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Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread

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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1321 » by nate33 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:05 pm

Dat2U wrote:Sato is really here because we have ZERO options at PG for most of the season and for the young kids, Troy & Rui. You want a vet PG that can get the team into their sets, keep the offense organized and run the offense smoothly. That's better than the alternative of having a fringe guy or struggling young guard trying to step into that role.

The idea is putting your young guys in the best positions to be successful. A smart vet PG is essential to this. We don't want to be the Knicks... where most of their key young guys struggled to develop at all - they had no veteran support.

The other real nice thing about Sato is that he doesn't have to play "PG". He's just a guy who can go out there and do stuff at either the PG, SG or SF position. Even when Wall gets back, it won't be hard to find 24-30 minutes a night for Sato and thereby justify his contract. What we can't afford to do is pay some guy $6-10M when he can only play the PG position, because when Wall gets back, there will only be 12-15 minutes available for that guy.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1322 » by gambitx777 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:10 pm

I wouldn't mind trying to pick up Jeremy Lin on a vet min deal but I also wanna see the young guys play too. Not to mention are we getting another injured player exception for wall?
nate33 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Sato is really here because we have ZERO options at PG for most of the season and for the young kids, Troy & Rui. You want a vet PG that can get the team into their sets, keep the offense organized and run the offense smoothly. That's better than the alternative of having a fringe guy or struggling young guard trying to step into that role.

The idea is putting your young guys in the best positions to be successful. A smart vet PG is essential to this. We don't want to be the Knicks... where most of their key young guys struggled to develop at all - they had no veteran support.

The other real nice thing about Sato is that he doesn't have to play "PG". He's just a guy who can go out there and do stuff at either the PG, SG or SF position. Even when Wall gets back, it won't be hard to find 24-30 minutes a night for Sato and thereby justify his contract. What we can't afford to do is pay some guy $6-10M when he can only play the PG position, because when Wall gets back, there will only be 12-15 minutes available for that guy.


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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1323 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:07 pm

nate33 wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:At this point, I would waive Howard and Mahinmi.

I would retain Satoransky, Bryant, Dekker.

I would target RFA Jerian Grant & UFA Richaun Holmes.

Bryant, Holmes, Hachimura, Dekker, Schofield, Beal, Brown Jr., Satoransky, Grant


This should be the new foundation of the roster. Start with this and build from there.

Grant? Why?

He averages 9.6 points and 6.0 assists per 36 minutes as a backup. He doesn't get to the FT line, he's not much of a 3-point shooter, and he has horrific on/off numbers (-9.9 per 100 possession). And he turns 27 before the start of the season so it's not like he'll improve much going forward.




He's just a solid player, a local guy, good attitude, good defensively, good assist to TO, rebounds, versatile, plays hard... a good guy to add with these young players and fits the culture this team is trying to build IMO. Plus Wall will miss most of not all of this season and it would be good to just have a solid guy who knows his role and what to do as Satoransky's backup of the occasional start when Sato is out, and keep the team steady.

My bigger point is I would let go of Ariza, Green, Howard, Mahinmi, parker, Portis, Johnson, to go with a group of young low cost motivated guys that will play hard and grow together. I like that core of 9 I got there as far as the personalities, the skills, coachability, the work ethic, and I think the pieces in that group could really fit together well and be a cohesive unit.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1324 » by doclinkin » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:30 pm

The Rui Clarke boondoggle has finally driven PIF over the edge. Everyone has a breaking point. This clearly snapped his fragile brain. The only saving grace will be if Rui somehow manages to have a better career than Clarke. Or Clarke and everyone else that PIF claims he would’ve picked. But if not then be prepared to hear about it ad nauseum. Yet another reason to root for the guy we did pick. Earn us some ‘shut yo mouth’ points Rui. Lessgo!

Personally yeah I wanted a trade down. And Clarke was on my list of players who could be good. Worth a pick. But as a Wizards fan you either have to love griping and bitching. Or have a short memory or optimistic heart and move on quickly. Me I’m in the second category. Already have welcomed Hachimura into my heart with no bitterness over what could’ve been. I’m deciding he’s gonna be good. Until he proves otherwise or is traded to another team then in the sunny oasis of my fandom he shines bright and will always someday be a great player. Clarke? That’s a guy on another team. Who cares. I’ve moved on. Love the one you’re with.

Says the guy who still kicks rocks when he thinks about my guy Steph Curry. Wanted him since his freshman year.

