Shams: Jazz trade for Conley...

[zero24gravity]

We lost out on a lot more than that. We lost out on last years pick who actually showed something at the end of the year. Contrary to what you say this looks like a loaded draft in our draft range. We won't know for sure until a few years. The future pick protection is horrible because that 2022 draft is when highschool kids are likely to be allowed back in so you will essentially have 2yrs worth of elite talent. That could turn it into the deepest draft ever. Then of course the biggest loss is the capspace that we could have used to sign some solid role players.

I think Allen stinks. He was supposed to be NBA ready, he's old for a rookie, and he could barely get on the floor. We already lost that pick, imo. He's probably not worth the rookie salary he has.

The protection hurts. But we gave them a bunch of filler. This year's pick doesn't have a ton of value. We got a good player in Conley. He should be our 3rd best player, which I think is more than a roleplayer. We should have done it with Rubio and 2 firsts at the deadline. Maybe they wanted Exum (I would pack his bags for him, but now we hold onto that experiment).

Probably two late firsts, I can live with that for the chance to go for it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/azxkas/double_draft_in_2022_is_a_myth_the_statistical/
I thought this was interesting.

Exactly! Crowder & a couple late 1st for an All Star who checks a bunch of boxes the Jazz need.

Guess you just can't ever please everyone. Haters-gonna-hate

[Luigi]

We lost out on a lot more than that. We lost out on last years pick who actually showed something at the end of the year. Contrary to what you say this looks like a loaded draft in our draft range. We won't know for sure until a few years. The future pick protection is horrible because that 2022 draft is when highschool kids are likely to be allowed back in so you will essentially have 2yrs worth of elite talent. That could turn it into the deepest draft ever. Then of course the biggest loss is the capspace that we could have used to sign some solid role players.

I think Allen stinks. He was supposed to be NBA ready, he's old for a rookie, and he could barely get on the floor. We already lost that pick, imo. He's probably not worth the rookie salary he has.

The protection hurts. But we gave them a bunch of filler. This year's pick doesn't have a ton of value. We got a good player in Conley. He should be our 3rd best player, which I think is more than a roleplayer. We should have done it with Rubio and 2 firsts at the deadline. Maybe they wanted Exum (I would pack his bags for him, but now we hold onto that experiment).

Probably two late firsts, I can live with that for the chance to go for it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/azxkas/double_draft_in_2022_is_a_myth_the_statistical/
I thought this was interesting.

Exactly! Crowder & a couple late 1st for an All Star who checks a bunch of boxes the Jazz need.

Guess you just can't ever please everyone. Haters-gonna-hate

How does Mike Conley compare to:
Chris Middleton
Kyle Lowry or Pascal Siakam
Jimmy Butler
Jayson Tatum
Jamal Murray
Nurkic or McCollum
Steven Adams or Jerami Grant
Rudy Gay

[sipclip]

We lost out on a lot more than that. We lost out on last years pick who actually showed something at the end of the year. Contrary to what you say this looks like a loaded draft in our draft range. We won't know for sure until a few years. The future pick protection is horrible because that 2022 draft is when highschool kids are likely to be allowed back in so you will essentially have 2yrs worth of elite talent. That could turn it into the deepest draft ever. Then of course the biggest loss is the capspace that we could have used to sign some solid role players.

I think Allen stinks. He was supposed to be NBA ready, he's old for a rookie, and he could barely get on the floor. We already lost that pick, imo. He's probably not worth the rookie salary he has.

The protection hurts. But we gave them a bunch of filler. This year's pick doesn't have a ton of value. We got a good player in Conley. He should be our 3rd best player, which I think is more than a roleplayer. We should have done it with Rubio and 2 firsts at the deadline. Maybe they wanted Exum (I would pack his bags for him, but now we hold onto that experiment).

Probably two late firsts, I can live with that for the chance to go for it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/azxkas/double_draft_in_2022_is_a_myth_the_statistical/
I thought this was interesting.

Exactly! Crowder & a couple late 1st for an All Star who checks a bunch of boxes the Jazz need.

