Moderators: ChosenSavior, UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass
Blue_and_Whte wrote:im still reeling by what Rob Hennigan did with cap space. He turned it into hot garbage Biyombo.Nyce_1 wrote:Blue_and_Whte wrote:Trading the pick for cap space would be underwhelming to say the least.
depends on what they do with the cap space.
Blue_and_Whte wrote:im still reeling by what Rob Hennigan did with cap space. He turned it into hot garbage Biyombo.Nyce_1 wrote:Blue_and_Whte wrote:Trading the pick for cap space would be underwhelming to say the least.
depends on what they do with the cap space.
Knightro wrote:Not saying it’s definitely happening, but there’s a legit possibility that the Magic trade Mozgov and the 16th pick for JR Smith’s contract to waive.
That would open up approximately 15.44M in cap space immediately.
Mozgov makes 16.78M. The 16th pick is another 2.59M.
JR is only guaranteed for 3.87M if waived before 6/29 which he would be. His contract is the last of its kind as the CBA closed that loophole on partially guaranteed contracts.
As much as I wouldn’t love sacrificing the 16th pick for cap space, if it eventually led to signing Russell, I’d have to go for it.
Skin wrote:ezzzp wrote:Skin wrote:Matic said it... I didn't say you hate Bamba. But based on your vibe you definitely don't give any reason to show that you support him. You're a Debbie doubter in his talent and ability to meet expectations of a top 6 pick. Just like I am a doubter that Vuc needs to be here in order for its to be on the right path.
What you need to get over is this extremist idea that anyone who wants to the team to develop Bamba means we want him to be our starter when the season begins. If you truly believe in Bamba then you have to project him as a starter in the next 2-3 years. ...and that would mean benching Vuc if he signs a 4-5 year deal. ... and I don't want to deal with another hard-to-trade contract at that point.
If you remove Vucevic, you put the competitive context at risk. You are jeopardizing the best development context, not just for Bamba, but for Isaac, Fultz, Gordon etc.
Until there is a legitimate alternative to that, moving forward with him is the best option as long as it doesn't impact longterm flexibility. The low $20's price range that most estimate he'll get, is absolutely fine - I've shown you the projection. That's investing in ALL player development and asset management, not just Bamba.
Whoa, is this another backtrack? Nice. You don't want to bring him back no matter what? Now there's a limit to what you'll accept on his contract terms??? This is all new. This is great. Not having a long term negative impact is the hope for what I've been saying all along. Give Vuc 2 years, $80M for all I care. Bamba will be swole by then.
Catledge wrote:SOUL wrote:Just really tired of defending rookies, and then the last years when Vuc's numbers dipped, and I put up stats showing how Vuc NEEDED to get closer to the basket and shoot threes or get to the line and stop ONLY shooting mid range, that was shot down with "He's putting up numbers!" despite being inefficient and us being a lottery team yet again. Now you see how Clifford telling him to do exactly that actually helped the team. Can't be biased with numbers and only believe in them when they work in the player you like's favor.
But a lot of young players actually turn out to not be very good. Payton, Hezonja, and Harkless, for instance, turned out to just be pretty limited basketball players. Now, I'm not trying to put Bamba in that category. I am still pretty hopeful about him, but defending rookies just because they are rookies fails to account for the fact that most young players never become legit starters.
ezzzp wrote:Skin wrote:ezzzp wrote:
If you remove Vucevic, you put the competitive context at risk. You are jeopardizing the best development context, not just for Bamba, but for Isaac, Fultz, Gordon etc.
Until there is a legitimate alternative to that, moving forward with him is the best option as long as it doesn't impact longterm flexibility. The low $20's price range that most estimate he'll get, is absolutely fine - I've shown you the projection. That's investing in ALL player development and asset management, not just Bamba.
Whoa, is this another backtrack? Nice. You don't want to bring him back no matter what? Now there's a limit to what you'll accept on his contract terms??? This is all new. This is great. Not having a long term negative impact is the hope for what I've been saying all along. Give Vuc 2 years, $80M for all I care. Bamba will be swole by then.
