Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II

[TGW]

A lot of the people complaining about the draft are not mad because the Wizards took Rui. They're frustrated because the process that led to the pick is the same exact sh** EG was famous for.

Sheppard locked in on a player, instead of a tier of equivalent prospects. He boxed himself in and gave up on adding value to the team because he needed to get his guy.

With a single pick, he proved to be everything people feared he would be - Darth Mediocrus, the long-time apprentice of Darth Feld.

Not only that, but seeing this just confirmed even more what you said:

Read on Twitter

If you're going to zero in on a guy, at least bring him in in some capacity. WTF.

The dead stench of Grunfailed needs to be exorcised out of the front office. I just don't understand how a team can operate like this.

[dckingsfan]

If I was GM last night I would have came away with Goga, Clarke & Ponds at minimum.

I was right about Shep and the old guard EG left behind. Rui was 4th on their board! If we had the 4 pick, Rui still would have been their choice! These guys have no business running a team.

Yep - still #sowizards. Shepard needs to go quickly.

I am thinking most on this board would have tried to trade down with Boston and try to pick up 2 seconds (given our current roster spots). Given what Danny was doing - I am guessing they never reached out to Boston (I obviously can't prove that).

According to Shep at least one team called him and he considered it but was hearing Rui may be gone and didn't want to risk it.

[nuposse04]

How does Schofield not have the athletic ability??

Well he isn't as athletic as Clarke, but he is a helluva lot stronger and he is actually a tad bit longer. He can actually space a floor which is nice. Clarke will still end up being a better defender, no idea if he will be an all star caliber player. PIF has some Trump like evangelical convictions when it comes to his player evaluations and how he vehemently defends them and attacks dissenters. Kinda amazing.

A lot of the people complaining about the draft are not mad because the Wizards took Rui. They're frustrated because the process that led to the pick is the same exact sh** EG was famous for.

Sheppard locked in on a player, instead of a tier of equivalent prospects. He boxed himself in and gave up on adding value to the team because he needed to get his guy.

With a single pick, he proved to be everything people feared he would be - Darth Mediocrus, the long-time apprentice of Darth Feld.

I think the process is definitely worth critiquing. Buying a 2nd rounder is a nice departure but the fact they left quite a bit on the table by not trading down is vexing. They ought to be a little flexible in how they want to build the team since no one player in the draft is really going to move the needle more then likely, might as well accrue as much assets as one can.

[80sballboy]

CBS Sports Grades each pick
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2019-nba-draft-grades-pick-by-pick-evaluations-for-every-first-and-second-round-selection/

SB Nation
https://www.sbnation.com/2019/6/21/18693648/nba-draft-2019-recap-winners-losers-zion-williamson


ESPN.com

Which risky move has the most bust potential?
Marks: The Suns' first round. There were a handful of head-scratching moves by Phoenix ,starting with the cap-clearing trade of T.J. Warren to Indiana. That was followed when the Suns moved back to No. 11 to take Cameron Johnson from North Carolina, a player projected in the mid 20s before the night started. The Suns did get Dario Saric as part of the trade to move back and now have a stretch-4 to complement Deandre Ayton.

While those moves can be critiqued, trading Milwaukee's protected 2020 first-rounder for point guard Ty Jerome was a solid move based on the Suns' need at point guard.

Pelton: The Washington Wizards taking Rui Hachimura No. 9 overall. Hachimura's celebrated athleticism didn't translate into many box-score contributions at the defensive end, on the glass or as a playmaker. So if Hachimura isn't an elite scorer, his other limitations may offset the value he provides putting the ball in the hoop.

[The Consiglieri]

If these were the guys they "were hoping to get," then the result is pathetic beyond any imagining.

Rui has a chance to be an adequate NBA player. Admiral Schofield has everything you need to be a good NBA player except the talent & athleticism.

The other 4 guys -- Davis, Mathews, Brooks & Robinson -- have zero shot to play in this league except for Robinson who may sit at the end of a roster for a couple of years.

