Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

[Ruzious]

what does this mean for Kawhi though. if he was going to the Clippera for his own shine. there is no way he out shines those 2 in a Lakers uniform. he'll be anafterthought unless hes able to take somepne with him.

I just can't see Leonard wanting to play with Lebron - I don't think the trade changed anything in that regard. Let's see how the rest of the Lakers roster evolves. They still have a lot of work to do.

[Ruzious]

Read on Twitter

Danny Ainge is not the GM he used to be. Otoh, to beat the Lakers trade, he'd have to have offered a helluvalot more than Tatum, imo.

[Ruzious]

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I think that's about as good of a deal as New Orleans was going to get. Boston might have offered Tatum and the Memphis pick, but with the uncertain Kyrie situation, that deal may not have been forthcoming.

I wonder if those future LA picks are the 2021 and 2023 picks, or if they're the 2020 and 2022 picks? The 2023 pick has the potential of being pretty valuable because it's the season after Lebron's contract is over.

Can they have traded their 2020 R1 pick? Trading their R1 pick two years in a row, isn't that prohibited?

If they postpone the deal until after the draft picks are made, they can. You can trade two picks in a row. You just can't trade two future picks in a row. If they wait until the pick is made, it is no longer a future pick.

Yeah, the trade won't be official until after the draft. I think NO's going to be a ton of fun to watch next season and well into the future.

[dckingsfan]

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Danny Ainge is not the GM he used to be. Otoh, to beat the Lakers trade, he'd have to have offered a helluvalot more than Tatum, imo.

The Washington Wizards refused to include Beal in any trade scenario. Said Ted, "we just couldn't pull the trigger on LA's proposed trade for Beal".

[FAH1223]

[Rafael122]

Instead of the Lakers going after a max guy, they should seriously consider signing Pat Beverly or someone of that ilk. Why blow all your cap space on 1 guy when you can probably get 3-4 decent guys with that money? Bev, Redick or someone like Danny Green? I mean who's going to play defense on that team right now?

[pcbothwel]

Instead of the Lakers going after a max guy, they should seriously consider signing Pat Beverly or someone of that ilk. Why blow all your cap space on 1 guy when you can probably get 3-4 decent guys with that money? Bev, Redick or someone like Danny Green? I mean who's going to play defense on that team right now?

Van Fleet and Jeremy Lamb would be my picks. Both can shoot & defend

[I_Like_Dirt]

Instead of the Lakers going after a max guy, they should seriously consider signing Pat Beverly or someone of that ilk. Why blow all your cap space on 1 guy when you can probably get 3-4 decent guys with that money? Bev, Redick or someone like Danny Green? I mean who's going to play defense on that team right now?

They definitely won't get 3-4 guys. There are a LOT of teams with cap space and it sure doesn't seem like there will be a lot of movement in the big names and even those secondary guys will often have their home teams vying to keep them. These guys are all going to go for at least $12 million or so, I'd guess, if not closer to $20 million on shorter deals.

And the Lakers are going to have anywhere from $23 million to $32 million on cap space depending on if the Pelicans wait until free agency to make the trade and if Davis waives his trade kicker or not. That's basically ~2 of those guys, maybe 1 if we're talking about $23 million in cap. I'm thinking they'd be smart to target one of those guys - Pat Beverley would definitely be about a perfect fit, though he gets hurt a lot and they'd be asking him to take on a rather significant role. I think going for slightly lesser known guys where they might get 2 could make sense. Terrence Ross and Pat Beverley, if they could squeeze them in, would be pretty solid. What does Darrenn Collison get paid? Did the Raptors cost Mirotic a bunch of money to the point where the Lakers could pay him? How much is Rodney Hood going to get paid? Might Frank Kaminsky be a Channing Frye for them? If they don't get a max player, these are the kinds of players they're probably going to have to go looking for.

[Rafael122]

Imagine being the Knicks, coming into the offseason with the hope of a combination of Zion, Kyrie, KD, AD and best/worse case scenario you might land KD with the worse injury an athlete could ever suffer.

