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. We would go from being a 19 win team to being a 15 win team.

[lilfishi22]

I'd prefer DLo if he wasn't friends with Book - if we sign him and backcourt 2019 doesn't work out, it's going to be even harder to trade him than it was Ulis. Acquiring friends/ brothers always seems like an easy way to make goodwill at the time... But when has it ever ended well for us?

The NBA is a business. When you make it personal by bringing in people with off-court ties the pendulum can really swing both ways and that's when people get hurt. I agree, I would much prefer it if DLo wasn't friends with Book already.

[Qwigglez]

I understand what you're saying man, But if you're referring to the list of trade ideas that would allow us to add cap space, the premise was obviously in that the front office would have interest in moving one of Warren and/or Jackson for cap space. And yes, until any deal happens, it's merely nothing more than speculation.

Also, whilst I agree that it's true that the draft happens prior to free agency, That doesn't mean that teams couldn't or wouldn't agree to, or finalize trades for picks with the understanding, planning for that acquired space and assets/ players even, To be traded or used towards the further aquisition of that teams targeted player.

And with respect to the argument that it's too risky for teams to formulate such plans prior to free agency without an agreement in place.

It happens every year. And the best franchises understand that you have to be willing to take risks in order to reap the rewards. And it's the front offices' job to plan accordingly. And communicate, occasionally gamble and have an alternative plan in case your primary option falls through. If we don't have a competitive amount of cap space, and we also aren't willing to add talent to our asset pool through the draft, How are we supposed to realistically take that next jump?

Again, if we don't have that free agent appeal yet, and also don't have the cap space to outbid other teams for better players that we need in order to make a discernible impact, what avenues of improvement are available to us to become more competitive?

I guess maybe we could sweet talk high impact quality free agents into taking less money in order to sign with us. That should work well.

Please go over the deals that occur every year that has teams trading for cap space prior to free agency, getting rid of quality players and in turn they end up getting a top tier free agent.

You don't make those kind of gambles, those are the kind of gambles that could easily break your team. Which is what happened to us with McD at the helm.

[jredsaz]

I'd prefer DLo if he wasn't friends with Book - if we sign him and backcourt 2019 doesn't work out, it's going to be even harder to trade him than it was Ulis. Acquiring friends/ brothers always seems like an easy way to make goodwill at the time... But when has it ever ended well for us?

The NBA is a business. When you make it personal by bringing in people with off-court ties the pendulum can really swing both ways and that's when people get hurt. I agree, I would much prefer it if DLo wasn't friends with Book already.

Then the Suns would have zero chance of signing him.

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[lilfishi22]

Honestly, it's not just a cash dump, as the returning value is additionally in us getting the 9th pick. The reality, whether people accept it or not is that the front office plans to move Warren and Jackson obviously.As for his value, If you guys just enquire around, You'll find that warren's value amongst those outside this fanbase is not that great. Don't believe me, just ask?

We don't have nearly enough value in our current assets to trade for Beal without giving up Bridges/ Warren/ and a ton of picks. Which is why I included Warren for the 9th pick and the additional cap space that the trade offers.

Ball isn't an option. If the Pels trade for Beal, it's going to have Ball going to Washington. Otherwise Griffin will play him alongside of Holiday. Who also isn't getting moved, as Griffin has himself mentioned consistently.

I've asked for anyone to offer better trade options without involving Warren to improve our roster, I'm fine with being wrong, just show me how? But have yet to hear anyone's answer. Also if there's a way to improve our roster whilst still keeping Warren, show me please? I understand that he's highly valued here. Again, warren is currently our only available trade chip with value, Hence his constant trade inclusions.

As I propose often, If we were just willing to add additional talent ( assets) through the draft, Then perhaps we could afford to withhold Warren from being included in trades. But as it currently stands, we don't have such additional assets to offer in his stead. That's just the reality of the situation.

I'm just being a realist, I said a while back that he'd likely be moved, due to Oubres' emergence, Bridges being a core player as well as the need for balancing the team. All the reports that are coming out pretty much substantiate the front offices interest in this.

However unpleasant this reality may be for some to digest, it's going to happen. So at some point it makes sense to accept it.

Warren has more value to us than just being a cash dump. Warren's value to the Suns is worth more than getting the 9th pick. If your proposal was for us to trade Warren to clear cap space and then sign someone like DLo (& additionally get us the 9th pick), then that is something I can get behind. The reality of it is this... the Suns are NOT going to trade Warren before/during the draft or before the start of free agency. It's too early in the process, and it's counting our chickens before they hatch. It's similar to the situation where the Suns traded Marcus Morris to clear enough cap space for us to sign LaMarcus Aldridge. It was too early in the process before Aldridge even agreed to a deal with us, and it blew up in our face. It doesn't make us better in the short term or long term unless that 9th pick turns into a hidden gem, but I don't count on that happening.

