2019 Draft Class - Part 2

[Stillwater]

Did you just say Rui and defender in the same comparison?? There is NOTHING Rui does better than Grant on the defensive end.

Yeah none of these 3 have a high volume of 3 point attempts to gauge their usage in that area, Rui is not a solid defender and the other 2 are serviceable , Grant is undersized but highly skilled at the 4, Rui is plenty athletic and does a lot of scoring abilty around the basket, Kabengele has stretch potential and is a good rim protector etc.

Out of the three players listed who would you two want to defend Paul George or Klay Thompson or Bradley Beal?

If you to don't pick Rui to be the guy to defend those all of those three (between Rui, Grant Williams and Kabengele) then I will simply disagree and leave it at that.

I also said Rui is the most accomplished three point shooter of the three, I didn't say he was a good three pounds by shooter (although I do expect he will be).

Rui still has defensive upside but he has a lot to work on offensively that will take up his time. i dont ever expect him to be the defender the other 2 are despite having better quickness.
he should be able to stay in front of quick players but not ones with elite tools until his bb awareness is legit.

[Roddy B for 3]

Yeah none of these 3 have a high volume of 3 point attempts to gauge their usage in that area, Rui is not a solid defender and the other 2 are serviceable , Grant is undersized but highly skilled at the 4, Rui is plenty athletic and does a lot of scoring abilty around the basket, Kabengele has stretch potential and is a good rim protector etc.

Out of the three players listed who would you two want to defend Paul George or Klay Thompson or Bradley Beal?

If you to don't pick Rui to be the guy to defend those all of those three (between Rui, Grant Williams and Kabengele) then I will simply disagree and leave it at that.

I also said Rui is the most accomplished three point shooter of the three, I didn't say he was a good three pounds by shooter (although I do expect he will be).

Rui still has defensive upside but he has a lot to work on offensively that will take up his time. i dont ever expect him to be the defender the other 2 are despite having better quickness.
he should be able to stay in front of quick players but not ones with elite tools until his bb awareness is legit.

You think Grant Williams can stay in front of players with elite tools and Kabengele?

[Stillwater]

Out of the three players listed who would you two want to defend Paul George or Klay Thompson or Bradley Beal?

If you to don't pick Rui to be the guy to defend those all of those three (between Rui, Grant Williams and Kabengele) then I will simply disagree and leave it at that.

I also said Rui is the most accomplished three point shooter of the three, I didn't say he was a good three pounds by shooter (although I do expect he will be).

Rui still has defensive upside but he has a lot to work on offensively that will take up his time. i dont ever expect him to be the defender the other 2 are despite having better quickness.
he should be able to stay in front of quick players but not ones with elite tools until his bb awareness is legit.

You think Grant Williams can stay in front of players with elite tools and Kabengele?

no … the point is even with Hachimura being a better mobile athlete than the others it's not surprising since neither are 3's at the next level and he is( if his handles improve and his shot is falling). Bad choice of players to use as comparisons. Williams is an undersized 4 who is an elite bbiq player in the paint and a solid defender there because of his bbiq despite the lack of great length and he's pretty explosive as well. Kabengele can hustle out to the 3 point line and contain some forwards but his strength is his motor and rim protection with a decent toolbox on offense.
Overall Rui is old for his skill level, and does still have upside because he started playing late. If he develops a reliable long range shot and learns the fundamentals of on ball defense he could be a NBA starter in a couple of seasons, but if not he will be lucky to break a rotation on a contender.

[Roddy B for 3]

Rui still has defensive upside but he has a lot to work on offensively that will take up his time. i dont ever expect him to be the defender the other 2 are despite having better quickness.
he should be able to stay in front of quick players but not ones with elite tools until his bb awareness is legit.

You think Grant Williams can stay in front of players with elite tools and Kabengele?

no … the point is even with Hachimura being a better mobile athlete than the others it's not surprising since neither are 3's at the next level and he is( if his handles improve and his shot is falling). Bad choice of players to use as comparisons. Williams is an undersized 4 who is an elite bbiq player in the paint and a solid defender there because of his bbiq despite the lack of great length and he's pretty explosive as well. Kabengele can hustle out to the 3 point line and contain some forwards but his strength is his motor and rim protection with a decent toolbox on offense.
Overall Rui is old for his skill level, and does still have upside because he started playing late. If he develops a reliable long range shot and learns the fundamentals of on ball defense he could be a NBA starter in a couple of seasons, but if not he will be lucky to break a rotation on a contender.

I specifically said Rui is the best perimeter defender of the three.

You said you don't expect Rui to be the defender the other two are.

If you think Grant or Kabengele will be better post defenders that's fine to me.

As much as I like watching Grant Williams play basketball, I think he'll be in Europe unless he drastically changes his game.

He's a second round prospect to me now.

