Rui Hachimura

[DCZards]

But Clarke rebounded like a mad man?

A lack of defensive boards is just another sign of poor feel/awareness.

Court awareness is no doubt essential to success in the NBA. It’s one of the areas in which Hachimura needs to improve.

But the chances of Rui improving his awareness with experience and coaching may be better than the chances of Clarke gaining the physical attributes (height and length) already possessed by Rui…or Clarke significantly improving his perimeter shooting.

[Dat2U]

IMO Rui has much more raw talent than Clarke and he will adapt to the NBA much better. His work ethic is just gravy. Rooting hard for him as his #1 fan on this board.

What's the point of raw talent if it can't be actualized? How does raw talent get actualized?

1. High degree of skill.
2. High b-ball IQ, excellen feel/awareness.
3. High motor.

Rui has the motor on offense and modest skill.

He's 21, also a bit older than your typical project.

Were celebrating his work ethic, but the majority of draft picks are hard workers. What separates Rui from anyone else that works hard? Hell, what separates Rui above his teammate Brandon Clarke who clearly has worked hard at his game and is far far more productive and far more athletic?

The sole advantages Rui has over Clarke is in the modest shooting skill and his frame/height. Every other physical or mental attribute, Clarke has an significant advantage.

So please explain the whole, "more raw talent than Clarke" statement to me. I'd love to understand why.

My dude. What's got you so bent out of shape about this? I get it. You loved Brandon Clarke. But there wasn't much that separated him from Rui. He wasn't "far" superior to him by any stretch of the imagination but you speak of him like the gulf was Zion and...Eddy Curry.

Explain that to me.

So we've gone from Rui having much more raw talent to there wasn't much separating the two?

Are we backtracking now?

I'm always cool as a cucumber

[JWizmentality]

What's the point of raw talent if it can't be actualized? How does raw talent get actualized?

1. High degree of skill.
2. High b-ball IQ, excellen feel/awareness.
3. High motor.

Rui has the motor on offense and modest skill.

He's 21, also a bit older than your typical project.

Were celebrating his work ethic, but the majority of draft picks are hard workers. What separates Rui from anyone else that works hard? Hell, what separates Rui above his teammate Brandon Clarke who clearly has worked hard at his game and is far far more productive and far more athletic?

The sole advantages Rui has over Clarke is in the modest shooting skill and his frame/height. Every other physical or mental attribute, Clarke has an significant advantage.

So please explain the whole, "more raw talent than Clarke" statement to me. I'd love to understand why.

My dude. What's got you so bent out of shape about this? I get it. You loved Brandon Clarke. But there wasn't much that separated him from Rui. He wasn't "far" superior to him by any stretch of the imagination but you speak of him like the gulf was Zion and...Eddy Curry.

Explain that to me.

So we've gone from Rui having much more raw talent to there wasn't much separating the two?

Are we backtracking now?

I'm always cool as a cucumber

Don't play semantics man. I said I believe he has more raw talent. I think he'll adjust to the NBA game better and quicker. I did not say he was heads and above Clarke. Or that Clarke was terrible. That's you and PIF.

[Shoe]

The Spurs wanted Hachimura, and they passed on Clarke. Interesting.

[Mizerooskie]

The Spurs wanted Hachimura, and they passed on Clarke. Interesting.

Yeah, too bad they don't know much about talent identification.

[Kanyewest]

I'm mostly going to judge this pick by how PJ Washington turns out, he seemed like the better prospect at the position and the better fit.

Funny thing it was the Hornets who took Washington- and Ryen Russillo and Tate Frazier of the Ringer each said that the Hornets top target at #12 was Rui. Rusillo also followed it up by saying that he talked another team in the 20s and said that Hachimua would not who they would have selected in the 20s. Appears to be a wide variance on what people think of these prospects.

[payitforward]

Uh huh. Tell me, did you watch either of them play? Have you looked at the numbers either of them posted?

Btw, Brandon Clarke is 22. He is 17 months older than Rui Hachimura. Unlike Rui, he is an outstanding basketball player.

I think he meant that with just 7 years basketball experience, Rui is bound to improve, and Rui is known for his work ethic, so it's possible. One thing about Rui is that he will work his arse off, and that's part of defense.