What a pathetic franchise. Last year we were 11th of 15 in the East. Atlanta will move past us easily this year. But we do have a good chance not to move below the Bulls, Cleveland & NY. Welcome to 12th in the East as our aspirational goal.

Last year, other than the bottom 4 in the East, only Phoenix had a worse record than the Wizards. This year, it's possible (perhaps not likely but distinctly possible) that, along w/ Atlanta, Phoenix will also have a better record than the Wizards.

Congratulations, Ted Leonsis & Tommy Sheppard. Welcome to the bottom 10% of the league.

Who are you to say who has "zero" shot to play in the league?

You are probably basing your opinion off the fact that you are unfamiliar with the pick-ups and that they went undrafted.

Corey Davis for one is explosive and can shoot, so I don't know how you've declared that he has zero shot in the league.

Relax and wait to see what we have; how about it?

Wait and see what we have? So we can eventually know what most knew on draft night?

I've gotten read the riot act by many self righteous fans over the years on here and twitter for criticizing picks and acquisitions before they even had a chance to suit up for the Wizards.

I'm trying to remember all the times I've been wrong about criticizing a Wizards draft pick or acquisition.

This **** gets old as ****.

Don't you and some of these other folks gets tired of the same BS every year?

Definitely, and a side topic that's annoying. Simmons has his bud on House (D.C. Sports fan) to talk draft Late Thursday Night and he has yet another horrifically stupid "Sportsfan" take on our draft basically happy w/the stability, and the low volatility of the pick (calming, not stupid presence etc). House doesn't seem to get that having Bullets fan PTSD, and just aiming for "not suck," is what motivated a TON of the mediocre drafting of the past 40 years, and it's one core reason why we sucked. Sure, aiming highly volatile can give you the clown car of the aughts, but there are things to do to avoid high volatility morons like Blatche and Young, like dig into their backgrounds, check out their mental make up etc, find out the whole Swaggy P horse bleep that eventually cost the Lakers Russell, which reminds me, later Simmons is making fun of the idiot lakers botching salary cap room because of an accounting error, and House illustrates again, why guys like DAT and PIF should be interviewed on these shows rather than your clueless friend. House argues the dolt running the lakers is a doofus, rather than incompetent like Simmons argues because he got LeBron and Davis. Umm, no. Why did the dolt land those guys, why do the Lakers land anybody? Umm, simple, Geography (It's Los Freaking Angeles) and History (the accomplishments of Magic Johnson and the Showtime Lakers). Landing anyone in LA from Shaq, to Kobe, to LeBron, to Davis had literally nothing to do with the supposed talent of the F.O., NOTHING, and everything to do with History and the location/drawing power of the city itself. You don't get to move from incompetent to doofus just because things totally beyond your control we're the reason you landed superstars.

Ughhh.

I just can't understand fans that refuse to understand that when a team is at rock bottom it needs transcendent changes to improvement, not tiny, little incremental character guys. The Browns didn't suddenly reverse 20 years of misery because of slow incremental character drafts. They reversed it when they hired Sashi Brown to blow up everything, bring in analytics, land the #1 overall in back to back years, and then select one of the two or three best QB Prospects of the past 15 years. Transcendent talent and good process is what reverses failure, not small character moves, or just getting high floor guys. You get high floor guys when you're already there and just need smaller additions, when your a bottom 3 roster, you shoot for the moon, because even failure can help (you'll land another top pick if you miss, even in a lottery there is only so far you can fall).

Oh and again guys, the one solace is we didn't trade up, but other than that, YUCK (although I don't hate Hachimura as much as most as he does have the potential to be special, just unlikely to reach that ceiling and #2, because he's far away from that potential, he doesn't help us in the short term, which helps us long term by insuring we'll be max bad in '19-'20 which should be our objective. It's funny, the bad process of the F.O., was accidentally good process. #SOWIZARDS).

[The Consiglieri]

Look at the rest of the draft, specifically the rest of the 1st round after our pick. It’s a whole lotta garbage. Deandre Hunter went 4th overall LOL. The pelicans took Jaxson Hayes above us......Cam Reddish went 10th, one of the worst college basketball players of all time. After that, the suns took a 24 year old that has a chance to become a 8th or 9th rotational shooter at BEST. Thybulle...Grant Williams......Bazley, kid that didn’t play a second of college basketball. Spurs reached on Samanic...