-Below average three point shooter.
-Bad perimeter defedner.
-Very small for a post defender, also lacks the quickness of a guy like PJ Tucker to compensate in other ways.
-he has A LOT of skill in his post game, but he will be so much smaller than the guys who guard him.

He'll probably have NBA centers guarding him because NBA centers guard the paint. So regardless of him being a 4 hell have 5's guarding him offten.

Even a guy like Kristaps Porzingis will be very difficult for Grant to score over his outstretched arms.

A guy like Andre Drummond or Hassan Whiteside or Steven Adams or DeAndre Jordan or Gianni's or even WCS or Wedal Carter Jr. They are all so much bigger it will be hard to establish post position and he will have to pass very often. The defense will play the pass and the NBA athletes will jump the lanes causing turnovers and easy points the other way.

This part of my post is not specifically to you Stillwater.

Anyone who has THT and Grant Williams both high on their board, please explain to me why.

THT is not an NBA level prospect except for his wingspan. Grant Williams is a star NBA prospect, except for his height/wingspan.

[Stillwater]

You think Grant Williams can stay in front of players with elite tools and Kabengele?

no … the point is even with Hachimura being a better mobile athlete than the others it's not surprising since neither are 3's at the next level and he is( if his handles improve and his shot is falling). Bad choice of players to use as comparisons. Williams is an undersized 4 who is an elite bbiq player in the paint and a solid defender there because of his bbiq despite the lack of great length and he's pretty explosive as well. Kabengele can hustle out to the 3 point line and contain some forwards but his strength is his motor and rim protection with a decent toolbox on offense.
Overall Rui is old for his skill level, and does still have upside because he started playing late. If he develops a reliable long range shot and learns the fundamentals of on ball defense he could be a NBA starter in a couple of seasons, but if not he will be lucky to break a rotation on a contender.

I specifically said Rui is the best perimeter defender of the three.

You said you don't expect Rui to be the defender the other two are.

If you think Grant or Kabengele will be better post defenders that's fine to me.

As much as I like watching Grant Williams play basketball, I think he'll be in Europe unless he drastically changes his game.

He's a second round prospect to me now.

-Below average three point shooter.
-Bad perimeter defedner.
-Very small for a post defender, also lacks the quickness of a guy like PJ Tucker to compensate in other ways.
-he has A LOT of skill in his post game, but he will be so much smaller than the guys who guard him.

He'll probably have NBA centers guarding him because NBA centers guard the paint. So regardless of him being a 4 hell have 5's guarding him offten.

Even a guy like Kristaps Porzingis will be very difficult for Grant to score over his outstretched arms.

A guy like Andre Drummond or Hassan Whiteside or Steven Adams or DeAndre Jordan or Gianni's or even WCS or Wedal Carter Jr. They are all so much bigger it will be hard to establish post position and he will have to pass very often. The defense will play the pass and the NBA athletes will jump the lanes causing turnovers and easy points the other way.

This part of my post is not specifically to you Stillwater.

Anyone who has THT and Grant Williams both high on their board, please explain to me why.

THT is not an NBA level prospect except for his wingspan. Grant Williams is a star NBA prospect, except for his height/wingspan.

Still don't get the point in arguing about prospects cut from different cloths that play entirely different positions and trying to compare their values at the next level...
Grant "was" a solid defender in college, will it translate ? who knows
Kabengele will definitely transfer defensively in the low post.
Hachimura overall is not that much more of a NBA prospect as is than either of the other 2 except that he has flaws that can be fixed whereas you can't make Williams bigger and you can't make Kab faster.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

if anyone 13-15 takes NAW we're fighting.... Magic must get him at 16

But why?? What exactly does he do for the team? Solid 3rd guard on a team that doesn't have 1 or 2?

played decent enough out of position when the starting pg went down showing he can at least handle some initiating responsibilty in the NBA and is a high level off ball shooter and solid on ball defender with good length lateral speed etc.
He has starter potential for sure.

pretty much this above. He’s a solid combo guard that can bring a lot to a team in terms of ball handling, creation and defense. Magic really lack backcourt options after ignoring it for the past 3 years just plugging in random guards (Grant, Mack etc etc).

NAW isn’t going to be the prettiest pick but he could easily come in and give you 12-15 solid minutes and not look out of place. Magic bench depth is bad outside TRoss who might not be back.

[karkinos]

maybe i haven't seen enough coby white but i've never been a fan tbh
not sure what his biggest selling point is to be a lottery pick

[Roddy B for 3]

maybe i haven't seen enough coby white but i've never been a fan tbh
not sure what his biggest selling point is to be a lottery pick

He's very good pushing the ball once it's in his hands, for transition scoring opportunities. He's good as a scorer in those settings and is a very good passer in those settings. He also has a good shot, admitally with a low release point. He's an ok halfcourt passer, but isn't elite as a drive and kick guy. His low release point makes it easier to recover when contesting his shot, so guys can pack the paint a little more than they do even on a guy like Pat Bev. He is a better driver than Beverly (obviously not near the defender).