That's what I meant. It's doubtful Clarke has another level to him at this point. If he does, I'll eat crow....

Fair enough -- I recommend getting ready, as Brandon Clarke is likely to be one of the 4-6 best players to come out of this draft.

Not to mention that, right now, Brandon Clarke is far enough ahead of Rui that only the most optimistic result of any work Rui does is likely to get him near Clarke.

...Rui started playing basketball at 13 in a country that isn't known to produce basketball players. All his flaws are valid, if he was a 4 year guy and he worked his way up through the AAU circuit, I'd have a problem with the pick because between his age and the fact that he would have been around basketball for awhile, he's probably not going to improve. I'm banking on the lack of experience and lack of organized basketball during his teenage years as the reason why he lacks court vision, doesn't have an impact on the defensive side despite having the length to do so, etc.....

The fact that he started late is not evidence that he will, or even can, improve! All it does is explain why he needs to improve. Needing to improve does not help you improve.

All this stuff can be coached....

Sure. In fact, everything in basketball both can be & is coached. Kids don't rise out of the cradle & develop naturally into good basketball players.

But, just as in the mistaken point above, needing to be coached doesn't imply that you will improve enough when coached. After all, in every human endeavor I can think of, people who start young have an advantage; sometimes it's an advantage that is permanent. Usually it creates a gap that can't be entirely closed -- even if it can be narrowed. & I don't mean to suggest that it can't in Rui's case; I don't mean to suggest he can't become a better basketball player -- of course he can. How good is an open question. Partly it's up to him (i.e. work ethic). Partly it's up to coaching (are the Wizards known for player development? No. In fact, it's not a big part of NBA basketball).

But, to the largest extent it's simply an unknown. Whether as a Wizard or for any other team, either Rui or any other player, of course I hope he's going to improve -- who wants to see people fail? But, that's not the point at all.

The point is -- you can't argue he'll get better just b/c he needs to -- no matter the reason he needs to! Every player has unknowns, of course. Duh. Even Zion. But, usually, the more unknowns there are, the more question marks about a prospect's future, the more they cost him in pick position. I mean... if Rui was a top prospect, one of the most talented kids in the draft, except with a special set of problems coming from his late start, then maybe... but the point is that he's not. He hasn't shown that at all.

...If the Spurs traded up and picked him, it would have been "of course" or "if the Spurs liked him, we should have picked him!" This organization doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. I think it's a solid pick, I'm indifferent. I was a fan of trading down, but it is what it is at this point.

Yup, it is what it is -- just as trading a lottery pick for Kieff was; just as signing a stiff like Andrew Nicholson was, & so forth. Those were stupid mistakes; this was a stupid mistake. "I think it's a solid pick," you write -- the problem is that there is no reason whatever for you to think that. The only reason you can think it is because it's the pick we made.

As to the Spurs, come on Rafael..., the point is that the Spurs *did not* trade up & pick him! Nor did they reach when their spot came, the way we just did with Rui. They picked Luka Samanic -- he's likely to be a better NBA player than Rui IMO (& that's all it is -- an opinion). But they didn't spend a #9 pick on him.

The worst is that Sheppard has said there was a trade down available -- we don't know what it was, of course, but #9 to the Celtics for #s 20 & 22 was rumored -- & since the Celts did in fact wind up trading one of those picks....

With those 2 picks we would have been able to take Brandon Clarke (a much better player than Rui) & either Grant Williams or Matisse Thybulle (IMO both of them better players than Rui).

We'll see whether I'm right that Clarke, above all (since I lobbied for him insistently), is a whole huge lot better than Rui. But, you can bet that the combination of Clarke & Williams or Thybulle will certainly be! If I'm wrong, then -- like you -- I too will eat crow!

[payitforward]

...Looking at the the 2018/19 data has Clarke with 7.8 defensive rebounds per 40 and Hachimura with 6.8.

Not a huge a difference, and it also points to Clarke's rebounding (12.2 per 40) numbers perhaps being a bit overinflated by virtue of his offensive rebounding.

I don't believe I just read that last sentence, I really don't.