It sounds like you just want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. We would go from being a 19 win team to being a 15 win team.

You forgot the 2nd crucial part of that plan. We signed 33 year old Tyson Chandler to 4yrs $52m to convince LMA that he won't need to play C for us. I won't even get into the whole Earl Watson hiring

[Qwigglez]

Not to be a " Debbie Downer". But with respect to Warren's percieved value currently.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1854828

It's a hard situation in that yes he's a good player on a value contract for us. But the rub is he's currently our only available asset that has some small measure of value too. Meaning it's going to be really tough for us to improve our roster. Technically we should hold onto him, but again, our current roster is only good for around 19-20 wins???

What's our solution?

What other posters think doesn't mean squat. Look at the numbers of TJ Warren, and then look at the numbers of Brandon Ingram and tell me who would you rather have on your team. I'd guess people would choose Warrens stats 8 times out of 10, yet Ingram has the higher perceived value.

If Warren barely has any value than you simply keep him. I'm not trading him for 10 cents on the dollar.

If we want to improve through free agency with having limited cap space we can actually come into free agency above the cap by not renouncing Bender, not declining Fredette's team option next year, and virtually keep everyone's bird rights (Troy Daniels, Jamal Crawford). We actually have $28M in cap holds, which would put us over the cap. We could then use the MLE, the bi-annual exception, and a lot of other things.

[lilfishi22]

I'd prefer DLo if he wasn't friends with Book - if we sign him and backcourt 2019 doesn't work out, it's going to be even harder to trade him than it was Ulis. Acquiring friends/ brothers always seems like an easy way to make goodwill at the time... But when has it ever ended well for us?

The NBA is a business. When you make it personal by bringing in people with off-court ties the pendulum can really swing both ways and that's when people get hurt. I agree, I would much prefer it if DLo wasn't friends with Book already.

Then the Suns would have zero chance of signing him.

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Didn't say avoid at all cost. Just saying I would prefer it more if they weren't already friends. But he is so it is what it is

[Revived]

I'd prefer DLo if he wasn't friends with Book - if we sign him and backcourt 2019 doesn't work out, it's going to be even harder to trade him than it was Ulis. Acquiring friends/ brothers always seems like an easy way to make goodwill at the time... But when has it ever ended well for us?

The NBA is a business. When you make it personal by bringing in people with off-court ties the pendulum can really swing both ways and that's when people get hurt. I agree, I would much prefer it if DLo wasn't friends with Book already.

I’m with you guys. It’s the main reason why I prefer to not go after brothers or close friends.

At some point, if Russel or Booker gets traded then it’s going to be such a messy situation that the other one will have to be traded pretty soon as well.

That said, Suns need talent in the worst way and beggars can’t be choosers so I’d welcome Russel with open hands because it may be our best option.

[bwgood77]

Not to be a " Debbie Downer". But with respect to Warren's percieved value currently.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1854828

It's a hard situation in that yes he's a good player on a value contract for us. But the rub is he's currently our only available asset that has some small measure of value too. Meaning it's going to be really tough for us to improve our roster. Technically we should hold onto him, but again, our current roster is only good for around 19-20 wins???

What's our solution?

I know TJ's value isn't very high among fans of other teams (or from a lot of BSoTS readers, or twitter guys)...I'm not saying it's high, but I don't think it's as low as some people make it out to be. Most of those fans of other teams here don't realize how much he improved his 3 ball and also they don't watch what kind of touch he has around the basket.

It actually seems like those who really watch Suns games...as bad as they have been, value TJ far more than those who don't...meaning he probably has a lot more value to the Suns and perhaps teams who have really scouted TJ than to people who spend more time on trying to make our team good on paper without having watched much.

I see many that are around during game thread time (Saberestar, grumpysaddle, etc) see that TJ seems to be extremely undervalued.

The way our team improves, and most teams is from internal improvement from your core players...those you have drafted...and while you could use that statement for your argument to "draft more" we have drafted a lot...we need some players we know can play too, so trading a useful player for another pick doesn't make a ton of sense.

We are going to improve by Booker, Ayton, Bridges getting a lot better, working hard and staying healthy. If they don't, it doesn't really matter what peripheral players we add around them.

We are extremely unlikely to improve vastly in the win column this year...now that won't mean we don't improve immensely by being far more competitive in a lot of games (hopefully).