But yes. Onward. Hachination. There’s good character guys on this squad. It will be fun seeing them work and learn. My expectations are low so for now I’m looking for development and scrappy play and maybe eventually we hire a front office team that changes the culture and builds a dynasty. Just I dunno. Maybe not this year. We will see.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1325 » by payitforward » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:20 am

Howard & Mahinmi are guaranteed just over $21m; there's no "let go" option. But, neither of them will be back next year.

Ariza, Green & Johnson are not on the Washington Wizards roster. Green might be back.

Next Saturday, 6/29, is the deadline to give Portis his qualifying offer; I assume we won't do it. Ditto Sam Dekker, whom you don't mention.

We have already declined Parker's option.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1326 » by RodyTur10 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:40 am

Hello, I'm a Celtics fan (so we're basically already huge enemies), but my question comes down to how you can hate us even more.
We need a new center (Horford, Baynes gone), me I like Thomas Bryant.

How much do you guys think the Celtics would need to offer to Bryant such that the Wizards won't match?
(I know about the Arenas provision, potential backloaded contract)

I told you that it would be a suggestion to increase hate, but I am looking for a serious answer.
(it's not like discussing it has influence)
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1327 » by gambitx777 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:55 am

I think north of 4 for 40 mill would start giving the wizards cold feet. Anywhere north of ten mill a year and you start getting into albatross contract territory if he does not make marked improvements. Kind of like the plumlee or mahinmi contracts. But Bryant is young and skilled enough he should improve.
RodyTur10 wrote:Hello, I'm a Celtics fan (so we're basically already huge enemies), but my question comes down to how you can hate us even more.
We need a new center (Horford, Baynes gone), me I like Thomas Bryant.

How much do you guys think the Celtics would need to offer to Bryant such that the Wizards won't match?
(I know about the Arenas provision, potential backloaded contract)

I told you that it would be a suggestion to increase hate, but I am looking for a serious answer.
(it's not like discussing it has influence)


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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1328 » by payitforward » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:58 am

doclinkin wrote:The Rui Clarke boondoggle has finally driven PIF over the edge. Everyone has a breaking point. This clearly snapped his fragile brain. The only saving grace will be if Rui somehow manages to have a better career than Clarke. Or Clarke and everyone else that PIF claims he would’ve picked. But if not then be prepared to hear about it ad nauseum. Yet another reason to root for the guy we did pick. Earn us some ‘shut yo mouth’ points Rui. Lessgo!

Personally yeah I wanted a trade down. And Clarke was on my list of players who could be good. Worth a pick. But as a Wizards fan you either have to love griping and bitching. Or have a short memory or optimistic heart and move on quickly. Me I’m in the second category. Already have welcomed Hachimura into my heart with no bitterness over what could’ve been. I’m deciding he’s gonna be good. Until he proves otherwise or is traded to another team then in the sunny oasis of my fandom he shines bright and will always someday be a great player. Clarke? That’s a guy on another team. Who cares. I’ve moved on. Love the one you’re with.

Says the guy who still kicks rocks when he thinks about my guy Steph Curry. Wanted him since his freshman year.

But yes. Onward. Hachination. There’s good character guys on this squad. It will be fun seeing them work and learn. My expectations are low so for now I’m looking for development and scrappy play and maybe eventually we hire a front office team that changes the culture and builds a dynasty. Just I dunno. Maybe not this year. We will see.

I love Rui, Doc -- some impersonator (probably hired by you!) has smeared my reputation. Nor have I been driven over the edge; far from it -- there is no edge.

It's certainly possible (as I have written, that is my impersonator has) that Rui will have a better career than Clarke. The opposite is also possible. Plus, they may both be terrific -- or bums! I think I've made my position abundantly clear (insofar as mud may be clarified) that drafting well is about using picks well, acquiring picks intelligently, etc. It's not about "is Joe a good player?"

For example, last year I criticized Ernie for picking Troy where he did (& for about every aspect of his handling of such a great draft). But, during the year this year I was constantly calling for the kid to get playing time. I've said that he should have played 1500 minutes. & I've also praised his play (I guess that goes w/o saying -- otherwise why did I want him to play more?).

Ditto Rui. Did we get the most out of the draft that we could have. No. But that's not Rui Hachimura's fault! I want him to play 1500 minutes this year (on the assumption that he doesn't mess up miserably -- which I have no reason to think he will).