Guess you just can't ever please everyone. Haters-gonna-hate

Once again it is not Crowder and a couple late 1sts. I don't view Allen as just a nothing and you are talking about around 20 mil in capspace. I love how so many of you and all the local radio guys try to ignore that to push an agenda. With that money we could probably have gotten Darren Collison and Mirotic. So then you are talking about Crowder, Allen, Collisin, Mirotic and 2 1sts.

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[Luigi]

Once again it is not Crowder and a couple late 1sts. I don't view Allen as just a nothing and you are talking about around 20 mil in capspace. I love how so many of you and all the local radio guys try to ignore that to push an agenda. With that money we could probably have gotten Darren Collison and Mirotic. So then you are talking about Crowder, Allen, Collisin, Mirotic and 2 1sts.

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Allen probably has no value. He was supposed to be a good floor kinda guy, not much upside, but help you out now. He's gonna have to work to stay in the league. I wish him well, but I don't worry that he's gone.

The bigger exaggeration to me seems to be calling it 3 firsts. We already used that pick, and came up with nothing. An important lesson about the value of late firsts.

But I hear you about the cap space issue. I wanna see what we can come up with here with TPE or RMLE and vet minimums. I'd seriously give Vince Carter a call

[sipclip]

Once again it is not Crowder and a couple late 1sts. I don't view Allen as just a nothing and you are talking about around 20 mil in capspace. I love how so many of you and all the local radio guys try to ignore that to push an agenda. With that money we could probably have gotten Darren Collison and Mirotic. So then you are talking about Crowder, Allen, Collisin, Mirotic and 2 1sts.

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Allen probably has no value. He was supposed to be a good floor kinda guy, not much upside, but help you out now. He's gonna have to work to stay in the league. I wish him well, but I don't worry that he's gone.

The bigger exaggeration to me seems to be calling it 3 firsts. We already used that pick, and came up with nothing. An important lesson about the value of late firsts.

But I hear you about the cap space issue. I wanna see what we can come up with here with TPE or RMLE and vet minimums. I'd seriously give Vince Carter a call

The fact that some are viewing Allen as essentially no value is such a huge indictment on Lindsey. No one would feel that way if we had drafted Shamet, Simons or Jalen Brunson. They would be viewed as the biggest asset in the trade.

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[Luigi]

The fact that some are viewing Allen as essentially no value is such a huge indictment on Lindsey. No one would feel that way if we had drafted Shamet, Simons or Jalen Brunson. They would be viewed as the biggest asset in the trade.

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That's true. It was a bad pick. But I think it was a responsible pick. That's just how draft picks work, though. You're right that they are essential to the Jazz to keep going. But I can part with this weak draft, and 2022, to try to compete in the Mitchell rookie era.

But let's hope we get a solid couple of picks 2020 and 2021 to keep the ball rolling through the extension era of the Jazz. Without getting 1 rotation player from there, we'll be sorry.

[Stern Fixer]

I will say this, I think Conley is the 6th best point guard in the league right now (behind Curry, Lillard, Kemba, Jrue, and Irving, in that order) ... so if that evaluation is correct maybe I'm wrong and this is a good trade. I just don't like what a short term deal this is. You basically have to hope he has Steve Nash's trajectory (best years: 30-37). Conley has had his two best years in two of the last three seasons (missed one) so there is hope that he's actually better - especially in a different system that has two amazing PnR threats and a dynamic backcourt scorer.

He is not the 6th best pg in the nba.

Curry
Westbrook
Lillard
Kemba
Jrue
Irving
Russell
Trae Young
Ben Simmons
Lowry
CP

Those are 10 players right there that I view as better than Conley. Then you have the youngsters in Fox and Murray that I expect to surpass him by next year.

These are lists based on opinion, so there is no wrong answer. Still, I refute the idea that Young is near Conley. Lowry is nice, but getting worse. I put Conley ahead of him. Simmons? Yuck. Russell .... I don't think so, at least not yet.

Curry (although I have a feeling next season is going to bring out all his weaknesses), Westbrook, Lillard, Kemba, Irving are the only PG's I see above Conley. CP (age, injury, attitude) & Jrue are even, IMO.