[nate33]

Instead of the Lakers going after a max guy, they should seriously consider signing Pat Beverly or someone of that ilk. Why blow all your cap space on 1 guy when you can probably get 3-4 decent guys with that money? Bev, Redick or someone like Danny Green? I mean who's going to play defense on that team right now?

They definitely won't get 3-4 guys. There are a LOT of teams with cap space and it sure doesn't seem like there will be a lot of movement in the big names and even those secondary guys will often have their home teams vying to keep them. These guys are all going to go for at least $12 million or so, I'd guess, if not closer to $20 million on shorter deals.

Exactly.

In general, free agency is a sucker's bet. You always overpay. The only exceptions are max contracts to better-than-max players, and sometimes you find value at the MLE level in years when few teams have cap room. The other value area is the vet minimum where you can find guys like Jeff Green, Zaza Pachulia, Wayne Ellington, Shelvin Mack, etc.

If we assume that LA has $32M to work with, chances are, they'll be better off with one max guy like Walker at $32M and fill out the roster with ring-chasing vet-minimum vets; than they will be if they try and pay two mid tier guys like Mirotic, Danny Green and Redick $15M.

Also remember that Lebron is trying to dial back his regular season work load. The reason LA foolishly acquired a bunch of ball dominant players like Rondo, Stevenson and Beasley was because they wanted to take some of the burden off of Lebron. Now, they can do it right. Lebron can slack off for half the game while watching Walker and Davis run pick and roll, and thereby save himself for the playoffs.

I think getting Kemba Walker will work out well. They can then use the $4.5M Room Exception to acquire one half-decent 3&D wing (maybe Mbah a Moute, Ariza or Danny Green?). After that, just fill out the roster with vet-minimum ring chasers. There will definitely be backup bigs available (Zaza, McGee, Koufos) at that price. And guys like Wes Matthews, Garrett Temple and Deshawn Stevenson may also be available for the vet minimum.

[ozthegap]

Also the Lakers need a 3rd star as an insurance policy. Lebron's risk of injury will only increase as he gets older and AD doesnt really have a great track record in that department. If either goes down in a season they'll need more than role players. If both go down theyre ****

[pcbothwel]

Also the Lakers need a 3rd star as an insurance policy. Lebron's risk of injury will only increase as he gets older and AD doesnt really have a great track record in that department. If either goes down in a season they'll need more than role players. If both go down theyre ****

I've already mentioned this in the GB... but LAL have bigger problems than a 3rd star.
They dont have a SINGLE PG, SG, or wing on the entire roster.
Shooting/Guard oriented league based on shooting, pace, and defending the perimeter... and LAL as a soon to be 35 y/o Point forward and a sometimes brittle Big man...

I think on many nights they will get run out of the gym... and the wrong matchup in the playoffs will have them out in 5-6 games.

Also, they have zero assets to move to a seller at the deadline. I think they win 50 games, but I dont think they make it out of the 2nd round... Heard it here

[closg00]

My wish is to see the Lakers strike-out on assembling sufficient talent to contend again

[nate33]

Also the Lakers need a 3rd star as an insurance policy. Lebron's risk of injury will only increase as he gets older and AD doesnt really have a great track record in that department. If either goes down in a season they'll need more than role players. If both go down theyre ****

I've already mentioned this in the GB... but LAL have bigger problems than a 3rd star.
They dont have a SINGLE PG, SG, or wing on the entire roster.
Shooting/Guard oriented league based on shooting, pace, and defending the perimeter... and LAL as a soon to be 35 y/o Point forward and a sometimes brittle Big man...

I think on many nights they will get run out of the gym... and the wrong matchup in the playoffs will have them out in 5-6 games.

Also, they have zero assets to move to a seller at the deadline. I think they win 50 games, but I dont think they make it out of the 2nd round... Heard it here

Well, there's no question that that third star should be a guard. If not Kemba, then maybe Jimmy Butler.