Above all, this is real: I don't ever root for some kid to fail, & I don't ever take any pleasure in someone's failure. I'm too old & have lived too variously for that. It's bad karma. Nor am I "griping and bitching."

I remember a week or so ago you were saying you'd pick Luka Samanic @ #9. Nothing the matter with him as a prospect. Lets say you were the Wiz GM & he was one of the guys you had high on your board; you could have picked him or -- lets suppose as a thought experiment -- you could have traded down to the Celtics for their #s 14 & 22 which would have gotten you Samanic & another outstanding prospect, Grant Williams.

Samanic is the same whichever way you go, but your draft is better (you are a better GM) if you trade down & also get Williams. Duh. Of course, you do take a risk that someone takes Samanic @, say #13. & that is why they say never to focus on a single player (as it seems -- they brag about it! -- Sheppard & his crew did). So, in that case, somebody drops obviously, & you get Herro (or Washington or maybe even Rui, or maybe Clarke) & Williams. Now... I suppose you could somehow get totally screwed; everyone on the tier w/ Samanic is gone. So you get Goga & Williams or Thybulle & Williams. But, come on... you're ready for whatever the choices are.

That's all. Meanwhile, welcome Rui.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1329 » by nate33 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:56 am

payitforward wrote:Next Saturday, 6/29, is the deadline to give Portis his qualifying offer; I assume we won't do it. Ditto Sam Dekker, whom you don't mention.

Oh, I think we'll extend a qualifying offer to Portis. It's only $3.6M. If he ends up playing for just $3.6M, I wouldn't complain.

What I don't think we will do is match a substantial offer for him. If someone comes along and offers the full MLE or more, we will let him go.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1330 » by payitforward » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:35 am

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Next Saturday, 6/29, is the deadline to give Portis his qualifying offer; I assume we won't do it. Ditto Sam Dekker, whom you don't mention.

Oh, I think we'll extend a qualifying offer to Portis. It's only $3.6M. If he ends up playing for just $3.6M, I wouldn't complain.

What I don't think we will do is match a substantial offer for him. If someone comes along and offers the full MLE or more, we will let him go.

You're right, nate -- that makes more sense.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1331 » by nuposse04 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:43 am

every team needs one goon on the team... about the only reason I can think of to retain Portis... I guess Ian and Howard could play that role but they don't nearly have the crazy Portis does.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1332 » by nuposse04 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:04 am

Looking PFs available specifically in the offseason, if we do let both Jabari and Portis walk (which might be ideal if they get cost prohibative...that and they aren't particularly good)

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/ufa/power-forward/

There are some interesting UFA on that list.

I'm not sure how much Noah Vonleh would cost but he played alright for the knicks last year.. I imagine they will try to retain him but still someone to watch for.

I wish we had the money for Julius Randle but he's gonna get paid by someone.

JaMhychal Green could be decent stop gap. Good defender, can space the floor. Would certainly better then what Kieff brought last year.

Not interested in Thad young or Gibson but i have an eerie vibe they may try to get a vet like em.

Maybe take a flyer on Bender? Not sure what happened to him in PHX but we don't suck as much as them at least. If he actually gets it, nice...if not... all the merrier for the tank

Richaun Holmes is also a UFA according to this list... I'd definitely go after him.

Rondae Hollis Jefferson is also an UFA... he could probably play 4... he was really bad last year but was ok the season before...maybe worth considering? His inability to hit the 3 ball really hurts tho. I remember the nets using him as a 5 at times.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1333 » by Mojo Amok » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:30 am

gambitx777 wrote:I think north of 4 for 40 mill would start giving the wizards cold feet. Anywhere north of ten mill a year and you start getting into albatross contract territory if he does not make marked improvements. Kind of like the plumlee or mahinmi contracts. But Bryant is young and skilled enough he should improve.
RodyTur10 wrote:Hello, I'm a Celtics fan (so we're basically already huge enemies), but my question comes down to how you can hate us even more.
We need a new center (Horford, Baynes gone), me I like Thomas Bryant.

How much do you guys think the Celtics would need to offer to Bryant such that the Wizards won't match?
(I know about the Arenas provision, potential backloaded contract)

I told you that it would be a suggestion to increase hate, but I am looking for a serious answer.
(it's not like discussing it has influence)


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The thing is that Arenas provision makes it so that it won't really be 'how much per year?', but rather 'how much per year in years 3 & 4?"