I guess you could also say Harden is ahead of him as a PG, especially since it looks like the CP3/Harden romance is ending.

Next year? What about this year? Curry looked like total crap in the finals IMO, not getting anybody else involved, just throwing up ridiculous gargabe shots. Westbrook is another one that has a tendency to be a ball hog with another first round exit. CP3 -remember when he was relevant? You think we made a mistake with Rubio, how would you like to be Houston right now? Irving didn't do squat for the C's either playing hero-ball. Can't compare these guys like they're machines. That being said, Conley has the athletic pedigree (dad's a gold medal winner) which is obvious when you watch him play. But most importantly, he's modest, I've never seen him put himself before the team. Probably the best choice for us. Finals contention according to Zach Lowe!

[Calhamid94]

We should have threw in Exum for Delon Wright. He would be a better backup than Exum in my opinion. Then all we would need to do is address the 4 and get someone that can play solid D and shoot the 3.

[sipclip]

He is not the 6th best pg in the nba.

Curry
Westbrook
Lillard
Kemba
Jrue
Irving
Russell
Trae Young
Ben Simmons
Lowry
CP

Those are 10 players right there that I view as better than Conley. Then you have the youngsters in Fox and Murray that I expect to surpass him by next year.

These are lists based on opinion, so there is no wrong answer. Still, I refute the idea that Young is near Conley. Lowry is nice, but getting worse. I put Conley ahead of him. Simmons? Yuck. Russell .... I don't think so, at least not yet.

Curry (although I have a feeling next season is going to bring out all his weaknesses), Westbrook, Lillard, Kemba, Irving are the only PG's I see above Conley. CP (age, injury, attitude) & Jrue are even, IMO.

I guess you could also say Harden is ahead of him as a PG, especially since it looks like the CP3/Harden romance is ending.

Next year? What about this year? Curry looked like total crap in the finals IMO, not getting anybody else involved, just throwing up ridiculous gargabe shots. Westbrook is another one that has a tendency to be a ball hog with another first round exit. CP3 -remember when he was relevant? You think we made a mistake with Rubio, how would you like to be Houston right now? Irving didn't do squat for the C's either playing hero-ball. Can't compare these guys like they're machines. That being said, Conley has the athletic pedigree (dad's a gold medal winner) which is obvious when you watch him play. But most importantly, he's modest, I've never seen him put himself before the team. Probably the best choice for us. Finals contention according to Zach Lowe!

Finals contention for about 2 weeks and then free agency starts and we become a clear cut 5th or 6th seed.

Also you aren't honestly trying to imply that Conley is a better player than Kyrie, Curry or Westbrook. This is a guy that played most of the season and led his team to the bottom of the west.

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[reapaman]

I know whats done is done, but why couldn't this trade been made after we tried to sign someone in free agency?

If we signed someone or not, we could've made the numbers work from my calculations and imo Conley would've still been available.

Could be wrong, but I think DL jumped the gun on this one.

I don't think you wait and hope in a situation like this and allow somebody else to get the upper hand. The fact that we had been in negotiations that broke off regular season helped us to be first in line and get the deal done. Anyway I like this deal better than the original offer that included Favors - maybe the most underrated player on the Jazz IMO. Now we walk away having lost very little in terms of contributing players and getting exactly what we needed in Conley I believe. Sure, I'll miss Crowder, but realistically, he's replaceable (the bruise brothers - either Portis or Mirotic), anyway his stats were not great; Korver, but let's face it, he's over the hill; and I do like Grayson and feel he has potential, but so far really nothing on paper. Maybe we just resign Thabo now - he looked pretty good end of the season.

PS I'm ecstatic that this went trough so fast actually. I knew something was up yesterday when I saw the report by Shams, but the fact that we are a team courting Bobby Portis concerned me as I thought that meant Favors was in the mix again. Good job DL - let's get Portis now!

Well I don't think Conley was even near our best option, nor do I know if we were competing with anyone for his services. Regardless, I just don't see the rush when he doesn't get us a championship imo, especially when he can leave after a year with ET like Hill did. If we lost out on him, so be it. Like Sipclip said, I rather go after Dinwiddie or something. I just think we should focus on maximizing value because we need more than just conley and whomever we get with the exceptions.