You keep asking for others to provide solutions but I don't have enough intel on free agents and who is interested in what and what their value is. It will play out.

TJ will likely end up somewhere on a team with smart management.

[Crives]

Not to be a " Debbie Downer". But with respect to Warren's percieved value currently.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1854828

It's a hard situation in that yes he's a good player on a value contract for us. But the rub is he's currently our only available asset that has some small measure of value too. Meaning it's going to be really tough for us to improve our roster. Technically we should hold onto him, but again, our current roster is only good for around 19-20 wins???

What's our solution?

I know TJ's value isn't very high among fans of other teams (or from a lot of BSoTS readers, or twitter guys)...I'm not saying it's high, but I don't think it's as low as some people make it out to be. Most of those fans of other teams here don't realize how much he improved his 3 ball and also they don't watch what kind of touch he has around the basket.

It actually seems like those who really watch Suns games...as bad as they have been, value TJ far more than those who don't...meaning he probably has a lot more value to the Suns and perhaps teams who have really scouted TJ than to people who spend more time on trying to make our team good on paper without having watched much.

I see many that are around during game thread time (Saberestar, grumpysaddle, etc) see that TJ seems to be extremely undervalued.

The way our team improves, and most teams is from internal improvement from your core players...those you have drafted...and while you could use that statement for your argument to "draft more" we have drafted a lot...we need some players we know can play too, so trading a useful player for another pick doesn't make a ton of sense.

We are going to improve by Booker, Ayton, Bridges getting a lot better, working hard and staying healthy. If they don't, it doesn't really matter what peripheral players we add around them.

We are extremely unlikely to improve vastly in the win column this year...now that won't mean we don't improve immensely by being far more competitive in a lot of games (hopefully).

You keep asking for others to provide solutions but I don't have enough intel on free agents and who is interested in what and what their value is. It will play out.

TJ will likely end up somewhere on a team with smart management.

Most non suns fans on this board have probably not watched warren play more then 4 or 5 times. We haven’t exactly been a league pass team these last few years.

I thought warren was our 2nd best player before his injury.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Honestly, it's not just a cash dump, as the returning value is additionally in us getting the 9th pick. The reality, whether people accept it or not is that the front office plans to move Warren and Jackson obviously.As for his value, If you guys just enquire around, You'll find that warren's value amongst those outside this fanbase is not that great. Don't believe me, just ask?

We don't have nearly enough value in our current assets to trade for Beal without giving up Bridges/ Warren/ and a ton of picks. Which is why I included Warren for the 9th pick and the additional cap space that the trade offers.

Ball isn't an option. If the Pels trade for Beal, it's going to have Ball going to Washington. Otherwise Griffin will play him alongside of Holiday. Who also isn't getting moved, as Griffin has himself mentioned consistently.

I've asked for anyone to offer better trade options without involving Warren to improve our roster, I'm fine with being wrong, just show me how? But have yet to hear anyone's answer. Also if there's a way to improve our roster whilst still keeping Warren, show me please? I understand that he's highly valued here. Again, warren is currently our only available trade chip with value, Hence his constant trade inclusions.

As I propose often, If we were just willing to add additional talent ( assets) through the draft, Then perhaps we could afford to withhold Warren from being included in trades. But as it currently stands, we don't have such additional assets to offer in his stead. That's just the reality of the situation.

I'm just being a realist, I said a while back that he'd likely be moved, due to Oubres' emergence, Bridges being a core player as well as the need for balancing the team. All the reports that are coming out pretty much substantiate the front offices interest in this.

However unpleasant this reality may be for some to digest, it's going to happen. So at some point it makes sense to accept it.

Warren has more value to us than just being a cash dump. Warren's value to the Suns is worth more than getting the 9th pick. If your proposal was for us to trade Warren to clear cap space and then sign someone like DLo (& additionally get us the 9th pick), then that is something I can get behind. The reality of it is this... the Suns are NOT going to trade Warren before/during the draft or before the start of free agency. It's too early in the process, and it's counting our chickens before they hatch. It's similar to the situation where the Suns traded Marcus Morris to clear enough cap space for us to sign LaMarcus Aldridge. It was too early in the process before Aldridge even agreed to a deal with us, and it blew up in our face. It doesn't make us better in the short term or long term unless that 9th pick turns into a hidden gem, but I don't count on that happening.

It sounds like you just want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. We would go from being a 19 win team to being a 15 win team.