The Tyler Johnson contract is an example of that - cheap in years one & two @ under $6 million per annum before ballooning to a horrendous $19+ million in years three & four. This is like two years of drought and two flood years looking like average rainfall over the four year period - the average is fine, but it don't grow corn.

In this Celtics scenario, it would really have to do with the Wizards appetite for stomaching the backend of that deal and I frankly have no idea what the threshold is. Anything around $15+ million in the out years would be a disaster unless the cap spikes again, though.

The Celtics suddenly being devoid of pivots, having cap space and building around youth is of note, but there are a lot of other free agent centers on the market, so hopefully they and the other potential suitors go with the more established names (maybe Sacramento or Dallas?).
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1334 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:37 am

nuposse04 wrote:Looking PFs available specifically in the offseason, if we do let both Jabari and Portis walk (which might be ideal if they get cost prohibative...that and they aren't particularly good)

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/ufa/power-forward/

There are some interesting UFA on that list.

I'm not sure how much Noah Vonleh would cost but he played alright for the knicks last year.. I imagine they will try to retain him but still someone to watch for.

I wish we had the money for Julius Randle but he's gonna get paid by someone.

JaMhychal Green could be decent stop gap. Good defender, can space the floor. Would certainly better then what Kieff brought last year.

Not interested in Thad young or Gibson but i have an eerie vibe they may try to get a vet like em.

Maybe take a flyer on Bender? Not sure what happened to him in PHX but we don't suck as much as them at least. If he actually gets it, nice...if not... all the merrier for the tank

Richaun Holmes is also a UFA according to this list... I'd definitely go after him.

Rondae Hollis Jefferson is also an UFA... he could probably play 4... he was really bad last year but was ok the season before...maybe worth considering? His inability to hit the 3 ball really hurts tho. I remember the nets using him as a 5 at times.



Looney and Muscala are a couple UFA that could be of interest ...
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1335 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:41 am

Does Michael Kidd-Gilchrist interest anyone ??

We are in desperate need of help on defense.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1336 » by gambitx777 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:13 am

That's if he gets an offer like that, that's one type of contract someone can offer him but they don't have to offer him that. But generally you don't count on those contracts coming up till some one does something desperate. But you can count a poison pill into that, that would make more than 2 years over 10 mill, in my answer. A 10 mill cap hit for him is where I start to get a bit worried. So yeah a poison pill contract might do it.
Mojo Amok wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I think north of 4 for 40 mill would start giving the wizards cold feet. Anywhere north of ten mill a year and you start getting into albatross contract territory if he does not make marked improvements. Kind of like the plumlee or mahinmi contracts. But Bryant is young and skilled enough he should improve.
RodyTur10 wrote:Hello, I'm a Celtics fan (so we're basically already huge enemies), but my question comes down to how you can hate us even more.
We need a new center (Horford, Baynes gone), me I like Thomas Bryant.

How much do you guys think the Celtics would need to offer to Bryant such that the Wizards won't match?
(I know about the Arenas provision, potential backloaded contract)

I told you that it would be a suggestion to increase hate, but I am looking for a serious answer.
(it's not like discussing it has influence)


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app


The thing is that Arenas provision makes it so that it won't really be 'how much per year?', but rather 'how much per year in years 3 & 4?"

The Tyler Johnson contract is an example of that - cheap in years one & two @ under $6 million per annum before ballooning to a horrendous $19+ million in years three & four. This is like two years of drought and two flood years looking like average rainfall over the four year period - the average is fine, but it don't grow corn.

In this Celtics scenario, it would really have to do with the Wizards appetite for stomaching the backend of that deal and I frankly have no idea what the threshold is. Anything around $15+ million in the out years would be a disaster unless the cap spikes again, though.

The Celtics suddenly being devoid of pivots, having cap space and building around youth is of note, but there are a lot of other free agent centers on the market, so hopefully they and the other potential suitors go with the more established names (maybe Sacramento or Dallas?).


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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1337 » by doclinkin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:35 am

payitforward wrote:That's all.

Ok cool. So you promise you won’t [lanrbt] lament and bemoan that we could’ve had Clarke on these pages.

Because we really don’t need repetitive redundant repetion of the reprise of the refrain for paragraph after paragraph and page after page that we could have traded down, as though we didn’t get that and agree the first time. And the second time. And despite rephrasing. And general agreement. That it’s not a revolutionary thought. Yet again here comes another jeremiad on the topic. And oh how we will regret and so on and so on.

