2019 free agency and trade ideas: part 2 Downloading

[jcsunsfan]

If other teams do not value Warren, we should keep him. It is silly that people do not see his scoring ability as tremendously valuable, especially because of his efficiency and how he does not dominate the ball. We know what he is worth. We do not have to move him.

[DirtyDez]

I’d be shocked if we could get a first rd pick with no salary coming back for TJ. He’s never played more than 66 games in a season and he’s 5 years in. He’s not reliable.

[AtheJ415]

Everyone needs to stop D LO talk. Odds are 90% Nets retain. Peeps need to stop with Warren/Jackson trade talk. Both have little value ATM. Jackson with inconsistent performance combined with questionable behavior off court recently and Warren with the Frank's and Beans helmet from falling on his head to much issue. Draft White at 6 as best 6th man/rotational option, retain Oubre and then cross fingers and hope for best before deadline.

White is not any better than Okobo nor Melton and frankly if Irving goes to Brooklyn I think odds are 90% DLo is gone. They will need to fill out the rest of the roster or go big with a 2nd max, and Dinwiddie at his salary is the better bargain than DLo at his projected one, and Dinwiddie is probably the better pairing with Kyrie to boot.

[AtheJ415]

I’d be shocked if we could get a first rd pick with no salary coming back for TJ. He’s never played more than 66 games in a season and he’s 5 years in. He’s not reliable.

Why? TJ is a good player. Most in this draft, even lottery picks, are not likely to be that. Hell, in a vacuum I take TJ over Coby White (hell even Okobo and Melton) 9 times out of 10, but many want him at 6. TJ is a solid starter in the NBA. He's not versatile, but has steadily improved and is elite at the most important thing on the court as a now elite scorer on all 3 levels.

[DirtyDez]

I’d be shocked if we could get a first rd pick with no salary coming back for TJ. He’s never played more than 66 games in a season and he’s 5 years in. He’s not reliable.

Why? TJ is a good player. Most in this draft, even lottery picks, are not likely to be that. Hell, in a vacuum I take TJ over Coby White (hell even
and Melton) 9 times out of 10, but many want him at 6. TJ is a solid starter in the NBA. He's not versatile, but has steadily improved and is elite at the most important thing on the court as a now elite scorer on all 3 levels.

I’ve just never been a koolaid drinker of his. And I’m not calling you one but I’m looking at it from another perspective as if he played for a different team. He’s shot the 3 at an elite level for two months and he’s either injured every year or unhappy with his role. I just wouldn’t want him from another team’s perspective.

[jredsaz]

Honestly, it's not just a cash dump, as the returning value is additionally in us getting the 9th pick. The reality, whether people accept it or not is that the front office plans to move Warren and Jackson obviously.As for his value, If you guys just enquire around, You'll find that warren's value amongst those outside this fanbase is not that great. Don't believe me, just ask?

We don't have nearly enough value in our current assets to trade for Beal without giving up Bridges/ Warren/ and a ton of picks. Which is why I included Warren for the 9th pick and the additional cap space that the trade offers.

Ball isn't an option. If the Pels trade for Beal, it's going to have Ball going to Washington. Otherwise Griffin will play him alongside of Holiday. Who also isn't getting moved, as Griffin has himself mentioned consistently.

I've asked for anyone to offer better trade options without involving Warren to improve our roster, I'm fine with being wrong, just show me how? But have yet to hear anyone's answer. Also if there's a way to improve our roster whilst still keeping Warren, show me please? I understand that he's highly valued here. Again, warren is currently our only available trade chip with value, Hence his constant trade inclusions.

As I propose often, If we were just willing to add additional talent ( assets) through the draft, Then perhaps we could afford to withhold Warren from being included in trades. But as it currently stands, we don't have such additional assets to offer in his stead. That's just the reality of the situation.

I'm just being a realist, I said a while back that he'd likely be moved, due to Oubres' emergence, Bridges being a core player as well as the need for balancing the team. All the reports that are coming out pretty much substantiate the front offices interest in this.

However unpleasant this reality may be for some to digest, it's going to happen. So at some point it makes sense to accept it.

Warren has more value to us than just being a cash dump. Warren's value to the Suns is worth more than getting the 9th pick. If your proposal was for us to trade Warren to clear cap space and then sign someone like DLo (& additionally get us the 9th pick), then that is something I can get behind. The reality of it is this... the Suns are NOT going to trade Warren before/during the draft or before the start of free agency. It's too early in the process, and it's counting our chickens before they hatch. It's similar to the situation where the Suns traded Marcus Morris to clear enough cap space for us to sign LaMarcus Aldridge. It was too early in the process before Aldridge even agreed to a deal with us, and it blew up in our face. It doesn't make us better in the short term or long term unless that 9th pick turns into a hidden gem, but I don't count on that happening.

It sounds like you just want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. We would go from being a 19 win team to being a 15 win team.

You forgot the 2nd crucial part of that plan. We signed 33 year old Tyson Chandler to 4yrs $52m to convince LMA that he won't need to play C for us. I won't even get into the whole Earl Watson hiring

It's like the plot of a movie that everyone thought was so outrageous it wasnt realistic.