I think he'd be ideally a thrird or fourth guard.

I think he plays like Fred Van Vleet, maybe a better transition player, but a worse defender and a worse driver when attacking the paint to make a play.

He is 6'5" but thin and weak. He will not be a special defender imo.

In a league with so many stars at his position, I think he would be an over qualified bench player or a starter who would have to be the 4th or 5th guy with a really deep bench and a couple stars, if you want to build a title team.

I think Phoniex picking him at 6 is a reach, but a safe pick. I think he'll fit really well on that team. They would need to add a 3D PF and a few good bench pieces then just let their guys grow together and I think they could be a homecourt playoff team for a long time.

I'd prefer Darius Garland for them, but their 2/5/3 positions are filled with players I like alot.

[shakes0]

if anyone 13-15 takes NAW we're fighting.... Magic must get him at 16

Why do you like him so much? I liked him at the start of the year, but he had a really meh season. Was noticeably worse in ACC play and failed to step up after Robinson went down. Blackshear proved to be the better college player. 13-15 is way way too high for NAW. I'm not even sure he's worthy of a first round pick TBH.

[karkinos]

maybe i haven't seen enough coby white but i've never been a fan tbh
not sure what his biggest selling point is to be a lottery pick

He's very good pushing the ball once it's in his hands, for transition scoring opportunities. He's good as a scorer in those settings and is a very good passer in those settings. He also has a good shot, admitally with a low release point. He's an ok halfcourt passer, but isn't elite as a drive and kick guy. His low release point makes it easier to recover when contesting his shot, so guys can pack the paint a little more than they do even on a guy like Pat Bev. He is a better driver than Beverly (obviously not near the defender).

I think he'd be ideally a thrird or fourth guard.

I think he plays like Fred Van Vleet, maybe a better transition player, but a worse defender and a worse driver when attacking the paint to make a play.

He is 6'5" but thin and weak. He will not be a special defender imo.

In a league with so many stars at his position, I think he would be an over qualified bench player or a starter who would have to be the 4th or 5th guy with a really deep bench and a couple stars, if you want to build a title team.

I think Phoniex picking him at 6 is a reach, but a safe pick. I think he'll fit really well on that team. They would need to add a 3D PF and a few good bench pieces then just let their guys grow together and I think they could be a homecourt playoff team for a long time.

I'd prefer Darius Garland for them, but their 2/5/3 positions are filled with players I like alot.

is he really that good of a passer? or are his teammates just more wide open in transition?

i feel his lack of being elite at anything at the guard position is what bothers me the most. either you have some major potential/upside to be elite at one skill or you're just someone who might be good on the bench if you have a lot of perseverance (aka tj mcconnell who i really like as a role player)

[Roddy B for 3]

if anyone 13-15 takes NAW we're fighting.... Magic must get him at 16

Why do you like him so much? I liked him at the start of the year, but he had a really meh season. Was noticeably worse in ACC play and failed to step up after Robinson went down. Blackshear proved to be the better college player. 13-15 is way way too high for NAW. I'm not even sure he's worthy of a first round pick TBH.

Do you think rookie Evan Fournier would be able to have stepped up much more without Justin Robinson than NAW did his sophomore year at Virginia Tech (an ACC school)?

NAW is 6'6" with a 6'9" wingspan who was one of the unquestionable 10 best players in the best college conference. He averaged 17/4/4 for an NCAA tournament 4 seed and lost to a team with Zion, Reddish, Barrett, and Tre Jones and the modernday GOAT college basketball coach, by 5 points.

NAW is an NBA sized 2 guard with a great shoot and played PG, very well and alot in college. That is rare. Their are not 30 players better than him from this draft and historically (roughly) 30 players from each draft become 5+ year career guys who start games.

What is the question on NAW, is he a bad defender? I would say middle of the pack among average 1st round draft hopefully SG's.

His shoot is very good for a projected 1st round pick SG.
His handle is above average.
His PG skills are above average.
His defense is average.
His size is above average.

So a player who projects to be in the top half of average NBA 1st round pick hopefull SG prospects.

[916fan]

Went back and thought about Kyle Guy a bit, I think despite my concerns on his lack of size an athleticism, he does have a role in the NBA as a shooter. Seth Curry is 6'2 185lbs. Guy is lighter, but also much younger.