And then beating a joke into the ground and using the name of our new acquisition as the comical hammer to bludgeon that joke to death. And to scoff and sneer at posters who are momentarily enthusiastic at the addition of that player to our team. When as Wizards fans sometimes all we get is the promise of Hope in the off-season. Before reality of the regular season shows up with a punch to the nads of fandom.

Give it a rest. All agree. Trading down and landing two good players would be better. The team chose not to. Now I never want to hear about how good a player Brandon Clarke is or may be. And how you among all fans were right and all should have listened to you. We did. We heard you. Many have the same opinion. But it’s unpleasant to see the board drowned in a flood of that same opinion.

Did I say yet that it has become redundant? Or redundant? And also redundant?
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1338 » by payitforward » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:26 pm

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:That's all.

Ok cool. So you promise you won’t lanrbt and bemoan that we could’ve had Clarke on these pages. ...

I've looked at that misspelling -- "lanrbt" -- many times now, & I can't decode it. Please advise.

I've made my POV clear, & it had/has nothing to do with how good a player Rui is or can become nor - as I've also repeated many times - with Rui vs. Clarke. They're not joined at the hip! They're not light side/dark side of anything. I'm not a Manichean.

My POV has only to do with how best to use assets in the draft. But this year's draft is past us, so I can't see why it would come up until next year.

As to promises, doc, they are most useful when mutual. I've written positively many times about your posts, & when I have a difference with one of them I don't use the occasion to lambaste you personally. I don't accuse you of anything or create some kind of dismissive characterization of you (e.g. "bemoaning" really isn't my style).

So, if you want to agree, if you want to exchange promises about something, I imagine I'll hear from you in response to these words. Since friendship is more useful, satisfying & productive than enmity, I hope I do. If not, so be it.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1339 » by doclinkin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:23 pm

“Lament”. Lol. Thanks :) just being redundant.

And my only promise is to try to keep this board interesting. Sometimes that means having an enjoyable dust up with a friend.

:starwars

So long as you know I personally don’t take any of this personally.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#1340 » by nate33 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:25 pm

nuposse04 wrote:Looking PFs available specifically in the offseason, if we do let both Jabari and Portis walk (which might be ideal if they get cost prohibative...that and they aren't particularly good)

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/ufa/power-forward/

There are some interesting UFA on that list.

I'm not sure how much Noah Vonleh would cost but he played alright for the knicks last year.. I imagine they will try to retain him but still someone to watch for.

I wish we had the money for Julius Randle but he's gonna get paid by someone.

JaMhychal Green could be decent stop gap. Good defender, can space the floor. Would certainly better then what Kieff brought last year.

Not interested in Thad young or Gibson but i have an eerie vibe they may try to get a vet like em.

Maybe take a flyer on Bender? Not sure what happened to him in PHX but we don't suck as much as them at least. If he actually gets it, nice...if not... all the merrier for the tank

Richaun Holmes is also a UFA according to this list... I'd definitely go after him.

Rondae Hollis Jefferson is also an UFA... he could probably play 4... he was really bad last year but was ok the season before...maybe worth considering? His inability to hit the 3 ball really hurts tho. I remember the nets using him as a 5 at times.

Good list. I agree that Parker may become cost prohibitive, especially when his skill set overlaps significantly with Hachimura. The team should definitely identify alternatives.

Of that list, I really think Vonleh is the guy to target. He is a defense/rebounder grunt whose offense is gravy. We need a guy like that in the front court since Hachimura looks like he'll be a step behind on defense for a while as he develops, and Bryant is at best an average defender, not a mistake eraser. Vonleh has shown a lot of improvement as a pro, steadily increasing his assists, steals and blocks and 2P% over his first 4 years. His 3P% is in the 30-33% range which isn't quite good enough to be an effective spacer, but his shot doesn't look broken. Maybe he'll get better. He's a plus defender and has had a positive on/off differential in the past 2 seasons. ESPN's real plus-minus ranks him as the 11th best defensive PF among guys who play 20 or more minutes. That's real impressive for a 23 year old. Vonleh also has the size and length to shift over to C if necessary. The guy measured 6'-9.5" with a 7'-4" wingspan and a 9'-0" standing reach.

I don't think New York will retain him because they will either go all-in on max free agents this year, or they'll lock up Durant and sign 1-year contracts in order to go after a max free agent next year. Vonleh is therefore the most obtainable competent PF who is also still very young.

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