But the latest is that they are more likely to be working with about $23M in cap room, not the $32M that was originally discussed. I don't think Kemba will play for that little coin.

Now I'm thinking their best bet is to go after Malcolm Brodgon. He's not an ideal guy to run the show when Lebron is out, but he's probably an even better fit in a crunch time lineup alongside Lebron and Davis than Kemba would be, because he's a better defender and off-the-ball player.

Would Milwaukee match a 4-year deal starting at $18M? If not, then the Lakers could grab Brogdon, spend their remaining $5M on another wing, and then the $4.5M Room Exception on one more guard. If they landed, say, Danny Green and Trevor Ariza, and then added Joakim Noah and Garrett Temple for the vet minimum, their lineup would look like this:

PG Brodgon/Temple
SG Green/Temple
SF Ariza/Lebron
PF Lebron/Kuzma
C Davis/Noah

That's a real strong rotation when Lebron is on the floor - good enough to win a championship. But they're going to struggle to create offense when Lebron is off. Their regular season record might be something like 53 wins instead of being in the 60's.

I'd like to find a wing defender better than Ariza at $4.5M, but I'm not seeing many good wings available in free agency. Is Mbah a Moute better than Ariza at this point? Can he stay healthy?

[Ruzious]

Also the Lakers need a 3rd star as an insurance policy. Lebron's risk of injury will only increase as he gets older and AD doesnt really have a great track record in that department. If either goes down in a season they'll need more than role players. If both go down theyre ****

I've already mentioned this in the GB... but LAL have bigger problems than a 3rd star.
They dont have a SINGLE PG, SG, or wing on the entire roster.
Shooting/Guard oriented league based on shooting, pace, and defending the perimeter... and LAL as a soon to be 35 y/o Point forward and a sometimes brittle Big man...

I think on many nights they will get run out of the gym... and the wrong matchup in the playoffs will have them out in 5-6 games.

Also, they have zero assets to move to a seller at the deadline. I think they win 50 games, but I dont think they make it out of the 2nd round... Heard it here

Well, there's no question that that third star should be a guard. If not Kemba, then maybe Jimmy Butler.

But the latest is that they are more likely to be working with about $23M in cap room, not the $32M that was originally discussed. I don't think Kemba will play for that little coin.

Now I'm thinking their best bet is to go after Malcolm Brodgon. He's not an ideal guy to run the show when Lebron is out, but he's probably an even better fit in a crunch time lineup alongside Lebron and Davis than Kemba would be, because he's a better defender and off-the-ball player.

Would Milwaukee match a 4-year deal starting at $18M? If not, then the Lakers could grab Brogdon, spend their remaining $5M on another wing, and then the $4.5M Room Exception on one more guard. If they landed, say, Danny Green and Trevor Ariza, and then added Joakim Noah and Garrett Temple for the vet minimum, their lineup would look like this:

PG Brodgon/Temple
SG Green/Temple
SF Ariza/Lebron
PF Lebron/Kuzma
C Davis/Noah

That's a real strong rotation when Lebron is on the floor - good enough to win a championship. But they're going to struggle to create offense when Lebron is off. Their regular season record might be something like 53 wins instead of being in the 60's.

I'd like to find a wing defender better than Ariza at $4.5M, but I'm not seeing many good wings available in free agency. Is Mbah a Moute better than Ariza at this point? Can he stay healthy?

I can't imagine the Bucks not matching an offer starting at 18 mil, and I think they're prepared to pay more than that. Brogdon's just too important for Milwaukee to let go.

[nate33]

I've already mentioned this in the GB... but LAL have bigger problems than a 3rd star.
They dont have a SINGLE PG, SG, or wing on the entire roster.
Shooting/Guard oriented league based on shooting, pace, and defending the perimeter... and LAL as a soon to be 35 y/o Point forward and a sometimes brittle Big man...

I think on many nights they will get run out of the gym... and the wrong matchup in the playoffs will have them out in 5-6 games.