As for Portis, he's gonna want way more than the exception so we can't afford him unless we waive favors or dump Ingles and Exum.

[Stern Fixer]

These are lists based on opinion, so there is no wrong answer. Still, I refute the idea that Young is near Conley. Lowry is nice, but getting worse. I put Conley ahead of him. Simmons? Yuck. Russell .... I don't think so, at least not yet.

Curry (although I have a feeling next season is going to bring out all his weaknesses), Westbrook, Lillard, Kemba, Irving are the only PG's I see above Conley. CP (age, injury, attitude) & Jrue are even, IMO.

I guess you could also say Harden is ahead of him as a PG, especially since it looks like the CP3/Harden romance is ending.

Next year? What about this year? Curry looked like total crap in the finals IMO, not getting anybody else involved, just throwing up ridiculous gargabe shots. Westbrook is another one that has a tendency to be a ball hog with another first round exit. CP3 -remember when he was relevant? You think we made a mistake with Rubio, how would you like to be Houston right now? Irving didn't do squat for the C's either playing hero-ball. Can't compare these guys like they're machines. That being said, Conley has the athletic pedigree (dad's a gold medal winner) which is obvious when you watch him play. But most importantly, he's modest, I've never seen him put himself before the team. Probably the best choice for us. Finals contention according to Zach Lowe!

Finals contention for about 2 weeks and then free agency starts and we become a clear cut 5th or 6th seed.

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Touche. If so I put it on the coach then. This past preseason on NBA TV some analyst was assessing the West and said, there's Golden State on an island, then there's Utah on another smaller island and then a big drop-off to everybody else. I remember being so disappointed a few months into the season when it was obviously not true!

[Stern Fixer]

I know whats done is done, but why couldn't this trade been made after we tried to sign someone in free agency?

If we signed someone or not, we could've made the numbers work from my calculations and imo Conley would've still been available.

Could be wrong, but I think DL jumped the gun on this one.

I don't think you wait and hope in a situation like this and allow somebody else to get the upper hand. The fact that we had been in negotiations that broke off regular season helped us to be first in line and get the deal done. Anyway I like this deal better than the original offer that included Favors - maybe the most underrated player on the Jazz IMO. Now we walk away having lost very little in terms of contributing players and getting exactly what we needed in Conley I believe. Sure, I'll miss Crowder, but realistically, he's replaceable (the bruise brothers - either Portis or Mirotic), anyway his stats were not great; Korver, but let's face it, he's over the hill; and I do like Grayson and feel he has potential, but so far really nothing on paper. Maybe we just resign Thabo now - he looked pretty good end of the season.

PS I'm ecstatic that this went trough so fast actually. I knew something was up yesterday when I saw the report by Shams, but the fact that we are a team courting Bobby Portis concerned me as I thought that meant Favors was in the mix again. Good job DL - let's get Portis now!

Well I don't think Conley was even near our best option, nor do I know if we were competing with anyone for his services. Regardless, I just don't see the rush when he doesn't get us a championship imo, especially when he can leave after a year with ET like Hill did. If we lost out on him, so be it. Like Sipclip said, I rather go after Dinwiddie or something. I just think we should focus on maximizing value because we need more than just conley and whomever we get with the exceptions.

As for Portis, he's gonna want way more than the exception so we can't afford him unless we waive favors or dump Ingles and Exum.

That's the price you pay for greatness sir. It worked out pretty well for Toronto. He's set to make 34.5 in 20/21 which is about 24 more than Hill was making. Don't think we'll have any issues with that clause.
Not sure we really need Portis, with Niang and Sefolosha.

[Luigi]

Fun fact: Conley is left handed.

Not a bad thing to have a pair of guards who can create with strengths on each side. Conley has a strong right hand, too. But if he initiates from the weak side, that gives the offense another angle.

[Stern Fixer]

These are lists based on opinion, so there is no wrong answer. Still, I refute the idea that Young is near Conley. Lowry is nice, but getting worse. I put Conley ahead of him. Simmons? Yuck. Russell .... I don't think so, at least not yet.