I would’ve preferred Brandon Clarke, but that draft was terrible, and Rui has as much upside as anyone picked after that top 3 group. I’m THRILLED if we traded back and were able to get Rui and Clarke

I can see that argument, and if there was anything that made me happy it's that if we were going to fall far back in the draft, please let it be this one rather than future ones, and yes, the selection does have a scenario where it could pay off more than a lot of guys picked after him. That being said it was still an awful reach. Just glad they didn't trade up out of fear the horrible process selection might go earlier

[DCZards]

He does a ton of research and is sick st heart that we bollocked up a critical draft. I’m more cynical than that and am ecstatic we didn’t move up to get Hachimura ( who in terms of consensus rankings was ranked much much higher than fansuded argued). That being said it was an idiotic reach, and made months of argument and research pointless for the second year in a row. Not good when the bulk of the board is smarter than the FO. I like the UDFA’s though and the 2nd rounder was fine just bummed we didn’t go bpa w/UDFA’s. We were clearly going need there (though I like them).

Not sure how you can label the drafting of Hachimura an "idiotic reach." Most mocks had him in the top 15. The consensus mock had him at 11 or 12. Our own Secret Weapon (Kevin Broom) had Rui top 10 in his YODA rankings.

The drafting of Hiamuchi came as a surprise. At least to me. He wasn’t on my radar screen. But nor was Troy Brown and it looks to me like he’s going to turn out to be a good player and an excellent 15th pick.

Rui has great size and length, and above average physical skills. He’s also reportedly a smart kid with a great motor and work ethic. He definitely needs to improve his court awareness, but there’s no reason why he can’t.

Fans freak out when the player(s) they like or the player(s) they had highly-ranked are passed over by their favorite team. But, outside of maybe the top 4-5 picks, no one here knows for sure who of the next 15 or so picks in this draft will turn out to be the better NBA players. (College #s and performance can tell you some things but they can’t tell you everything.)

So, while some here might rant and rave like they know the future, they really don’t.

[Ruzious]

If I was GM last night I would have came away with Goga, Clarke & Ponds at minimum.

I was right about Shep and the old guard EG left behind. Rui was 4th on their board! If we had the 4 pick, Rui still would have been their choice! These guys have no business running a team.

Gotta agree with you - particularly on your call for Goga and Clarke.

[DCZards]

A lot of the people complaining about the draft are not mad because the Wizards took Rui. They're frustrated because the process that led to the pick is the same exact sh** EG was famous for.

Sheppard locked in on a player, instead of a tier of equivalent prospects. He boxed himself in and gave up on adding value to the team because he needed to get his guy.

With a single pick, he proved to be everything people feared he would be - Darth Mediocrus, the long-time apprentice of Darth Feld.

You don't know that for sure. You can't trust what any GM says in the aftermath of a draft. They ALWAYS say they got the player they wanted and that they were targeting.

Far as we know Sheppard did have tiers...and Rui just happened to be at the top of that tier when the Zards drafted at 9.

[The Consiglieri]

He does a ton of research and is sick st heart that we bollocked up a critical draft. I’m more cynical than that and am ecstatic we didn’t move up to get Hachimura ( who in terms of consensus rankings was ranked much much higher than fansuded argued). That being said it was an idiotic reach, and made months of argument and research pointless for the second year in a row. Not good when the bulk of the board is smarter than the FO. I like the UDFA’s though and the 2nd rounder was fine just bummed we didn’t go bpa w/UDFA’s. We were clearly going need there (though I like them).

Not sure how you can label the drafting of Hachimura an "idiotic reach." Most mocks had him in the top 15. The consensus mock had him at 11 or 12. Our own Secret Weapon (Kevin Broom) had Rui top 10 in his YODA rankings.

The drafting of Hiamuchi came as a surprise. At least to me. He wasn’t on my radar screen. But nor was Troy Brown and it looks to me like he’s going to turn out to be a good player and an excellent 15th pick.