Also, they have zero assets to move to a seller at the deadline. I think they win 50 games, but I dont think they make it out of the 2nd round... Heard it here

Well, there's no question that that third star should be a guard. If not Kemba, then maybe Jimmy Butler.

But the latest is that they are more likely to be working with about $23M in cap room, not the $32M that was originally discussed. I don't think Kemba will play for that little coin.

Now I'm thinking their best bet is to go after Malcolm Brodgon. He's not an ideal guy to run the show when Lebron is out, but he's probably an even better fit in a crunch time lineup alongside Lebron and Davis than Kemba would be, because he's a better defender and off-the-ball player.

Would Milwaukee match a 4-year deal starting at $18M? If not, then the Lakers could grab Brogdon, spend their remaining $5M on another wing, and then the $4.5M Room Exception on one more guard. If they landed, say, Danny Green and Trevor Ariza, and then added Joakim Noah and Garrett Temple for the vet minimum, their lineup would look like this:

PG Brodgon/Temple
SG Green/Temple
SF Ariza/Lebron
PF Lebron/Kuzma
C Davis/Noah

That's a real strong rotation when Lebron is on the floor - good enough to win a championship. But they're going to struggle to create offense when Lebron is off. Their regular season record might be something like 53 wins instead of being in the 60's.

I'd like to find a wing defender better than Ariza at $4.5M, but I'm not seeing many good wings available in free agency. Is Mbah a Moute better than Ariza at this point? Can he stay healthy?

I can't imagine the Bucks not matching an offer starting at 18 mil, and I think they're prepared to pay more than that. Brogdon's just too important for Milwaukee to let go.

What about $23M? Their payroll is already $77M before counting Middleton, Brogdon and Lopez. If Middleton costs $30M and Lopez $10M, are they going to want to $7M into the luxtax to retain Brogdon? (I guess this is why they're trying to move Ilyasova.)

[payitforward]

Brogdon would be perfect for the Lakers -- great analysis, nate!

[Ruzious]

Well, there's no question that that third star should be a guard. If not Kemba, then maybe Jimmy Butler.

But the latest is that they are more likely to be working with about $23M in cap room, not the $32M that was originally discussed. I don't think Kemba will play for that little coin.

Now I'm thinking their best bet is to go after Malcolm Brodgon. He's not an ideal guy to run the show when Lebron is out, but he's probably an even better fit in a crunch time lineup alongside Lebron and Davis than Kemba would be, because he's a better defender and off-the-ball player.

Would Milwaukee match a 4-year deal starting at $18M? If not, then the Lakers could grab Brogdon, spend their remaining $5M on another wing, and then the $4.5M Room Exception on one more guard. If they landed, say, Danny Green and Trevor Ariza, and then added Joakim Noah and Garrett Temple for the vet minimum, their lineup would look like this:

PG Brodgon/Temple
SG Green/Temple
SF Ariza/Lebron
PF Lebron/Kuzma
C Davis/Noah

That's a real strong rotation when Lebron is on the floor - good enough to win a championship. But they're going to struggle to create offense when Lebron is off. Their regular season record might be something like 53 wins instead of being in the 60's.

I'd like to find a wing defender better than Ariza at $4.5M, but I'm not seeing many good wings available in free agency. Is Mbah a Moute better than Ariza at this point? Can he stay healthy?

I can't imagine the Bucks not matching an offer starting at 18 mil, and I think they're prepared to pay more than that. Brogdon's just too important for Milwaukee to let go.

What about $23M? Their payroll is already $77M before counting Middleton, Brogdon and Lopez. If Middleton costs $30M and Lopez $10M, are they going to want to $7M into the luxtax to retain Brogdon? (I guess this is why they're trying to move Ilyasova.)

Correct. Ilyasova's a quality player with a reasonable contract, so he's tradable. But I'm guessing what they really want to do is trade Snell and their first to Cleveland for JR Smith - who has very little of his 2019/20 contract guaranteed. If I was Milwaukee, if it takes a max contract to keep Middleton - let him go.