Again, The premise is in exactly that.....You're trying to accumulate cap space for the very reason that you mentioned. Take russell for instance, You can't make a competitive offer to Russell or even an offer to Brogdon either if you don't currently have the cap to do it. And the same premise applies to assuming that you'll be able to find a guaranteed way to rapidly create the necessary space in order to sign your player.

And for anybody who argues that you wait until you confirm their commitment first is deluding themselves. You can't realistically expect a player to just sit there and wait for you to figure out a way to create cap to sign him, whilst other teams are lined up to offer him just as much, if not more than us.

Our best chance is to bead into free agency with cash in hand, and be ready to sign that player first. Again, Our best chance is in beating the other teams to the punch first. Lest we wind up settling for leftover scraps once again.


Now with respect to my premise, You put Russell on our team with a core of Booker/ Ayton/ Oubre on offense and Bridges Hunter and Clarke on defense ( Hunter and Clarke being interchangeable at the 4), and tell me that you don't have something pretty solid there.


- Russell/ McConnell?
- Booker/ Bridges.
- Oubre/ Hunter.
- Clarke/ Hunter. ( Vonleh?) Free agent?
- Ayton/ Holmes? Or Dedmon perhaps?

That backcourt has incredible offensive potential. Also we'd have 3 ELITE positional defensive players ( 2 at all times on the court with Ayton). As both Clarke and Hunter are interchangeable. We'd have lockdown defense at both the 3 and 4.

You could also run so many different defensive combinations as well- Such as Booker or Russell at the point, Bridges at the 2, Hunter at the 3 and Clarke at the 4.

Or maybe- Booker at the point, bridges at the 2, oubre at the 3, and Hunter at the 4. The variations are countless honestly.

Offense: Russell/ Booker/ Oubre/ Ayton.

Defense: Bridges ( elite perimeter defender) / Hunter ( elite perimeter defender) / Clarke ( elite frontcourt/weakside defender).

Is that team not immensely competitive and likely a playoff contender?

[bwgood77]

Not to be a " Debbie Downer". But with respect to Warren's percieved value currently.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1854828

It's a hard situation in that yes he's a good player on a value contract for us. But the rub is he's currently our only available asset that has some small measure of value too. Meaning it's going to be really tough for us to improve our roster. Technically we should hold onto him, but again, our current roster is only good for around 19-20 wins???

What's our solution?

I know TJ's value isn't very high among fans of other teams (or from a lot of BSoTS readers, or twitter guys)...I'm not saying it's high, but I don't think it's as low as some people make it out to be. Most of those fans of other teams here don't realize how much he improved his 3 ball and also they don't watch what kind of touch he has around the basket.

It actually seems like those who really watch Suns games...as bad as they have been, value TJ far more than those who don't...meaning he probably has a lot more value to the Suns and perhaps teams who have really scouted TJ than to people who spend more time on trying to make our team good on paper without having watched much.

I see many that are around during game thread time (Saberestar, grumpysaddle, etc) see that TJ seems to be extremely undervalued.

The way our team improves, and most teams is from internal improvement from your core players...those you have drafted...and while you could use that statement for your argument to "draft more" we have drafted a lot...we need some players we know can play too, so trading a useful player for another pick doesn't make a ton of sense.

We are going to improve by Booker, Ayton, Bridges getting a lot better, working hard and staying healthy. If they don't, it doesn't really matter what peripheral players we add around them.

We are extremely unlikely to improve vastly in the win column this year...now that won't mean we don't improve immensely by being far more competitive in a lot of games (hopefully).

You keep asking for others to provide solutions but I don't have enough intel on free agents and who is interested in what and what their value is. It will play out.

TJ will likely end up somewhere on a team with smart management.

Most non suns fans on this board have probably not watched warren play more then 4 or 5 times. We haven’t exactly been a league pass team these last few years.

I thought warren was our 2nd best player before his injury.

For the longest time we only had won 1 game when TJ was out. Then for quite a long time we had only won 2 games when TJ or Tyler Johnson was out.

I think we ended up only winning a handful of games if neither of those guys played...one that the Pelicans gifted us. We had a little nice streak near the end of the season against some good teams after they had clinched playoff spots to win a few more.

[bwgood77]

Honestly, it's not just a cash dump, as the returning value is additionally in us getting the 9th pick. The reality, whether people accept it or not is that the front office plans to move Warren and Jackson obviously.As for his value, If you guys just enquire around, You'll find that warren's value amongst those outside this fanbase is not that great. Don't believe me, just ask?

We don't have nearly enough value in our current assets to trade for Beal without giving up Bridges/ Warren/ and a ton of picks. Which is why I included Warren for the 9th pick and the additional cap space that the trade offers.