Do you understand that per 40 minutes, Brandon Clarke took 14.4 shots, made 9.9 of them & got 4.3 of his 4.5 misses back for his team by way of offensive rebounds? Think about that....

edit: this is the Rui Hachimura thread. I don't want to write about Brandon Clarke here, believe it or not. As soon as everyone stops trying to make a mediocre player, Rui, look like he was almost as good as a terrific player, Clarke, I won't have to correct the information-twisting. Clarke is gone; we don't have to talk about him.

[queridiculo]

...Looking at the the 2018/19 data has Clarke with 7.8 defensive rebounds per 40 and Hachimura with 6.8.

Not a huge a difference, and it also points to Clarke's rebounding (12.2 per 40) numbers perhaps being a bit overinflated by virtue of his offensive rebounding.

I don't believe I just read that last sentence, I really don't.

Do you understand that per 40 minutes, Brandon Clarke took 14.4 shots, made 9.9 of them & got 4.3 of his 4.5 misses back for his team by way of offensive rebounds? Think about that....

On the subject of incredulity, Gonzaga was one of the best teams in nation but only ranked 121st in offensive rebounding.

How do you reconcile the value of Clarke's offensive rebounding with team success in light of those numbers?

[Halcyon]

Rui will be great, and a bunch of y'all will eat crow. Check back in a few years.

[payitforward]

Good, & I hope he does. & I hope he improves so that there is some chance for him to turn into a passable NBA journeyman. One day.

Until then he is what he is now. Not much.

He is already a passable NBA player. And it's not even close. Dude could stop onto the floor right now and score. Unless you have a player that's going to be a perennial all-star I don't even get your complaints.

Better re-charge that crystal ball!

He's not any kind of NBA player; how could he be? He's never played an NBA minute.

But whatever he is or turns out to be, I have no "complaints" about Rui. I have a negative assessment -- shared widely everywhere -- of the Wizards 2019 draft.

You can think what you want about that, but I'm pretty sure you don't have the history I have or spend the time I do analyzing college players -- & my advice is... don't emulate me, whatever you do!

I hope Rui knocks it out of the park; I really do. Ditto Schofield for that matter. I hope Justin Robinson & the other nobodies we signed post-draft turn out to be terrific players. But, unfortunately, there is very little likelihood of any of those things happening.

[payitforward]

I'm mostly going to judge this pick by how PJ Washington turns out, he seemed like the better prospect at the position and the better fit.

Agreed. But, the list of better prospects at the position (pick position & position on the floor) is quite long. Samanic, Clarke & Williams for starters -- 10 picks later, 11 picks later & 12 picks later.

[DCZards]

Dub post

[DCZards]

But whatever he is or turns out to be, I have no "complaints" about Rui. I have a negative assessment -- shared widely everywhere -- of the Wizards 2019 draft.

The grades I’ve seen for drafting Rui have been a mixed bag. Some Bs, some Cs, some Ds.

A couple of former ballers—Chauncey Billups & Jalen Rose—compared Rui to Kawhi. Not that I’m buying into that hype.

[payitforward]

All hail Wins Produced and the god of offensive rebounds! Shame the dissenters! Shame!

What's the last thing you were right about, do tell?

ohhh...please PIF. You really need to come down off your pompous high horse.

Let me ask you do something for me, Zards: first take a deep breath & relax, then reread the sentence of mine you criticized.

& then go up a line, & read the offensive BS that X$#%@%! nuposse sent my way -- to which I was responding.

Now... are you still sure your critique of me was really warranted?

I actually thought I was pretty mild. I erased the first thing I wrote, fortunately.

[nate33]

Fair enough -- I recommend getting ready, as Brandon Clarke is likely to be one of the 4-6 best players to come out of this draft.

There is no doubt that Clarke was a phenomenal college basketball player. If Clarke was 6-9 with a 7-0 wingspan and weighed 225, he would be a no-brainer top 3 pick. But since he is 6-8 with a 6-8 wingspan and 209 pounds, there is cause for concern. Nobody with his length and girth has succeeded at the PF/C position. It's a gamble.

Maybe Clarke will break the mold, but I can understand the reluctance to risk the #9 pick on the possibility.

I'm on the record saying I would have taken Clarke. So are you. But we might be wrong. Can you please stop arguing with everyone about why you believe you are right on the issue? We all know your reasoning.

Let's just wait a bit before we commence with the I told you so's.