[Kanyewest]

Well, there's no question that that third star should be a guard. If not Kemba, then maybe Jimmy Butler.

But the latest is that they are more likely to be working with about $23M in cap room, not the $32M that was originally discussed. I don't think Kemba will play for that little coin.

Now I'm thinking their best bet is to go after Malcolm Brodgon. He's not an ideal guy to run the show when Lebron is out, but he's probably an even better fit in a crunch time lineup alongside Lebron and Davis than Kemba would be, because he's a better defender and off-the-ball player.

Would Milwaukee match a 4-year deal starting at $18M? If not, then the Lakers could grab Brogdon, spend their remaining $5M on another wing, and then the $4.5M Room Exception on one more guard. If they landed, say, Danny Green and Trevor Ariza, and then added Joakim Noah and Garrett Temple for the vet minimum, their lineup would look like this:

PG Brodgon/Temple
SG Green/Temple
SF Ariza/Lebron
PF Lebron/Kuzma
C Davis/Noah

That's a real strong rotation when Lebron is on the floor - good enough to win a championship. But they're going to struggle to create offense when Lebron is off. Their regular season record might be something like 53 wins instead of being in the 60's.

I'd like to find a wing defender better than Ariza at $4.5M, but I'm not seeing many good wings available in free agency. Is Mbah a Moute better than Ariza at this point? Can he stay healthy?

I can't imagine the Bucks not matching an offer starting at 18 mil, and I think they're prepared to pay more than that. Brogdon's just too important for Milwaukee to let go.

What about $23M? Their payroll is already $77M before counting Middleton, Brogdon and Lopez. If Middleton costs $30M and Lopez $10M, are they going to want to $7M into the luxtax to retain Brogdon? (I guess this is why they're trying to move Ilyasova.)

The Bucks will most likely keep Brogodon out of all their players who are free agents IMO.

1) The alternatives for letting Brogdon walk become more limited, like Washington a few seasons ago with Otto.
2) If Kawhi goes to the Clippers, Bucks might go all in and will probably be the favorites to come out of the East.
3) The Bucks might be willing to pay the tax in effort to make sure Giannis stays there once he becomes a free agent.
4) If some team overpays for either Middleton or Lopez and let one of them walk, the Bucks will have even more resources to retain Brogdon.
5) Brogdon is a restricted free agent at the end of the day. The Lakers would lose precious time holding their cap space to target Brogdon only to see the Bucks match and perhaps watch other quality free agent targets get snagged up. Brogdon essentially can't choose to sign there like someone like Middleton.

[Ruzious]

I can't imagine the Bucks not matching an offer starting at 18 mil, and I think they're prepared to pay more than that. Brogdon's just too important for Milwaukee to let go.

What about $23M? Their payroll is already $77M before counting Middleton, Brogdon and Lopez. If Middleton costs $30M and Lopez $10M, are they going to want to $7M into the luxtax to retain Brogdon? (I guess this is why they're trying to move Ilyasova.)

The Bucks will most likely keep Brogodon out of all their players who are free agents IMO.

1) The alternatives for letting Brogdon walk become more limited, like Washington a few seasons ago with Otto.
2) If Kawhi goes to the Clippers, Bucks might go all in and will probably be the favorites to come out of the East.
3) The Bucks might be willing to pay the tax in effort to make sure Giannis stays there once he becomes a free agent.
4) If some team overpays for either Middleton or Lopez and let one of them walk, the Bucks will have even more resources to retain Brogdon.
5) Brogdon is a restricted free agent at the end of the day. The Lakers would lose precious time holding their cap space to target Brogdon only to see the Bucks match and perhaps watch other quality free agent targets get snagged up. Brogdon essentially can't choose to sign there like someone like Middleton.

Number 3 is an especially good call. They don't want an Anthony Davis type situation to "brew". Everything they do will be done - to an extent - with an eye on keeping Giannis satisfied that they are in it for the long haul as well as the present. Brogdon's play and even personality match up really well with Giannis'.