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[AtheJ415]

I’d be shocked if we could get a first rd pick with no salary coming back for TJ. He’s never played more than 66 games in a season and he’s 5 years in. He’s not reliable.

Why? TJ is a good player. Most in this draft, even lottery picks, are not likely to be that. Hell, in a vacuum I take TJ over Coby White (hell even
and Melton) 9 times out of 10, but many want him at 6. TJ is a solid starter in the NBA. He's not versatile, but has steadily improved and is elite at the most important thing on the court as a now elite scorer on all 3 levels.

I’ve just never been a koolaid drinker of his. And I’m not calling you one but I’m looking at it from another perspective as if he played for a different team. He’s shot the 3 at an elite level for two months and he’s either injured every year or unhappy with his role. I just wouldn’t want him from another team’s perspective.

No player should be happy on the bench, let alone TJ in his role on this team. He's arguably our 2nd best player when healthy and the team is terrible and he sits. He's not a star or something, but he's a better passer than Oubre, who everybody loves, and is a better scorer everywhere. I'm not saying TJ is untradeable or something, but a 1st, let alone a 1st in this draft, is not more valuable than him unless it's at the very top. I'm not optimistic our pick at 6 ends up any better than him at all. I think even Culver or Clarke, who I am high on, are 50/50 to be as good as him. I think White has like a 2% shot at being as good as TJ fwiw.

[AtheJ415]

Do all the people who don't want DLo realize he had better numbers than Book their first few years in the league? I know their scenarios weren't the same, but he's a monstrously productive and good player for a 22 year old. And we aren't going to have the space to sign someone as good as him anytime soon (prob another 3 years before we have that opportunity), let alone at his age before he is close to his prime. It's more of a fluke just because Brooklyn is somehow getting Kyrie and would need to make space for a 2nd non-PG star.

[AtheJ415]

Also I think anybody who would keep 6 and use it to draft a PG like White but wouldn't trade it for Dinwiddie or wouldn't want to sign DLo is out of their damn minds.

[jredsaz]

The NBA is a business. When you make it personal by bringing in people with off-court ties the pendulum can really swing both ways and that's when people get hurt. I agree, I would much prefer it if DLo wasn't friends with Book already.

Then the Suns would have zero chance of signing him.

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Didn't say avoid at all cost. Just saying I would prefer it more if they weren't already friends. But he is so it is what it is

Yeah. If Russell comes that's the big 3. At that point you have to hope Booker or Ayton can be the 1. If it doesnt work out in the next three to four seasons Booker and Russell will probably both have to go and they build around Ayton. If you dont take the shot its one more missed opportunity to improve the team and give Booker a chance. If the Suns keep doing that Booker will be gone in three to four years anyway because he demanded out.

Russell might no be the guy but our cap situation dictates a sizable move this offseason if free agency is part of that move. If this is a real thing I'm in.

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[jredsaz]

I’d be shocked if we could get a first rd pick with no salary coming back for TJ. He’s never played more than 66 games in a season and he’s 5 years in. He’s not reliable.

Possibly one of the picks owed to ATL. OKC and CLE. Both project to actually be 2 seconds. The Cleveland pick turns into a 22 second. That's something.

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[jredsaz]

Also I think anybody who would keep 6 and use it to draft a PG like White but wouldn't trade it for Dinwiddie or wouldn't want to sign DLo is out of their damn minds.

You sound like me two years ago. Lol

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[AtheJ415]

Also, I'll say this with DLo.

If we add him and keep Oubre, our lineup is this:

DLo
Booker
Bridges
Oubre/Warren
Ayton

All of those guys are young enough where we could justify picking anybody in next year's draft regardless of position. So, if Russell isn't the ideal fit at the 1 and ends up not working out, next year's PG draft is deep and we'll be mid-late lottery in all likelihood given how absurd the West is, so we could still draft a PG.

[Jdiddy701]

If other teams do not value Warren, we should keep him. It is silly that people do not see his scoring ability as tremendously valuable, especially because of his efficiency and how he does not dominate the ball. We know what he is worth. We do not have to move him.

TJ Warren is easiest one of the top underrated players in the league. I really hope the Suns don’t trade him. I say it all time, he would be an all-star in the East. I hope he’s around when the Suns are good so he can get the credit he deserves.


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[jredsaz]

Also, I'll say this with DLo.

If we add him and keep Oubre, our lineup is this:

DLo
Booker
Bridges
Oubre/Warren
Ayton

All of those guys are young enough where we could justify picking anybody in next year's draft regardless of position. So, if Russell isn't the ideal fit at the 1 and ends up not working out, next year's PG draft is deep and we'll be mid-late lottery in all likelihood given how absurd the West is, so we could still draft a PG.

Rumors are what they are but it looks like the Suns are trying to move Warren and Jackson for space and keep Johnson.

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[AtheJ415]

Also, I'll say this with DLo.

