Summer 2019 Free Agency Thread

[Negrodamus]

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This dude is eternally reworking his body. I can't believe we had a draft where we selected him. It's still mind-boggling to me.

[hookshot199]

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Baynes and #20 for #24.

I know we're helping the Celtics, but some team is going to help them anyway.


EDIT:

mmmm...maybe it's not a smart idea by me

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Like with Ilyasova, you’d have to find a third team to take Jon Simmons so you can match salaries.

Don't the $5.7 (Simmons) and $7 (Ilyasova) fall within the parameters?

[BullyKing]

The Horford stuff is legit, but as a backup if Jimmy/Tobias leave.

I still am hearing confidence that Jimmy returns, but it really depends on if Lakers can clear more space to get closer to max $$. Tobias is a little more tricky. I'm not sure they want to give him a full max, so a 4 year max from a team like Brooklyn could lure him away.

Losing Tobias over a couple of million is pretty shortsighted in my view. Horford is definitely the better player now but you'd be surrounding Joel and Ben with guys who are 35, 33 and 30 and with no clear way to replace/improve them as the ageing curve revs up. Then you add on top of that losing the over the cap exceptions and I just don't understand why overpaying Tobias now isn't a better option than overpaying Horford later.

[PhillyFan11]

Max Tobias
Resign JJ 1 year 10M with player option for 9M
Use non-bird to resign Scott 2 years 9.5M
Trade Bolden and 42 for 2 future 2nds
Sign Pat Bev for 3 years 44M (not sure if we would have to go 4 years or not)
Sign Jeremy Lamb 2 years 22M (decent $ on a good team to build value before hitting FA again)
Split MLE between Demarre Carrol and Javale McGee
Draft: Thybulle, Carson Edwards, and Naz Reid

Ben
Beverly
Lamb
Harris
Jo

JJ
Zhaire
Carroll
Scott
McGee
+3 rookies

[fl311]

The Horford stuff is legit, but as a backup if Jimmy/Tobias leave.

I still am hearing confidence that Jimmy returns, but it really depends on if Lakers can clear more space to get closer to max $$. Tobias is a little more tricky. I'm not sure they want to give him a full max, so a 4 year max from a team like Brooklyn could lure him away.

Losing Tobias over a couple of million is pretty shortsighted in my view. Horford is definitely the better player now but you'd be surrounding Joel and Ben with guys who are 35, 33 and 30 and with no clear way to replace/improve them as the ageing curve revs up. Then you add on top of that losing the over the cap exceptions and I just don't understand why overpaying Tobias now isn't a better option than overpaying Horford later.

I agree. I dont think it makes sense to trade Tobias for Horford.

Now, If Jimmy were to leave, i would be ok with Horford and Tobias

[Sixerscan]

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Baynes and #20 for #24.

I know we're helping the Celtics, but some team is going to help them anyway.


EDIT:

mmmm...maybe it's not a smart idea by me

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Like with Ilyasova, you’d have to find a third team to take Jon Simmons so you can match salaries.

Don't the $5.7 (Simmons) and $7 (Ilyasova) fall within the parameters?

The Celtics want to trade Baynes away and not receive money back. So if you wanted to use Simmons to match the salaries, you would have to find a 3rd team with space to take him.

[Arsenal]

If we lose either Jimmy or Tobias, it's a flat out disaster. If are forced to MAX Tobias to keep him, it's an instant terrible contract.

That's why the Tobias trade was stupid to begin with. They should have known we'd be over a barrel this summer and going forward. We'd be much better off with our picks and Shamet back.

The number 1 way to ruin your future is to pay huge contracts to guys who don't deserve them. Like Tobias.

Jerry West must have been laughing so hard at how he fleeced us for a guy he was going to let walk anyway.

[PhillyFan11]

If we lose either Jimmy or Tobias, it's a flat out disaster. If are forced to MAX Tobias to keep him, it's an instant terrible contract.

That's why the Tobias trade was stupid to begin with. They should have known we'd be over a barrel this summer and going forward. We'd be much better off with our picks and Shamet back.

The number 1 way to ruin your future is to pay huge contracts to guys who don't deserve them. Like Tobias.

Jerry West must have been laughing so hard at how he fleeced us for a guy he was going to let walk anyway.

Tobias > Jimmy by the end of 2021. And I don’t think it will be close.