[NatP4]

give Rui a try, PIF. Last year you did everything you could to pump the brakes on any excitement about Troy Brown Jr during summer league.

I wanted Brandon Clarke badly, the Rui pick was extremely disappointing, but he makes mid range Js like layups, like Otto, it feels nostalgic, he seems like a high character hard working player, give him a shot. Atleast it isn't one of the players picked around us at 9:

8: Jaxson Hayes (rebounds like a SF and fouls 5.2 times per36, plays a position that is going extinct)
10. Cam Reddish (who shot the ball 432 times at Duke and only 154 went in)
11. Cam Johnson (24 year old fringe role player ceiling)

[pcbothwel]

But Clarke rebounded like a mad man?

A lack of defensive boards is just another sign of poor feel/awareness.

Court awareness is no doubt essential to success in the NBA. It’s one of the areas in which Hachimura needs to improve.

But the chances of Rui improving his awareness with experience and coaching may be better than the chances of Clarke gaining the physical attributes (height and length) already possessed by Rui…or Clarke significantly improving his perimeter shooting.

This is indeed the wild card. Remember, its not just work ethic, its aptitude. And Rui appears to be an Extremely hard worker...but also is called a "Sponge" by his coach. If you look at the changes hes made to his body, his ability to learn english as fast as he did, along with his vast improvements as a player... it shows me he is a hard worker who has the raw IQ/skills to learn.

Another thing I love. Just like Kawhi & Otto, Rui didnt grow up on the AAU circuit that makes everyone happy and be Lebron. Like Otto and Kawhi, he was playing more of a bigman role as a teenager and probably why he has the physicality he has now.

I also find it funny that some people were pointing out steals/diamonds in the rough in recent years and their commonality.
It was shown that rangy forwards with big hands/wingspan was a great start....well...

BTW... The Jamison/Melo comp is what I have been feeling, but I have another.

- Highly skilled offensive combo forward with good, but not great athleticism.
- Good shooter, but some questioned if he could stretch it out.
- Below average rebounder for 4
- Poor vision with higher Turnovers than assist
- Played on elite team and was sometimes out shined by older, less heralded teammates

Spoiler:

Jayson Tatum
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=rui-hachimura--jayson-tatum

[WizarDynasty]

Rui and james worthy..

[Gig18]

But Clarke rebounded like a mad man?

A lack of defensive boards is just another sign of poor feel/awareness.

Court awareness is no doubt essential to success in the NBA. It’s one of the areas in which Hachimura needs to improve.

But the chances of Rui improving his awareness with experience and coaching may be better than the chances of Clarke gaining the physical attributes (height and length) already possessed by Rui…or Clarke significantly improving his perimeter shooting.

This is indeed the wild card. Remember, its not just work ethic, its aptitude. And Rui appears to be an Extremely hard worker...but also is called a "Sponge" by his coach. If you look at the changes hes made to his body, his ability to learn english as fast as he did, along with his vast improvements as a player... it shows me he is a hard worker who has the raw IQ/skills to learn.

Another thing I love. Just like Kawhi & Otto, Rui didnt grow up on the AAU circuit that makes everyone happy and be Lebron. Like Otto and Kawhi, he was playing more of a bigman role as a teenager and probably why he has the physicality he has now.

I also find it funny that some people were pointing out steals/diamonds in the rough in recent years and their commonality.
It was shown that rangy forwards with big hands/wingspan was a great start....well...

BTW... The Jamison/Melo comp is what I have been feeling, but I have another.

- Highly skilled offensive combo forward with good, but not great athleticism.
- Good shooter, but some questioned if he could stretch it out.
- Below average rebounder for 4
- Poor vision with higher Turnovers than assist
- Played on elite team and was sometimes out shined by older, less heralded teammates

Spoiler:

Jayson Tatum
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=rui-hachimura--jayson-tatum

reminds me a little of Millsap at this point. I can also see the Kawhi---San Diego State--- comparison.
he's got holes, but he's also got some relevant skills. they're just not the ones that people find exciting. he's an excellent low post and mid-range scorer. he can run the floor and he can even push it up court.
we'll have to see if his defensive and offensive awareness improve. he's big, strong, got some handles and is used to being a scoring option. we'll see....