If we add him and keep Oubre, our lineup is this:

DLo
Booker
Bridges
Oubre/Warren
Ayton

All of those guys are young enough where we could justify picking anybody in next year's draft regardless of position. So, if Russell isn't the ideal fit at the 1 and ends up not working out, next year's PG draft is deep and we'll be mid-late lottery in all likelihood given how absurd the West is, so we could still draft a PG.

I'd also be open to trading for Tyus Jones as we should have been trying to do for years, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

[AtheJ415]

Also, I'll say this with DLo.

If we add him and keep Oubre, our lineup is this:

DLo
Booker
Bridges
Oubre/Warren
Ayton

All of those guys are young enough where we could justify picking anybody in next year's draft regardless of position. So, if Russell isn't the ideal fit at the 1 and ends up not working out, next year's PG draft is deep and we'll be mid-late lottery in all likelihood given how absurd the West is, so we could still draft a PG.

Rumors are what they are but it looks like the Suns are trying to move Warren and Jackson for space and keep Johnson.

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And why is that? The only reason to actually want to dump Warren for us is if we are drafting Culver or need the max space for someone in particular. DLo is the only guy we seem to have a real shot with who is going to get that type of money. Jackson has plenty of reasons we could be moving him. TJ really doesn't.

The other thing is to make the space work, we'd need to either: Trade Warren & Jackson, stretch Tyler and trade one of them, or dump Tyler on another team. The latter is the most unrealistic given salary next year. So my guess is they want to trade 1 of those 2 and plan on stretching Tyler. But that's a guess. Not sure what the rules would be on bringing Tyler back on a different deal.

[AtheJ415]

Also, I'll say this with DLo.

If we add him and keep Oubre, our lineup is this:

DLo
Booker
Bridges
Oubre/Warren
Ayton

All of those guys are young enough where we could justify picking anybody in next year's draft regardless of position. So, if Russell isn't the ideal fit at the 1 and ends up not working out, next year's PG draft is deep and we'll be mid-late lottery in all likelihood given how absurd the West is, so we could still draft a PG.

Rumors are what they are but it looks like the Suns are trying to move Warren and Jackson for space and keep Johnson.

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And why is that? The only reason to actually want to dump Warren for us is if we are drafting Culver or need the max space for someone in particular. DLo is the only guy we seem to have a real shot with who is going to get that type of money. Jackson has plenty of reasons we could be moving him. TJ really doesn't.

The other thing is to make the space work, we'd need to either: Trade Warren & Jackson, stretch Tyler and trade one of them, or dump Tyler on another team. The latter is the most unrealistic given salary next year. So my guess is they want to trade 1 of those 2 and plan on stretching Tyler. But that's a guess. Not sure what the rules would be on bringing Tyler back on a different deal.

I guess what I'm saying is that the rumor that we are looking to move the 2 guys who coincidentally allow us to offer DLo the max, makes me think there is some truth to those rumors of Kyrie to Brooklyn and DLo to Phx. Don't think they will trade him. Think they will relinquish him the 2nd a wing max player commits and that's where things land. Or something crazy happens like us getting Jimmy Butler, but no idea why he'd want to play here.

[LukasBMW]

Can someone explain to me what is wrong with TJ Warren?

Pros
-Quiet and humble guy
-Seems to be a good teamate
-Works HARD
-Dedicated
-Efficient scorer
-Great finisher
-Unstoppable in the paint
-Good defender
-Now has 3 point range
-Great contract

Cons
-When he plays the 4, he can get abused in the paint if the other 4 is a "traditional" (bigger) 4.
-Has had some trouble with injuries

At times, TJ has looked like a KD lite. Yes....I said it.

If we trade him, we better get back something really REALLY good.

I'd be so very happy if Oubre and TJ start at the 3/4 as long as we sign a halfway decent vet "traditional" (bigger) 4 to play against the bruisers like Randle, Milsap, etc.

[lilfishi22]

Then the Suns would have zero chance of signing him.

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Didn't say avoid at all cost. Just saying I would prefer it more if they weren't already friends. But he is so it is what it is

Yeah. If Russell comes that's the big 3. At that point you have to hope Booker or Ayton can be the 1. If it doesnt work out in the next three to four seasons Booker and Russell will probably both have to go and they build around Ayton. If you dont take the shot its one more missed opportunity to improve the team and give Booker a chance. If the Suns keep doing that Booker will be gone in three to four years anyway because he demanded out.

Russell might no be the guy but our cap situation dictates a sizable move this offseason if free agency is part of that move. If this is a real thing I'm in.

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I'm on the Booker will want out if we're not competitive soon train. The max extension has delayed it but IMO it's still going to run until we do something to divert it onto another track. These days there is a legitimate avenue for players to make their way off teams. I don't want that to happen and the only way for it not to happen is if we're able to put together a competitive team, something we've been unable to do for essentially the last decade save for a fluke season or two. I don't know if Russell is that guy either but sometimes you have to play the hand you're dealt and figure it out later. What I do know is that Russell is 23 and just averaged 21/4/7 and shot 37% from 3 with volume. He's a PG that has size, can improve defensively and on paper is a stylistic fit next to a guy who just averaged 27/4/7 at above league average efficiency.