[VDT]

A parameter that is hard to evaluate is Embiid's health.If they dont feel optimistic with his health moving forward a lot of these moves or rumors make more sense.

[Negrodamus]

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-warriors-considering-possible-kevin-durant-signandtrade-scenario-163738520.html

[Sixerscan]

I don’t think Harris will end up being some sort of terrible contract unless he gets hurt. Itll seem like a lot at first and then by the end the cap will be a lot higher and a bunch of guys will be making even more money and he’ll be good value.

[Sixerscan]

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-warriors-considering-possible-kevin-durant-signandtrade-scenario-163738520.html

So what they’d sign him and then wait until December and trade him? The seems unrealistic.

[FlyingArrow]

If we lose either Jimmy or Tobias, it's a flat out disaster. If are forced to MAX Tobias to keep him, it's an instant terrible contract.

That's why the Tobias trade was stupid to begin with. They should have known we'd be over a barrel this summer and going forward. We'd be much better off with our picks and Shamet back.

The number 1 way to ruin your future is to pay huge contracts to guys who don't deserve them. Like Tobias.

Jerry West must have been laughing so hard at how he fleeced us for a guy he was going to let walk anyway.

A bad contract doesn't ruin your future. A bad contract when you aren't a contender ruins your future. If we win a championship, it will all be worth it.

Even if we end up not being contenders, Tobias and Jimmy's contracts will be movable as long as they are playable.

[hookshot199]

Like with Ilyasova, you’d have to find a third team to take Jon Simmons so you can match salaries.

Don't the $5.7 (Simmons) and $7 (Ilyasova) fall within the parameters?

The Celtics want to trade Baynes away and not receive money back. So if you wanted to use Simmons to match the salaries, you would have to find a 3rd team with space to take him.

I didn't realize you were thinking of a three-way deal. But then what would we get out
helping the Celtics? Baynes for Simmons would help us by solving our backup center problem.
lyasova for Simmons might help because Ilyasova is a reliable front-court reserve.

Milwaukee, of course, may need a center. So do you envision the Burks sending a pick our
way or, perhaps, a backcourt reserve like Connaughton - who plays D, rebounds and shoots
for $1.7 mil?

[hookshot199]

Like with Ilyasova, you’d have to find a third team to take Jon Simmons so you can match salaries.

Don't the $5.7 (Simmons) and $7 (Ilyasova) fall within the parameters?

The Celtics want to trade Baynes away and not receive money back. So if you wanted to use Simmons to match the salaries, you would have to find a 3rd team with space to take him.

I didn't realize you were thinking of a three-way deal. But then what would we get out
helping the Celtics? Baynes for Simmons would help us by solving our backup center problem.
lyasova for Simmons might help because Ilyasova is a reliable front-court reserve.

Milwaukee, of course, may need a center. So do you envision the Burks sending a pick our
way or, perhaps, a backcourt reserve like Connaughton - who plays D, rebounds and shoots
for $1.7 mil?

[FlyingArrow]

I don’t think Harris will end up being some sort of terrible contract unless he gets hurt. Itll seem like a lot at first and then by the end the cap will be a lot higher and a bunch of guys will be making even more money and he’ll be good value.

I am on board a full max for Tobias, but even I think that's taking it a bit too far. Tobias is old enough that we know what he is. He was a borderline all-star who never actually made the all-star game, and probably won't if his scoring is capped at 20ppg with the Sixers. That sort of player should be paid in the high-20s. But based on where we are as a franchise, we should be an over-the-cap team. As an over-the-cap team, we can't just go spend $32M on some other player or players. We either overpay Tobias or we have a lower payroll with a worse roster overall. The goal right now isn't contract-efficiency. It's maximizing the talent on the roster, and the best way to do that is to overpay Tobias. He's only 26, so he'll be signed through his prime years, so the contract doesn't really get any worse for the whole 5 years (assuming he has a normal career trajectory). With the built-in raises, he'll be overpaid for the duration, but not by much. And from the perspective of the whole roster, overpaying him a little is worth it. (In that case - is he really overpaid? Hmm.)

[youngcrev]

"Bad" contract seems like a bit much. Overpaid for the production he'll provide here? Absolutely. But a bad contract implies one that you'd have to pay to get rid of. I think there are a handful of teams that would be willing to give him a max deal this summer, and I think (barring injury) he'd be a guy that they could move without adding value to get rid of him.