[HeadtopChunes]

With KPJ falling to late first territory I want the Raptors to trade up and snag in him in our development program

Problem is i can’t really think of a trade that makes sense

[HeadtopChunes]

https://www.sbnation.com/a/nba-draft-player-finder-2019

This big board generator is mildly entertaining

[karkinos]

i love how it automatically helped me land my favorite player in this draft, pj washington
(3 pt shooting, feel for the game, athleticism)

[Roddy B for 3]

maybe i haven't seen enough coby white but i've never been a fan tbh
not sure what his biggest selling point is to be a lottery pick

He's very good pushing the ball once it's in his hands, for transition scoring opportunities. He's good as a scorer in those settings and is a very good passer in those settings. He also has a good shot, admitally with a low release point. He's an ok halfcourt passer, but isn't elite as a drive and kick guy. His low release point makes it easier to recover when contesting his shot, so guys can pack the paint a little more than they do even on a guy like Pat Bev. He is a better driver than Beverly (obviously not near the defender).

I think he'd be ideally a thrird or fourth guard.

I think he plays like Fred Van Vleet, maybe a better transition player, but a worse defender and a worse driver when attacking the paint to make a play.

He is 6'5" but thin and weak. He will not be a special defender imo.

In a league with so many stars at his position, I think he would be an over qualified bench player or a starter who would have to be the 4th or 5th guy with a really deep bench and a couple stars, if you want to build a title team.

I think Phoniex picking him at 6 is a reach, but a safe pick. I think he'll fit really well on that team. They would need to add a 3D PF and a few good bench pieces then just let their guys grow together and I think they could be a homecourt playoff team for a long time.

I'd prefer Darius Garland for them, but their 2/5/3 positions are filled with players I like alot.

is he really that good of a passer? or are his teammates just more wide open in transition?

i feel his lack of being elite at anything at the guard position is what bothers me the most. either you have some major potential/upside to be elite at one skill or you're just someone who might be good on the bench if you have a lot of perseverance (aka tj mcconnell who i really like as a role player)

The gravity of Ayton, Booker, Bridges and the right PF will make White a good passer.

Not being elite dosen't preclude being good.
So maybe he could be like Chanuncey Billups and not an MVP for things like crazy good numbers, but an MVP candidate for being efficient and making others better.

I think Colby White COULD be like Chanuncey Billups. But I also think he COULD be like Mario Chalmers..

A player I would expect him to be like is George Hill without the defense. Maybe Colby becomes a more consistent shooter, he'd have to do that to reach this comp. But the passing and the shot are both ahead of where George Hill was at this stage. Corey Joseph (both ex Spur players) is another good comp. Many project Colby to be a better shooter and worse defender.

I think a faster Corey Joesph with less consistent shooting percentages but, a guy who takes deeper shots and spreads the defense further than Corey Joesph.

So I have Colby in the teens right now and the amounts to a good third guard who in the right situation could be a heavy minute guy on a playoff team.

[Upperclass]

Colby White is Antonio Daniel's to me.. is that worth a to ten pick. To the right team maybe but he isn't a starting pg.. he's a speed and transition 3 guy

[shakes0]

if anyone 13-15 takes NAW we're fighting.... Magic must get him at 16

Why do you like him so much? I liked him at the start of the year, but he had a really meh season. Was noticeably worse in ACC play and failed to step up after Robinson went down. Blackshear proved to be the better college player. 13-15 is way way too high for NAW. I'm not even sure he's worthy of a first round pick TBH.

Do you think rookie Evan Fournier would be able to have stepped up much more without Justin Robinson than NAW did his sophomore year at Virginia Tech (an ACC school)?

NAW is 6'6" with a 6'9" wingspan who was one of the unquestionable 10 best players in the best college conference. He averaged 17/4/4 for an NCAA tournament 4 seed and lost to a team with Zion, Reddish, Barrett, and Tre Jones and the modernday GOAT college basketball coach, by 5 points.

NAW is an NBA sized 2 guard with a great shoot and played PG, very well and alot in college. That is rare. Their are not 30 players better than him from this draft and historically (roughly) 30 players from each draft become 5+ year career guys who start games.

What is the question on NAW, is he a bad defender? I would say middle of the pack among average 1st round draft hopefully SG's.

His shoot is very good for a projected 1st round pick SG.
His handle is above average.
His PG skills are above average.
His defense is average.
His size is above average.


So a player who projects to be in the top half of average NBA 1st round pick hopefull SG prospects.

HOw was NAW unquestionably one of the 10 best players in the ACC when he didn't even make 1st or 2nd team all conference? He was arguably only the 3rd best player on his own team behind Blackshear and a healthy Robinson. And it's not like he was close to being 2nd team all ACC, there were 3 players on the 3rd team who had much more votes than NAW. He was closer to 4th team than he was to 2nd team.

[Lou Fan]

I think Coby White has a good chance to be the biggest bust in the draft. I watch a lot of college ball and he just never looked like an NBA player to me. He'll be an empty calories scorer off the bench at best. The difference between him and Carsen Edwards (End of 1st) as prospects is minimal in my opinion.

[HeadtopChunes]

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