Ball isn't an option. If the Pels trade for Beal, it's going to have Ball going to Washington. Otherwise Griffin will play him alongside of Holiday. Who also isn't getting moved, as Griffin has himself mentioned consistently.

I've asked for anyone to offer better trade options without involving Warren to improve our roster, I'm fine with being wrong, just show me how? But have yet to hear anyone's answer. Also if there's a way to improve our roster whilst still keeping Warren, show me please? I understand that he's highly valued here. Again, warren is currently our only available trade chip with value, Hence his constant trade inclusions.

As I propose often, If we were just willing to add additional talent ( assets) through the draft, Then perhaps we could afford to withhold Warren from being included in trades. But as it currently stands, we don't have such additional assets to offer in his stead. That's just the reality of the situation.

I'm just being a realist, I said a while back that he'd likely be moved, due to Oubres' emergence, Bridges being a core player as well as the need for balancing the team. All the reports that are coming out pretty much substantiate the front offices interest in this.

However unpleasant this reality may be for some to digest, it's going to happen. So at some point it makes sense to accept it.

Warren has more value to us than just being a cash dump. Warren's value to the Suns is worth more than getting the 9th pick. If your proposal was for us to trade Warren to clear cap space and then sign someone like DLo (& additionally get us the 9th pick), then that is something I can get behind. The reality of it is this... the Suns are NOT going to trade Warren before/during the draft or before the start of free agency. It's too early in the process, and it's counting our chickens before they hatch. It's similar to the situation where the Suns traded Marcus Morris to clear enough cap space for us to sign LaMarcus Aldridge. It was too early in the process before Aldridge even agreed to a deal with us, and it blew up in our face. It doesn't make us better in the short term or long term unless that 9th pick turns into a hidden gem, but I don't count on that happening.

It sounds like you just want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. We would go from being a 19 win team to being a 15 win team.

Again, The premise is in exactly that.....You're trying to accumulate cap space for the very reason that you mentioned. Take russell for instance, You can't make a competitive offer to Russell or even an offer to Brogdon either if you don't currently have the cap to do it. And the same premise applies to assuming that you'll be able to find a guaranteed way to rapidly create the necessary space in order to sign your player.

And for anybody who argues that you wait until you confirm their commitment first is deluding themselves. You can't realistically expect a player to just sit there and wait for you to figure out a way to create cap to sign him, whilst other teams are lined up to offer him just as much, if not more than us.

Our best chance is to bead into free agency with cash in hand, and be ready to sign that player first. Again, Our best chance is in beating the other teams to the punch first. Lest we wind up settling for leftover scraps once again.


Now with respect to my premise, You put Russell on our team with a core of Booker/ Ayton/ Oubre on offense and Bridges Hunter and Clarke on defense ( Hunter and Clarke being interchangeable at the 4), and tell me that you don't have something pretty solid there.


- Russell/ McConnell?
- Booker/ Bridges.
- Oubre/ Hunter.
- Clarke/ Hunter. ( Vonleh?) Free agent?
- Ayton/ Holmes? Or Dedmon perhaps?

That backcourt has incredible offensive potential. Also we'd have 3 ELITE positional defensive players ( 2 at all times on the court with Ayton). As both Clarke and Hunter are interchangeable. We'd have lockdown defense at both the 3 and 4.

You could also run so many different defensive combinations as well- Such as Booker or Russell at the point, Bridges at the 2, Hunter at the 3 and Clarke at the 4.

Or maybe- Booker at the point, bridges at the 2, oubre at the 3, and Hunter at the 4. The variations are countless honestly.

Offense: Russell/ Booker/ Oubre/ Ayton.

Defense: Bridges ( elite perimeter defender) / Hunter ( elite perimeter defender) / Clarke ( elite frontcourt/weakside defender).

Is that team not immensely competitive and likely a playoff contender?

You can easily dump players once you have a player's commitment...and in FA you have like a week moratorium to figure it out if you haven't already...you don't just dump players to create cap space you're not sure you can use for an upgrade...well, smart teams don't unless they are at the beginning of the rebuild and want to create cap space to absorb people and add assets (something else McD pretty much failed to do...he just signed old washed up guys to big contracts for the hell of it instead of getting picks to take those types of guys on).

No, that team doesn't compete for a playoff spot...it likely finishes 13th-14th in the west. Though I have a hard time seeing many iterations of us climbing much higher given the toughness of the west.

I do like that team, but it would be at least a year away from knocking on the playoff door....in the west probably at least two.