[51X3RF4N]

A lot to digest in the very long post up above.

I have 2 thoughts to add.

1) I think Mike Scott is widely seen as a backup PF playing behind Tobias. Bolden can be a 4/5 depending on situation. So backup SF, C, and PG would be my main targets.

2) There is lots of chatter about moving up from 33/34 to the 1st round for another prospect. How would this impact the numbers in your post? Ideally you would be getting a fit at one of the depth spots needed.

I think Cam Johnson at SF is very strongly being considered as a top target.

In this scenario, I think you have something like:

PG- Ben/
SG- JJ/Zhaire/Shake
SF- Jimmy/Cam
PF- Tobias/Mike
C- Joel/Jonah

And still need another wing, Center, 2 PGs, and PF to fill out the roster.

If they trade back into the 1st and take Carsen Edwards, then backup PG is settled in my opinion. He can play next to Zhaire or Shake. We would be VERY young in guard depth and would be wise to sign a vet like Joseph as you mentioned. Same with wing depth, need a vet to come in and help Cam get familiar with the NBA game.

[Sixerscan]

I don’t think Harris will end up being some sort of terrible contract unless he gets hurt. Itll seem like a lot at first and then by the end the cap will be a lot higher and a bunch of guys will be making even more money and he’ll be good value.

I am on board a full max for Tobias, but even I think that's taking it a bit too far. Tobias is old enough that we know what he is. He was a borderline all-star who never actually made the all-star game, and probably won't if his scoring is capped at 20ppg with the Sixers. That sort of player should be paid in the high-20s. But based on where we are as a franchise, we should be an over-the-cap team. As an over-the-cap team, we can't just go spend $32M on some other player or players. We either overpay Tobias or we have a lower payroll with a worse roster overall. The goal right now isn't contract-efficiency. It's maximizing the talent on the roster, and the best way to do that is to overpay Tobias. He's only 26, so he'll be signed through his prime years, so the contract doesn't really get any worse for the whole 5 years (assuming he has a normal career trajectory). With the built-in raises, he'll be overpaid for the duration, but not by much. And from the perspective of the whole roster, overpaying him a little is worth it. (In that case - is he really overpaid? Hmm.)

My point is just that the cap is gonna go up and the contracts around the league will go up with it. Like Jrue signed a 5 year 30% max contract two years ago and depending on free agency he might not be one of the 30 highest paid players in the nba next year. The contracts signed this summer will seem crazy then next summer when the cap goes up another 8-10 million the new contracts will make them seem tame by comparison.

[51X3RF4N]

A lot to digest in the very long post up above.

I have 2 thoughts to add.

1) I think Mike Scott is widely seen as a backup PF playing behind Tobias. Bolden can be a 4/5 depending on situation. So backup SF, C, and PG would be my main targets.

2) There is lots of chatter about moving up from 33/34 to the 1st round for another prospect. How would this impact the numbers in your post? Ideally you would be getting a fit at one of the depth spots needed.

I think Cam Johnson at SF is very strongly being considered as a top target.

In this scenario, I think you have something like:

PG- Ben/
SG- JJ/Zhaire/Shake
SF- Jimmy/Cam
PF- Tobias/Mike
C- Joel/Jonah

And still need another wing, Center, 2 PGs, and PF to fill out the roster.

If they trade back into the 1st and take Carsen Edwards, then backup PG is settled in my opinion. He can play next to Zhaire or Shake. We would be VERY young in guard depth and would be wise to sign a vet like Joseph as you mentioned. Same with wing depth, need a vet to come in and help Cam get familiar with the NBA game.

Continuation from my above post...

If you slot Bolden in as the 3rd PF, and resign Boban, and go get Dedmon then you've got a legit big man rotation.

Only missing piece in my mind at that point would be a wing shooter who can guard SFs.

Is there a 3&D vet out there who might be willing to sign for the vet minimum and play some SF minutes behind Jimmy while Cam gets his NBA legs??

PG- Ben/Corey/Carson
SG- JJ/Zhaire/Shake
SF- Jimmy/Cam/Vet Min
PF- Tobias/Mike/Jonah
C- Joel/Dwayne/Boban

I like it honestly. Carson, Zhaire, Cam and Jonah all younger players with upside, but also 5 vets off the bench.