Curry (although I have a feeling next season is going to bring out all his weaknesses), Westbrook, Lillard, Kemba, Irving are the only PG's I see above Conley. CP (age, injury, attitude) & Jrue are even, IMO.

I guess you could also say Harden is ahead of him as a PG, especially since it looks like the CP3/Harden romance is ending.

Next year? What about this year? Curry looked like total crap in the finals IMO, not getting anybody else involved, just throwing up ridiculous gargabe shots. Westbrook is another one that has a tendency to be a ball hog with another first round exit. CP3 -remember when he was relevant? You think we made a mistake with Rubio, how would you like to be Houston right now? Irving didn't do squat for the C's either playing hero-ball. Can't compare these guys like they're machines. That being said, Conley has the athletic pedigree (dad's a gold medal winner) which is obvious when you watch him play. But most importantly, he's modest, I've never seen him put himself before the team. Probably the best choice for us. Finals contention according to Zach Lowe!

Finals contention for about 2 weeks and then free agency starts and we become a clear cut 5th or 6th seed.

Also you aren't honestly trying to imply that Conley is a better player than Kyrie, Curry or Westbrook. This is a guy that played most of the season and led his team to the bottom of the west.

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That was by design sir, maybe you forgot how that team with nobody but Conley, Gasol and rooks cleaned our clocks early in the season. Tank was clearly on midway through. Best player there for a whole lot of years. I hear the Grizz are even erecting a statue in his honor.

[sipclip]

Next year? What about this year? Curry looked like total crap in the finals IMO, not getting anybody else involved, just throwing up ridiculous gargabe shots. Westbrook is another one that has a tendency to be a ball hog with another first round exit. CP3 -remember when he was relevant? You think we made a mistake with Rubio, how would you like to be Houston right now? Irving didn't do squat for the C's either playing hero-ball. Can't compare these guys like they're machines. That being said, Conley has the athletic pedigree (dad's a gold medal winner) which is obvious when you watch him play. But most importantly, he's modest, I've never seen him put himself before the team. Probably the best choice for us. Finals contention according to Zach Lowe!

Finals contention for about 2 weeks and then free agency starts and we become a clear cut 5th or 6th seed.

Also you aren't honestly trying to imply that Conley is a better player than Kyrie, Curry or Westbrook. This is a guy that played most of the season and led his team to the bottom of the west.

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That was by design sir, maybe you forgot how that team with nobody but Conley, Gasol and rooks cleaned our clocks early in the season. Tank was clearly on midway through. Best player there for a whole lot of years. I hear the Grizz are even erecting a statue in his honor.

Sure it was. They started the year strong and then fell off while still relatively healthy. They actually tried to tank at all last year though.

Also Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph were the two best players there for most of that time. Conley was good but he has never been great and at 32 look for the decline to begin soon.

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[Luigi]

We'll have to see what LAL, LAC, and Dallas can do with their cap space.

[BudTugly]

Watch on YouTube

[Luigi]

We should probably talk about load management for Conley a little. Same with Gobert.

[Stern Fixer]

HOW TO SCREW UP A WET DREAM: Hang out with the "HATERS" at RealGM.com

[Rauxcee]

My rant on the GB:

As a Jazz fan I absolutely hate this. Is there a worse GM in the league at asset management than David Lindsey? Because I don't think there is. In 3 years he has traded 5 first round picks (including Allen) on PG rentals. RENTALS! Not to mention he sells all of our second round picks.

For a team like the Jazz who can't get FA, they need to build their team through the draft, and collect worth while assets and be making smart trades. It's hard to due that when your GM keeps giving away draft picks like their candy on Halloween night. Unbelievable.

When Conley most likely opts out next year, and this blows up in their faces, Lindsey better be fired.

The other bad side of this is now we don't have Crowder. Which honestly, I was pretty lukewarm on, and he's not a great shooter, but he is our only stretch 4 that we have. For as average a bench guy that he was, he still provided the Jazz their best lineup by quite a bit. Who's finishing games now, Niang? We don't even have any money left to get anything even average as a stretch 4 to replace him.

What a terrible, terrible trade. Memphis just took us to the shed and bent us over.