Rui has great size and length, and above average physical skills. He’s also reportedly a smart kid with a great motor and work ethic. He definitely needs to improve his court awareness, but there’s no reason why he can’t.

Fans freak out when the player(s) they like or the player(s) they had highly-ranked are passed over by their favorite team. But, outside of maybe the top 4-5 picks, no one here knows for sure who of the next 15 or so picks in this draft will turn out to be the better NBA players. (College #s and performance can tell you some things but they can’t tell you everything.)

So, while some here might rant and rave like they know the future, they really don’t.

Those consensus boards were and usually are mostly right. Hachimura was viewed as a back of the lottery (12-13) to late teens talent, and in some communities worse. You trade down if you've got an evaluation that isn't meshing with consensus and you sure as hell better have a board made up of tiers so if he does get selected by a team like the Suns that appears to be working with a. blindfold on so you can get your next best guy. Hachimura wasn't a make or break selection, and he was tiered out lower than where we had him by a ton. Trade down. Get value. Don't reach for a guy everyone else disagrees w/you about, get some value by moving down a touch (and if it doesn't work out, so what, you'll accidentally get a better guy w/o realizing it).

[Illuminaire]

You don't know that for sure. You can't trust what any GM says in the aftermath of a draft. They ALWAYS say they got the player they wanted and that they were targeting.

Far as we know Sheppard did have tiers...and Rui just happened to be at the top of that tier when the Zards drafted at 9.

I could choose to ignore all available evidence in favor of my own internally constructed narrative. But how far did that get Wizards fans over the last 15 years?

[DCZards]

Those consensus boards were and usually are mostly right. Hachimura was viewed as a back of the lottery (12-13) to late teens talent, and in some communities worse. You trade down if you've got an evaluation that isn't meshing with consensus and you sure as hell better have a board made up of tiers so if he does get selected by a team like the Suns that appears to be working with a. blindfold on so you can get your next best guy. Hachimura wasn't a make or break selection, and he was tiered out lower than where we had him by a ton. Trade down. Get value. Don't reach for a guy everyone else disagrees w/you about, get some value by moving down a touch (and if it doesn't work out, so what, you'll accidentally get a better guy w/o realizing it).

In other words, follow the crowd. Go with the groupthink.That's how a guy like the Greek Freak ends up being the 15th pick in the draft. Right about where the "smart" guys doing the "mocks" had him.

[prime1time]

He does a ton of research and is sick st heart that we bollocked up a critical draft. I’m more cynical than that and am ecstatic we didn’t move up to get Hachimura ( who in terms of consensus rankings was ranked much much higher than fansuded argued). That being said it was an idiotic reach, and made months of argument and research pointless for the second year in a row. Not good when the bulk of the board is smarter than the FO. I like the UDFA’s though and the 2nd rounder was fine just bummed we didn’t go bpa w/UDFA’s. We were clearly going need there (though I like them).

Not sure how you can label the drafting of Hachimura an "idiotic reach." Most mocks had him in the top 15. The consensus mock had him at 11 or 12. Our own Secret Weapon (Kevin Broom) had Rui top 10 in his YODA rankings.

The drafting of Hiamuchi came as a surprise. At least to me. He wasn’t on my radar screen. But nor was Troy Brown and it looks to me like he’s going to turn out to be a good player and an excellent 15th pick.

Rui has great size and length, and above average physical skills. He’s also reportedly a smart kid with a great motor and work ethic. He definitely needs to improve his court awareness, but there’s no reason why he can’t.

Fans freak out when the player(s) they like or the player(s) they had highly-ranked are passed over by their favorite team. But, outside of maybe the top 4-5 picks, no one here knows for sure who of the next 15 or so picks in this draft will turn out to be the better NBA players. (College #s and performance can tell you some things but they can’t tell you everything.)

So, while some here might rant and rave like they know the future, they really don’t.