Uh no...it is NOT new and you 100% know it - smh, what a joke...in fact I have literally given you detailed Magic cap projections with Vucevic's contract at $23m for the length of his contract AND I have constantly been stating that as long as it was <$25m it was well within the Magic's ability. I have even stated to you numerous times that to go over that amount they'd have to shorten the years. On top of that, I have stated multiple times that $25m was likely WeltMan's amount they wouldn't exceed. Now stop this nonsense.
ezzzp wrote:
SOUL wrote:Catledge wrote:SOUL wrote:Just really tired of defending rookies, and then the last years when Vuc's numbers dipped, and I put up stats showing how Vuc NEEDED to get closer to the basket and shoot threes or get to the line and stop ONLY shooting mid range, that was shot down with "He's putting up numbers!" despite being inefficient and us being a lottery team yet again. Now you see how Clifford telling him to do exactly that actually helped the team. Can't be biased with numbers and only believe in them when they work in the player you like's favor.
But a lot of young players actually turn out to not be very good. Payton, Hezonja, and Harkless, for instance, turned out to just be pretty limited basketball players. Now, I'm not trying to put Bamba in that category. I am still pretty hopeful about him, but defending rookies just because they are rookies fails to account for the fact that most young players never become legit starters.
It's not defending rookies for the sake of thinking all of them are going to be stars, it's letting them actually develop without being crucified 2 years into the league before calling them busts. Trust me, being on the board this long, I have had pages of back and forth about almost every rookie-young guy with people declaring them busts, bad, needed to be traded. Mario, Payton, Oladipo, Gordon, Isaac, Bamba. All of them.
It IS a tank move. Bamba isnt even better than Birch right now let alone Nik. Im hoping for,massive improvement from Mo but right now it isnt even remotely close.Catledge wrote:SOUL wrote:Catledge wrote:
But a lot of young players actually turn out to not be very good. Payton, Hezonja, and Harkless, for instance, turned out to just be pretty limited basketball players. Now, I'm not trying to put Bamba in that category. I am still pretty hopeful about him, but defending rookies just because they are rookies fails to account for the fact that most young players never become legit starters.
It's not defending rookies for the sake of thinking all of them are going to be stars, it's letting them actually develop without being crucified 2 years into the league before calling them busts. Trust me, being on the board this long, I have had pages of back and forth about almost every rookie-young guy with people declaring them busts, bad, needed to be traded. Mario, Payton, Oladipo, Gordon, Isaac, Bamba. All of them.
But the reverse argument is also true, right? People should wait for a guy to actually show something in this league before they plan the future of the team around him.
I don't blame you for being turned off by the tone of some of the conversation here, but I also think it's reasonable to note that the Bamba we have seen is a massive drop off from Vooch. It's not about trashing our rookie. It's about why losing Vooch looks like a tank move to a lot of us.
Howard Mass wrote:Jon Givony has changed his Mock and now has Romeo Langford going to The Magic at #16 with NAW going #18 to Indiana.
RookieStar wrote:Howard Mass wrote:Jon Givony has changed his Mock and now has Romeo Langford going to The Magic at #16 with NAW going #18 to Indiana.
Ey Howard, is Jon Givony less/more reliable than the others in regards to predictions?
Howard Mass wrote:RookieStar wrote:Howard Mass wrote:Jon Givony has changed his Mock and now has Romeo Langford going to The Magic at #16 with NAW going #18 to Indiana.
Ey Howard, is Jon Givony less/more reliable than the others in regards to predictions?
I'd say more. I do recall he got Wes Iwundu right in the second round a couple of years ago.
RookieStar wrote:Howard Mass wrote:RookieStar wrote:
Ey Howard, is Jon Givony less/more reliable than the others in regards to predictions?
I'd say more. I do recall he got Wes Iwundu right in the second round a couple of years ago.
LOL really? I haven't even heard of Wes before we took him. The guy must have some insider sources within the org
MoMM wrote:RookieStar wrote:Howard Mass wrote:
I'd say more. I do recall he got Wes Iwundu right in the second round a couple of years ago.
LOL really? I haven't even heard of Wes before we took him. The guy must have some insider sources within the org
Givony is the founder of DraftExpress, if you are talking about scouting and draft, you are talking about him.