Those consensus boards were and usually are mostly right. Hachimura was viewed as a back of the lottery (12-13) to late teens talent, and in some communities worse. You trade down if you've got an evaluation that isn't meshing with consensus and you sure as hell better have a board made up of tiers so if he does get selected by a team like the Suns that appears to be working with a. blindfold on so you can get your next best guy. Hachimura wasn't a make or break selection, and he was tiered out lower than where we had him by a ton. Trade down. Get value. Don't reach for a guy everyone else disagrees w/you about, get some value by moving down a touch (and if it doesn't work out, so what, you'll accidentally get a better guy w/o realizing it).

Ehhh, makes sense abstractly. But if you believe in a guy you believe in a guy. They had him rated 4th. Is the ideal situation to trade down? Of course. But you can't knock a team for drafting a guy that they believe can be a stud. If it doesn't work out, the problem isn't with the draft logic, it's with the scouting department.

[80sballboy]

Read on Twitter

[80sballboy]

Read on Twitter

[NatP4]

You don't know that for sure. You can't trust what any GM says in the aftermath of a draft. They ALWAYS say they got the player they wanted and that they were targeting.

Far as we know Sheppard did have tiers...and Rui just happened to be at the top of that tier when the Zards drafted at 9.

I could choose to ignore all available evidence in favor of my own internally constructed narrative. But how far did that get Wizards fans over the last 15 years?

Literally every single GM says “we got the guy we wanted” don’t be ridiculous. Every single year after the draft, people on this board claim to have inside intel that nba GMs didn’t have.

[Illuminaire]

In other words, follow the crowd. Go with the groupthink.That's how a guy like the Greek Freak ends up being the 16th pick in the draft.

The crowd sets the value for a draft pick. You don't rely on the crowd for your evaluations. You rely on it for how to utilize your resources to get the best players according to your evaluation.

If no one is interested in taking a player until the second round, don't spend a mid-first on that player. Even if you love them, it's a waste of resources because you are expending more value than is necessary.

The second part of this is humility. You make tier groupings because no one has a magic ball; you're just doing your best to figure out the most probable floors and ceilings for these players. It is utter hubris to declare that you, and you alone, realize the greatness everyone else has missed. Using tiers helps prevent people from getting blinded by pride.

Giannis is awesome. So is Kawhi. Yes, both went in the teens. Do you know how often MVP caliber players go in the teens? Once every few hundred draft picks. You can't bank on that. Hope for it, yes. Bank on it? Hell no.

Almost no one here would have had an issue with the Wizards dropping down to 15, picking up an extra pick in the 24-36 range, and then taking Rui. That would be a reasonable use of draft resources, and smartly navigating the perceived value of each player. What the Wiz did was objectively sub-optimal. You can keep trying to put a dress on this pig, but it's still going to oink.

[Illuminaire]

Literally every single GM says “we got the guy we wanted” don’t be ridiculous. Every single year after the draft, people on this board claim to have inside intel that nba GMs didn’t have.

Do all of those guys have the player they selected ranked 4th on their board, and a 10+ year history of the same old bull?

Because this GM does. Context matters. Details matter.

Your self-constructed dream world of an opinion? Doesn't matter.

[nate33]

I'm going to wait a bit and see if Hachimura sucks before I complain too much. Right now, I see a guy with significant strengths and significant weaknesses. We'll see if those weaknesses can be corrected.

[Dat2U]

A lot of the people complaining about the draft are not mad because the Wizards took Rui. They're frustrated because the process that led to the pick is the same exact sh** EG was famous for.

Sheppard locked in on a player, instead of a tier of equivalent prospects. He boxed himself in and gave up on adding value to the team because he needed to get his guy.

With a single pick, he proved to be everything people feared he would be - Darth Mediocrus, the long-time apprentice of Darth Feld.

You don't know that for sure. You can't trust what any GM says in the aftermath of a draft. They ALWAYS say they got the player they wanted and that they were targeting.

Far as we know Sheppard did have tiers...and Rui just happened to be at the top of that tier when the Zards drafted at 9.

Shep was transparent after the draft. Rui was 4th on their board! They had the opportunity to trade down from 9 but they were hearing Rui might be gone if they traded down so they stayed pat.